Author Topic: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic  (Read 9495 times)

Offline Flashframe777

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Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« on: August 13, 2008, 12:23:29 pm »
What do you guys think of this?  I'm have joined Guerilla Gay Bar.  But I've never actually participated in it yet.  I may seem all political regarding gay rights, but I'm still not quite an activist.  GGB is a secret event that happens once a month.  Basically, group organizers send out a series of emails that hint at a meeting place on a specific night of the week.  The last email informing everyone of the meeting place goes out a day or on the same day of the scheduled event.  What happens on that evening is several hundred gay men and/or women show up at a straight/hetero establishment and turn it into a gay bar for the evening without warning.  Cool, and just a tad scary.  Would you participate?
"yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"


Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 12:41:16 pm »
I love the idea, I would be very tempted to participate. Of course if it were a Hells Angles' bar I would probably decline, but the run of a mill bar would probably be pretty fun, wonder what they would do when the first same sex kiss happens?
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 01:13:52 pm »
Interesting concept, but not my cup of tea.

I'm too old and tired to go out on week nights anyway. ...  :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 03:02:39 pm »
Interesting concept, but not my cup of tea.

I'm too old and tired to go out on week nights anyway. ...  :laugh:

Maybe they will have a Friday night and we can tank up on coffee.  :laugh:
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 03:55:07 pm »
fun idea!
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Offline milomorris

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 04:56:14 pm »
I wouldn't be interested in anything like this. I don't understand the objective. Unles I'm reading too much into it, it seems like these folks just want to antagonize straight people. I don't see any value in that.

Milo
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 05:04:29 pm »
What do you guys think of this?  I'm have joined Guerilla Gay Bar.  But I've never actually participated in it yet.  I may seem all political regarding gay rights, but I'm still not quite an activist.  GGB is a secret event that happens once a month.  Basically, group organizers send out a series of emails that hint at a meeting place on a specific night of the week.  The last email informing everyone of the meeting place goes out a day or on the same day of the scheduled event.  What happens on that evening is several hundred gay men and/or women show up at a straight/hetero establishment and turn it into a gay bar for the evening without warning.  Cool, and just a tad scary.  Would you participate?

I would definitely participte in this, especially if I knew other gay women were going to be participating and not just gay men.


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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 07:11:48 pm »
I wouldn't be interested in anything like this. I don't understand the objective. Unless I'm reading too much into it, it seems like these folks just want to antagonize straight people. I don't see any value in that.

Milo

The antagonism aspect is a troubling one to me. I would not want to offend or otherwise cause bad karma, but lord the temptation to go to any public place an display affection, or at least identify without fear, is an awfully intoxicating one.

This article is intersting:

http://www.vueweekly.com/article.php?id=2084
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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 11:49:58 pm »
The antagonism aspect is a troubling one to me. I would not want to offend or otherwise cause bad karma, but lord the temptation to go to any public place an display affection, or at least identify without fear, is an awfully intoxicating one.

This article is intersting:

http://www.vueweekly.com/article.php?id=2084

first thoughts...that the activists themselves missed something...they may have 'taught' the straights something..but the straights showed THEM something too. There WAS no confrontations. The straights let them be. They came in...joined the crowd that was there...behaved like PEOPLE...and they were let be.

the thing that bothers me is the hints that since this one was so successful that the next one would be more 'outrageous'...and the answer is yes, if you get more and more confrontational then people will push back.

injest

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2008, 11:54:16 pm »
I do think it is a good idea if it doesnt' turn into a "in your FACE, BREEDER" kinda thing...

what was described in the article could be a good thing for BOTH groups...Straights NEED to see gay people just being people...and gay people need to learn that they are not in as much danger as they may feel from straights...

a first step to building a level of familiarity..

Offline Katie77

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2008, 01:37:49 am »
Sounds like trouble waiting to happen to me and thats more because of the alcolhol and how it stirs people into doing things that they would not normally do while sober. If the straights think it is an exhibitionist thing, then they probably wont accept it without some form of confrontation. A lot depends on how the gay group behave.

Now, how would gays accept it if straights took over one of their bars, especially if they could see it had been organised to do so?

The concept is great, to have both groups mix and integrate, but whether it will work or not is another thing.
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Offline milomorris

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2008, 02:22:49 am »
Now, how would gays accept it if straights took over one of their bars, especially if they could see it had been organised to do so?

There would be hell to pay, and you know it!!
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Offline milomorris

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2008, 02:51:02 am »
http://www.vueweekly.com/article.php?id=2084

Thank you, Truman. This article you posted makes me think that I may have judged this activity a bit harshly. But I still have some problems with it.

First, I do this type of thing on my own all the time. I am famous (OK...notorious  O0) for walking into a town where I've never been; sitting down; and having a few drinks. Inevitably, I will connect with someone(s) on a social level. By the time my sexual orientation comes up in the conversation, they are usually already at ease with me, and therefore it is not problematic. I really think the group thing makes it artificial. 3-4-5 people maybe, but a couple hundred?? Overkill and fabrication.

Second, I hate the title. Gorilla Gay Bar. Who the hell came up with that??? This effort needs better PR.

So...what do I like about the idea:

Quote
Among the 30 or so participants, there were no drag queens, divas or crazy costumes, as is the norm in cities with established guerrilla events. Part of the reason behind this conservatism is that it was a first event and participants, having just met each other for the first time, were quite cautious. “We were just sticking our toes in the water rather than jumping in full-hog,” says Samuel.

And since Gorilla Gay Bars are supposed to accurately reflect the local queer community, it didn’t seem fitting to be outrageous, Samuel says, because Edmonton just doesn’t have a large queer community fond of lavish spectacle; the extravagant members that Edmonton does have were, coincidentally, busy at their own event, an annual drag-queen ball being held that same evening. “It wasn’t the party crowd that came out,” Samuel says. “It was the activist crowd, and I think very typical of what you’d expect from an Edmonton group and a first event.”

- These people are practicing something that I have been espousing for quite some time. Specifically, the idea that the best way to combat homophobia is via normalized relationships with heterosexuals. Their mission is consistent with that philosophy.

- They stayed away from the outrageous, and (hopefully) the stereotypical.

- I wonder how many of them were asked serious questions, and were able to answer intelligently and with understanding.

- They were interested in representing the broadest segment of the not-exclusively-hetero population. And they did this within the context of the center of that population. They found that the center looked more like an dentist than a diva.

As I have said many times: Things go best when we don't lead with sexuality. There are more interesting things about us.

Milo
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2008, 05:20:04 am »
Quote
“Gorilla Gay Bars bring together a whole bunch of political and cultural goals in one package,” says Chris Samuel, organizer of the event and co-host of CJSR’s Gaywire. “We wanted to increase the visibility of the gay community and to go into places where gay people aren’t traditionally seen and build a safe presence there. It’s a way for us to expand our horizons and not limit ourselves to one bar identity.”

Above quoted from the Vue article.

Not exactly a take-over or a "We're Queer, we're here, and we're in your face" initiative. After much thought and while I wouldn't participate in such an event, I think it's a great idea. Unlike Edmonton, more and more gays--groups or otherwise--are frequenting straight clubs and bars. I see it all the time. While gay bars appear to flourish in Oklahoma City and the like, they are closing up in Seattle and Portland. Like all good ideas, though, it would take a few to ruin the concept. Lesbian women have better grasp of boundaries. Many gay men, especially cutsie, bitchy young queens or the well-healed and middle aged, "oh smell her" crowd, simply don't respect straight men. Especially if they are good looking. In a crowd they can be overt, overbearing, and down right embarassing. Like, 'leave the poor hunky straight guy alone, already'. He ain't interested in you. I can see, especially in numbers and the inclusion of many $8 Martini's, this becoming a problem. And the first time one of these gay guys goes stepping over boundaries and gets his ass kicked, none of it will be his fault and it will be chocked up to homophobia and intolerance, and the whole thing will be like taking one step forward and two back. Traditional gay bars and the Castro's of the past have been confines. Islands if you will, and not without reason. I don't think they are needed anymore. Leave the assless chaps, the high-heels, and the boa's home, respect straight people and at the end of the day, I don't think a majority of people gives a rats ass. Wanna parade around in sequined jock straps or dress like Tallulah Bankhead, save it for Halloween, Mardi Gras, or that dying gay bar down the street.

Rather this particular idea goes south or not, I believe this is actually a big step, among many, over the past few years in an effort to assimilate. This is a great chance for guys that don't fit in to the streotypical gay strata to meet like men who may be homo but hang in hetro venues cause', well, it's more comfortable then those pretentious gay bars or "Queer as Folk" type body-marts.

Brad



Offline Katie77

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2008, 07:13:22 pm »
I never thought to mention this before but I was sitting talking to my son and daughter in law yesterday and they were telling me about their night out last week.

We live in a large "country" town with a population of 24,000 in Australia. Most of the population here are just your normal working class people, farmers and tradesmen, locals who have lived here for generations, and people who have moved here from the city for a quieter life.

The most popular pub in town attracts most of the younger crowd (18-40) every friday and saturday night. They have music and dancing and its generally known as the place to go for a good night out.

Every second Saturday night, they have what they call "diverse" night. Gays and straights mingle and dance and generally mix between one another.  From what I hear it is very successful, there have been no violent incidents and everyone gets along fine.

I think when it was first started, a lot of the youngens went along for the curiosity value, but from what my son tells me now, the gay/straight thing is not even a big deal anymore, and everyone just goes on having a good time with their friends.

Of course the pub is open to both gay and straight patrons on any night, but the "diverse" night has turned into something special and has turned into social event that they all look forward to.

As far as I know, there is no particular "gay bar" in town, but undoubtedly there would be some place either here, or in another close town where the gay community socialize independently. I am not into the gay scene so have never inquired or asked about it.

This town, would have been similar to your mid western towns back in the sixties. It was settled by men returning from World War 2, who were brought up through the depression, who, after the war, worked for the railway, or cut sugar cane, or ran dairy farms. Some never ventured to the big cities.

To see their grandchildren and great grandchildren living in such a non homophobic society, and socializing and mixing is an enormous achievement.

So done properly, these kind of events can be successful, with no intimidation or intrusion. I still dont like the idea of planning an "invasion" of a gay bar, but the sentiment behind it, is worth continuing with as long as it is done with respect and dignity.
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Offline milomorris

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2008, 06:24:01 pm »
as long as it is done with respect and dignity.

You just said a mouthful, Katie. Its amazing what one can accomplish if it is done with respect and dignity.

And thanks for sharing that story about the pub in your town. Back in the 80s, I was living in Bermuda. There were no gay bars there at the time (I don't think they have any now either). So everyone just went to whatever bar they liked best. Everyone got along just fine. If a guy was interested, he was interested. If not, he just said so. Pretty darn simple.

Milo
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

injest

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2008, 12:45:54 am »
What do you guys think of this?  I'm have joined Guerilla Gay Bar.  But I've never actually participated in it yet.  I may seem all political regarding gay rights, but I'm still not quite an activist.  GGB is a secret event that happens once a month.  Basically, group organizers send out a series of emails that hint at a meeting place on a specific night of the week.  The last email informing everyone of the meeting place goes out a day or on the same day of the scheduled event.  What happens on that evening is several hundred gay men and/or women show up at a straight/hetero establishment and turn it into a gay bar for the evening without warning.  Cool, and just a tad scary.  Would you participate?

so with all this... :laugh: :laugh:

have you decided to take part?

we want to know what happened!!

Offline optom3

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2008, 10:48:06 am »
When I was back in England,there was a whole street of gay bars in Manchester (north England). They were incredibly popular with everyone, male,female,gay or straight.It gradually became known as the part of town to have a good time.In fact during the day it was just as busy, with the office folk who descended for a drink and sandwich.
The whole thing became part of the Manchester scene, with bands like The Verve, Blur and Oasis, and it seemed like Manchester, was the center of the world.
It was still going strong when I left England.I have been there with gay friends, male and female and straight too.I never had anything less than an amazing time.
I still can't get my head around the fact that the USA allegedly one of, if not the biggest super power in the world can be so backward in some areas.
Even in Greece, on the island of Santorini, fabulous bars and clubs, predominantly gay, but always with a mixed queue to get in.It seems to me that gays seem much better at having a good time than straights like me.Same goes for Ibetha, the club capital of the world.
Why is it so difficult here, to have the same situation.I cannot understand it.
What I have noticed is that way, way more people are church goers here, compared with most of Europe, yet we seem to be more tolerant.I wonder of there is a link there somewhere.
In the meantime check out Santorini for a holiday,a truly stunning island, famed for the best sunsets in the world, and with as many mixed bars/clubs as anyone could want.Ditto Ibetha.

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2008, 11:47:42 am »
I still can't get my head around the fact that the USA allegedly one of, if not the biggest super power in the world can be so backward in some areas.


Oh, trust me.....it's backwards. 

Even in the gay areas, bashings happen. Like this story of out club performer Kevin Aviance.

(Taken from Wikipedia) On June 10, 2006 while exiting the Phoenix, a popular gay bar located in the East Village, Manhattan, he was robbed and beaten by a group of men who yelled anti-gay slurs at him. Four suspects were arrested under New York's hate-crime law, but reports say up to seven men were involved in the attack.  Despite suffering a broken jaw, he insisted on appearing in the city's gay pride parade later that month.

On March 21, 2007 all four assailants pled guilty, receiving prison sentences ranging from 6 to 15 years in plea agreements that included hate crimes embellishments. The four young men, who range in age from 17 to 21 years old, had faced up to 25 years each for the attack, had they been found guilty in a trial. All had been charged with gang assault as a hate crime.





Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline oilgun

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2008, 04:13:11 pm »
I haven't read the article, for some reason, the link to the Vue article didn't work for me but I like the idea of the Guerrilla Gay Bar if only for nostalgic reasons.

It reminds me of back in the seventies (When porn was expensive and sex was free  ;)) when it was the trend for (activist) gays to make Public Displays of Affection for political reasons.   This basically consisted of holding hands or walking arm in arm and maybe some kissing.   

They weren't organized events, just things we tried to do during our everyday lives when the occasion presented itself, such as walking around in public with another willing gay person.  The idea was to normalise gay people (Yikes!  The dreaded Gay Agenda!), to show that "we are everywhere".   If we swarmed a bar or restaurant as a group, it was usually as a response to some anti-gay incident at that establishment. 

I'm surprised that there would be a need for Guerrilla Gay Bars (sorry Milo, I love the name) in this day and age.  But then we are talking Edmonton here.  Alberta is basically the Texas of Canada... ;D
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 07:21:15 pm by oilgun »

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2008, 08:57:21 am »
They weren't organized events, just things we tried to do during our everyday lives when the occasion presented itself, such as walking around in public with another willing gay person.  The idea was to normalise gay people (Yikes!  The dreaded Gay Agenda!), to show that "we are everywhere".   If we swarmed a bar or restaurant as a group, it was usually as a response to some anti-gay incident at that establishment.


Oh, sorta like the "Cracker Barrell" stuff I've heard of.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline optom3

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2008, 11:55:55 am »

Oh, trust me.....it's backwards. 

Even in the gay areas, bashings happen. Like this story of out club performer Kevin Aviance.

(Taken from Wikipedia) On June 10, 2006 while exiting the Phoenix, a popular gay bar located in the East Village, Manhattan, he was robbed and beaten by a group of men who yelled anti-gay slurs at him. Four suspects were arrested under New York's hate-crime law, but reports say up to seven men were involved in the attack.  Despite suffering a broken jaw, he insisted on appearing in the city's gay pride parade later that month.

On March 21, 2007 all four assailants pled guilty, receiving prison sentences ranging from 6 to 15 years in plea agreements that included hate crimes embellishments. The four young men, who range in age from 17 to 21 years old, had faced up to 25 years each for the attack, had they been found guilty in a trial. All had been charged with gang assault as a hate crime.





Now I am truly shocked,I did at least think in a city as cosmopolitan as New York, this sort of incident would never occur.I find that very scary.The city has experienced first hand what hatred and bigoted prejudice can do,aka 9/11  I would have thought that may have translated into a better understanding and tolerance of all.Obviously not.Sometimes I just despair of the human race.
What bigger catastrophe fuelled by hate has to happen, before people just wake up and thing, hang on a minute,we can stop a lot of this.It is withinn our power to control some aspects.
I am not talking of some idealistic Nirvana,simply a willingness within our own societies, to accept even when we may not understand or agree.We have learned nothing from WW2 and Adolf. He thought only blond haired blue eyed ,heterosexual pure Aryans should be allowed to survive.So much hope and optimism for the world when the war ended.Yet now, have things really changed so very much.No is the simple but very depressing answer.
Had I been alive in any of the countries that Hitler invaded I would have been killed.I am brunette, 1/4 Jewish and with a treated "mental" problem.
I want to just give up the fight sometimes, but I can't,because 6/12 ago my oldest son was chanting his anti gay garbage.Something he learned from the kids at his school.
Now, admittedly properly medicated, his closest friend is gay.He has done a 180 degs turn and is one of the biggest supporters of gays. To the extent of chasing off a bunch of thugs who were chanting the same rubbish and filth, that 6/12 earlier he had been.So while there is just one person who can change,no one can give up.
I more than most, have reason to dislike gays.I was married to one for 7 years, before he came out and we divorced.My reaction was the complete opposite to that expected by friends.I truly felt no ill will towards him.I saw the immense battle he had, to get the place he has happily inhabited for 20 years.Even to the extent of his own mother disowning him.
He is one of the kindest ,most gentle of any man I know.To this day we still exchange Xmas cards and even my parents do.I needed him to help heal the wounds of my rape.He was perfect for me at the time. He needed another wounded being to help him.
Sorry, I have as per usual waffled on.It is simply I do not think the message can ever be repeated too many times.

P.S if any of you have BBC America, then watch the Graham Norton show. He is an openly gay man, who hosts a sort of chat show.To give one example, hidden cameras and microphones had been put in a mens restroom, Dustin Hoffman was the guest and he was on microphone telling the men to shake off properly and wash afterwards.He then told a couple of filthy but highly entertaining jokes.

injest

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2008, 06:58:20 pm »
Did you ever do this FlashFrame? I am curious as how it went if you did!


Offline Flashframe777

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2008, 01:31:42 am »
Wow, I forgot that I posted this topic.

So, I still haven't gone.  But here's the feedback.  Actually, the owners appreciate the influx of customers in most of the places is what I'm told.  Some of them have asked for GGBar to come back.  It's kind of different here in LA though.  Instead of 1 in 10 being gay - it's closer to 5 in 10...and the other five are questionable. ;)  The pictures they send me from the events are very cool.  Everyone is having fun.  BTW large groups of straights ALWAYS crash the West Hollywood gay bars...I think that's where GGBar got the idea.
"yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"


injest

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Re: Guerrilla Gay Bar - My new topic
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2008, 07:53:42 am »
Wow, I forgot that I posted this topic.

So, I still haven't gone.  But here's the feedback.  Actually, the owners appreciate the influx of customers in most of the places is what I'm told.  Some of them have asked for GGBar to come back.  It's kind of different here in LA though.  Instead of 1 in 10 being gay - it's closer to 5 in 10...and the other five are questionable. ;)  The pictures they send me from the events are very cool.  Everyone is having fun.  BTW large groups of straights ALWAYS crash the West Hollywood gay bars...I think that's where GGBar got the idea.

well that's cool then. You SHOULD go...sounds like the idea isnt' as confrontational as I thought at first..