Author Topic: Annie Annie Annie  (Read 19499 times)

Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 03:40:30 pm »
What I think she is not seeing is something that is endemic to good story telling, that the characters take on a life of their own, for better or worse.

In her Story to Screenplay essay, Annie does talk about Jack and Ennis coming alive for her

When she says:  "It is my feeling that a story is not finished until it is read, and that the reader finishes it through his or her life experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts." , apparently she didn't have fanfic in mind--ghastly, pornish or otherwise.

Of course Jack and Ennis belong to the world now. 

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 03:43:13 pm »

Of course Jack and Ennis belong to the world now. 

Exactly.

It is sort of like children. You can keep them at home for just so long, but eventually they grow up and leave.
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Offline southendmd

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2008, 03:49:40 pm »
Exactly.

It is sort of like children. You can keep them at home for just so long, but eventually they grow up and leave.

Seems Annie doesn't want to know what they've been up to!

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2008, 04:15:48 pm »
Seems Annie doesn't want to know what they've been up to!



Hahaha, like having LOTS of sex? Together? LOL
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2008, 06:00:28 pm »
Most of these "fix-it" tales have the character Ennis finding a husky boyfriend and living happily ever after.

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

 :-X  :-X  :-X

 ::)  8)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2008, 06:12:51 pm »
I prefer Ennis to have a tall skinny fast-talking boyfriend.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2008, 09:27:40 pm »

Of course Jack and Ennis belong to the world now. 

This is so wise Paul.  And, it's just a reality of creating art or writing literature.  An artist must know that other artists, readers and viewers will use their art/ writing as springboards for their own ideas and interpretations... and sometimes even for their own works of different, autonomous art.  In the world of modern literature this idea that the author has essentially no control over his or her creation once it has been exposed to an audience (any audience) is pretty common (Roland Barthes is the best example of a theorist who talks about this).


But, Annie's reaction of course is upsetting to read about, and it's been something I've been thinking about a bit all day.   Most of you know that I'm an art historian by profession, so I have some strong feelings about this subject.  On one level it's not hard to imagine her sense of protectiveness over her story.  But, my feeling is that she should relax about it a bit.  I really do think things like the phenomenon of fanfic should not be a surprise to her and should not be perceived as a threat (or something she needs to be defensive about).

Because adaptation and art and writing that borrows from other artists and writers have existed deep into cultural history.  I can think of dozens examples of artists borrowing compositional elements from other artists and then incorporating those elements into new works of art.  Sometimes the phenomenon is about a Renaissance artists copying a pose or a figure from ancient Greek art (so that there's a great deal of distance/ time between the source and the "copier").  Or, in the case of Impressionist artists there are numerous examples of artists who were friends who would exchange poses and compositions.  So, in this case figures or compositions from one artist would be "quoted" in the work of another artist (and done deliberately as a part of active exchange between friends and/or rivals).  Etc.

In writing, the best current popular example of a form of writing that truly is fanfic, but is taken quite seriously, is Wicked.   This is on my mind because I just saw the musical a couple weekends ago (and I read the book a while ago). Obviously the characters in Wicked are directly lifted from L. Frank Baum's original Wizard of Oz.  And, the author of Wicked, Gregory Maguire, makes no attempt to disguise this... he uses the name Oz, and he uses numerous other locations and characters (complete with their original names).  Writing a story that's an extrapolation on the work of a previous author is hardly a new idea or a surprise.

Even when you think about the screenplay of BBM... which was not written by Proulx (obviously)... other authors made enormous adaptations based on Proulx's earlier story.  They invented huge sections of the story that just simply don't exist in the original story, or that only exist in Proulx's story in the form of a single word or sentence.  And, they also cut out certain details (motel scene, etc.) from Proulx's original form of the story. Clearly the screenplay of BBM exists in the category of "adapted screenplay"... which, even as a category acknowledges the widespread and culturally ingrained phenomenon of artistic exchange and adaptation. 

Anyway, the whole topic of artistic exchange is pretty fascinating.  And, when you really think about it, fanfic writers are simply part of a very old tradition/ process within creative culture.


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Offline Lynne

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2008, 09:34:12 pm »
That's an excellent and thought-provoking post, Amanda.  I would have expected Annie to have a pretty thick skin about the presence of fan fiction and either disregard it entirely or alternately be complimented that Jack and Ennis have been adopted as popular culture icons.

At any rate, if we can just get Leslie and Louise to stop impersonating non-gay men (??!) and spamming Annie, she can get back to writing her own stories!  ;) :D

Edit:  And for that matter, where is her publicist or personal assistant or whoever is responsible for culling through her mail?  I thought it's a generally well-known policy for writers to refuse to read unsolicited manuscripts of any kind to avoid any potential copyright problems.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2008, 10:41:09 pm »
But, Annie's reaction of course is upsetting to read about, and it's been something I've been thinking about a bit all day.   Most of you know that I'm an art historian by profession, so I have some strong feelings about this subject.  On one level it's not hard to imagine her sense of protectiveness over her story.  But, my feeling is that she should relax about it a bit.  I really do think things like the phenomenon of fanfic should not be a surprise to her and should not be perceived as a threat (or something she needs to be defensive about).

Tell you what, this is very thoughtful, Amanda, but I have  a suspicion Annie's reaction isn't really about "art," or protectiveness, or even necessarily copyright infringement. I have a sneaking suspicion Annie's reaction is really about her feeling aggrieved and put-upon because she has to deal with this tripe, or, worse yet, merde, coming to her unsolicited, and from people who seem to expect her actually to praise them for their endeavors, or so she seems to be saying. Anyway, what kind of person presumes to tell an author that he could write her story better than she could?  :o

I think Lynne's "edit" is a very astute observation: Doesn't Annie have "people" (publisher, secretary, assistant) who can deal with this stuff so she doesn't have to waste her time on it?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline louisev

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Re: Annie Annie Annie
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2008, 11:11:12 pm »
huh?  who am I impersonating?

I think Annie Proulx DOES have a problem with ownership, afer all, why would she have had her publisher send cease and desist orders to little old fanfic writers like me and threaten to get CBS's lawyers after me?  Even though fan fiction falls in the large grey area of inellectual property law, I don't have the money to put where my mouth is so I obeyed the cease and desist order, and ultimately I am glad I wrote an original story instead of hanging it on Annie Proulx's coat rack. 

What she may be missing in the exercise of creating a piece of literature of global significance, is that the world responds to it, and in so doing, creates other things that would not have been created if it were not for the original spark, and that is how culture progresses.  I believe strongly that Brokeback Mountain is one of those stories, and one of those films, that moves culture forward and gives voice to a part of American life (and beyond America as well) that had not yet been expressed, and those things others have written are part of the moving forward.  Annie Proulx probably doesn't care too much for being a standardbearer for cultural progress, because it comes with all that pesky intrusion on her privacy.  But she didn't HAVE to write the story, or sell it as a screenplay, or publish it.  She can't put the genie back in the bottle.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”