Author Topic: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!  (Read 51935 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #200 on: August 01, 2008, 03:07:25 pm »

But I have removed it now so you won't have to see it again.

Hi Mikaela,

I really appreciate your sensitivity to this. It's really very sweet of you.  But, you really don't need to change your post on my account. 

I'm sure all of use respond to parodies of BBM (then, now and in general) and to the whole Heath/ TDK situation very differently.  I just felt the urge earlier to explain how I feel about it.

Your point is well taken that the parodies do tend to prove how much BBM has become part of the cultural fabric in lots of ways.  They're usually things that I personally don't respond very well to though.


the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Mandy21

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #201 on: August 01, 2008, 10:33:20 pm »
Hi Mikaela, I'm glad that Amanda had the nerve to speak out about this.  I saw that poster this morning, and wanted to vomit.  You say you have removed it, but it's still there.  I really wish you could do something to make it go away please.

It's ridiculous to associate anything about the beauty of BBM that we all treasure, every glance and touch and look, and the beauty of the moment that became the BBM poster, with ANYTHING else, anything at all.

Regardless of the current success of TDK, I have a lot of trouble believing that thousands of people are still going to be discussing and debating it on a daily basis three years from now, like they still will be with BBM.

I'm going to have nightmares about that poster tonight.  I have to say it's the only blasphemous thing I've seen posted on this website in the 6 months I've been a member of the BetterMost community.  I'd be really, really happy never to see it again.  Thank you.
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Offline Shasta542

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #202 on: August 01, 2008, 11:03:34 pm »
Today I went to a matinee of "The Dark Knight".

Heath was amazing, as were all the major players. What a movie!!

I'm going to have to watch it again, and no doubt, buy the DVD when it's out.

For one thing -- I rarely get everything the first time! The other--at the end when Commissioner Gordon was talking to his son as Batman was riding away, the music was so LOUD that I hardly heard a word he said. I'm sure it was pretty important to the ending.

I loved it. So happy to see it on the big screen, too.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #203 on: August 02, 2008, 01:26:09 am »
So, instead of doing what I had planned on doing today, I ended up looking through some lengthy and seriously dedicated TDK fanpage.

It's a weird experience, watching a new fandom going gloriously full blast, in those early stages where everything is so overwhelming and everyone are having so much fun. Even though I haven't seen the film yet, I've been sitting there LOL'ing and grinning and just generally shaking my head. So much creativity... so much amazing fangirlishness/fanboyness - for the film and some of the actors - mainly Heath and CB, - so many wonderful swoony pictures, so much general craziness, so many funny fandom injokes, so much utter irreverence.... I won't even get into what they've dubbed Heath by now. But I can't help just laughing, and I think Heath would have done so, too.

And so many spoilers, by means of clips, mostly. Joker clips. I bet I must soon have seen the entire Joker part of the film, just from clips. I've certainly seen that whole pencil incident by now. And it's strange to see that Heath finally has made it with the fanboy crowd - noe they're posting all the images that have ever been seen over here at the HHH thread... and oooh'ing and aaaah'iing and swooning mightily.

But anyway, they're taking every possible pop culture reference and actor gossip tidbit and running with it, using all their photoshopping skills in the process, and it was when I saw this one that I knew I had to come back here and post.




Mikaela, I can't see the image.  Could you maybe post the link to the website?



Offline belbbmfan

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #204 on: August 02, 2008, 09:48:12 am »

Mikaela, I can't see the image.  Could you maybe post the link to the website?




Yes, since I'm going to be watching TDK next week, I want to prepare myself. I'd love to have the link too.

Elle, the website you posted detailling all the violent scenes (THAT many?  :o) was really helpful. Thanks!
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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #205 on: August 02, 2008, 12:02:11 pm »
Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Marge_Innavera

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #206 on: August 02, 2008, 03:51:19 pm »
Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO

I'm still going around and around with the moral ambiguities in this movie and the curious sympathy that the Joker inspires. Here's my take on it:

Everyone has a "shadow" side, and the urge to destroy, to tear down, to generate chaos and anarchy, is part of that. And that shadow side is essential.  After all, if there was no randomness in the universe, it isn't likely that any kind of free choice would exist and without any tendency toward tearing-down there could be no building-up. Nothing new could ever happen. (hope this is clear, I'm still trying to get it "jelled")

However, a challenge that all of us have is to keep our shadow side balanced with the side that wants to integrate, organize, build up and solve problems. People like the Joker live and act totally in terms of their shadow side; they don't seem to have any concept of balancing it with either a desire to do any positive creative work or to sustain human community.  And they're rare -- personally I've met one, maybe two in my lifetime and what they both had in common was that they were dazzlingly charming but had a certain coldness and an imaginary odor of brimstone about them.

Maybe one reason many of us feel a certain sadness for the Joker, other than his being Heath's last role, is a sense of the possibilities that will never be realized?  What might this guy have accomplished if he wasn't such a total sociopath?

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #207 on: August 02, 2008, 06:49:49 pm »
Since spoilers are allowed, I really liked the moral at the end of the movie, where by Batman had to be the fall guy so that the Joker could not tarnish the image of the DA, dashing peoples hopes. In a way it means the joker was suscessful in bringing down Batman (if but a peg) but it was the lesser of two evils. IMO

As far as I understand about Batman, he often is involved in ambiguous decision making.  I guess it's sort of a good thing that he wants to protect Harvey Dent's reputation as far as the general public goes... but at the same time, he's therefore consciously lying to the public or keeping the public from knowing the truth, which to me really isn't such a good thing.  So, Harvey Dent wasn't superhuman or the hero everyone was looking for.  To me, it would seem more important to have the public understand what really went on.

Also, the Joker definitely brought Batman down a peg or two... both with the Harvey Dent situation and the fact that Batman really did essentially allow the Joker to kill all those people systematiclly while he was trying to get Batman to reveal himself.  At least Batman didn't act to stop those killings. 



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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #208 on: August 03, 2008, 04:02:07 pm »
Cartoonist Who Created The Joker Discusses 'The Dark Knight'

By Dave Astor

Published: July 24, 2008 1:24 PM ET
NEW YORK

The actor who plays the Joker in a blockbuster 2008 movie is gone. The cartoonist who created the Joker in 1939 is still around.

He's Jerry Robinson, and he thinks the late Heath Ledger's acting turn in "The Dark Knight" is "a tour de force."

"A brilliant performance," said Robinson, 86, when E&P reached him by phone at the currently running Comic-Con in San Diego. "Very nuanced. The Joker is psychotic, but you believe in Heath's portrayal."

How does Ledger's portrayal of the supervillain compare with Jack Nicholson's hammy turn in the 1989 "Batman" film? "They're really different," replied Robinson, who has also had a long career in newspaper cartooning and syndication. "Nicholson made him kind of a mad terrorist. It wasn't exactly the most interesting view of him. It was more of a satirical, TV take on the Joker -- though it was a great performance."

Robinson said the way "The Dark Knight" and Ledger portray the Joker is closer to the way the character was conceived nearly 70 years ago. Back then, Robinson was a teenage Columbia University journalism student working on comic books with "Batman" co-creators Bob Kane and Bill Finger. (The name of Batman sidekick Robin was inspired by Robin Hood, not Jerry's last name.)

For "The Dark Knight," Robinson served as "creative consultant." He was on the set of the movie last fall in London, after filming moved from Chicago.

Robinson recalled that the scene in which the Joker threw the Rachel Dawes character (played by Maggie Gyllenhaal) out a window was first shot in Chicago and then finished in London -- where Batman (played by Christian Bale) saves Rachel before she hits the ground. Robinson joked that being thrown out of a window in America and landing in another continent is quite a feat.

The cartoonist also said the movie makeup of Aaron Eckhart (Harvey Dent/Two-Face) was digital, not actually applied to his face. "I spent a lot of time on the set with the makeup artist, and she didn't mention him," recalled Robinson. "Now I know why!"

Bale, recalled Robinson, "was an interesting guy" to talk with on the London set. "Very literate and articulate," said the cartoonist. (Bale has since landed in some hot water with this week's report of his arrest for allegedly assaulting his mother and sister; the actor denies the charges.)

Robinson didn't meet Ledger in London; the actor had finished his Joker scenes and flown back to the U.S. at that point. Ledger died this January in New York City of an apparent drug overdose.

"It's such a tragedy," said Robinson, who added that there had been plans for he and Ledger to get together in New York.

The cartoonist did see various "Dark Knight" actors at last week's New York premiere of the movie. They included Bale again, Gary Oldman (who played Lt. James Gordon in the film), and Michael Caine (Alfred Pennyworth). Robinson said Caine was so good in the role of the butler to Bruce Wayne -- aka Batman -- that he'd like to see the character focused on in another movie.

Robinson also ran into Danny DeVito, who played the Penguin earlier in the "Batman" movie series. The Penguin was a character Robinson also drew during his comic book days.

What did Robinson think of "The Dark Knight" in general? The cartoonist replied that he was very impressed with it, though he didn't find the film perfect. For one thing, said Robinson, it could've been tightened up in a way that would've made it about 15 minutes shorter.

And did Robinson expect the movie to pull in a record $158.4 million during its first weekend? "I knew it would be big, but didn't think it would be THAT big," commented the cartoonist, who said he's contractually not allowed to comment on how much he might or might not make with the movie. Like most cartoonists who worked decades ago, Robinson didn't have ownership rights to characters he created.

Robinson will be part of a Friday panel on "Batman" at the San Diego Comic-Con. This afternoon, he's also on a "Golden Age of Comics" panel, and Sunday he'll speak on yet another panel focusing on famed cartoonist Jack Kirby.

In addition, Robinson will present the Bill Finger Awards at the San Diego event, and do daily signing sessions at the DC Comics booth.

Speaking of DC Comics, Robinson is authoring an original graphic novel for that company starring the Joker. "It will be the first time in 60-some years I've personally created something with the Joker," he told E&P.

Robinson is also updating his 1970s history of newspaper comics for Dark Horse (possible release in fall 2009), and a biography of Robinson is being written for the Abrams publishing company (also for possible release sometime in 2009).

The cartoonist's newspaper connections are many. He's founder and president of the Cartoonists & Writers Syndicate/CartoonArts International -- now marketed by the New York Times Syndicate. He also did the syndicated "Life with Robinson" social/political satire feature, as well as the syndicated "still life" and "Flubs & Fluffs" offerings.

In addition, Robinson served as president of both the Association of American Editorial Cartoonists and the National Cartoonists Society, has authored many other books besides his comics history, and has curated many cartoon exhibits.

Before all that, how did Robinson come up with the Joker? He told E&P back in 1989: "I wanted to create a master criminal; a protaganist worthy of Batman. In my reading of literature, every great hero had his opposite -- David and Goliath, Sherlock Holmes and Moriarity.

"I had written a lot of humor at Columbia, and I loved stories with satire and a twist. So I thought it would be interesting to have a villain with a sense of humor. It would give him some contradiction, some depth; make him unusual."

Robinson then thought of the Joker name, and realized he could use the picture of a joker on a playing card as a model for the character's look. The cartoonist remembers "searching frantically that night for a deck of cards."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003831559

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #209 on: August 03, 2008, 04:06:59 pm »
Note - after reading this article, I looked up when Sid Vicious died.  2 months 2 days before Heath was born.

Heath Ledger's Joker inspired by Sid Vicious


Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker in the latest Batman film was inspired by Sid Vicious, according to his co-star Christian Bale.
 
By Laura Clout
Last Updated: 9:23AM BST 29 Jul 2008

Chistian Bale said: He [Ledger] modelled the part on Sid Vicious which made this punk-like character. I think it is a classic portrayal of a great villain.  Bale, who plays the protagonist in the hit movie, said Ledger, who died in January of an accidental drugs overdose, had watched video clips of the late Sex Pistols guitar player while researching the role.
The 34-year-old said: "Heath's created an anarchic Joker unlike any ever seen before.
"He modelled the part on Sid Vicious which made this punk-like character. I think it is a classic portrayal of a great villain."
The punk rocker, whose real name was John Simon Ritchie, died in New York 1979, also from a drugs overdose.
The troubled musician - renowned for his violent behaviour - was facing trial over the murder of his former girlfriend Nancy Spungen at the time of his death.
Ledger is being tipped to win an Oscar for his role in The Dark Knight.
Bale added: "Heath immersed himself in the role. I would love to see him get an award."
Before his death, Ledger said he also drew inspiration from A Clockwork Orange for the role.
"It's the most fun I've had with a character and probably will ever have…" he said.
The actor added: "It was an exhausting process. At the end of the day I couldn't move. I couldn't talk. I was absolutely wrecked."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2468004/Heath-Ledger's-Joker-inspired-by-Sid-Vicious.html