Author Topic: Is it better to have loved and lost?  (Read 8817 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Is it better to have loved and lost?
« on: August 26, 2008, 03:15:14 pm »
Would you rather fall in love young, only to have love fade away, like Jack and Ennis did, or have an enduring love that is more like friendship? In other words, are you the passionate or practical type? Or are you love-adverse? Please vote and tell us more about this aspect of the human condition!

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Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 03:33:00 pm »
I put other because I want it all!
I don't think it has to be either or.
My Grandparents met in the 7th grade in 1932 and have been together ever since.
That is the love I want. They are friends, partners, lovers and confidants.
They have been through wars, children, grandchildren, great grand children, times of plenty, times of struggle and yet they endure with a love that has never grown old. I want that.
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Offline Berit

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 04:53:02 pm »
I also had grandparents like yours, loneleeb3. They had a marriage with both passion - 12 kids - and friendship. They LIKED each other.I think that passion and friendship exists together. Without friendship it's just sex....but with passion and friendship it can last a lifetime.... ;D

Berit
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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 07:03:39 pm »
I vote other...

a love that stays passionate and fun...with a man that never gets tired of chasing you when you run but would walk thru fire for you.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2008, 07:18:23 pm »
I vote other...

a love that stays passionate and fun...with a man that never gets tired of chasing you when you run but would walk thru fire for you.

Here, here!

Offline optom3

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 12:16:48 pm »
I voted other, because I too want it all.
In fact what I really want, is to have been given the courage to follow my heart.If You are shown all encompassing love, which in my case was secret, and  has lasted nearly 15 years.Then it is too cruel not be given the fortitude, strength, call it what you will, to grab it with both hands,instead of running from it all the time.
Sadly, but logically, to love someone so desperately much, means that to lose them,no matter how good the intentions, hurts equally as much.Unfortunately by the time the penny finally drops, it can often be too late.
So as Ennis you long to turn back the hands of time.On the surface, life is fine,  passersby,  even sometimes very close friends, have no inkling of what lies just below the surface.You become adept at the art of disguise.At night though, when all others are asleep,you lie crying silent tears that soak the pillow, but provide no respite from the pain.
Proulx must have been badly hurt at some stage, to write that part of the s.s. For me reading it was painful beyond words.Even the sexual dreams which seem so real, only to wake and face reality.

Offline Kerry

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 08:07:11 am »

I too voted "Other."

I met the love of my life and soulmate in my 20s. I had just left a monastery and he had just left the Royal Australian Navy. We were both needy souls, looking for love. I still remember distinctly the first instant I saw him. I can still remember him standing and walking towards me, to shake my hand. He was so handsome - still is! It was love at first sight for me.

We shared 15 blissfully happy, passionately expressive years together.

And then, one fine day, entirely out of the blue, he announced he was bisexual (I had no idea!) and that he was leaving me to marry a woman 15 years his senior.

It was tough for me to get through at the time (I required counseling), but now, many years later, we have settled into a comfortable, platonic relationship together, where we are each others best friend. We love each other and would do anything for each other. He's still married, but I'm fine with that these days. We were having dinner together the other night (his wife is presently away on vacation) and we agreed that we couldn't imagine what our lives would be like without each other.

So I guess I've loved and lost and loved again!
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2008, 02:08:36 pm »
I too voted "Other."

I met the love of my life and soulmate in my 20s. I had just left a monastery and he had just left the Royal Australian Navy. We were both needy souls, looking for love. I still remember distinctly the first instant I saw him. I can still remember him standing and walking towards me, to shake my hand. He was so handsome - still is! It was love at first sight for me.

We shared 15 blissfully happy, passionately expressive years together.

And then, one fine day, entirely out of the blue, he announced he was bisexual (I had no idea!) and that he was leaving me to marry a woman 15 years his senior.

It was tough for me to get through at the time (I required counseling), but now, many years later, we have settled into a comfortable, platonic relationship together, where we are each others best friend. We love each other and would do anything for each other. He's still married, but I'm fine with that these days. We were having dinner together the other night (his wife is presently away on vacation) and we agreed that we couldn't imagine what our lives would be like without each other.

So I guess I've loved and lost and loved again!


Kerry - my goodness, what a story. You're a better man than I could ever be (well a woman, but you know what I mean!) I don't think I could do it. Good on you.
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 07:00:15 pm »
Kerry - my goodness, what a story. You're a better man than I could ever be (well a woman, but you know what I mean!) I don't think I could do it. Good on you.

My experience of "love" probably sounds somewhat strange and exotic to a lot of people. To me, however, it's just my life experience. It happened to me. I would never have believed it in my youth, but now that I'm so much older, I honestly believe that platonic love is, in fact, more intense and enduring than sexual passion. Platonic love is the kinda love a parent has for a child and a child has for a parent. And it's the kinda love I have for my George now.   :)
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2008, 03:27:43 pm »
My experience of "love" probably sounds somewhat strange and exotic to a lot of people. To me, however, it's just my life experience. It happened to me. I would never have believed it in my youth, but now that I'm so much older, I honestly believe that platonic love is, in fact, more intense and enduring than sexual passion. Platonic love is the kinda love a parent has for a child and a child has for a parent. And it's the kinda love I have for my George now.   :)

Very true. I have to say I think I'm getting a little broody in my not so old age - I sat and watched a couple on the train this morning playing with their little boy who must have been under a year. SOOOOO cute and it was just so heart warming to watch.
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2008, 03:41:23 pm »
I too voted "Other."

I met the love of my life and soulmate in my 20s. I had just left a monastery and he had just left the Royal Australian Navy. We were both needy souls, looking for love. I still remember distinctly the first instant I saw him. I can still remember him standing and walking towards me, to shake my hand. He was so handsome - still is! It was love at first sight for me.

We shared 15 blissfully happy, passionately expressive years together.

And then, one fine day, entirely out of the blue, he announced he was bisexual (I had no idea!) and that he was leaving me to marry a woman 15 years his senior.

It was tough for me to get through at the time (I required counseling), but now, many years later, we have settled into a comfortable, platonic relationship together, where we are each others best friend. We love each other and would do anything for each other. He's still married, but I'm fine with that these days. We were having dinner together the other night (his wife is presently away on vacation) and we agreed that we couldn't imagine what our lives would be like without each other.

So I guess I've loved and lost and loved again!


It sounds like you found a soulmate Kerry. As did he. And that is the most beautiful love of all, in my opinion. :)

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Offline Kerry

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2008, 10:04:01 am »
It sounds like you found a soulmate Kerry. As did he. And that is the most beautiful love of all, in my opinion. :)

We are indeed soulmates, David. My life would be all the poorer without his loving presence in it. 
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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2008, 06:12:37 pm »
Attention all of you who chose "Other." Here's what Annie Proulx has to say about it:

 
Quote
I like the phrase "emotional ignorance." I think that emotional ignorance defines most of us, especially Americans, who believe in romantic, lasting love and happiness. Both beliefs are conducive to an almost innocent expectation of a RIGHT to be loved and to be happy without earning it. Since those expectations are very often dashed in real life, emotional ignorance is often paid for with a laggard sense of betrayal, bitter tears and, eventually, a tablespoon of cynicism. How the cold light of eventuality falls on the characters and what they do with it certainly interests me.
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Offline Lynne

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2008, 08:59:33 pm »
I like the phrase "emotional ignorance." I think that emotional ignorance defines most of us, especially Americans, who believe in romantic, lasting love and happiness. Both beliefs are conducive to an almost innocent expectation of a RIGHT to be loved and to be happy without earning it. Since those expectations are very often dashed in real life, emotional ignorance is often paid for with a laggard sense of betrayal, bitter tears and, eventually, a tablespoon of cynicism. How the cold light of eventuality falls on the characters and what they do with it certainly interests me.

I'm an 'Other' too...Lee - that's an interesting quote by Annie - do you know where it's from?? Very cool.
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Offline RouxB

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2008, 10:47:26 pm »
I'm an "other". Oddly enough it took BbM fan fiction to move me to emotional ignorance. I have always had romantic yearnings but, in reality, never believed in forever love. Guess that kinda explains my attraction to unavailable men (and a couple of women  8) )-the best of both worlds, the illusion of romantic love and the reality of HA!

I am evolving (if it is indeed evolution) into emotional ignorance. Change is good-right?

 O0

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Offline Kerry

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2008, 12:55:14 am »

This was emailed to me by a friend the other day. I'd like to share it with you.

It was a busy morning, about 8:30, when an elderly gentleman in his 80's arrived to have stitches removed from his thumb. He said he was in a hurry as he had an appointment at 9:00 am.

I took his vital signs and had him take a seat, knowing it would be over an hour before someone would to able to see him. I saw him looking at his watch and decided, since I was not busy with another patient, I would evaluate his wound. On examination, it was well healed, so I talked to one of the doctors, got the needed supplies to remove his sutures and redressed his wound.

While taking care of his wound, I asked him if he had another doctor's appointment this morning, as he was in such a hurry.

The gentleman told me no, that he needed to go to the nursing home to eat breakfast with his wife. I inquired as to her health.

He told me that she had been there for a while and that she was a victim of Alzheimer's Disease. As we talked, I asked if she would be upset if he was a bit late.

He replied that she no longer knew who he was, that she had not recognized him in five years now.

I was surprised, and asked him, 'And you still go every morning, even though she doesn't know who you are?' He smiled as he patted my hand and said, 'She doesn't know me, but I still know who she is.'

I had to hold back tears as he left, I had goose bumps on my arm, and thought, 'That is the kind of love I want in my life.'

True love is neither physical, nor romantic. True love is an acceptance of all that is, has been, will be, and will not be.

With all the jokes and fun that are in e-mails, sometimes there is one that comes along that has an important message. This one I thought I could share with you.

The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have. I hope you share this with someone you care about. I just did. 'Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain.'

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2008, 01:33:43 am »
thank you Kerry.

 :'( :) :'(

Offline Kelda

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2008, 06:51:09 am »
 :'( beautiful.
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Offline optom3

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2008, 02:18:26 pm »
That just gives me a lovely all over warm feeling. I wonder how many are blessed to experience that depth of relationship.

Offline Kerry

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2008, 07:43:54 pm »

The line, "She doesn't know me, but I still know who she is," brings me completely undone.  :'(
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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 10:01:36 am »
I still wonder about this question, often in the middle of the night. For how many of us is the pillow wet, never the sheets?
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Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 01:42:10 pm »



       Kerry, just in case you havent heard it lately.  You are a wonderful person.  I truly
admire you.  To be able to take that disappointment in your life, without bitterness, and
to share that kind of lovely story with all of us, shows what kind of truly dear and
kind person you are.  Your George is so very lucky to have you in his life.  As are we who
only know you by your presence here...janice



     Beautiful mind

Offline Kerry

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2008, 08:28:41 pm »

Thank you for your sweet, kind words, Janice.

 :-* {{{ Janice }}}  :-*
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2008, 02:39:19 am »
I voted 'other' because there were no choices that included stable longevity! 

I've, luckily, had most of the varieties listed in the poll.  But now I'm monogamous (14 effin years!), raising a child together (which changes everything, especially commitment), and want it to be a smooth, well-running partnership (which it very occasionally is).  We're at a time now where a lot of our conversation is about the logistics of who will pick up the kid when, who will take out the garbage, etc.  It's not very romantic at all very often.  But it's what I need to get through the job of the day.  He's dependable (though chronically somewhat late), committed, a good provider, and a loving father.  I look forward to it getting easier as Mini-Meno gets older, and then it can get more fun again with my husb.

Offline underdown

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2008, 04:47:04 am »
I voted for ‘a friendship based love’, but also ‘want it all’, because that’s a normal wish.
So too, I think, did Ennis and Jack, but they were both blessed with their special friendship, and cursed with not being able to be together.
 
The old adage ‘Take it slowly; friends first’, I used to think was just easy advice by people who had a steady relationship, and I would argue ‘how can you like someone slowly?’ It’s true, though, as others have pointed out, that friendship is the most important ingredient in the cake. True, too, that we want everything, including the icing. Friendship is a good base but, on its own, won’t fully satisfy.

One can easily find icing on a street corner to share a bed with, but there is no love to lose.
Friendship we can find at any gathering of people with similar interests, and we can love friends, but that’s quite different to the kind of love we share with one special person.

Put it all together, and that’s being ‘in love’. Whether for a year and a lot of wet pillows, or for a lifetime, either way it is never lost.

That story of Kerry’s is so moving, and bitter/sweet. So related to the story of Ennis and Jack.

I think even in the sadness of not being able to be together, being able to share a special friendship with someone must be really wonderful.
 :)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2008, 12:54:22 am »
I voted 'other' because there were no choices that included stable longevity! 

I've, luckily, had most of the varieties listed in the poll.  But now I'm monogamous (14 effin years!), raising a child together (which changes everything, especially commitment), and want it to be a smooth, well-running partnership (which it very occasionally is).  We're at a time now where a lot of our conversation is about the logistics of who will pick up the kid when, who will take out the garbage, etc.  It's not very romantic at all very often.  But it's what I need to get through the job of the day.  He's dependable (though chronically somewhat late), committed, a good provider, and a loving father.  I look forward to it getting easier as Mini-Meno gets older, and then it can get more fun again with my husb.

To me, that sounds like a friendship based love. I'm curious why not many people have selected that, choosing "other" instead. More thoughts, please!
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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2008, 11:32:07 pm »
To me, that sounds like a friendship based love. I'm curious why not many people have selected that, choosing "other" instead. More thoughts, please!

friendship love seems too platonic for what I would think of as a love relationship..the term doesnt' match up well.

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2008, 02:06:54 am »
friendship love seems too platonic for what I would think of as a love relationship..the term doesnt' match up well.

you might be right, but on the other hand, it depends on how a person defines friendship. IMO, friendship is more precious than any other relationship. Because often what we call love depends on pheromones, and who is deemed a suitable mate. Friendship is based on something more subtle and more enduring.

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2008, 01:25:43 pm »
I couldn't agree more, but I also believe there is a sexual component to even a friendship.  Nonetheless, I wouldn't want to be in love with someone I would not want as friend first.  It would be so pointless in the end.

well that opens an interesting question..

because I can truthfully say that I have NO sexual interest in my female friends...the thought never crossed my mind...but maybe it is different with gay men since your friends tend to be people of the same sex, which as a gay man you would be attracted to....and you have been exposed to women as possible sex partners since childhood...

injest

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2008, 02:19:09 pm »
that just seems strange to me. I can see having a sexual relationship with someone you don't love...I can see loving someone and not liking them..but I can't see having a sexual relationship with someone I dont' like.


injest

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2008, 02:35:18 pm »
Course it doesn't make sense, but you would be surprised how many people don't actually like who they are with.

I am so glad I am in a good relationship; I hope I never have to get back out there... :P

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2008, 12:34:43 pm »
Course it doesn't make sense, but you would be surprised how many people don't actually like who they are with.

It wouldn't be any surprise to me, sadly. I also know what you mean about being sexually attracted to friends. We are animals after all, and we have the instincts. My friends, both female and male, I love to hug them, look at them, smell them. It makes me happy!
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Offline underdown

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2008, 08:37:39 pm »
Considering the original questions ....

'Is it better to have loved and lost?'.
The old saying, 'It's better to have loved and lost, than to never have loved at all', I think is true.
'Were Jack and Ennis cursed or blessed?'
If the saying above is true, they were blessed.
They were apart more than they were together, yet the love didn't die.
So, it wasn't just sex, or lust. They were friends who were also sexually attracted.
We can't be someone's friend without loving them, and we can't love someone without being their friend.
And if there is friendship AND sexual attraction (as distinct from sexual appreciation), that is being IN love.
Whether we are together or not.

I'd still rather wake up next to my best friend than a partner that I may love but not like very much.

And that is well said, Scott.  :)

Offline underdown

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2008, 10:47:25 pm »
Actually, I think it is better to love someone, and be 'with' them, but each have their own place to go back to.
Then, getting together can be much more fun.  :)

Offline Monika

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Re: Is it better to have loved and lost?
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2008, 08:52:47 am »
Actually, I think it is better to love someone, and be 'with' them, but each have their own place to go back to.
Then, getting together can be much more fun.  :)
agreed
this is how I want things to be when I find someone one day. I need my own space.

And back to the original question...there´s a part of me that says that it´s better "to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all" but at the same time there´s nother part of me that says that I jsut want to avoid all that kind of emotional baggage. hard one.