Author Topic: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?  (Read 17006 times)

retropian

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I haven't watched the Oscars since, well you know. So if Heath is nominated for his turn as The Joker in The Dark Knight would I watch? Would you? If he actually won for Best Supporting Actor, would that redeem the Academy? I don't know. ??? What do you think? I believe he has a decent chance at being nominated and winning.

Offline Shasta542

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2008, 10:03:26 am »
I haven't watched the Oscars since, well you know. So if Heath is nominated for his turn as The Joker in The Dark Knight would I watch? Would you? If he actually won for Best Supporting Actor, would that redeem the Academy? I don't know. ??? What do you think? I believe he has a decent chance at being nominated and winning.

You might watch.
I would watch.
NO, IMO it would not redeem them -- he should have gotten it for Ennis.
I still want him to get it for the Joker, and if his performance is all that's been said it is -- he will deserve it because I doubt anyone else will come close to his talent.
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2008, 10:54:35 am »
If he actually won for Best Supporting Actor, would that redeem the Academy?


No. Too late.
Heath should have gotten it for Ennis and BBM should have gotten the Best Picture award period.

Offline mariez

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 11:23:51 am »

No. Too late.
Heath should have gotten it for Ennis and BBM should have gotten the Best Picture award period.

My sentiments exactly.

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Offline brokeplex

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2008, 11:29:24 am »
the academy's blunders go way back : the wonder if anyone gives any serious attention to the awards -

 "Citizen Kane" didn't win best picture !

"Double Indemnity" didn't win best picture!

"2001: A Space Odyssey" didn't win best picture!


and then the clunkers that won :

Liz Taylor for her execrable performance in "Butterfield 8" - oh come on!

"Gladiator" deserved to win any awards at all ?

"Going My Way" deserved an award?

So, its all inside Hollywood politics and marketing, somebody from Focus Features didn't grease the right palm and so they ignored BM for best pic and Heath Ledger's performance.

Maybe posthumously he will win an award for supporting player, posthumous Oscars have been handed out at least once before.

Offline optom3

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2008, 11:45:22 am »
Too little too late. I will never watch the Oscars again having realised that you can vote on a film you haven't even watched.  Can they predict this weeks lottery numbers as well ??
Heath and BBM should have received the rewards they deserved at the time.From what I am reading TDK in itself is not an amazing film, it is Heath who is jaw droppingly good.
Both BBM and Heath were good.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2008, 12:46:14 pm »
I will never watch the Oscars again having realised that you can vote on a film you haven't even watched

that is a good point, wasn't it Tony Curtis who boasted that he did not watch BM before his vote? I was disappointed in him for saying that, Curtis is very good in "The Sweet Smell of Success", but I can't quite look at him the same way now.

Offline BlissC

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2008, 01:39:48 pm »
Too little too late.

That about sums it up perfectly.


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Offline Mikaela

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2008, 03:08:38 pm »

No. Too late.
Heath should have gotten it for Ennis and BBM should have gotten the Best Picture award period.

These are my exact sentiments, surely.

I think it would not redeem the Academy, on the contrary it would solidify my opinion of them.

Not rewarding Heath's beautiful Ennis, a veritable acting miracle, a whole human life presented over two hours - and then rewarding this?!? I shudder at the very thought. But money talks, so one never knows.

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2008, 03:50:13 pm »

No. Too late.
Heath should have gotten it for Ennis and BBM should have gotten the Best Picture award period.

Agreed!

These are my exact sentiments, surely.

I think it would not redeem the Academy, on the contrary it would solidify my opinion of them.

Not rewarding Heath's beautiful Ennis, a veritable acting miracle, a whole human life presented over two hours - and then rewarding this?!? I shudder at the very thought. But money talks, so one never knows.

That's beautiful Mikaela.  :)
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Marge_Innavera

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 04:06:16 pm »
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that would redeem the Academy would be a special feature on some Oscar night about overlooked films -- including an acknowledgement that Brokeback had been a casualty of homophobia in general and the questionable ethics of some AMPAS members in particular. And I'm reasonably sure that won't happen in this millenium.

However, if Heath is nominated for an Oscar for TDK, I won't be able to resist watching. And while I feel he should have won an Oscar two years ago for Ennis, I don't think that winning it for the Joker would be a lesser honor. Acting is acting. The injustice would be that this would be his first and last Oscar, and it should be his second.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2008, 06:03:48 pm »
However, if Heath is nominated for an Oscar for TDK, I won't be able to resist watching. And while I feel he should have won an Oscar two years ago for Ennis, I don't think that winning it for the Joker would be a lesser honor. Acting is acting. The injustice would be that this would be his first and last Oscar, and it should be his second.

I won't waste my time watching. While I agree that winning for the Joker would not be a lesser honor, on the other hand, to be perfectly honest, my suspicious mind would--or will--never be able to escape the, well, suspicion that the very fact that Heath is dead influenced some voters, so the win would--or will--for me be, in some sense, tainted a bit.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline optom3

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2008, 07:56:18 pm »
I won't waste my time watching. While I agree that winning for the Joker would not be a lesser honor, on the other hand, to be perfectly honest, my suspicious mind would--or will--never be able to escape the, well, suspicion that the very fact that Heath is dead influenced some voters, so the win would--or will--for me be, in some sense, tainted a bit.

That is exactly how I feel. There would always be some small space in my head thinking it was a pity vote.Or sh-t we messed up last time, better get it right this time chaps.
The sad thing is that both Heaths acting and BBM will be discussed for ever down the line.
I think with TDK it will only be Heaths performance as the joker which is referred to.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2008, 08:23:24 pm »
I think Heath should have won for Ennis and BBM should have won for film.  But I'm going to keep watching the Oscars for the same reason I always have - it's fun.  Doesn't punish them if I don't watch them, I just miss out.

Someone who worked on one of his last movies with Heath said that when he wasn't on set, some of the time he was in his trailer watching films he would be asked to vote on as an Academy member.  I felt so good reading that - that Heath took his responsibility as a new voting member of AMPAS seriously.

Offline fernly

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 09:46:03 pm »
I'm not ever going to watch the Oscars again just for enjoyment. The multiple travesties of that year's voting ended it for me.
That said, if Heath is nominated, I'll watch for that part of the ceremony, and hope he wins.
Same as I'll watch if when the other leads in Brokeback are nominated for future roles.
But will a win for Heath redeem the Oscars, nope. Never.
Like others have said, only an apology and an acknowledgement of what really happened would make even a start at redeeming the Oscars...
and I'm not waiting on any pigs to start flying...or snowballs staying frozen in hell.
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Offline fernly

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2008, 10:28:31 pm »
Does anybody remember what Dustin Hoffman said? I think he came on stage at some point after (all or some of) the acting awards were announced, and looked down at Heath, Jake, and Michelle, and said something like, "Don't be sad...you're young...there'll be other chances..."
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2008, 10:52:49 pm »
That is exactly how I feel. There would always be some small space in my head thinking it was a pity vote.Or sh-t we messed up last time, better get it right this time chaps.
The sad thing is that both Heaths acting and BBM will be discussed for ever down the line.
I think with TDK it will only be Heaths performance as the joker which is referred to.

We all felt very cheated and disappointed that night. It was very disillusioning. And I'm sure it was a real kick in the ass for the cast and crew. >:( :(

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Offline ednbarby

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2008, 10:55:43 pm »
Does anybody remember what Dustin Hoffman said? I think he came on stage at some point after (all or some of) the acting awards were announced, and looked down at Heath, Jake, and Michelle, and said something like, "Don't be sad...you're young...there'll be other chances..."

I don't remember him saying anything like that.  I do remember him saying something that was reverent of Heath's work in the movie.  I wish I could remember what it was, exactly, but my mind fails me at the moment.  I do remember gaining a lot of respect for him for saying and doing what he did.  It was more like a subtle, yet obvious, nod to Heath than saying "Buck up, Bucko."

I agree totally with your post before this one, by the way.  I think giving him a posthumous Oscar is the least they could do.  And I do mean the least.  I can't decide whether I'd be more pissed if they just ignored the performance altogether or if they rewarded it out of, well, satisfying The Bottom Line.

Here's my bet, and I'm taking it to the bank:  He'll get a posthumous nomination.  But he will not win.

And I will not be watching, in any event.
No more beans!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2008, 11:01:12 pm »

No. Too late.
Heath should have gotten it for Ennis and BBM should have gotten the Best Picture award period.

AMEN!!! My Sister!

I haven't seen the movie yet but have no doubt his preformance was oscar worthy!
However, if he wins it won't redeem the Oscars in my mind. The had the chance to do the right thing while he was alive and they blew it.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2008, 11:10:29 pm »
Does anybody remember what Dustin Hoffman said? I think he came on stage at some point after (all or some of) the acting awards were announced, and looked down at Heath, Jake, and Michelle, and said something like, "Don't be sad...you're young...there'll be other chances..."


Yes, I remember this.  I don't remember the words he used, but that was the gist.  It was lovely, because he didn't say it to just anybody - he said it to the people he thought ought to have won, and he said it on an enormous telecast, from the heart. 

If only he had been right about there being enough time...

Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2008, 04:10:30 am »
Haven't read everybody's comments here yet, but my .02 cents FWTW..

They should have given it to him 3 years ago when he deserved it.  The Academy blew it and there's no redemption for them!  It exposed them (The Oscars) for what they really are...  Funny how the ratings keep goin' lower and lower each year.   :laugh:  Nobody cares anymore.  :laugh:

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2008, 04:25:03 am »
Does anybody remember what Dustin Hoffman said? I think he came on stage at some point after (all or some of) the acting awards were announced, and looked down at Heath, Jake, and Michelle, and said something like, "Don't be sad...you're young...there'll be other chances..."

Yes, I remember this.  I don't remember the words he used, but that was the gist.  It was lovely, because he didn't say it to just anybody - he said it to the people he thought ought to have won, and he said it on an enormous telecast, from the heart. 

If only he had been right about there being enough time...


This is news to me, I've never heard about it yet. I've always liked Dustin Hoffman very much, but he just went up a notch or two in my appreciation :).

Like Elle, I think if only....

Offline Mikaela

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2008, 06:08:14 am »
Here's my bet, and I'm taking it to the bank:  He'll get a posthumous nomination.  But he will not win.

And I will not be watching, in any event.

If it were closer to the time for nominations, I would completely agree with your bet. But nominations being half a year away...? Half a year is a long time in this industry... so I'm not sure that the Joker performance won't just be "taken for granted" by then,  hence the immediacy of the impact of the performance's quality may have paled and lost its punch already - once the media and industry fuss long since has moved on to something entirely else. So I don't feel sure about the nomination. Based on that time factor, the general bias against this kind of movie, and the fact that the actor has passed away, I rather think they will end up not nominating in this instance - the better to be able to give nomination pats on the back to people they owe one and who are around to "collect the debt" or to repay the favour later with interest.  ::)

There was a lengthy article about the Oscar chances in USAToday 2 days ago, - putting it into perspective.

Link is here; "Dark Joker looks to be an Oscar Wild card": http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-07-17-ledger-oscar_N.htm


How fast everyone forgets? Well, here's an example. Towards the end the above article it now says: "Nolan, too, says he had no reservations about Ledger, whom he hired after seeing the actor's disparate work in Brokeback Mountain (Ledger was nominated for best actor), Monster's Ball and Lords of Dogtown."   But when it was first published and I first read it, the article said that Heath had earned a supporting actor nom for BBM.   ::)

(Some Heathen must subsequently have notified them of the slip.... )

retropian

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2008, 04:15:35 pm »
Well, I saw TDK yesterday (Monday) at the noon showing at my local theater. Great time to go, the place was 3/4's empty so I got exactly the seat I wanted, and no one sitting next to me, Delightful. Any way, Heath more that deserves a nomination. Rarely can it be said "the hype is true", but he exceeds every imagined expectation.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2008, 04:55:56 pm »
Haven't read everybody's comments here yet, but my .02 cents FWTW..

They should have given it to him 3 years ago when he deserved it.  The Academy blew it and there's no redemption for them!  It exposed them (The Oscars) for what they really are...  Funny how the ratings keep goin' lower and lower each year.   :laugh:  Nobody cares anymore.  :laugh:

I agree with this pov completely. The AA have, actually, a pretty long list of abuses when it comes to making the wrong choices for its so-called winners. Does anyone even mention the film Capote or Phillip S Hoffman anymore? Or Crash? They were less than flashes in the pan and will remain the undeserved spoilers for BBM's best film and best actor awards.

History cannot be changed or made right by scrambling to offer compensation later on. You can't unring a bell. Ledger's Dark Knight performance should stand on its own merits, as his role in BBM should have.

Many people are still in a rightful snit over the 2005 awards and I am among them. The academy has turned out to be no different than congress; a bunch of self engrandized losers with idiots at the helm who can be bought.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2008, 12:12:37 pm »
I remember what Dustin Hoffman did, now.  He came out and said something about how the awards should not be about politics and box office proceeds, but about the best performances.  And then he *bowed* to Heath and mouthed "Mr. Ledger."  I guess there was something else about being young and there still being time, but I was so blown away by Dustin Hoffman bowing to Heath Ledger, that the rest of it is just a blur.

I still hold that Heath will absolutely be nominated, and could, in fact, quite possibly win.  The Academy is desperate to resurrect their rapidly sinking ratings.  So desperate that they will cater to the idiot masses (yet again) by honoring the very person they shamelessly punished just three years ago for daring to fuck with their precious cowboy icon.

They are not looking for redemption.  They are looking to bale out their sinking ship.  They wouldn't know a truly great performance if it bit them on their wrinkled, old asses.  Look at what they honored last year.  Daniel Day-Lewis, screaming and sputtering and spitting through yet another over-the-top performance.  (Yes, I love him as a person for what he did at the SAG Awards, but I'm sorry - I think he is quite possibly the most over-rated actor ever.)  And Javier Bardem giving a completely one-note performance as a pitiless sociopath.  Please.  I could do that in my sleep.  They got it right with the actresses for once.  But most of the same idiots they'll be catering to next time around don't even know who the fuck they are.

Mark my words.  They will use him.  And they won't lose a second of sleep about it.
No more beans!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2008, 09:18:06 am »
Quote
giving a completely one-note performance as a pitiless sociopath.  Please.  I could do that in my sleep.
Remind me not to piss you off!!  ;D

I agree with everything you said.

Quote
They will use him.  And they won't lose a second of sleep about it.
It's so sad they see people as commodities to be bought and sold used and thrown away.
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retropian

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2008, 09:55:32 am »
The Academy is desperate to resurrect their rapidly sinking ratings.  So desperate that they will cater to the idiot masses (yet again) by honoring the very person they shamelessly punished just three years ago for daring to fuck with their precious cowboy icon.

They are not looking for redemption.  They are looking to bale out their sinking ship.  They wouldn't know a truly great performance if it bit them on their wrinkled, old asses.

Mark my words.  They will use him.  And they won't lose a second of sleep about it.

Yes, excellent points and I agree with most of them. I think redeeming themselves is pretty much the same as baling out their sinking ship. I think they do know a truly great performance. They know Heaths portrayal of Ennis is one of the all time great acting feats in cinema history and they know they really blew it by not awarding him. (although I like P.S.H. neither he nor Capote was in the same league and Heath and BBM)
The Academy will try to redeem themselves by awarding Heath, or rather his memory in an attempt to compensate for robbing him and BBM 3 years ago and in an attempt to shore up their sagging ratings and reputation. But having said that, Heath turn as The Joker is beyond incredible. Another astounding acting performance that stands on its own and alive or not, he should get a nomination.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2008, 09:58:20 am »


I think it would not redeem the Academy, on the contrary it would solidify my opinion of them.

Not rewarding Heath's beautiful Ennis, a veritable acting miracle, a whole human life presented over two hours - and then rewarding this?!? I shudder at the very thought. But money talks, so one never knows.

I'd just like to chime in and highlight this sentiment again.  This is very close to how I feel about the situation too Mikaela.

I really, really enjoyed TDK and have now seen it twice.  Heath was absolutely brilliant at re-interpreting the Joker, but the role itself was nothing in comparison to Ennis IMHO.  Ennis remains Heath's real masterpiece and it's clear it took huge amounts of impressively/ unusually strong acting talent to bring Ennis to life the way Heath did.  Ennis just seems like so much more of an important character than the Joker (who, afterall is sort of a pop icon character who has been tackled many times by other actors, illustrators and writers... while Ennis has so much more gravitas and Heath was inventing this interpretation of Ennis from scratch.).

The travesty of the Oscars is that it snubbed BBM in general.  To me that's the main issue... BBM as a whole.  

The Academy has messed up so many times in the past with so many great films going deep into its history (Citizen Kane being the main and most glaring historical error/ snub that can be cited easily), that the BBM debacle was sort of the last straw for me in terms of the Academy's credibility.   I see the Oscars, more than ever, as a political thing now.

To me, the urge to even hope a film/ actor will win an Oscar almost seems beside the point now when it comes to the concept of awarding a film/ acting job based on quality.

I'm sure I will watch the Oscars in the future simply for the spectacle... to watch the clothes, etc., but I don't take them all that seriously anymore.

Even several years out now, I'm still very bitter about the BBM snub.


It also makes me so, so sad to think that the Joker may come to overshadow Ennis in the way that the general public will remember and think of Heath.  Based on the number of people going to see TDK, it seems like that may come to be the case for the mass public... and might be even more the case if he were to win a posthumous Oscar.
:(



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Offline loneleeb3

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2008, 10:03:17 am »
Quote
Heath was absolutely brilliant at re-interpreting the Joker, but the role itself was nothing in comparison to Ennis IMHO.  Ennis remains Heath's real masterpiece and it's clear it took huge amounts of impressively/ unusually strong acting talent to bring Ennis to life the way Heath did.  Ennis just seems like so much more of an important character than the Joker (who, afterall is sort of a pop icon character who has been tackled many times by other actors, illustrators and writers... while Ennis has so much more gravitas and Heath was inventing this interpretation of Ennis from scratch.).
Friend, that says it all beautifully!
Great points! Ths is the heart and the truth of the matter.
I can safely say the Joker has never changed anyones life.
Ennis changed mine and so many others.
Were it not for Heaths Ennis, I don't know where I'd be.
This old road I'm on is rough and Rutted but I wouldn't have it anyother way.
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Offline optom3

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2008, 11:03:34 pm »
Remind me not to piss you off!!  ;D

I agree with everything you said.
It's so sad they see people as commodities to be bought and sold used and thrown away.

Heath once spoke of feeling like a commodity, eg a bottle of coke, being branded etc for mass consumption,despite the fact it was disgusting.It was the main reason he deliberately moved away from the Hollywood pretty boy roles and started after AKT to look for considerably more demanding and less obvious roles.
He could have taken the easy route with his looks, but chose diversification instead. I really hope at that level he does not get nominated for an Oscar. It would be the final insult and betrayal, for him to be treated as a commodity, after his demise, when it was his desire to escape as far as possible from that, which led to his greates role as Ennis.Which the Academy were to cowardly to recognise.
Personally, I hope they all choke on their collective bile !!
Bitter me? No whatever gave you that idea?

Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2008, 01:02:20 am »
No. Too late.
Heath should have gotten it for Ennis and BBM should have gotten the Best Picture award period.

Thats a fact Chrissy!  Heath showed tremendous star quality as did Michele and Jake..   Movie stars and movie to transcend time.  Yes BBM should have won Best Picture.  I understand the homophobes of the academy would not even watch it before voting.   

The academy awards dont mean squat to me.  I just like watching whose wearing what, the gowns, the men and women who escort each other to such an event.  Even thats lost its appeal to me ever since they snubbed BBM. 
"...While I agree that winning for the Joker would not be a lesser honor, on the other hand, to be perfectly honest, my suspicious mind would--or will--never be able to escape the, well, suspicion that the very fact that Heath is dead influenced some voters, so the win would--or will--for me be, in some sense, tainted a bit.

Having just got back from seeing TDK tonight and loving it,  I was curious what my fellow Brokies thought of Heath's performance as the Joker.  I popped into this thread and read it all.  Heath was Execellent.  Certainly worthy of an Oscar.  If anything we can be sure of the Academy and any reasonable person can realize the awesome power of creativity that is Heath Ledger.  If Heath gets nominated I will be watching. You bet




Offline Gabreya

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2008, 02:11:54 am »
I've seen TDK once and...before I go on to say, my mother was the one to convince me to go see it for Heath's sake. She said that he would WANT me to see it. And I did and I really enjoyed it. He did a great job as the Joker. But, Oscar-worthy for it? Hell no. That's just ridiculous. It's ridiculous from the start that they would want to give Heath an Oscar for that role when he should've won for Ennis Del Mar from BBM. I mean, he's a very talented actor BUT an Oscar nomination for the Joker? You got to be kidding me. :-\ There are like a couple of things wrong with this kind of situation.
First off, Heath's portrayal as the introverted cowboy Ennis Del Mar was that once in a lifetime role that moved so many's people's souls. He proved that he was an excellent actor. He had talent. He made us cry in that role and see what humanity really is on the flip side. It's not fair that he didn't get the Oscar for his role of a lifetime when he was alive and then, 'supposedly' that he's going to be nominated for the role that practically HURT his mind. I'm sorry, it makes me upset everytime I think about it. The Academy are too damn relentless and unpredictable when it comes to movies that talk about love in difficult times. They were OBVIOUSLY trying to avoid the truth:"Brokeback Mountain" was easily the best movie of 2005 and that it deserved every single award that it was nominated for. But, unfortunately, that really didn't happen. They only won three. THREE! And neither was from any of the acting categories. Of course, this movie wasn't the only one to be overlooked. There were lots of others. And some of them dealt with racism, homophobia, differences, and nature. Boy, talk about homophobia and prejiduce Academy.

Then, the Academy Awards HARDLY nominate anything dealing with COMIC BOOK/SUPERHERO MOVIES. I mean, there were a few of them in the past like "Superman", "Spider-Man", and even "Batman Begins". And usually, those movies get nominated in the Visual Effects, Art Direction, and/or Cinematagrophy catagories. And there are like a handful of superhero movies in the past that should've been nominated in not just those kinds of categories but also the acting ones. Actors like a Patrick Stewart, Ian Mckellen, Tobey Maguire, Gerard Butler, and a couple of others have all should've been nominated for their work in those movies because they were great. They were OVERLOOKED. You know what else? The movie industry right now has this ongoing trend where comic book/supehero movies have been on the range and that nearly everyone is taking part in them like Oscar winners and nominees, A-Listers, B-Listers, and newcommers who're presummed huge fans of the comics they're portraying. I heard that those kinds of movies are like the second biggest selling movies in Hollywood.(I should know because superhero movies are practically one my most favorite kinds of movies.)And it's been that way for like 20 to 30 years. And the movie business is doing good because part of the great acheivement from them. But, the Academy Awards just NOT recognizing them and rewarding them for what they are, their(Oscars) reputation is only getting worse in some ways. Otherwise, how come this year sucked real bad? Tehy didn't nominate any movies that seemed really fun. I heard one news guy said they should've nominated movies like "300" and "Sin City" to bring in the appeal. They seemed to always misplace them all because they think it's for 'mindless comicbook geeks'. Well, that's their problem. Now, with TDK, there could be a 50/50 chance that they would get nominated but for Heath in the Best Supporting Actor which I heard someone say? That's bullshit. He's a better actor than that! If he would've been alive, we and everyone else wouldn't even be having this conversation. They probably wouldn't have said that he deserves an Oscar. Never. The real reason is that that they did all because of his death and that it's out guilt. By the way, the Joker was waaaayyyyyyy too overhyped and overrated due to the crazed fanboys and mostly fans of the movie. Don't get me wrong. He was wonderful but way to WOOOEDDDDD by audiences.

They won't redeem themselves for doing something that they should've done a long time ago. The Oscars ought to be ashamed of themselves. They messed up countless times but with BBM and now supposedly this, the Academy Awards are practically a BIG JOKE! And it's catching up to them. I think that's the obvious view in the Joker's eyes. :laugh: But, on the serious note, the idea of "The Dark Knight" or Heath being nominated may be a little silm. There are lots of other films that are coming out this year and next year that may be qualified to be up for nominations. But, if he's nominated? Cool. But, it seems unlikely. Plus, they are a number of people that HATE the Academy Awards anyway. I mean, how many times have you heard someone say,"F@#$ the Oscars!"?

Offline Fran

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2008, 08:31:54 am »

If Heath gets nominated I will be watching. You bet

And so will I.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2008, 09:45:48 am »

I loved Heath's portrayal of the Joker (as I've said many times here and there on BetterMost) and I really like the movie... I think it's interesting and discussion-worthy on many levels.

But as far as the Academy redeeming itself for its own sake with a possible nomination for the Joker...  My feeling about that is that it would be a much, much safer film/ role for the Academy to nominate than Ennis was. 

Nominating and awarding BBM was much more of a bold move and position of advocacy for a film dealing with still socially controversial topics and a film that as a work of art is probably quite difficult for many folks out there.  If the Academy had rewarded BBM more fully, that would have been a true statement of advocacy for everything we realize that BBM is about, and it would have been a risky and courageous thing to do.

Rewarding a tremendously popular/lucrative movie... and a historically popular character, the Joker (and the Joker's long legacy in pop culture) would not be the same kind of radical and historically interesting gesture as rewarding Heath for the Ennis role would have been.  And, as some have suggested here... it would be tremendously sad if the Academy ends up "using" Heath's passing as a way to garner sympathy for itself.

That all said, again, I really loved Heath's performance as the Joker. 

Whether or not he wins a posthumous Oscar for this wonderful role, it does not redeem the Academy for it's tremendous goof regarding BBM.

And, there's just something so incredibly sad about the notion of a posthumous Oscar to me. When Heath is no longer here to enjoy it.
:(


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Offline Kerry

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2008, 11:24:00 am »

No. Too late.
Heath should have gotten it for Ennis and BBM should have gotten the Best Picture award period.


Me too. Too late.   :'(
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Offline Gabreya

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2008, 10:19:44 pm »
It's been too late for a long time for them anyway.
Let's face it. The Academy Awards are a BIG JOKE today. Nobody REALLY doesn't take it seriously all that much anymore.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2008, 12:42:30 am »
Remind me not to piss you off!!  ;D




You can say that twice and mean it, Rich!  Our Barb's a lively litle gal.  :)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2008, 11:34:05 pm »
Heath once spoke of feeling like a commodity, eg a bottle of coke, being branded etc for mass consumption,despite the fact it was disgusting.It was the main reason he deliberately moved away from the Hollywood pretty boy roles and started after AKT to look for considerably more demanding and less obvious roles.
He could have taken the easy route with his looks, but chose diversification instead. I really hope at that level he does not get nominated for an Oscar. It would be the final insult and betrayal, for him to be treated as a commodity, after his demise, when it was his desire to escape as far as possible from that, which led to his greates role as Ennis.Which the Academy were to cowardly to recognise.
Personally, I hope they all choke on their collective bile !!
Bitter me? No whatever gave you that idea?

Totally agree with all you've said.

I was just reading an article in which Michael Caine was quoted as saying that if Heath were still alive, this performance would have sent him into the stratosphere.  And I actually said out loud, "He would have hated that."

It still really hurts whenever I catch myself thinking of him in the past tense.  Damn reality.
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Offline Gabreya

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2008, 01:51:08 am »
I know. Reality and death is a BITCH. Heath truelly were one of the good ones. And he will be NEVER forgotten. Never. :(

Oh, guess what. Today, I went back to see the TDK for the second time. My own mother said that he deserves an Oscar, too! SHOCKING. Not really. But, yes. Heath delivers as usual. And this time, I actually paid close attention to the Joker's perspective. He actually did prove a point.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2008, 10:02:22 pm »
And this time, I actually paid close attention to the Joker's perspective. He actually did prove a point.

Indeed.  The point being that we have no control over the evil that goes on in the world, and to think that we do is utterly foolish.

I just re-watched 'Batman Begins' a few days ago.  It's interesting to watch that one again with that added perspective.  There is a scene at the end in which Rachel Dawes touches Bruce's face, right after he refers to someday hoping to be able to remove the mask forever, and says "No.  This is your mask."  That *really* resonated with me.  Much moreso than it had before.  It also speaks to my view that Bruce Wayne is made of stone - he only comes to life when he wears the suit.  On yet another level, I see actors - the greatest of actors - as only coming to life when they play a role.  It's just being themselves that's hard.
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Offline Gabreya

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2008, 11:49:31 pm »
You said it, ednbarby.

Offline rlh03

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2008, 01:45:29 pm »
Absolutely not!  The Academy cannot go back and redo what they didn't do for Heath's role in Brokeback Mountain.  They can only recognize his role in the current award year as the Joker in TDK.  And that is only if they break their own rule regarding posthumous awards.  They could possibly give him a special Oscar, or a lifetime achievement award.  But making up for the way they treated Heath Ledger, Jake Gyllenhaal and BBM, never, never, never can they do that.

Offline Gabreya

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2008, 05:29:02 pm »
Absolutely not!  The Academy cannot go back and redo what they didn't do for Heath's role in Brokeback Mountain.  They can only recognize his role in the current award year as the Joker in TDK.  And that is only if they break their own rule regarding posthumous awards.  They could possibly give him a special Oscar, or a lifetime achievement award.  But making up for the way they treated Heath Ledger, Jake Gyllenhaal and BBM, never, never, never can they do that.

You took the words out of my mouth. They should've gave Heath, Jake, Michelle, AND this movie the award when they had the chance! Not give it to some dramatic movie that nobody really likes because it give everyone a bad name! You know, I heard that it was supposed to boost the Oscar ratings when they made the surprising upset. HUGE mistake!
But, ever since then, the Oscars have been having a lower percentage of viewers. Tsk tsk. The Oscars are so homophobic, racist, picky, and too full of themselves. It's a shame, too. It seems like today, other award shows are being more recognizable and more dependable. Oscars, it's gonna be history within a few years.

Offline rlh03

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2008, 07:52:48 pm »
Does anyone know if a video exists, and accessible online, of Dustin Hoffman speaking at that Academy Awards program.  I'd give my eye-teeth (if I still had them) to see it.  Anyone?

Offline KristinDaBomb

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2008, 05:25:37 am »
No, it can't be redeemed. He should have won the first time. Phillip S. Hoffman is a great actor, and did a good job in Capote. But it wasn't amazing like Ledger. It is much more harder to create a character, then to imitate someone like PSH did.

I never watch the Oscars, so I probably won't. If Heath is nominated, I will watch that part on Youtube or something. If he doesn't win though, I won't be surprised. He definitely deserves it, but the academy awards are such a joke.
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Offline BlissC

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2008, 10:10:10 am »
To be honest (and this might not be popular), but having seen TDK on Saturday in Brussels, I have to say that though I thought Heath was good in TDK, overall the film wasn't spectacular, and though I think Heath probably played the best part in the film (and there were some nice little touches from Heath and a couple of almost Ennis-esque facial expressions, and I think on some level he had some fun playing that part), I don't think it was a particularly Oscar-worthy performance. Interesting certainly, and thought-provoking in parts, but not on the same level as Ennis.

I think Heath's role raised to the film from mere "popcorn" to "popcorn with some style", and certainly none of the other characters stood out, but I don't think that the part he played was spectacular, and certainly not on a par with his performance as Ennis.

Heath, Jake, Michelle, and BBM should have got the award when they had the opportunity, but Oscars for TDK? If they award Oscars for TDK it will prove (which we know anyway) that the whole thing's driven by money and the whole Hollywood commodification and commercialization, and it really would be a travesty to reward commercial success over talent and truly inspiring performances.


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Offline Gabreya

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2008, 05:44:33 pm »
To be honest (and this might not be popular), but having seen TDK on Saturday in Brussels, I have to say that though I thought Heath was good in TDK, overall the film wasn't spectacular, and though I think Heath probably played the best part in the film (and there were some nice little touches from Heath and a couple of almost Ennis-esque facial expressions, and I think on some level he had some fun playing that part), I don't think it was a particularly Oscar-worthy performance. Interesting certainly, and thought-provoking in parts, but not on the same level as Ennis.

I think Heath's role raised to the film from mere "popcorn" to "popcorn with some style", and certainly none of the other characters stood out, but I don't think that the part he played was spectacular, and certainly not on a par with his performance as Ennis.

Heath, Jake, Michelle, and BBM should have got the award when they had the opportunity, but Oscars for TDK? If they award Oscars for TDK it will prove (which we know anyway) that the whole thing's driven by money and the whole Hollywood commodification and commercialization, and it really would be a travesty to reward commercial success over talent and truly inspiring performances.

You're right. I thought that he was the BEST part out of the WHOLE FILM. Don't get me wrong. I'm a Batman fan but it's just TDK is too complex and too DARK that I feel like I'm watching 'a horror movie disguised as a superhero movie'! I don't know why people think it's the GREATEST MOVIE EVER MADE! They're crazy as heck! This movie had so many flaws and mistakes, even though it's a great movie.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2008, 06:17:18 pm »
Heath, Jake, Michelle, and BBM should have got the award when they had the opportunity, but Oscars for TDK? If they award Oscars for TDK it will prove (which we know anyway) that the whole thing's driven by money and the whole Hollywood commodification and commercialization, and it really would be a travesty to reward commercial success over talent and truly inspiring performances.

I completely agree with this!

Offline Wayne

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2008, 06:20:33 pm »
Nope. The Academy still requires gay men to pretend they are straight.

It is one of the most homophobic institutions in America.

There is nothing in the Academy worth redeeming.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

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Offline Gabreya

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Re: If Heath get a posthumous Oscar, would that redeem the Academy?
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2008, 08:05:58 pm »
I agree with Bliss, Mikaela, and everyone else here. The Academy just keep noticing the wrong things when it comes to quality in movies. And I don't think TDK is THE BEST MOVIE EVER, unless I'm probably on drugs(I'm not so don't worry). And it's a shame that lots of people think this is best out of classic movies like "The Godfather", "Gone With The Wind", and perhaps this movie! It shows you we have way too many fanatics that it's scary.