Author Topic: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)  (Read 19652 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2008, 09:08:20 am »
and they would have been released as quickly as an "ACLU" lawyer could arrive to claim that they are victims. As it is, they won't threaten anyone again. And that is the point, if the authorities and the legal system can't protect our homes, our families, our lives, then we must do so. The chaos that is engulfing many of the cities, simply can't continue, eventually people take charge of their own destinies, they don't just cower waiting for the cops to come by and maybe fix the problem temporarily, the problem eventually gets fixed by outraged people, like Mr Horn.

Bravo Mr. Horn! I hope that the prosecutor who attempted to prosecute Mr Horn is fired!

This is called vigilantism, and it's a prescription that will only make the situation worse, not fix it.

The answer is to fix the problems with the legal and law enforcement systems, not to turn every yahoo on the block into a gunslinger.

According to Horn, and this was borne out during grand jury testimony, during their carting away of the stolen merchandise, the perps were crossing over Horn's fence  and stepped onto Horn's property in order to get back to their getaway van, Horn shouted at them they saw him and charged him, he shot at them and missed, the perps then ran from him and he shot them dead thru their backs.

There's the situation in a nutshell. He shot at them and missed, they ran--and then he shot them dead through their backs as they were running away from him.

This is outrageous. It has nothing to do with a citizen's right to protect his life, his family, and his property. Horn should have stopped shooting when they turned and ran. He should not have shot again, and getting carried away by the situation is no excuse.

He should have been indicted for manslaughter. Let him be acquited at trial by a jury of his peers, if they agree that the situation in Pasadena, Texas, is so bad that his actions were warranted--that's fine, I have no problem with that, that's the American way.

But for society to tacitly approve his actions by not even calling him to give an account of himself, after he killed two people, is outrageous.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2008, 09:25:36 am »
Isn't   vigilantism    needed at times to defend yourself ?

As self-defence ?


Offline Artiste

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2008, 09:27:08 am »
They were two burglars ! Why two, one was enough !! ??

They would have murdered the decent honest citizens !

Are burglars honest ?

Offline Artiste

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 09:32:09 am »
Why give in to burglars and murderers ?

Burglars steal not only your lifetime of savings, but also your life in many ways, and they remain alive while you are dead !

Why should Sal Mineo be dead, and his murderer who was stealing him be alive to-day and free ?

Sal can not talk nor do movies as he pleases now being dead, but that burglar bastard does what he wants still to-day in society since he is out of prison !

I can not talk nor see Sal anymore, but his murderer can talk and see and do what he wants !! Isn't that unfair ?

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2008, 12:50:08 pm »
This is called vigilantism

I believe what Mr. Horn did is called exercising his rights to protect himself and his property under current TX law. If you do not approve of the Castle Doctrine, then work to prevent its consideration or passage within your own home state, however here in TX the law is popular and probably will stand any further challenges.

And I would add that if law enforcement, border control, and the legal system in general were working as originally intended, then there would be no need for citizens like Mr. Horn to shoot those who are plaguing his neighborhood, and then use the doctrine as justification.

And if you wish to fight against "vigilantism", perhaps you might want to start with the vigilante drug dealers and their foot soldiers in our major cities dispensing their own swift justice against their business competitors. Those actions are usually called "drive by's"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2008, 01:46:03 pm »
I believe what Mr. Horn did is called exercising his rights to protect himself and his property under current TX law. If you do not approve of the Castle Doctrine, then work to prevent its consideration or passage within your own home state, however here in TX the law is popular and probably will stand any further challenges.

And I call what Mr. Horn did, shooting two people in the back as they were running away from him, manslaughter. I don't dispute his right to protect himself, his family, or his property. But shooting two people in the back as they flee from you is not protecting anything. It's homicide. If this is what Texans, or a Texas grand jury, considers justice, I'm glad I live in Pennsylvania. The "protecting" ended when they started to run after his first shot.

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And I would add that if law enforcement, border control, and the legal system in general were working as originally intended, then there would be no need for citizens like Mr. Horn to shoot those who are plaguing his neighborhood, and then use the doctrine as justification.

You'll get no argument from me about that.

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And if you wish to fight against "vigilantism", perhaps you might want to start with the vigilante drug dealers and their foot soldiers in our major cities dispensing their own swift justice against their business competitors. Those actions are usually called "drive by's"

And this example of criminal activity has exactly what to do with the Horn case? Drug dealers shooting each other are not vigilantes. They are criminals shooting other criminals. Unfortunately they sometimes miss and hit innocent bystanders.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2008, 02:02:37 pm »
And I call what Mr. Horn did, shooting two people in the back as they were running away from him, manslaughter.


We are obviously going to disagree on Mr Horn's actions. I have to put myself in his place, after they charged him and they started running away after he shot and missed, what was to stop them from going to their van getting a gun and returning to Mr Horn's house, breaking in then or later and killing him? Horn used reasonable force against criminals who should not have been in this country in the first place.

My reference to the drive by shootings among drug dealer entrepreneurs is just to illustrate that "vigilantism" is in the eye of the beholder, the drug dealers just might consider themselves heroic vigilantes defending their turf against business rivals. I see that type of "vigilantism" as one of the problems that has turned cities into smarm pits, and lead to laws such as the Castle Doctine and people like Horn shooting down criminals as they are fleeing him.

But, then the "well meaning" left never seems to fathom the consequences of their criminal coddling programs. Early release from prison anyone? Why then would it surprise me that there is shock over Mr Horn defending his neighborhood, but lots of yawns when an explanation is given as to the reasons why such laws as the Castle Doctrine are passed?

Offline Shasta542

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2008, 02:12:24 pm »
To paraphrase a couple of lines from "The Untouchables".

I do not approve of your methods!
Yeah, well... You're not from Texas.


Texas is a whole different world from a lot of the nation.

From comic Ron White:

In Texas we have the death penalty, and WE USE IT!
Other state's are trying to abolish the death penalty... mine's putting in an express lane.
If you come to Texas and kill someone, we'll kill you back!


I don't know what the crime rate is in Texas, but if you're a criminal, I think it'd be better to be a criminal somewhere else.

"Gettin' tired of your dumbass missin'!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Offline Artiste

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2008, 02:35:34 pm »
Canada, England, France, others, including all of the USA, need such express lanes to be done now since murderers murder usually more than once, and many get away with it !

When they murdered a second time, then why now have a quick army juror, and shot immediately afterwards those bastards who are too lazy to get along in humanity !

I think that others states and countries should be like Texas and make those express lines soonest !!


What do you think ?

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Grand Jury Declines to Charge Horn (Houston Break in Case)
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2008, 03:27:52 pm »
We are obviously going to disagree on Mr Horn's actions. I have to put myself in his place, after they charged him and they started running away after he shot and missed, what was to stop them from going to their van getting a gun and returning to Mr Horn's house, breaking in then or later and killing him? Horn used reasonable force against criminals who should not have been in this country in the first place.

Only beyond a point--and that point is when they turned their backs and started running. If he'd blown their freakin' heads off with his first shot, I would have had no problem with that. My problem with Mr. Horn is that, as I see it, he didn't know when to quit. You don't go after people because they might come back after you. You wait until they come back after you. Then you take care of them.

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My reference to the drive by shootings among drug dealer entrepreneurs is just to illustrate that "vigilantism" is in the eye of the beholder, the drug dealers just might consider themselves heroic vigilantes defending their turf against business rivals. I see that type of "vigilantism" as one of the problems that has turned cities into smarm pits, and lead to laws such as the Castle Doctine and people like Horn shooting down criminals as they are fleeing him.

Well, who gives two shakes how criminals justify themselves to themselves? The only thing that bothers me about criminals shooting at each other is when they miss and hit bystanders.

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But, then the "well meaning" left never seems to fathom the consequences of their criminal coddling programs. Early release from prison anyone? Why then would it surprise me that there is shock over Mr Horn defending his neighborhood, but lots of yawns when an explanation is given as to the reasons why such laws as the Castle Doctrine are passed?

That has nothing to do with the Horn case, either. I'm not shocked at Mr. Horn defending his neighborhood, either. I'm just shocked by the hooligans who find it acceptable to shoot people in the back and kill them after you've already succeeded in scaring them off.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.