Author Topic: Annie Annie Annie  (Read 19697 times)

Offline Love

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Annie Annie Annie
« on: September 07, 2008, 09:09:07 am »
This is a topic for celebrate the Great Annie proulx the most important Brokeback lady who has created this gorgeous Love story  :-*

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Offline Love

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 09:10:10 am »
Sometimes I miss you so much,I can hardly stand it

Offline optom3

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 11:35:18 am »


What a good idea.We celebrate all things BBM. yet until now I do not think we have had a thread devoted to the woman who made it all possible.If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

Offline Meryl

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 12:21:19 pm »


Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Love

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2008, 02:39:10 pm »
  2:53 PM - ’Brokeback’ author says says film is source of ’constant irritation’

By Arifa Akbar, Arts Correspondent
Wednesday, 17 September 2008

It was an Oscar-winning film lauded for its sensitive portrayal of two lovelorn cowboys and their illicit passion in America's homophobic Midwest. But despite the success of Brokeback Mountain, starring the late Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, the author on whose story it was based has complained that the tale has become "the source of constant irritation in my private life".

Annie Proulx, 73, the Pulitzer prize-winning author whose short story was made into the Hollywood film in 2005, said she had been pestered ever since by "pornish" mail sent by fans offering their interpretations of the story.

When the story was published in 1999, it was praised for its delicate handling of homophobia in the ranching country of Wyoming. But her fans feel she could have gone further in her descriptions of the love shared by the two central characters.

She told The Wall Street Journal: "There are countless people out there who think the story is open range to explore their fantasies and to correct what they see as an unbearably disappointing story. They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for 'fixing' the story. They certainly don't get the message that if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it.

"Brokeback Mountain has had little effect on my writing life, but is the source of constant irritation in my private life."

The film, directed by Ang Lee, received critical acclaim and was nominated for eight Academy Awards, winning three.

Proulx's story appeared in a collection of short stories called Close Range: Wyoming Stories, which were set in a rural landscape and detailed the often grim lives of the protagonists. "Brokeback Mountain", a 64-page novella, was the most acclaimed story in the collection.

But while Proulx might be seeking distance from her story, she returns to the region in her new collection of nine stories, Fine Just the Way It Is, based on the lives of the women on the ranches. "In a real sense, women on ranches are secondary citizens. But many, if not most, would be furious if you said that out straight, They see themselves as mythic Western women," said Proulx.

She added that this would be her last collection of Wyoming stories because she did not want her writing to become too closely associated with one region.
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Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2008, 04:39:13 pm »
"There are countless people out there who think the story is open range to explore their fantasies and to correct what they see as an unbearably disappointing story. They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for 'fixing' the story. They certainly don't get the message that if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it."

Quite a slam of (some) fanfic!

It's interesting to contrast this with her quotation on our home page:

"It is my feeling that a story is not finished until it is read, and that the reader finishes it through his or her life experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts." - Annie Proulx

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2008, 11:34:22 pm »
"There are countless people out there who think the story is open range to explore their fantasies and to correct what they see as an unbearably disappointing story. They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for 'fixing' the story. They certainly don't get the message that if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it."

Quite a slam of (some) fanfic!

It's interesting to contrast this with her quotation on our home page:

"It is my feeling that a story is not finished until it is read, and that the reader finishes it through his or her life experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts." - Annie Proulx


What an excellent contrast to notice, Paul. 



Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2008, 09:01:30 am »
  2:53 PM - ’Brokeback’ author says says film is source of ’constant irritation’

By Arifa Akbar, Arts Correspondent
Wednesday, 17 September 2008


When the story was published in 1999, it was praised for its delicate handling of homophobia in the ranching country of Wyoming. But her fans feel she could have gone further in her descriptions of the love shared by the two central characters.



Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the story published in 1997?

It's things like that that make me discount the whole article. If the author can't get this very basic fact right, it makes me wonder how much s/he misinterpreted about Annie's comments and so on.

Maybe Annie Proulx really is a pill but frankly, I find it hard to believe that she would be so dismissive of the story and movie that have brought her a whole new legion of readers--and fans. Readers are an author's bread and butter, after all, and to be so openly derisive of them just strikes me as wrong. I am going to do some research and see if I can find the original WSJ quote.

LHN
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2008, 09:13:47 am »
Okay, so I did find the original WSJ interview and frankly, that comment in the context of the rest of the interview seems a little less harsh--which I suspected. Of course, those two sentences are being plastered all over the Internet. Oh well. The actual interview was done by email (since she doesn't have a landline phone at her home in Wyoming). Here's a link to the interview....

http://www.zimbio.com/pilot?ZURL=%2FBrokeback%2BMountain%2Farticles%2F26%2FStop%2BSending%2BAnnie%2BProulx%2BExtended%2BGyllenhaal&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB122065020058105139.html

and here is the question:

WSJ: What effect did the success of "Brokeback Mountain" have on your writing life, if any?

Ms. Proulx: "Brokeback Mountain" has had little effect on my writing life, but is the source of constant irritation in my private life. There are countless people out there who think the story is open range to explore their fantasies and to correct what they see as an unbearably disappointing story. They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for "fixing" the story. They certainly don't get the message that if you can't fix it you've got to stand it. Most of these "fix-it" tales have the character Ennis finding a husky boyfriend and living happily ever after, or discovering the character Jack is not really dead after all, or having the two men's children meet and marry, etc., etc. Nearly all of these remedial writers are men, and most of them begin, "I'm not gay but…." They do not understand the original story, they know nothing of copyright infringement—i.e., that the characters Jack Twist and Ennis Del Mar are my intellectual property—and, beneath every mangled rewrite is the unspoken assumption that because they are men they can write this story better than a woman can. They have not a clue that the original "Brokeback Mountain" was part of a collection of stories about Wyoming exploring mores and myths. The general impression I get is that they are bouncing off the film, not the story. There's more, but that is enough, ok?

~~~

Interesting. I wonder who all these non-gay male fanfic writers are? I certainly haven't come across m/any.

L
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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 09:37:34 am »
Wow, this thread is like oxygen.

Interesting excerpt from the article. I will go back and read it later. It is interesting in that Proulx acknowledges and addresses some of the world we have know for going on three years now. I can certainly see where she is coming from. Her story should and does stand on its on as a complete entity. What I think she is not seeing is something that is endenic to good story telling, that the characters take on a life of their own, for better or worse.

Take the tale of Paul Bunyan and Babe, his Blue Ox. They were at their time such compelling characters they were called upon by the people to populate and convey a whole range of stories. John Henry is another example. In more recent times, the Ingalls family morphed passed the written memories of Laura Ingalls Wilder to convey meanings to us.

And I still maintain that for many of us, we fell in love with those guys the first time we met them and it is hard to let them go. I think in my way I have, but I won't ever forget them.

I wish too, that Postcards would get the attention it deserves. Loyal Blood is a character that will haunt me all my days.
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Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 03:40:30 pm »
What I think she is not seeing is something that is endemic to good story telling, that the characters take on a life of their own, for better or worse.

In her Story to Screenplay essay, Annie does talk about Jack and Ennis coming alive for her

When she says:  "It is my feeling that a story is not finished until it is read, and that the reader finishes it through his or her life experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts." , apparently she didn't have fanfic in mind--ghastly, pornish or otherwise.

Of course Jack and Ennis belong to the world now. 

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 03:43:13 pm »

Of course Jack and Ennis belong to the world now. 

Exactly.

It is sort of like children. You can keep them at home for just so long, but eventually they grow up and leave.
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Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2008, 03:49:40 pm »
Exactly.

It is sort of like children. You can keep them at home for just so long, but eventually they grow up and leave.

Seems Annie doesn't want to know what they've been up to!

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2008, 04:15:48 pm »
Seems Annie doesn't want to know what they've been up to!



Hahaha, like having LOTS of sex? Together? LOL
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2008, 06:00:28 pm »
Most of these "fix-it" tales have the character Ennis finding a husky boyfriend and living happily ever after.

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

 :-X  :-X  :-X

 ::)  8)
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Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2008, 06:12:51 pm »
I prefer Ennis to have a tall skinny fast-talking boyfriend.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2008, 09:27:40 pm »

Of course Jack and Ennis belong to the world now. 

This is so wise Paul.  And, it's just a reality of creating art or writing literature.  An artist must know that other artists, readers and viewers will use their art/ writing as springboards for their own ideas and interpretations... and sometimes even for their own works of different, autonomous art.  In the world of modern literature this idea that the author has essentially no control over his or her creation once it has been exposed to an audience (any audience) is pretty common (Roland Barthes is the best example of a theorist who talks about this).


But, Annie's reaction of course is upsetting to read about, and it's been something I've been thinking about a bit all day.   Most of you know that I'm an art historian by profession, so I have some strong feelings about this subject.  On one level it's not hard to imagine her sense of protectiveness over her story.  But, my feeling is that she should relax about it a bit.  I really do think things like the phenomenon of fanfic should not be a surprise to her and should not be perceived as a threat (or something she needs to be defensive about).

Because adaptation and art and writing that borrows from other artists and writers have existed deep into cultural history.  I can think of dozens examples of artists borrowing compositional elements from other artists and then incorporating those elements into new works of art.  Sometimes the phenomenon is about a Renaissance artists copying a pose or a figure from ancient Greek art (so that there's a great deal of distance/ time between the source and the "copier").  Or, in the case of Impressionist artists there are numerous examples of artists who were friends who would exchange poses and compositions.  So, in this case figures or compositions from one artist would be "quoted" in the work of another artist (and done deliberately as a part of active exchange between friends and/or rivals).  Etc.

In writing, the best current popular example of a form of writing that truly is fanfic, but is taken quite seriously, is Wicked.   This is on my mind because I just saw the musical a couple weekends ago (and I read the book a while ago). Obviously the characters in Wicked are directly lifted from L. Frank Baum's original Wizard of Oz.  And, the author of Wicked, Gregory Maguire, makes no attempt to disguise this... he uses the name Oz, and he uses numerous other locations and characters (complete with their original names).  Writing a story that's an extrapolation on the work of a previous author is hardly a new idea or a surprise.

Even when you think about the screenplay of BBM... which was not written by Proulx (obviously)... other authors made enormous adaptations based on Proulx's earlier story.  They invented huge sections of the story that just simply don't exist in the original story, or that only exist in Proulx's story in the form of a single word or sentence.  And, they also cut out certain details (motel scene, etc.) from Proulx's original form of the story. Clearly the screenplay of BBM exists in the category of "adapted screenplay"... which, even as a category acknowledges the widespread and culturally ingrained phenomenon of artistic exchange and adaptation. 

Anyway, the whole topic of artistic exchange is pretty fascinating.  And, when you really think about it, fanfic writers are simply part of a very old tradition/ process within creative culture.


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Offline Lynne

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2008, 09:34:12 pm »
That's an excellent and thought-provoking post, Amanda.  I would have expected Annie to have a pretty thick skin about the presence of fan fiction and either disregard it entirely or alternately be complimented that Jack and Ennis have been adopted as popular culture icons.

At any rate, if we can just get Leslie and Louise to stop impersonating non-gay men (??!) and spamming Annie, she can get back to writing her own stories!  ;) :D

Edit:  And for that matter, where is her publicist or personal assistant or whoever is responsible for culling through her mail?  I thought it's a generally well-known policy for writers to refuse to read unsolicited manuscripts of any kind to avoid any potential copyright problems.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2008, 10:41:09 pm »
But, Annie's reaction of course is upsetting to read about, and it's been something I've been thinking about a bit all day.   Most of you know that I'm an art historian by profession, so I have some strong feelings about this subject.  On one level it's not hard to imagine her sense of protectiveness over her story.  But, my feeling is that she should relax about it a bit.  I really do think things like the phenomenon of fanfic should not be a surprise to her and should not be perceived as a threat (or something she needs to be defensive about).

Tell you what, this is very thoughtful, Amanda, but I have  a suspicion Annie's reaction isn't really about "art," or protectiveness, or even necessarily copyright infringement. I have a sneaking suspicion Annie's reaction is really about her feeling aggrieved and put-upon because she has to deal with this tripe, or, worse yet, merde, coming to her unsolicited, and from people who seem to expect her actually to praise them for their endeavors, or so she seems to be saying. Anyway, what kind of person presumes to tell an author that he could write her story better than she could?  :o

I think Lynne's "edit" is a very astute observation: Doesn't Annie have "people" (publisher, secretary, assistant) who can deal with this stuff so she doesn't have to waste her time on it?
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Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2008, 11:11:12 pm »
huh?  who am I impersonating?

I think Annie Proulx DOES have a problem with ownership, afer all, why would she have had her publisher send cease and desist orders to little old fanfic writers like me and threaten to get CBS's lawyers after me?  Even though fan fiction falls in the large grey area of inellectual property law, I don't have the money to put where my mouth is so I obeyed the cease and desist order, and ultimately I am glad I wrote an original story instead of hanging it on Annie Proulx's coat rack. 

What she may be missing in the exercise of creating a piece of literature of global significance, is that the world responds to it, and in so doing, creates other things that would not have been created if it were not for the original spark, and that is how culture progresses.  I believe strongly that Brokeback Mountain is one of those stories, and one of those films, that moves culture forward and gives voice to a part of American life (and beyond America as well) that had not yet been expressed, and those things others have written are part of the moving forward.  Annie Proulx probably doesn't care too much for being a standardbearer for cultural progress, because it comes with all that pesky intrusion on her privacy.  But she didn't HAVE to write the story, or sell it as a screenplay, or publish it.  She can't put the genie back in the bottle.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 11:45:06 pm »
Interesting comments, Amanda.

Many have said that the screenplay for BBM is the original fanfic and frankly, I sort of like that description. Even the description of why Diana Ossana started writing it...she said she couldn't get the story out of her head, it grabbed her, etc. I know the feeling.

L
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2008, 11:52:37 pm »
Tell you what, this is very thoughtful, Amanda, but I have  a suspicion Annie's reaction isn't really about "art," or protectiveness, or even necessarily copyright infringement. I have a sneaking suspicion Annie's reaction is really about her feeling aggrieved and put-upon because she has to deal with this tripe, or, worse yet, merde, coming to her unsolicited, and from people who seem to expect her actually to praise them for their endeavors, or so she seems to be saying. Anyway, what kind of person presumes to tell an author that he could write her story better than she could?  :o

Like I said, readers are an author's bread and butter. It is really a shame if she has gotten so famous that if someone writes something because the story moved him or her to and she dismisses it as tripe or merde. Certainly doesn't endear me to who and make me want to seek out more of her stuff to read.

On another list I am on, authors have been commenting on getting email from readers and how/when they should respond. The overall consensus is that such letters are wonderful and to be treasured and the authors respond to every single one.

Quote
I think Lynne's "edit" is a very astute observation: Doesn't Annie have "people" (publisher, secretary, assistant) who can deal with this stuff so she doesn't have to waste her time on it?

At what point does an author warrant "people"? Again, from my other discussion group, many have lamented the fact that it is next to impossible to make a living as a fiction writer these days, and the Stephen Kings of the world should thank their lucky stars every day of the week. Annie might want to remember that, too, and keep in mind that fans like us have made it possible for her to own homes in Wyoming and Newfoundland and to be be to pay "people" in her entourage.

L
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2008, 09:33:03 am »
Like I said, readers are an author's bread and butter. It is really a shame if she has gotten so famous that if someone writes something because the story moved him or her to and she dismisses it as tripe or merde. Certainly doesn't endear me to who and make me want to seek out more of her stuff to read.

On another list I am on, authors have been commenting on getting email from readers and how/when they should respond. The overall consensus is that such letters are wonderful and to be treasured and the authors respond to every single one.

At what point does an author warrant "people"? Again, from my other discussion group, many have lamented the fact that it is next to impossible to make a living as a fiction writer these days, and the Stephen Kings of the world should thank their lucky stars every day of the week. Annie might want to remember that, too, and keep in mind that fans like us have made it possible for her to own homes in Wyoming and Newfoundland and to be be to pay "people" in her entourage.

L

Let's bear in mind, I wasn't necessarily defending Annie's reaction, merely offering a possible explanation for it.

Let's also bear in mind, we haven't read the stuff she was talking about, either.

I'm not sure I get the point of your question about an author warranting "people" because at least in Annie's case, she has an agent and a publisher.  She already has "people." ???

It also strikes me that she isn't talking about "fans like us." Seems to me that she's probably had to deal with some real wackos.

Not to mention her reaction to "moving on Ennis" fanfics. ...  ;D  But that's a discussion for another thread. ...  ;)
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2008, 09:42:28 am »
I think Annie Proulx DOES have a problem with ownership, afer all, why would she have had her publisher send cease and desist orders to little old fanfic writers like me and threaten to get CBS's lawyers after me?  Even though fan fiction falls in the large grey area of inellectual property law, I don't have the money to put where my mouth is so I obeyed the cease and desist order, and ultimately I am glad I wrote an original story instead of hanging it on Annie Proulx's coat rack. 

Well, but if I were her and I thought you were actually profiting, or might be profiting, or might be trying to profit, off characters of my creation, I'd be pissed off, too. I don't see this as having a problem with ownership. She has every right not to have someone else make money off her intellectual property.

Side question: Does anybody know whether Baum's Oz books are still under copyright or have they entered the public domain? I just got to wondering about that since Amanda brought up Wicked.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2008, 12:16:57 pm »
Side question: Does anybody know whether Baum's Oz books are still under copyright or have they entered the public domain? I just got to wondering about that since Amanda brought up Wicked.

Good question, Jeff. I'm not sure what the time limit is, but I would think it had passed.

Years ago, I read part of a book called Was. It was really compelling and interesting, but incredibly depressing, which is why I didn't finish it. In it, Dorothy was a clumsy, socially inept orphan who comes to live with Auntie Em and Uncle Henry in this tiny, bleak, gray, isolated house on the windswept Kansas prairie. Em and Henry are grim and taciturn. Henry starts molesting Dorothy. Frank Baum is her schoolteacher. He feels sorry for Dorothy and starts making up lovely escape fantasies about Oz to cheer her up.

This alternated with chapters about Judy Garland as a child and a man with AIDS in contemporary times.

But the Dorothy part was the most interesting. I could imagine it happening just like that. And it made me think of all the miserable, helpless kids growing up in bleak, isolated houses across the country and what their lives would have been like in the days before anybody ever talked about sexual and physical abuse. (Though of course, it still happens now.)

Well, way OT! Sorry. I just like to think of Oz as sort of America's very own fairytale (as opposed to the other, Old World ones). There are so many dimensions to it, endlessly interesting. There's also the one where the Scarecrow represents the farmer, the Tin Man is the working man, and the lion is William Jennings Bryan ...




Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2008, 12:40:02 pm »
David Lister: Stop whingeing about your fans, Annie
Saturday, 20 September 2008


Brokeback Mountain is not a film crying out for a sequel. When one of the characters has died on screen, and the actor playing the other has died in real life, then it's best to leave well alone. So it does seem odd that Annie Proulx, the author of the story on which the film was based, should be saying that she has been bombarded with ideas from people wanting to change her story. That she says the ideas are "pornish" is perhaps not so odd. The bombardment has, of course, not happened just as a result of the story published in 1999, but because of the 2005 movie, and that is why I mention the film (starring Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger). It is the film rather than the original story which has inspired numerous fans to tell Ms Proulx how the pornish quotient could be increased.

She's fed up with it, and was quoted this week as saying: "There are countless people out there who think the story is open range to explore their fantasies and to correct what they see as an unbearably disappointing story. They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for 'fixing' the story. They certainly don't get the message that if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it."

So what sort of story ideas, pornish and otherwise, have they been sending to Annie Proulx? The new Brokeback Mountain stories on fan sites seem to range from the almost poetic "With their eyes closed, they shared an intimate moment of united longing, pain and beauty that would take a place in eternity" to the far from poetic "Your eyes are like the stars. Your touch is like the sun" to the downright opaque "They painted beautiful, plunged creative. The kingfisher, silent, did not remove his belt".

And there's the one that seems to be sponsored by a clothing manufacturer: "Everything about Jack and his jeans disturbed and tormented Ennis that summer of '63 until all he could think of or see was blue."

One fan, whose own take on Proulx's short story runs to a mere 23 chapters, sums up his opus thus: "Ennis learns that Jack is still alive from Lureen. Finds him in a hovel off the banks of Rio Brave del Norte. He learns on his way that Jack was left blind." Ah. Looks as if there could be a sequel after all.

I suppose it's easy to be either amused or, if you are Annie Proulx, annoyed by Brokeback fans trying to "fix" her story. Whether she was more annoyed by the pornish elements or by the fact that they were trying to "fix" the story at all, it's hard to know. I suspect it was the fixing as much as the porn that offended her. But I think it is wrong to mock or berate the fixers.

Writing or even just wishing for a sequel or an alternative take on a work that one loves is a fairly natural desire. Robert Altman's brilliant 1992 film The Player, a satire on Hollywood, began with a series of film pitches at a studio. One of them was from a huckster urging a sequel to the sixties classic The Graduate, as the three stars, Dustin Hoffman, Anne Bancroft and Katharine Ross were all, then, still alive and working. Cinema audiences found this hilarious, but I thought it a terrific idea, and never understood why someone didn't go ahead and do it.

Wanting to keep a story alive is not an insult to its creator. It is a tribute. Annie Proulx has inspired these fans to want to keep her story alive. And while they would do much better, to use their creative urges to write their own stories with their own characters, they have been inspired by her to write. I think she should turn a blind eye to the pornish elements, and take it as a compliment that her story has fired so many imaginations.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/david-lister/david-lister-stop-whingeing-about-your-fans-annie-936189.html

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2008, 01:02:49 pm »
I think the reviewer has missed the point. The problem with these people who send their work to Annie Proulx is that they want her to respond or review it and praise them. Annie Proulx said to finish the story in your own life, not to escape your life by rewriting the story. Brokeback Mountain is not Star Trek, it is not escapism. It is an account of how things were and are, not how they should be or we wish it to be. All we got now is Brokeback Mountain, that is the truth that we must know, realize, and accept, and stand it, if we do not know anything else. "If you can't fix it you've got to stand it." Those are the last words in the story.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2008, 04:03:21 pm »
Years ago, I read part of a book called Was. It was really compelling and interesting, but incredibly depressing, which is why I didn't finish it. In it, Dorothy was a clumsy, socially inept orphan who comes to live with Auntie Em and Uncle Henry in this tiny, bleak, gray, isolated house on the windswept Kansas prairie. Em and Henry are grim and taciturn. Henry starts molesting Dorothy. Frank Baum is her schoolteacher. He feels sorry for Dorothy and starts making up lovely escape fantasies about Oz to cheer her up.

This alternated with chapters about Judy Garland as a child and a man with AIDS in contemporary times.

But the Dorothy part was the most interesting. I could imagine it happening just like that. And it made me think of all the miserable, helpless kids growing up in bleak, isolated houses across the country and what their lives would have been like in the days before anybody ever talked about sexual and physical abuse. (Though of course, it still happens now.)

Well, way OT! Sorry. I just like to think of Oz as sort of America's very own fairytale (as opposed to the other, Old World ones). There are so many dimensions to it, endlessly interesting. There's also the one where the Scarecrow represents the farmer, the Tin Man is the working man, and the lion is William Jennings Bryan ...

You mean the politician?

Hmmm, I wonder if other epic stories got started the same way. I'm thinking of Lewis Carroll and Alice in Wonderland, J. M. Barrie and Peter Pan, and C.S. Lewis and the Narnia books. Or like E. A. Proulx and.... Fascinating insights, friend serious!
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2008, 04:05:44 pm »
I think the reviewer has missed the point. The problem with these people who send their work to Annie Proulx is that they want her to respond or review it and praise them. Annie Proulx said to finish the story in your own life, not to escape your life by rewriting the story. Brokeback Mountain is not Star Trek, it is not escapism. It is an account of how things were and are, not how they should be or we wish it to be. All we got now is Brokeback Mountain, that is the truth that we must know, realize, and accept, and stand it, if we do not know anything else. "If you can't fix it you've got to stand it." Those are the last words in the story.


Well, I think the thing is that fanfic writers don't do anything to diminish the original story.  It obviously stand on it's own and I don't think any fanfic writers think they're competing with Annie or even "re-writing" her story.  My sense is that there's a deep reverence for the original writing.

Most good fanfic I've read involves people using BBM as a springboard for very different types of stories.  Or, they use narrative storytelling as a way to work out, think about and imagine different scenarios and problems that are suggested in Proulx's story or in the film

The film itself, I think, is the major bit of evidence that Annie's story was not the last word in the way people understand Brokeback Mountain.  McMurtry and Ossana's total adaptation of Proulx's story... with imagined new dialogue and characters that don't even exist in Proulx's story... really does seem to be the first bit of "fanfic" (as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread).  A character like Jimbo would be what people in fanfic call and OC or a character that's not found in Proulx's story.  And even Cassie is a work of fanfic-type imagination since she's hardly a mention in Proulx's story.  To create such a fleshed-out character as Cassie really did involve moving well away from Proulx's writing on the part of McMurtry and Ossana.

McMurtry and Ossana really do sound like "fans" of Proulx's story when they talk about it.  McMurtry sometimes sounds sort of jealous of Annie having written BBM... when he says things like "I should have written it." or "I wish I had written it."  And, in some respects he did... given the film.

There simply is no way for Proulx, or any author, to retain such possessiveness over a published story and especially one that's so popular.  





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Offline Wayne

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2008, 04:08:08 pm »
 :D :D  Knowing that the great writer Annie Proulx read and enjoyed my work and felt that it was equal to her own would be all the payment I'd need.

A brief excerpt:

Their love had been a sacred bond, beset on all sides not just by an unwelcoming world, but by their own fears and demons. He thought of Jack Twist putting his penis inside his butt and having sex with his butt and them being two gay guys together for hours.

When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2008, 06:16:25 pm »

 :laugh: :laugh: :-\  Well, that certainly is a pretty god-awful excerpt Bud.  Yikes! 

But, there really is a lot of very thoughtful writing out there too.  So, I wouldn't say that sample is at all representative of a lot of fanfic by a long shot.  But, there's certainly no doubt that there's some bad writing out there too (I mean bad in terms of folks who really aren't so skilled at writing and also some pretty lame plots, etc.).  When you look at the BrokebackSlash main index of stories you see that there must be thousands of 'em now (and that's just one community).  So, it's not surprising that you'd find some absolutely wonderful writing and ideas along with some pretty bad stories and writing.

I just don't think it's worth fretting over too much.  Some people can't stand it, and that's fine.  And, other people enjoy fanfic, and that's fine too.  One thing though, is that it's such a big phenomenon (not only in the context of BBM, but also in tons of other fan communities) that it's unlikely to go away anytime soon.


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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2008, 09:54:56 pm »
I think the reviewer has missed the point. The problem with these people who send their work to Annie Proulx is that they want her to respond or review it and praise them. Annie Proulx said to finish the story in your own life, not to escape your life by rewriting the story. Brokeback Mountain is not Star Trek, it is not escapism. It is an account of how things were and are, not how they should be or we wish it to be. All we got now is Brokeback Mountain, that is the truth that we must know, realize, and accept, and stand it, if we do not know anything else. "If you can't fix it you've got to stand it." Those are the last words in the story.

I agree, FRiend Lee.

Well, I think the thing is that fanfic writers don't do anything to diminish the original story.  It obviously stand on it's own and I don't think any fanfic writers think they're competing with Annie or even "re-writing" her story.  My sense is that there's a deep reverence for the original writing.

Amanda, I agree with you about the reverence for the original story, but, apparently, some of these people who have been pestering Annie are "rewriting" her story--witness her comment about people trying to fix it.

Quote
There simply is no way for Proulx, or any author, to retain such possessiveness over a published story and especially one that's so popular.  

No, there isn't, but why should she have to put up with total strangers expecting her to praise them for "fixing" her own story? This is the issue that I take away from the report of her public kvetching. Perhaps it wasn't wise or charitable of her to take on that way publicly--maybe she was having a bad day  ::) --but my sympathies are completely with Annie on this issue.

I would never dream of sending her my fanfictions, much less expect her to praise me for the effort of writing them.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline optom3

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2008, 10:23:19 pm »
Maybe the simplest solution would be to not open any manuscript like packages.I find that works fine for me with bill like envelopes.O.K so I usually get a snotty phone call, but hey I can live with that.

On a serious note, I cannot believe she opens all her own mail of that ilk.Surely at least she has a secretary, who deals with some of it.Also on a serious note, much as I can understand her wanting to protect her "baby" is it not a good thing that in a world which relies so much on other media for their entertainment, the works of a prize winning novelist are, reaching so many more people, but also encouraging people to try their own hand at penning a few words.

Reading a good book causes us, to not only switch on a few more brain cells, but will fire our imaginations.On the whole films spoon feed us from start to finish(not all) I personally think our imaginations are amazing tools which can transport us anywhere. If an author does not want to be inundated with fanfic, then don't put the book out in the public domain, and categorically don't allow it to be made into a film.

Once a work is in the public domain then it is just that,public. I always thought the whole purpose of writing a book was to have as many people as possible introduced to it.If not then keep it as a private and personal diary.

Maybe as another poster suggested she was just having a bad day, I certainly have a few of those, it's called being human and fallible.I still admire the woman and her work.I do however think, from the very nature of her writing, she is by nature quite terse and has a low tolerance level for those she considers fools.That's fine, we all are different and a soft, gentle natured, and people pleasing Proulx would almost certainly never have written BBM.Barbara Cartland she certainly is not, thank goodness.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2008, 10:36:10 pm »

No, there isn't, but why should she have to put up with total strangers expecting her to praise them for "fixing" her own story?

Now, this I completely agree with.  It seems very, very odd to me that a fanfic writer would want to send Annie their stories or expect any kind of feedback from her.


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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2008, 09:09:59 am »
Now, this I completely agree with.  It seems very, very odd to me that a fanfic writer would want to send Annie their stories or expect any kind of feedback from her.

This is what I believe the whole thing comes down to. Perhaps Annie even feels a little conflicted--like maybe she thinks she should take the time to respond to these people yet resents the feeling of being obligated to respond. That's happened to me from time to time.  ::)

But in any case her quoted comment wasn't exactly diplomatic. ...

Barbara Cartland she certainly is not, thank goodness.

 ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline mariez

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2008, 10:12:40 am »
:laugh: :laugh: :-\  Well, that certainly is a pretty god-awful excerpt Bud.  Yikes! 

Amanda, did you follow the link?  It's meant to be god-awful.  It's part of a satire poking fun at the idea of sending Annie Proulx BBM fanfics. 

My mind is still boggling from the idea that anyone would send any author a fanfic of his/her original work.  It's not only brazen; but, frankly, stupid.   What kind of responses do these people think they're going to get?  And I don't think it's just the quality or the "type" of stories she's being sent that upsets her.  There is a lot of bad fanfic - but there's also a lot that is amazingly good - professional level writing for sure.  But, I'm quite sure she wouldn't like any fanfic, b/c they all change her story in some way.  Although I must say, I imagine the stories she's being sent are probably pretty horrific in light of the mindset it would take just to send them to her looking for approval. 

But in any case her quoted comment wasn't exactly diplomatic. ...

 ;D

Well, that's a pretty "diplomatic" way of putting it  :laugh:  She ain't the touch-feely type, for sure.  I love her writing, but, even though I obviously think BBM should've won best picture, not to mention best actor, etc.,  I still wince thinking about some of the statements she made after the Oscars. 

Marie
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The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2008, 10:22:17 am »


No, I didn't follow the link.  But, I agree with the point regardless... that it's an odd idea to send fanfic to Annie or to expect feedback from Annie on fanfic.


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Offline optom3

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2008, 10:45:46 am »
I think Proulx is from the school of hard knocks, as they say in England.She tells it as it is and feels no need to justify what she says. There is no sugar coated pill, but neither is there in her writing.

The only thing that slightly surprises me, as she herself says, " I was an aging female writer, married too many times" , one would assume she has therefore seen a lot in her lifetime. Writers I would guess are keen observers of human nature. Why did she then seem so surprised by the deluge of fanfic.

Offline MountainMan

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2008, 04:41:12 am »
Quote
Jack Twist and Ennis Del Mar are my intellectual property

...yawn.

Quote
beneath every mangled rewrite is the unspoken assumption that because they are men they can write this story better than a woman can

Yawn, part II. I think that's an assumption on your part, Annie....


I think Annie Proulx DOES have a problem with ownership, afer all, why would she have had her publisher send cease and desist orders to little old fanfic writers like me and threaten to get CBS's lawyers after me?  Even though fan fiction falls in the large grey area of inellectual property law, I don't have the money to put where my mouth is so I obeyed the cease and desist order, and ultimately I am glad I wrote an original story instead of hanging it on Annie Proulx's coat rack. 

...exactly. It seems like she's more concerned with preserving her characters (her story and ending) than anything else - I mean, surely it's not about the money one way or the other......either she doesn't need/want it or she could profit from "collaborative" fanfic. The interview excerpts make her sound....well, not good. Arrogant, I guess. Although I do sympathize with what appears to be her desire to preserve the integrity of her original story.....and (even tho I THINK this has prob been discussed to death elsewhere) I can understand her labeling certain attempts (ahem, slash)  as "pornish".

(for the record, I'm not "anti-slash".)

I'm going to have to read some more of her work now (I can't remember how much of Close Range I read), because every interview I've come across makes her sound incredibly pretentious. I dunno; maybe we are (I am) just bouncing off the film too much.......I feel as if she gave us this beautiful story with these incredible characters but doesn't seem to give a damn about them. I wonder how she really feels about the movie, since she didn't do the screenplay.

From what I've come across, I can't figure out her background either; it's kind of a mystery. "Hard knocks" tho, I think not - more like upper class liberal arts major (but "be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"). Some details are there, but those don't really reveal much about her as a person.....I feel like I might understand her work and her better if I knew more than the info from a few interview quotes and wikipedia.

Aside from info from good ol' wikipedia :) here's a couple old (1997, 1999) interviews:

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/factfict/eapint.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/05/23/specials/proulx-home.html

and a biography - http://www.notablebiographies.com/Pe-Pu/Proulx-E-Annie.html

Cheers!
 8)

Offline Nevermore

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2008, 06:44:55 am »
Quote
It seems like she's more concerned with preserving her characters (her story and ending) than anything else - I mean, surely it's not about the money one way or the other......either she doesn't need/want it or she could profit from "collaborative" fanfic.

Well....yeah!  She created these characters. They are hers. And not incidentally, the reason we are all here. So it does kind of follow that Annie Proulx is the authority and the last word on these characters, amen. Whether or not she is a nice, caring person is very much beside the point.
As for her doing collaborative fanfiction with anyone...look, I'm told I have a pretty good singing voice. When a coworker's stepson was killed in Iraq, his wife asked me to sing "Scarlet Tide" from the Cold Mountain soundtrack at the memorial. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go to an Alison Kraus concert and expect her to be thrilled when I muscle my way onstage and join her in an impromptu duet.
Like, Not. In. A. Million. Years. OK?
Also, if these quotes from the Independent article are anything to go by, their writers are delusional, and that's being nice, if they think they have anything to say to Annie Proulx about writing. I'm not going to make any judgements about the quality of the writing so much as pointing out what should be glaringly obvious, that none of the samples is one the same plane with Proulx, or even goes with hers. At all.

Quote
"With their eyes closed, they shared an intimate moment of united longing, pain and beauty that would take a place in eternity"


Not bad, until you hold it against this:
Quote
Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held."

I can't imagine either the Jack or Ennis of the original coming out wiith anything like

Quote
"Your eyes are like the stars. Your touch is like the sun"

considering they were

Quote
...both high school dropout country boys, brought up to hard work and privation, both rough-mannered, rough-spoken, inured to the stoic life.

Sample of realistic dialogue:

Quote
"I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this. I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin about you. You do it with other guys? Jack?"

They might think it:

Quote
During the day, Ennis looked across a great gulf and sometimes saw Jack, a small dot moving across a high meadow an an insect moves across a tablecloth. Jack in his dark camp saw Ennis as night fire, a red spark on the huge black mass of mountain.

...but they don't say it. The fact that they are neither of them the type is the crux of the tragedy. It's character, not highfaulutin' language, that makes Brokeback Mountain one of the great American tragedies. Proulx is enough of a writer that she can do the soaring language thing when she chooses, when she's doing the omniscient narrator, but when she's in the characters' heads, the narrative takes the plain, unadorned idiom of their voices.
That's where the difference between the master and the amateur shows itself most painfully. Proulx is sure enough of herself as a writer she doesn't unnecessarily display her craft, or be obscure or arcane when she doesn't need to be:

Quote
...Jack, in their contortionistic grappling and wrestling, had slammed Ennnis's nose hard with his knee. He had staunched the blood which was everywhere, all over both of them, but the staunching hadn't held because Ennis had suddenly swung from the deck and laid the ministering angel out in the wild columbine, wings folded.

The above is effortless, the following is overworked:

Quote
"They painted beautiful, plunged creative. The kingfisher, silent, did not remove his belt".

The one thing they beat into our heads in my college writing classes was "show, don't tell." "Play it, don't say it." In other words, let the character's actions indicate his thoughts, and don't fall into the trap of thinking you have to spell it out for the reader, let him come to the conclusion himself, don't lead him there by the hand:

Quote
Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Rather than

Quote
"Everything about Jack and his jeans disturbed and tormented Ennis that summer of '63 until all he could think of or see was blue."


For the record, I'm not against fanfiction, in theory anyway. But I didn't write Brokeback Mountain or the ten other stories that make up Close Range, which is meant to be read collectively, by the way, like Winesburg, Ohio or Spoon River Anthology--a number of the characters appear in more than one story, as does  the town of Signal. If I had, I might get frustrated too, that after all that work, people weren't getting it at all.
It's just like Lister's example of that script-pitch scene in The Player, where after a few "minor changes," the final product bears only the most passing resemblance to the original.
I marvelled to think anyone could be so clueless as to actually send Proulx their "improved" version of her story, but I believe she has been known to respond very sympathetically to letters she has gotten from people who have lived the lives of the characters from Brokeback, so I suppose I can see how they let their emotions get the better of them. Possibly too she used to be more open to this kind of communication, maybe even found it amusing in an appalling way, but got burnt out, especially since 99 percent of it is terrible.
As I said, I'm not against fanfiction, or slash either, as long as the writers respect the real writer's boundaries and don't take themselves too seriously. I haven't read too much of it myself--I was curious about the phenomenon more than the writing itself, especially the fact that most of it is written by women, which I find fascinating. Most of the time, a paragraph or two was more than enough to satisfy my curiosity.
There were a couple of really, really good ones that stood on their own merits, and interestingly, both were written by men and left the original story completely intact--"canon," I believe it's called--not only does Jack Twist die, but one of the writers went back to Ennis's childhood and pretty much killed off the entire town. The body count at the end was like Unforgiven--or an Annie Proulx story.
 

Offline ptannen

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2008, 02:24:48 pm »
Very interesting article about Annie in LA Times - with many references to Brokeback Mountain:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-et-proulx18-2008oct18,0,3383917.story

From the Los Angeles Times
COLUMN ONE
Annie Proulx no longer at home on the range
The 'Brokeback Mountain' author has 'had enough' of Wyoming, her prime subject for the last decade.
By Susan Salter Reynolds
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

October 18, 2008

Saratoga, Wyo.

On bridge street, few shopkeepers know the name Annie Proulx. But they sure know the title of her most famous short story, "Brokeback Mountain."
"Yuck," says a wiry older woman in the Hat Creek Gift Shop, which sells cowboy tchotchkes. "Some people are just plain strange."

"I wish I'd never written it," Proulx says at her home five miles outside town, looking out enormous windows onto the river and the limestone cliffs that define her property.

Not because of the people of Saratoga, a town she doesn't think much of. Not even because the word "brokeback" has been misappropriated, as in, "Hey, you're not goin' brokeback on me, are you?" It's all the manuscripts, screenplays and letters sent to her by men who rewrite or serialize her story, adding new characters, endings and even successive generations.

"These cover letters," she complains, "always begin with the sentence 'I'm not gay, but . . . ' They think that just because they are men, they understand men better than I do."

The story, says Proulx, spine straight, hands slapping her knees for emphasis, "was about homophobia in a place."

So much of Proulx's hard, fine writing is about place it's a wonder more people don't try to find her. After winning the 1994 Pulitzer Prize for her novel "The Shipping News," set in Newfoundland, Proulx became a fixed star in the literary constellation, winning almost every prize a writer could win.

She has often criticized the literary establishment for knowing nothing about what goes on in America outside its cities. She hates and generally refuses interviews (especially in her home). But she has agreed to talk -- although a polite e-mail from her publicist warns that she "takes a while to warm up to people." Her ferocity is literary legend, often cushioned by the phrase "doesn't suffer fools."

No one in Saratoga knows her name, not the woman who runs the gallery, the man who runs the print shop, the women at the Valley Women's Christian meeting or the men in Shively's Hardware store. But they know "Brokeback," and they know the piece of land she lives on.
It is a bit of heaven -- 640 acres with a mile of riverfront on the lazy North Platte. To get here you ascend from Laramie through the Snowy Mountains and the Medicine Bow National Forest. Then you're in grasslands. The yellow aspen do that shimmering dance beside the deep green of the lodgepole pines.

The long road to Proulx's house passes Black Angus cattle and round hay bales. Two iron ravens guard her gate. Sheets hang to dry in a perfect blue Wyoming sky. The house Proulx had built here in 2004 is large and modern. With all those windows, you can see visitors kicking up dust on the road miles away.

Proulx bought the land from the Nature Conservancy, but now she is ready to move on, at least for the winters. "I like to keep moving," she explains.

The road into the house, though beautiful, turns to mush for much of the year -- weather prevents mail and visitors, and Proulx, 73, worries about emergencies. She lives alone, with no hired help, but has four grown children who want her to hold on to the property.

"As far as I know," she says, "they've never read a single one of my books. We've never spoken of them. It's not that we don't get along, it's just that we don't talk about my writing." She shoots a sideways look that says: "End of discussion."

This look -- in combination with Proulx's short, steely gray-brown hair, bright eyes, focused attention, utter lack of makeup or jewelry, and monastically simple clothing (white cotton shirt, linen pants and brown Merrells) -- is enough to make a person think twice before asking a personal question.

Proulx has a way of waiting politely while one stumbles, mutters and reveals personal tidbits entirely beside the point. And yet she is entirely gracious and hospitable, if a bit weary of where she lives and the people she lives among.

"I moved to Wyoming for the long sightlines and the walkability," she says, making coffee in a kitchen of steel surfaces and brightly colored cabinets with antler handles. "But I've had enough."

Glossy red tomatoes, which the author has grown from seeds she got in Italy, dry on a dish towel. "They're tart," she says slyly, as if delivering a metaphor, "so they make a great sauce."

This could be the recipe for Proulx's fiction. Her new book, "Fine Just the Way It Is," is the third in an astringent triptych of Wyoming story collections, joining "Close Range" (which includes "Brokeback Mountain") and "Bad Dirt."

The first of these books, Proulx explains, "was a backhand swipe at the mythology of the West -- the old beliefs that aren't really true, like the idea that there are no homosexuals in Wyoming. Everyone here is playing some role: the brave pioneer woman, the cowboy."

Although she admired Ang Lee's film of "Brokeback Mountain," it irks her that so many men thought they understood her characters better than she did. (She has just met with composer Charles Wuorinen to begin work on an opera based on the story for the New York City Opera.)

In her fiction, she has shown more interest in men than women because, she explains, men in rural communities tend to be the ones who get out and do things. But it's also true that at this point in her life most of her friends are men.

When asked about the interruptions to her career caused by three marriages and three divorces, she shrugs. "You can like 'em," she jokes about men, "but it doesn't mean you have to sample every single one."

What fascinates Proulx, going back to her days as a history student at the University of Vermont, are cultures in their death throes. She studied the French Annales School method, which involves looking carefully at documents, receipts, census reports, recipes -- any record of daily life.

This is what Proulx does with her fiction, researching everyday lives in a place. She uses this -- although not, she says, the actual characters -- along with bits of dialogue picked up in bars and restaurants. Her life is a whirlwind of bits of paper, notes on envelopes, notebooks that cohere, tornado-style, into her tight, unsentimental stories.

For this, she needs time and isolation, so her anonymity in Saratoga is a good thing. But there is a larger problem. Writers, especially famous ones, do not make good neighbors in the warm and fuzzy sense. Locals don't always appreciate seeing themselves in fiction's wobbly mirror.

Proulx says she doesn't mind, that "writing is a solitary pursuit," that she likes to be alone. Still, it's interesting when a writer, identified for over a decade with a particular region, decides that the fit is not right, that it's time to move on.

"The downside of the writing life is that you are a constant observer of other people's lives. I was always the one at parties standing against the wall."

Proulx has another book coming out this fall, "Red Desert: History of a Place." It began as an introduction to a collection of photographs by Saratoga photographer Martin Stupich of the 6,000-square-mile desert less than an hour from town.

When Proulx went to the University of Wyoming library in Laramie to research her introduction, however, she found that not one book had been written on the desert.

Between encroaching development and extraction industries (especially natural gas), the desert flora, fauna and geology have been imperiled for decades and are now, with hundreds of roads, wells and refineries getting the go-ahead each month, on their last legs.

The book, Proulx insists, is more a commemoration than a plea to save the desert. She gathered scientists and historians to contribute chapters. All found something new, something hitherto undiscovered -- rock paintings, subspecies of plants, never-before-seen insects.

Proulx liked the people she worked with, but she is not a fan of what she calls "sanctimonious environmentalists." She seems angry at their failure to save this place. "We never, on all our trips to the Red Desert," she says, "ran into any of those people out there. How come the rest of us didn't know what was happening? There's a lot of talk and very little action. I don't like all the speeches and the glossy pamphlets."

Proulx got a late start as a writer. Her first book appeared in 1988, when she was 53 (unless you count the book/pamphlet on how to make hard cider). She says it's not really a late start if you "count the lifetime of reading" she did before she was published. "You treat characters differently when you know something about how life works -- how folks handle disappointments and wounding."

Proulx lived for 30 years in Vermont ("the only thing people talked about there was wood -- how many cords for the winter, what kind burned the best"), where she wrote for an outdoor magazine called Gray's Journal. It was the closest she has ever come, as a writer, to a community.

"There were eight or 10 of us," she remembers, "including Ted Hoagland and Howard Mosher. The journal was an alternative to the hook-and-bullet press, more in the style of the 1890s field-and-stream pieces you used to see. The pay was always late."

These days, she complains of having no writing time. "It's a big house," she says, eyeing a line of dust atop a photograph that has been bothering her for the last hour or so. "It's hard to keep clean. I read with stupefaction of men who rise every morning and write until 2, then come downstairs to begin drinking."

Toward the end of the writing process, Proulx will often work 16 hours a day. "I love shaping things, pruning out the unnecessary, shaping unshapely sentences. After things are published I never read them again. I never, ever read reviews." (In the case of "Fine Just the Way It Is," that's just as well, since the reviews have been mixed.)

Proulx believes the computer is "the enemy of careful writing." She prefers to write by hand, using the computer as "a joinery device."

"There's something about the rhythm of writing on the page with a pen," she says, "that is richly fulfilling -- like drawing a picture."

It is now hunting season in Wyoming: deer, elk and grouse. Pronghorn huddle in record numbers inside fences on private land. With their big eyes and white saddle markings, they outnumber the cattle. Roadside signs read "Open Range. Loose stock." It can seem like another planet, and people here like it that way.

Sunday morning, the little deli/cafe called Espresso Bellissima on the corner of Bridge Street and Route 130 is packed. A man everyone calls Buck says he enjoyed the movie "Brokeback Mountain."Buck is 93 and has lived in Wyoming all his life. "People's choices are their own business," he says.

Father Karl, who has just delivered the sermon at St. Ann's, says he gave a copy of "Close Range" to his brother.

"Wyomingites had a hard time with that story," he says. "I like her books -- they get you to think about stereotypes; they help you expand and grow. I talk to a lot of people who struggle with homosexuality. But that's not totally what a person is -- you have to be compassionate even if you don't agree with their lifestyle."

Saratoga seems to be run by women who cluck at the mention of the word "brokeback." Since the bookstore closed six months ago, the nearest is now over an hour away. A few beefy men are in evidence at the Inn or the Old Baldy Golf Club.

"How'd you get in here?" the woman in charge of the Women's Valley Christian Assn. meeting asks when I wonder if she knows the author of "Brokeback Mountain" lives just a few miles down the road.
Another woman with bright eyes says she's heard of Proulx. "Don't worry about them," she exclaims, gesturing at the group. Her favorite Proulx book is "Accordion Crimes."

"You'd have to be reclusive to write those books," she says conspiratorially, grabbing my elbow. "If you're out yee-hawing, you're not writing those books, now are you?"

Meanwhile, Proulx wanders her vast library, with its tall, frighteningly organized shelves. Paintings of Wyoming landscapes hang opposite the crisply framed views of the cliffs.

She plans to spend this winter in a little apartment in Albuquerque, "doing research" at the University of New Mexico. Her delight at the prospect is palpable.

She's paring down and it shows in this last story collection, which is highly sculpted. "I depend on my readers," she says, "to fill in the empty spaces." For a writer who respects precision, Proulx leaves a lot of open spaces in her work.

Perhaps she is simply finished here; finished with the house, finished with Wyoming as a source.

Then again, it's possible that being a regional writer has nothing to do with liking or disliking the region one writes about. Perhaps it's just a state of mind.

"I've often thought," Proulx says, "that if you could have an unlimited library, if they would bring you any book you wanted when you asked, it would be all right to be in prison."

Only a true writer, living in a house many of her readers would call paradise, could entertain such an idea.

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Is there anything interesting up there in heaven?

Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2013, 01:45:35 am »
Wasn't sure where to put this.  Came across it on ebay, of all places.



Annie's high school yearbook photo!


Offline serious crayons

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2013, 11:16:12 am »
Beachcombing on a small island in the Mediterranean while drinking hard cider sounds like some high-class entertainment to me.


Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2013, 12:23:28 pm »
Beachcombing on a small island in the Mediterranean while drinking hard cider sounds like some high-class entertainment to me.

Sure enough!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2013, 12:28:02 pm »
Very interesting article about Annie in LA Times - with many references to Brokeback Mountain:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-et-proulx18-2008oct18,0,3383917.story

From the Los Angeles Times
COLUMN ONE
Annie Proulx no longer at home on the range
The 'Brokeback Mountain' author has 'had enough' of Wyoming, her prime subject for the last decade.
By Susan Salter Reynolds
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

October 18, 2008

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For as long ago as Pete posted this, I don't believe I ever actually read it before now.

I will say that when you consider how unflattering Annie's portrayal of Wyoming people can be seen as being, I have wondered for some time how it is that she wasn't run out of the state on a rail long before she left it.

It also occurs to me to wonder what my new favorite Wyoming author, Craig Johnson, thinks of her and her work. Possibly he doesn't think of her at all, since he writes mysteries. On the other hand, they do have one thing in common; their stories are firmly anchored in place.

An article like this one certainly makes one think twice about wanting to move to Wyoming. I suppose they don't kill tourists--they leave that to the bears--as killing too many tourists would drive away badly needed tourist dollars.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Meryl

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2013, 04:17:08 pm »
Beachcombing on a small island in the Mediterranean while drinking hard cider sounds like some high-class entertainment to me.

I guess the purple socks would have to wait til you got back to the shack.  Sounds like the sweet life to me!  ;D
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2013, 04:46:14 pm »
Hard cider in the Mediterranean? I think it's called calvados. You can see a bit of Jack in her there...and of Heath in the purple socks.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2013, 05:50:03 pm »
I was going to say Meryl.  ;)
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2013, 07:02:21 pm »
Hard cider in the Mediterranean? I think it's called calvados. You can see a bit of Jack in her there...and of Heath in the purple socks.

Annie (Prudy?) actually wrote two books on how to make cider! 

BTW, calvados is actually double-distilled cider, or "cidre doux", and it's very strong.  Then there's pommeau, which is apple must mixed with calvados.  Annie and I could talk apples!

I was going to say Meryl.  ;)

Yes, I see Meryl in her, especially around the mouth.

Offline Meryl

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2013, 02:21:45 am »
I was going to say Meryl.  ;)

Yes, I see Meryl in her, especially around the mouth.

I think I agree with you.  The hairdo?  Not so much.  ;D

Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2013, 08:41:05 am »
awwww, that's a cute pic, Meryl!!!


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2013, 10:53:13 am »
I was going to say Meryl.  ;)

Me too!




Pretty!

Meryl, I've always thought you looked like Michelle Williams. You're triple-Brokieish!




Offline serious crayons

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2013, 01:18:50 pm »
Very interesting article about Annie in LA Times - with many references to Brokeback Mountain:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-et-proulx18-2008oct18,0,3383917.story

"This look -- in combination with Proulx's short, steely gray-brown hair, bright eyes, focused attention, utter lack of makeup or jewelry, and monastically simple clothing (white cotton shirt, linen pants and brown Merrells) -- is enough to make a person think twice before asking a personal question."

Yes, I can see how it's intimidating to question someone who wears simple clothing and no makeup.

 :laugh: ::)

Her personality does sound a little forbidding, though.




Offline Sason

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2013, 02:37:53 pm »
I think I agree with you.  The hairdo?  Not so much.  ;D



Aw...what a pretty picture, Meryl!

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline Meryl

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2013, 03:12:23 pm »
Thanks, buds!

It's been almost half a century since I wore my hair in a flip.  How did I even DO that?  ;D
Ich bin ein Brokie...