Author Topic: The mysterious "I love you" and other nearly indiscernible moments  (Read 100276 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2006, 08:09:41 am »
Well, now that I know what to listen for, I will have to spend another afternoon with the volume cranked up to 60, my face pressed against the screen, and my finger on the rewind button. This will be me:

 ??? ;) ;D :-* :) :D :( :o :o :o  :-X ??? ??? ::) :-\  :-* :-* ::):laugh: ??? ;D ;) 8)

I guess I don't know how I'd feel about it, if it was there. But on the face of things, it seems less credible than the "I love you," and I always found that one extremely improbable. But then ...



« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 08:12:18 am by latjoreme »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2006, 12:04:36 pm »
When I watched the DVD again last night, as the moment with the shirts approached, I had my nose against the screen like a three-year-old and the volume cranked. I have to report that all I could hear was breathing.

On the other hand, after nearly twenty years of hanging out in gay bars where the music is entirely too loud, the hearing ain't what it used to be.  ;D

I would say, though, that Ennis saying "I love you" out loud as he embraces the shirts strikes me as out of character. This, after all, is the guy who doesn't or can't complete the "Jack, I swear" thought out loud even in the privacy of his own trailer.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2006, 12:37:45 pm »
Well, I should emphasize that it's not so much a matter of hearing it -- and I don't actually hear those words, I just think I hear something being muttered, or maybe breathed. (Straight bars can be too loud, too!  ;D)

But it's the visuals that I find more convincing. Keep in mind that you can only see a corner of his mouth, so it's not like you can read his lips and see them actually forming the words. But what happens is: his face is immobile, then you see his mouth move in a way that he could be saying three words, then his face returns to immobility.

I realize this doesn't sound like a whole lot to go on. Frankly, if no one had mentioned it in the first place I would never have noticed or interpreted it that way. This is much harder to detect than "sorry/s'alright" or "hey, c'mere."

I appreciate you checking it out, though, Jeff! I think I will put it on again today, volume cranked, nose against the screen, one hand on rewind and the other holding a notebook. If I can find any more clues or elaborate on this description I will let you know.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2006, 02:08:51 pm »
I should have specified that I did see lip movement in the closet with the shirts, I just didn't hear anything intelligible.

OT, but last night was also the first time I caught a glimpse of Ennis's wedding ring in the motel, but only because I was deliberately watching for it rather than focussing on Ennis and Jack's faces. (God, those faces. ...)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2006, 02:34:22 pm »
I think I will put it on again today, volume cranked, nose against the screen, one hand on rewind and the other holding a notebook. If I can find any more clues or elaborate on this description I will let you know.

(Quoting myself again.  ::))

OK, I just watched it about eight times in the aforementioned manner, and my certainty has gone from 75% to maybe 94%.

He's holding the shirts to his face, lifts up the sleeve and glances again at the blood, breathes, and then ... When I said you could see a quarter inch of his mouth, I exaggerated. You can see maybe 1/16th inch of it. Just the tiniest corner. Yet you can see his lips move in what appear to be those words. As for hearing, if you've got your volume cranked up as high as it will go, as I did, you can easily hear him breathe when he's smelling the shirts, and then, far more softly than that breath, you hear him say something like "- ---- ---." That is, he sort of exhales in a specifically defined way, as if breathing three words that to me sound like "I love you." If you try yourself saying it as quietly as you can while still actually saying it, you'll get the idea.

And then, immediately after that, cut to Mrs. Twist in the kitchen.

*Sigh.* I sure would like to see the famous extended version of that scene.

If anyone else finds the place I'm talking about on their DVD and has another interpretation of this, I'd like to hear it. But his mouth definitely moves and he definitely seems to be saying something. And wouldn't that be the expected thing to say?

And Jeff, to me it wouldn't be out of character. After all, it's so quiet it it's practically a thought. (But then, you and I have previously debated to what extent he even thinks it.) As for "I swear," IMO he doesn't complete the sentence because his meaning is too amorphous, not because it's too personal or emotional.


Offline nic

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2006, 03:55:00 pm »
snip...And then, immediately after that, cut to Mrs. Twist in the kitchen.

*Sigh.* I sure would like to see the famous extended version of that scene.

 :o Oooh oooh - I have not yet heard about an extended version of that scene!!  You mean the shirts in the closet scene you were just talking about?  I have not yet developed a sufficient degree of "emotional immunity" that would allow me to watch the DVD over & over again so I haven't checked out this particular scene in detail yet.  I have a whole list of things to look out for over the entire movie - I need to set aside a whole day!  But tell me about the extended scene briefly - does anything else happen??

Please say Jack appears & says it was all a big mix up & they ride off into the sunset together...
Old Brokeback got us good and it sure ain't over

Offline Daphne7661

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2006, 04:01:11 pm »
Hello Everyone,

I am new to BetterMost, and, obviously, am a BBM-aholic!!!  I truly adore this movie and Jack & Ennis....

I have seen the film nearly 50 times so far and want to share with you what I know of what is said in the second tent scene and also in Jack's boyhood room/closet when Ennis finds the shirts.

I have watched intently about the "Come 'ere/I'm Sorry/It's'awright" and the "Oh Jack/I Love You" and I can tell you this:

In the second tent scene:

Ennis approaches the tent and goes in, but says absolutely nothing. He is a wreck. He is very nervous and jumpy. When he kneels down in front of Jack, he has his hat in his hand in front of him, but does nervously and quickly start to lean into Jack to kiss him, but Jack kind of stops him by taking the hat away and putting it off to the side. This disarms Ennis' approach. Then, Jack puts his hand to Ennis' face and ever so slightly pulls Ennis toward him. Ennis is now really nervous, so Jack says quietly, "Come 'ere." Because Ennis is so nervous, Jack now says "C'mon" because he can't get Ennis to actually lock lips right away.  Anyway, they kiss, but as soon as they unlock lips, Jack feels a pang of guilt for having "pushed" Ennis into kissing him, so Jack closes his eyes, hangs his head and says "I'm sorry." Then Jack looks up at Ennis and says "It's'awright" twice, then "Lie Back; C'mon".

In the closet scene at the end:

Ennis finds the shirts, can't believe it, holds the hanger in his left hand and with his right hand tenderly touches the pocket and says "Oh Jack". Then, he brings the shirts close to him, caressing them, hugging them, and tries to breathe in deeply the smell of Jack, (though, from the book, we know there really was no smell left). As he is breathing out, he says "I Love You."

Hope this helps....
...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2006, 04:26:42 pm »
Please say Jack appears & says it was all a big mix up & they ride off into the sunset together...

Sorry, nic, it's not quite that good. Reportedly the extended scene was shown at the Independent Spirit awards, and I guess it lasts much longer and Ennis cries harder. I've never heard of anyone who has actually seen it except rtprod. Here's a link to a long-ago thread in which it's discussed on and off throughout:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1016.0

Hold the phone! What a coincidence. I just glanced through the Chez Tremblay board and found this brief discussion, from just a few days ago:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=2324.0

So it's still mysterious. If anyone knows of its whereabouts, please post it immediately and prominently and alert everybody.

I am new to BetterMost, and, obviously, am a BBM-aholic!!!  I truly adore this movie and Jack & Ennis....

I have seen the film nearly 50 times so far and want to share with you what I know of what is said in the second tent scene and also in Jack's boyhood room/closet when Ennis finds the shirts.

Daphne, welcome! And what a way to start! Either you have much better eyes and ears than I do, or it really helps to see it 50 times (I'm only at about 13 or 14, myself). You may be new to BetterMost, but obviously not new to the movie. I am so glad you're here.

Jack says "Lie back, c'mon" in TS2?! That's news to me. Also, yours is the best explanation for "I'm sorry" we've got -- the only explanation, in fact!  :D

And in the closet scene, Ennis also says "Oh Jack"?!?  :o  :-*  :'(

Looks like I am destined to spend another afternoon glued to the TV screen, volume cranked.  :-\

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2006, 04:37:52 pm »
Quote
Jack says "Lie back, c'mon" in TS2?! That's news to me.

According to the captions on the UK version of the BBM DVD, he says; I'm sorry. It's all right. It's all right. Lie back, come on.

I've never managed to hear those last few words, and I'm more than uncertain about the "I'm sorry" - so  I did a serious double-take when I saw those closed captions, figuring that there was danger of another "what did he say" gale coming.   ;) The subtitling in the local cinemas where I live didn't have the "lie back" either - but they *did* have the "I'm sorry", though. Seems noone, not even semi-official sources, can agree about the dialogue in that scene.....

« Last Edit: June 07, 2006, 04:39:58 pm by Mikaela »

Offline Daphne7661

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Re: Saw/heard the "I love you"!!!! (I think.)
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2006, 04:38:26 pm »
Thanks for the welcome!!  I am happy to be here...

Yes, after that many times viewing this film, I think I finally was able to see, hear and distinguish what was being said by all the body language and, of course, by cranking my TV up as loud as I could....

...Nice to know ya, Ennis del Mar...