Author Topic: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?  (Read 9194 times)

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2008, 07:14:29 pm »
Well, for sure the overt evidence that Ennis kept at least one is clear from the last scene.

I suspect the last thing Lureen would have done would be to go on a search and find mission, suspecting that there was something to find out about her husband. No way. She was quite independent, confident, and Jack unfortunately was under appreciated by her. An under appreciated person is not a target of suspicion. Jack would have been quite able to have a secret hiding place to store his memories; and the manner in which he held to Ennis' absense indicates to me that Jack would have had a large collection of memorabilia.

Ennis, I think, would have also held onto the cards. The constant need to assess their relationship in current-day terms is a mistake; always have said that. for Ennis' time and frame of mind and situation, he knew he had little to show for his long term relationship except that which resided in his heart...and notes in Jack's own hand. Fear makes people turn to means of comfort that may otherwise be considered unnecessary. Ennis, I suspect, had a good sampling of cards stached away for those lonely times when he needed to reach out for Jack...when Jack was not there. Jack's shirt is evidence, also, of Ennis' sentimentality regarding physical items that bridge the gap of distance and loss.

Offline Gabreya

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2008, 09:20:58 pm »
They kept eachother's postcards, I know.

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2008, 10:21:13 pm »
Merci Herrkaiser!

Your post is very interesting!!

You say:
      Well, for sure the overt evidence that Ennis kept at least one is clear from the last scene.

I suspect the last thing Lureen would have done would be to go on a search and find mission, suspecting that there was something to find out about her husband. No way. She was quite independent, confident, and Jack unfortunately was under appreciated by her. An under appreciated person is not a target of suspicion. Jack would have been quite able to have a secret hiding place to store his memories; and the manner in which he held to Ennis' absense indicates to me that Jack would have had a large collection of memorabilia.

Ennis, I think, would have also held onto the cards. The constant need to assess their relationship in current-day terms is a mistake; always have said that. for Ennis' time and frame of mind and situation, he knew he had little to show for his long term relationship except that which resided in his heart...and notes in Jack's own hand. Fear makes people turn to means of comfort that may otherwise be considered unnecessary. Ennis, I suspect, had a good sampling of cards stached away for those lonely times when he needed to reach out for Jack...when Jack was not there. Jack's shirt is evidence, also, of Ennis' sentimentality regarding physical items that bridge the gap of distance and loss.
 
 
         

...........

HerrKaiser, may I disagree a bit ?


Since you say:   Jack was     unfortunately was under appreciated by her (Lureen)...         , may I say that that is NOT nescessary so, because she saw, heard and tried her best. Both, Jack and Lureen got along somehow; right ?

Too, Lureen did try to see Ennis, but Jack was not interested in presenting him, remember?

I do not blame neither! I accept BOTH, since they tried !! I suppose that Jack did kept, like you are saying, Ennis's postcards; there would have been many ?

........

Concerning Ennis, it could be that he had eventually many postcards from Jack, but at first that would have been dangerous for him to do so, and that is why he had a Post Office Post but ONLY after awhile ?

Be pleasure to read your news and that of others too !
Au revoir,
hugs!

............

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2008, 10:22:39 pm »
Merci Gabreya !

But how many postcards did each kept, do you think??

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2008, 12:46:35 am »
Another thing that always gets me in relation to the final postcard scene, is that we know in the S.S there is no smell of Jack or BBM leftin the shirts,yet after the reunion kiss, when they go upstairs to Alma, Ennis is aware that he can smell Jack on him.
So many opposites in this wonderful thing called Brokeback.Every single thing is bittersweet. I wish that Ennis hd just kept the 1st card, that he almost lovingly caresses.

For those that have lost a loved one, they will definately understand the reaction of Ennis to hold Jack's clothes up to smell them, in the hope that somehow they might get a scent of their loved one.  I know, when I lost my sister many years ago, I used to smell her clothes and it gave me something of her that was unique and human about her that I could still feel her presence, even though she was gone. Sadly, over time, the smell disappears, and there is another feeling of loss when that happens.

In Ennis's case where he had both his and Jacks shirt, he probably wanted to smell once again the odour of both him and Jack together, as well as just the presence of Jack.

And yes, the two contrasting events you mentioned above....in one, with the shirts, he wanted the smell to be there, whereas, the other time, with Jack, he wished the smell was Not there.

Back to the postcards.....I wonder if there were many postcards sent between the two of them. The fact that Ennis had to TELL Jack , in the final lake scene, that the next time would be November and not August, indicates that they worked out when they would meet again while they were together. OR, that it was a standard thing that it was always in August. If they exchanged postcards about when they were gonna meet up, Ennis would not have been so twitchy about telling Jack about the August cancellation, and would have just let him know in a postcard.

We do know that Ennis must have contacted Jack about the divorce, but he had not contacted Jack to tell him where he had moved to.

I really dont think there were many postcards to keep.
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Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2008, 01:24:07 pm »
Katie, why do you say:
      I really dont think there were many postcards to keep.                ?
......

Could it be that men do NOT write that much nor often??

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2008, 03:27:36 pm »
Merci Herrkaiser!

Your post is very interesting!!


...........

HerrKaiser, may I disagree a bit ?


Since you say:   Jack was     unfortunately was under appreciated by her (Lureen)...         , may I say that that is NOT nescessary so, because she saw, heard and tried her best. Both, Jack and Lureen got along somehow; right ?

Too, Lureen did try to see Ennis, but Jack was not interested in presenting him, remember?



thanks artiste, but I see no evidence that Lureen 'tried her best' to build a real relationship with Jack. She was clearly controlled by her father and allowed it. She had no intention of disrupting that, even at the expense of her own husband's denigration. Jack seemed disappointed to admit that his marriage could be handled "on the phone", but Lureen seemed to share no such attitude; rather she seemed resigned to the loveless marriage, cynical, and uninterested. So, I think it is definitely fair to say Lureen underappreciated Jack and in her frame of mind/family posture, she would have had very little interest in going through any of Jack's "things".

also, it is not clear that Jack did not want Ennis to come to their (Jack and Lureen's) home. Jack simply knew Ennis would not be able to make the trip for at least two good reasons and TX was not at all the same atmostphere they so enjoyed in WY.

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2008, 04:23:36 pm »
Merci HerrKaiser

But which are the two reasons Ennis did NOT go to Jack and Lureen's home, do you think?


Could is be that Lureen had seen one of those postcards that Ennis sent?

Au revoir,
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Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2008, 05:07:41 pm »
thanks artiste, but I see no evidence that Lureen 'tried her best' to build a real relationship with Jack. She was clearly controlled by her father and allowed it. She had no intention of disrupting that, even at the expense of her own husband's denigration. Jack seemed disappointed to admit that his marriage could be handled "on the phone", but Lureen seemed to share no such attitude; rather she seemed resigned to the loveless marriage, cynical, and uninterested. So, I think it is definitely fair to say Lureen underappreciated Jack and in her frame of mind/family posture, she would have had very little interest in going through any of Jack's "things".

also, it is not clear that Jack did not want Ennis to come to their (Jack and Lureen's) home. Jack simply knew Ennis would not be able to make the trip for at least two good reasons and TX was not at all the same atmostphere they so enjoyed in WY.

I dont agree with you on Laureen's attitude to Jack. I think she was proud of Jack when he stood up to her father in the Thanksgiving scene, and Jack showed a lot of respect to Laureen in that same scene, mentioning about her cooking the dinner. I think that scene was there, to show that Jack and Laureen led a civil life together. It also showed, that she wanted her son to respect his father.

I do think Laureen and Jack had a civil and respectful relationship together, and I think they loved each other probably more like brother and sister. I have read posts on here from gay men who are married, and they still love and respect their wives.

I think when Jack said they could "have sex over the phone", I think that was an indication that their sex life was either non existent or just "quickie" type sex. It was also the opportunity for Jack to justify "putting the blocks" to someone else. Even though he did not tell the truth, that it was with Randall, by telling Ennis that he was at least having some sexual gratification, he was kind of taking any suspicions away, that Eniis might have of him going with another man.

I have no doubt, that they loved each other as much as they could, consiidering the circumstances.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: TOTW 22/08: Do you think they kept each others postcards?
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2008, 12:27:17 am »
Merci HerrKaiser

But which are the two reasons Ennis did NOT go to Jack and Lureen's home, do you think?


His truck would never make the trip and he would never get the extra travel time off work (or cut a couple days into his time with Jack).