Author Topic: Canada's elections - October 14  (Read 25379 times)

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Canada's elections - October 14
« on: September 25, 2008, 12:03:51 am »
Well somebody asked about our elections so I'm including it in this forum.

I'm sure there are questions (there are already a few I intend to answer - to the best of my abilities) so please don't be shy - just jump in with your own answers or questions or comments.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 03:25:18 pm by Sheriff Roland »
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2008, 12:35:36 am »
Heya Sheriff,

Tell us more about what's going on with the Canadian election.  I'd really be fascinated to know more about it.  I'm getting kind of exhausted thinking about the U.S. election (at least sometimes I feel exhausted by it).  And, I'd also really like to hear more about the perception of McCain and Obama in Canadian political circles.  I'm sure it could provide a really interesting perspective.

Ok, First, as I've noted a number of months ago (way before he officially clinched the nomination) Canada was going through an Obama love fest. So strong was this pro-Obama feeling that (as mentioned on that other thread) the at-the-time presumptive Republican nominee (McCain) was radioactive to the reigning Conservative party. All top level cabinet ministers as well as the Prime Minister himself managed to be out of town when McCain was invited to some function or other in our nation's capital.

You see, even your Democrats are more conservative (right wing) than our Conservative party, so Prime Minister Harper did not wish to be seen in any way associated with McCain.

As for our election ...

It appears that there's yet another party that's making headways in this country. In addition to the reigning Conservatives (who are in a minority government situation), the Liberals, the New Democratic Party (NDP), and the Block Quebecois (BQ), there's a new party, the Green Party who earned only 5% of the votes last time but is currently polling at about 12%

During the last elections in 2005, the results (in seats per party) was as follows:

Conservatives: 124
Liberals:          103
BQ:                 51
NDP:               29
Independents    1

The latest polling has

Conservatives 35 to 38%
Liberals          23 to 29%
NDP               17 to 22%
Green              6 to 12%
BQ                   7 to  8%

As I've already said all parties in Canada are more socialist than your Democratic party, but the Conservative party is the only one that embraces your right wing notions about gay marriages, social services and 'smaller governments'. Thay're not talking about their intention of revising the gay marriage, the death penalty, ect. They're running on how the other parties are going to tax people more. (Heck! for about a month before the election was called, we kept hearing misinformation [propaganda] about the green tax the Liberals were going to be introducing.)

All the others are socially 'responsible'. Last time there was a majority Conservative government (during the Reagan years), it was reduced to only 2 seats (out of 308) in the subsequent election.

Already (with 3 [of just 5] weeks left in the campaining) the NDP and the Green have declared their willingness to 'work' with the Liberals, should they come up with the largest number of seats in the next elections. But pundits are saying that it's likely to end up being a majority Conservative government after Oct 14.

And THAT's depressing.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2008, 01:05:24 am »


This is really fascinating Roland.  Thanks! :)

I'm particularly interested to hear you describe U.S. Democrats as being more far right than most politicians in Canada.  But, I guess it makes sense with a more socialist government overall.

I'd be interested if you could tell us more about some of the candidates and political personalities involved.

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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2008, 01:10:50 am »
I love that it's truly multi-party.



Offline David In Indy

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2008, 01:13:59 am »

This is really fascinating Roland.  Thanks! :)

I'm particularly interested to hear you describe U.S. Democrats as being more far right than most politicians in Canada.  But, I guess it makes sense with a more socialist government overall.

I'd be interested if you could tell us more about some of the candidates and political personalities involved.



I remember watching the Canadian election returns come in on C-SPAN (I think) several years ago. It was fascinating. They have more parties up there than we do here. It was very interesting to watch.

Thanks Roland for posting this thread, and please keep us updated. I hope they will air the returns again this year, and if so, I'll be watching them! It was really fun and informative. :)

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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2008, 11:30:41 am »
Latest polls have the Conservatives support slipping (tanking?) in Quebec. And Prime Minister Harper expected to make significant gains in Quebec with his hopes for a majority government. The Bloc Quebecois is the beneficiary of the Conservative's losses.

And it's all about a mere 50 million$ rollback of funding of the arts.

See, Francophones are pretty big on their own culture. 70% of what Francophones watch on TV is made in Canada, while only about 10% of what Anglophones watch is actually made in Canada.

(from Scott Reid at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080924.welxnstrategists0924/BNStory/politics/home )

"In English only, (Harper) unleashed a demagogic rant against all them gala-going, tax-sucking sonsabitches in the fancy-schmancy arts community. Bet it felt very satisfying for a couple seconds. Then reality bit when he was asked to repeat his comments in French. He wisely declined."

So the Conservative majority might be slipping away - with only 2 and a half weeks left before election day.

On the personal level, I held my nose & voted for the Liberal candidate last time, even though he voted against his party's position on gay marriages. When Harper introduced a bill to revisit the decision (within a year after taking power), he again voted the 'wrong' way.

I'm seriously considering voting NDP this time. At least those members always vote the party platform. What's the point of voting for a Liberal if he's really a Conservative. Maybe if he loses, they'll have a real Liberal up next time. (But he's not likely to lose.)
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 07:22:25 pm »
Here's an article chastising Prime Minister Harper & his Conservatives

http://www.huntsvilleforester.com/article/117992

a few highlights:

(Mr. Harper's) disdain for Canadians isn’t new. Ten years ago when he was vice-president of the right-wing National Citizens’ Coalition he addressed a conservative American think-tank. He openly called Canada “A northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it.”

His fawning admiration for the U.S. right wing continued: “Your country, and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world.”  Is it really?  The light and inspiration that so thrills Mr. Harper now threatens to bring down the entire global economy.

.....

Mr. Harper disdains us and he tries to mislead us by pandering to people’s fears about violent crime. He promises that a re-elected Tory government will impose adult sentences on offenders as young as 14 years old.... This is a blatant attempt to play to people’s fears about a crime rate that, aside from certain types of crime, has been dropping for 15 years.

......

He continues to tell us that we are becoming “more conservative” as a people. That is simply not true. The Tories are ahead in the polls but a strong majority of Canadians (about 65 per cent) support the centrist Liberals and the further to the left NDP, Greens and Bloc Québécois.


And there's more, condemning Harper's political views that are tied (a little too closely) to the failed (failing?) economic policies that have been in place in the States since Reagan.
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 07:32:00 pm »
Tonight, while the American Vice-Presidential debate is happening (oops! your vp debate's tomorow during the english Canadian debate - sorry I got that wrong) we will have our first leader's debate (en francais) including the leaders of all 5 major parties.

Tomorrow, the english debate will be held.

As I've mentioned before, Harper's going to have to do very well tonight as his popularity in Quebec has been on the decline there, and without an additional 10 to 15 seats from Quebec, he's not expected to achieve his hopes for a majority conservative government. Tonight's debate might very well be the more important of the two.

Two weeks to go to election day.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 09:34:45 pm by Sheriff Roland »
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 01:53:03 am »
Wow, so they debate in French and English?

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 06:46:44 am »
Yes of course.

Canada was founded by two European nations and, in spite of the historic restrictions of french speaking immigration (until about 50 years ago), and in spite of the 'island of french in an ocean of english (North America)' - and the assimilation that inevitably ensues, there is still one quarter of the country that speaks french, including 1 million francophone outside of the province of Quebec. The phenomenon is called 'la revanche du berceau' which involved having french families reproduce like rabbits - frequently finding more than 10 kids in each french (at the time called 'Canadian' as opposed to 'British Subjects') families.

Yesterday's debate was geared, for all intents & purposes, to influence the Quebecois voters. Any leader who isn't fluent in both languages, can not be expected to make inroads in Quebec (and this time, it was the Green leader at a disadvantage). No party, in the past 50 years, has managed a majority government without some seats from Quebec.

Yesterday's debate was probably a forrunner of what can be expected in tonight's debate: four left leaning leaders attacking one (governing) conservative party leader.
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2008, 04:55:11 am »
With less than a week left before the election here, the economy is finally starting to be part of the discussion.

Mr. Harper has taken the position that things will be fine and that now is not the time for a new, activist plan. (Scott Reid)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081006.welxnstrategists1006/BNStory/politics

Sounds a lot like what the Republicans have been saying ... up until about 2 weeks ago.

Canada has been recording surpluses and paying off it's debt for the past 15 years or so. However ...

At least three banks say Canada may slip into recession as the world's eighth-biggest economy suffers the effects of the U.S. slowdown and the deepening global financial crisis.

Avery Shenfeld, senior economist at CIBC World Markets Inc., told a meeting convened by the Economic Club of Canada in Toronto yesterday that the best-case scenario is "just an ordinary recession.''


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=av6C8tQ84Md0&refer=canada

The latest polls have the Conservatives with a 5 point lead over the Liberals (29% - 24%) which is likely to result in a minority Conservative government.

Since we've already had 3 elections in the past 5 years, I doubt Harper will be able to follow through on his threat to make every bill in parliament a matter-of-confidence-in-the-government bill. (Which means that any defeated bill would bring down the government.)

So Harper is unlikely to succeed in imposing his hardline-conservative agenda on this country for at least another little while.

Stay tuned.

Edit:

I love this quote from the already mentioned Globe & Mail article : http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081006.welxnstrategists1006/BNStory/politics

So we all share the same failing; no one, of any ideological stripe, knows how to stop the downward spiral. That's why today we find political leaders of all stripes - from progressives like Mr. Layton and Gordon Brown in the UK to centrists like Barack Obama and Mr. Dion to screwball conservatives like John McCain and real ones like Mr. Harper - all united in pretty well total ignorance. ( by Gerald Caplan)



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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2008, 05:07:18 am »
I love that it's truly multi-party.

Last week's debates were set up as a round table affair. The leaders were actually talking to one another, not just spouting out their talking points (Oh they did that to, mind you.)

People what watched both found the Canadian debate model much more informative, and much more civilized (even though it was mostly a 4 against 1 exchange).
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 09:11:02 pm »
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hWPAi3zbqaRcQ58kiQDyw8Y-snag

New poll out. but first ...

The International Monetary Fund said Wednesday that Canada will outperform other well-off countries, but can't escape a global slowdown as the world works through "the most dangerous shock in mature financial markets since the 1930s."

Prime Minister Harper's been putting his foot in his mouth again ...

Earlier Wednesday, NDP (New Democratic Party) Leader Jack Layton pounced on Harper's comment Tuesday that the market meltdown offers Canadians "a lot of great buying opportunities" for investors.

...

The survey put the (Conservatives) at 31 per cent, the Liberals at 27, the NDP at 20 and the Greens at 12.


Looks like we may yet have ourselves a real race.
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 10:14:45 pm »
Liberal ads, linking Bush policies to Harper's policies ..., first on the Economy

http://bushharper.com/policy.html

I can especially relate to the second commercial "Same on Foreign Policies"
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2008, 03:44:08 pm »
Salut Roland.  :)
Thanks for keeping this thread going.


Tuesday is coming fast, isn't it?
I was going to opt for advance voting but decided I needed more time..
After some deliberation, I have concluded that my vote lies with The Green Party , headed by Elizabeth May .


Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2008, 05:30:34 pm »
Advanced polling - Ahh! My nearest local advanced polling place is about 4 km away. But it's all good cause I'm not completely sure of voting NDP yet - what with the Liberals having a significant surge going for them right now.

Here in Ontario, (or at least in Toronto and in the North), the Conservatives run 3rd in most ridings, and the useless local Liberal (Allan Tonks) is most likely to win, no matter how I vote. Locally, the NDP would do more that Tonks and if Tonks' numbers go significantly down, maybe he'll retire for the next elections.

You, however are in the Conservative (Tory) heartland. Who's likely to come in 2nd in your riding? a Liberal? I'm sure the plurality of your Tory MP (member of Parliament) is likely to be huge - it usually is, isn't it?

Did you hear today's Harper's 'doomsday' scenario? He's refering to Dion as 'Prime Minister' Dion. In some quarters, that dosen't sound so bad. I for one never got use to "Prime Minister Harper", but I guess that's just me.
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2008, 06:00:39 pm »
Ah yes.. I am in Tory Heartland as you say.  :)
I fear no matter what, majority of Albertans will vote PC (Ed Stelmach heads the 11th straight Tory government elected by Albertans);
The Liberals are likely to come in 2nd, followed by NDP.


Did you hear today's Harper's 'doomsday' scenario? He's refering to Dion as 'Prime Minister' Dion. In some quarters, that dosen't sound so bad. I for one never got use to "Prime Minister Harper", but I guess that's just me.

You are not alone... I was never enthusiastic about Harper either.

Speaking of Harper, what did you think of his dragging his mother's stock market woes into his campaign?
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=868805



Offline Artiste

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2008, 09:10:24 pm »
There are no real political party in Canada !

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2008, 10:25:26 pm »
Speaking of Harper, what did you think of his dragging his mother's stock market woes into his campaign?
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=868805

I hadn't bothered to read up on it. Should I?
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2008, 08:56:50 am »
Michel Rivard has produced a wonderful video using 'La complainte du phoque en Alaska' (I trust you're familliar with the legendary song?)

in defence of cultural funding in Canada. It's Sooooo funny Better than tete-a-claques!


[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhgv85m852Q[/youtube]
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 12:11:22 pm »
I hadn't bothered to read up on it. Should I?

Probably not. lol.

Here's a little excerpt that is amusing...

The prime minister admits it's unusual for him to drag a family member into the ugly political fray, but bizarre times call for desperate measures as the party tumbles dangerously into the low 30s in percentage of voter support.

"We're getting this criticism that somehow I don't understand the stock market or understand what people are feeling about the stock market," he told reporters. "I use my mother as an obvious example because she is the person closest to me most worried about the stock market these days. Believe me, I get quicker updates from her on the stock market than from the department of finance."


Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 12:12:17 pm »
Michel Rivard has produced a wonderful video using 'La complainte du phoque en Alaska' (I trust you're familliar with the legendary song?)
....

Haha.. Thanks for that laugh, Roland.  ;D


Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2008, 11:02:21 pm »
Last night, (Conservative leader) Harper ridiculed Liberal leader Dion.

I was offended to the extreme by this seemingly bigited interpretation of events. I might be wrong. Maybe Dion didn't answer the question, or was unable to focus and give an appropriate answer because he didn't have one (as is being claimed by Harper today), but

The fact that Dion (a francophone) asked 3 times for clarification as to the meaning of the question during an english interview, and then gave an unsatisfactory answer (according to pundits), is no reason to deduct, as he did last night in an impromptu scrum (Harper delayed his planned flight to present this 'evidence') that Dion was unqualified to become Prime Minister.

Seems to me, Harper's attack was more about Dion's less than stellar aquaintance with english.

This entire 'affair' is more a reflection of Harper's moral fiber

Harper is coming off as a racist with this attack. Not a quality I'm looking for in a leader of my country.

(Seems to me Harper's taking on more than just the failed policies of the Republicans. He's also using their disgusting tactics.)
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2008, 11:33:18 pm »
Friday night.

Only 3 days left before Tuesday's election (Monday's our Thanksgiving).

Wonder how the markets will behave on Tuesday ... seeing as our Stock Market's gonna be closed on holiday Monday, following a week where the TSE (Toronto Stock Exchange) tanked 16%.

3 days to election day ... and where do you think the leaders of all parties are going to be shaking hands, kissing babies and making speaches during these next 3 days? Toronto, of course.

There are 23 ridings in the city of Toronto and around 15 more in the 'Greater Toronto Area'. Ontario's hasn't really voted Conservative - not until the last elections - and even then, not one Tory seat inside the city limits. Since Harper's now expected to get fewer seats in Quebec than in 2005, his only hope is to improve his numbers in Ontario.

My prediction? Harper is going to have a smaller minority than last time. But he'll still have more seats than any of the other parties.
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2008, 12:58:18 pm »
Last night, (Conservative leader) Harper ridiculed Liberal leader Dion.

...

I know...He called an 'emergency' press conference, got reporters to watch the interview and then gave them his 'reaction' to it.
It was a rather cheap tactic. 
Most people I've talked to see it as simply that.
I think Harper is scrambling to discredit Dion because he is aware of Dion's potential over his struggling campaign.
It was low.




Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2008, 11:39:52 am »

Well, Tuesday is here at last.
I am heading to the polls after work today.




Happy Voting!  8)


Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2008, 02:06:47 pm »
Did mine about 3 hours ago ....

Passed on the faux liberal in my riding and drew an X in the NDP box.

The other two candidates are of no consequence in these parts.
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2008, 07:21:02 pm »
Done as well.



Say, Roland, do you get the election results before we do?  (what with the time difference and all...)  :)


Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2008, 07:23:17 pm »
I checked on the CBC website just as I posted my last comment:




Some voters to get results earlier than others due to Elections Act

Last Updated: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 | 4:14 PM ET


While Newfoundlanders will be able to view the results of their local elections at 7 p.m. ET on Tuesday, it will be three hours before residents of British Columbia and the Yukon will have access to those results, thanks to the Canada Elections Act.

The discrepancy in the timing of the release of election results is due to Section 329 of the act, which prevents the transmission of election results in one electoral district where polls have closed to another electoral district where the polls are still open.

Polls in Newfoundland close at 7 p.m. ET, whereas those in the Yukon and British Columbia close at 10 p.m. ET.

"Elections Canada wishes to make sure the voter who has not yet cast their ballot is not influenced by a voter who has already cast their ballot," Grace Lake, spokesperson for Elections Canada in Toronto, told CBCnews.ca on Tuesday.

It was partly due to these regulations that Elections Canada has started polling at different times across the country, she said.

CBCnews.ca begins coverage of the election results at 10 p.m. ET.

Regional CBC-TV broadcasts, meanwhile, will begin coverage of election results 30 minutes before local polls close.

CBC Newsworld will have live coverage of the election results starting at 9 p.m. ET.

British Columbia and the Yukon will experience a blackout between 6:30 p.m. and 7 p.m. PT in compliance with the Canada Elections Act.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/10/14/broadcast-regs.html


Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2008, 07:57:24 pm »
The polls here were open between 9:30 am and 9:30 pm.

I thought that would mean  the polls would be open at dif'rent times in dif'rent regions (ie, 10:30 in the maritimes, 8:30 in the prairies 7:30 in Alberta and 6:30 in BC) in order to have all polls open & close simultaneously. In this day of instant information off the net, I doubt people who's polls stay open later are not able to find out the results from other regions before theirs close, T.V. airwaves blackouts or not.

Didn't polls use to close at 8:00 pm?
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2008, 11:16:47 pm »

So...

It's pretty much sure to be another PC minority.  Harper will not be very pleased, will he?  :)

I expected to see more Liberal seats...


I'll have more coherent thoughts later. =)



Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2008, 11:28:13 pm »
Yes.

Where the rest of the world is turning it's back on conservative 'ways' (British Isles, U.S.A.), we in Canada have given the Conservatives a stronger (though still minority) mandate.  :P

Toronto's still not giving up seats to the conservatives, and the North has gone completely orange (NDP). Greater Toronto (the 905 region) has done what they'd done with Mulrony in the 80's & with Harris in the 90's - they went blue.

If the Conservatives had not blundered in Quebec, they would have had a majority government.

Toronto and the North aside, Ontario's given more seats to the Torys.
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2008, 12:38:21 am »
...

If the Conservatives had not blundered in Quebec, they would have had a majority government.

Toronto and the North aside, Ontario's given more seats to the Torys.

Agreed.


I was happy to see that the Green Party went up (even though there is a chance they won't get any actual seats).
I voted Green.  I knew where they stood compared to the other parties.
I was hoping for a few Green MPs... 


The other 'interesting' piece of info in all this is that less than 60% of eligible voters actually went out to vote.  That translates to about  10 million people NOT voting.
Makes you wonder how differently things may have turned out & why such a huge percentage of people just weren't interested enough to vote..


Offline David In Indy

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2008, 01:09:55 am »
I don't understand much of the terminology you all are using so please forgive me if my question comes across as ignorant, but do you all know who won yet? Was this an election for a new Prime Minister? I remember John Harper being elected in a few years ago. I watched the election process on C-Span although I really didn't understand what was going on. I also remember watching John Harper give his acceptance speech.

How long between the elections for Prime Minister?

I'm sorry if I sound like an ignorant American (and I must confess I am) but I'm very interested in these elections in other countries and I don't always understand them. I'd love to learn though! :D

Comcast moved C-Span to its digital line-up so I couldn't watch the Canadian elections tonight. >:(

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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2008, 03:52:40 am »
In a federal election (entire country, as opposed to provincial or municipal election), you vote for one candidate to represent your riding (or district). The party that manages to get the most seats (one per riding) elected gets to form the government. Before the election, each party already has their leader and that leader needs to get elected in a riding just like all other Members of Parliament (MPs).

Should the leader not be able to be elected (as was the case for the Conservatives in Ontario's last provincial election) he might remain the leader of it's party but he's be less effective as he wouldn't have a voice in Parliament. Whenever it's happened in the past on the federal level, he would either step down or run in a by-election in a 'safe' riding.

In this case, all 4 major party leaders (The Green are still without a single seat so they don't have a voice in parliament) were elected in their riding. As a matter of fact, all the major candidates who ran for the job of Liberal leader a year (or two) ago, won their riding.

In summary ...

There will not be a seperate vote for Prime Minister. You get one vote: for your MP. And the party leader of the party that wins most seats becomes Prime Minister, even if he doesn't have a majority of the seats in Parliament.
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2008, 04:12:14 am »
Because there is not a majority government, it is possible that we may yet have another election at any time.

250 million$

ka ching!

However, the last 3 elections have produced minority governments and this one last nearly 3 years. The Conservative thought that if they called an election now, they might end up with a majority and be able to press their agenda with fewer compromises. And they almost did, had they not completely misjudge the francophone vote of Quebec.

Before the elections were called, they were expected to double the number of seats they held in that province but instead they (or should I say Harper) fucked up (he keeps his members prety much to party line). Harper went wrong on arts funding and juvenile crime and of course, the world economy had both positive and negative effects on this election.

Mostly, I felt the Conservative ran a very negative ad campain against the Liberals (that started WAY before the 5 week elections was called). Ads that turned Dion's Liberal 'green shift plan' into 'a carbon tax'. He had people believing (through more ads than the Liberal could counter with) that the 'green shift plan' would translate into people paying more taxes. And in English Canada, that's what the message was all about.

In other words, a very negative, Republican style propaganda campain.

I feel sick.
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2008, 12:33:42 pm »



Officials deny Dion to announce resignation Thursday


By The Canadian Press


OTTAWA - Liberal party officials were denying reports that Stephane Dion would be resigning his leadership on Thursday.

There has been widespread speculation he plans to quit after losing 19 seats in Tuesday's vote but will stay on until a successor is chosen. But a spokesman sent an email saying the report in a Toronto newspaper is not true.

"This morning there are media reports that M. Dion will be resigning today," wrote George Young. "This is not the case.

"We will properly advise the media when M. Dion is prepared to speak publicly."

Dion, leader for 22 months, went to ground after Tuesday's election defeat, the Liberals' worst showing in more than a century.

Liberals were full of praise for Dion on Wednesday, but their words sounded more like a eulogy than a celebration. One insider said Dion is a decent man and nobody wants to kick him when he's down.

Party insiders said the bitterly disappointed leader spent the day calling defeated candidates, licking his wounds and reflecting on his future.

Liberals won only 76 seats in Tuesday's election, down from 95 the party had before the election was called.

Their share of the popular vote fell to 26 per cent - two points lower than the party's disastrous showing under John Turner in 1984 and only four points higher than the party's all-time low in 1867.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081016/delection/fedelxn_dion


Offline oilgun

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2008, 12:28:00 pm »
Damn!  I just now find this thread?  Man, to think of all the bitching I could have done!

David, just to add to Roland's post, except for early elections the standard term for a ruling party is 4 years.

I think it's funny that the US election is still to come, it feels like the longest campaign trail in the history of the world!  Harper called the election on Sept 7 (never mind that he started campaigning way before and even used tax-payers money to do it, the slimeball) and 5 weeks later it's over.  For a total of $350 Million wasted dollars.

Actually it wasn't all a waste.  We learned that all parties apparently hired the Three Stooges as their campaign advisors:

-The Greens, who have a strong intelligent and articulate leader proved that they are NOT ready for prime-time by having her run in McKay's riding, an inexplicably popular Tory cabinet minister, in effect losing their ONLY opportunity to win a seat in Parliament.
 
-Jack Layton, the NDP leader, was convinced he was running for Prime Minister and ran TV ads that effectively called Harper a strong leader but that he himself was the new strong, whatever that means.  ???

-The Liberals had an intelligent and compassionate leader with vision but he came across as very weak, expecially in English.

All in all, an embarrassing and depressing exercise.

The only good thing about it all is that although the right of centre only had one party to choose from - the centre-left vote was split between 4 parties - they still couldn't manage a majority government.

The left has to get its act together and unite, but we won't, lol!



I don't understand much of the terminology you all are using so please forgive me if my question comes across as ignorant, but do you all know who won yet? Was this an election for a new Prime Minister? I remember John Harper being elected in a few years ago. I watched the election process on C-Span although I really didn't understand what was going on. I also remember watching John Harper give his acceptance speech.

How long between the elections for Prime Minister?

I'm sorry if I sound like an ignorant American (and I must confess I am) but I'm very interested in these elections in other countries and I don't always understand them. I'd love to learn though! :D

Comcast moved C-Span to its digital line-up so I couldn't watch the Canadian elections tonight. >:(



Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2008, 12:39:30 pm »
Quote
-The Greens, who have a strong intelligent and articulate leader proved that they are NOT ready for prime-time by having her run in McKay's riding, an inexplicably popular Tory cabinet minister, in effect losing their ONLY opportunity to win a seat in Parliament.
 

I know.  :-\
The Greens could've had a shot for a seat if they weren't going up against McKay's riding.

There are no Green MPs heading to Ottawa...and it feels like the almost 1 million Green votes (one of those mine) dissolved into nothing.
Still, there is hope because there were over 250,000 more Green votes this time around (compared to the last election).


Quote
I think it's funny that the US election is still to come, it feels like the longest campaign trail in the history of the world!  Harper called the election on Sept 7 (never mind that he started campaigning way before and even used tax-payers money to do it, the slimeball) and 5 weeks later it's over. For a total of $350 Million wasted dollars.

I just hope that Harper doesn't attempt to call another election in another 6 months.


Offline oilgun

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2008, 01:47:00 pm »
I know.  :-\
The Greens could've had a shot for a seat if they weren't going up against McKay's riding.

There are no Green MPs heading to Ottawa...and it feels like the almost 1 million Green votes (one of those mine) dissolved into nothing.
Still, there is hope because there were over 250,000 more Green votes this time around (compared to the last election).


I just hope that Harper doesn't attempt to call another election in another 6 months.

But he has to within a year, doesn't he?

I just read in the Globe & Mail that Dion didn't listen to his advisers to not mention his "Green Shift" (aka: Carbon Tax  aka: Tax increase) during the campaign.  I guess it was hard to do when he kept getting grilled about it by Harper.  I actually liked Dion but he seemed too naively honest for the job, lol!

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2008, 01:48:14 pm »
Oops

Sorry David

I misread your question about "How long between the elections for Prime Minister?"

I thought you were asking when we were going to vote for PM (Prime Minister).

Oilgun set you straight on that one, however ...

Only recently (Harper did this) has the rule of 4 years maximum between election been in place. Often, past majority government did stretch the 4 years out to 5 years. And even once, during war time, elections were suspended all together.

Minority governments are not expected to last 4 years. In this case, Harper called the election before the 4 years had lapsed. Usually early election, during a minority government, occurs because the opposition loses confidence in the ruling party and votes to defeat it. Harper felt he had a chance to produce a majority government so he called this one. Course he messed up and we're still in pretty much the same minority government situation as 6 weeks ago ... except now he doesn't have to call another election for 4 more years - unless, of course, he gets defeated in the interim.
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2008, 01:51:48 pm »
But he has to within a year, doesn't he?

I just read in the Globe & Mail that Dion didn't listen to his advisers to not mention his "Green Shift" (aka: Carbon Tax  aka: Tax increase) during the campaign.  I guess it was hard to do when he kept getting grilled about it by Harper.  I actually liked Dion but he seemed too naively honest for the job, lol!

Are you suggesting that Harper has to call an election within a year?

The answer is no. He has a 4 year mandate, same as always ... unless he gets defeated by the opposition - something that Dion has refused to do consistently these past (almost) 3 years.
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Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2008, 02:52:20 pm »
I saw this not long ago...


Dion expected to call it quits Monday
By The Canadian Press


OTTAWA - Stephane Dion is expected to announce his resignation as Liberal leader on Monday.

Dion, who has been in seclusion since taking his party to its second-worst defeat in history, has scheduled a news conference for 2 p.m. ET Monday.

Liberal insiders say Dion has grudgingly accepted that he can't survive a mandatory leadership review vote, scheduled for May, and will announce his decision to step aside.

It's unclear if he will stay on as leader until a successor is chosen.

The Liberals were reduced to 76 seats in Tuesday's election, down from 103 in the 2006 vote.

Their share of the popular vote fell to 26.2 per cent - two points lower than the party's disastrous showing in 1984 under John Turner and only four points ahead of the its worst-ever result in 1867.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081017/national/liberal_leadership_dion


Offline oilgun

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2008, 02:58:56 pm »
Are you suggesting that Harper has to call an election within a year?

The answer is no. He has a 4 year mandate, same as always ... unless he gets defeated by the opposition - something that Dion has refused to do consistently these past (almost) 3 years.

I got confused because I thought Harper had set Oct 2009 as a fixed-date for the next Elections.  I guess my interpretation of fixed-date is different then Harper's.  I read further and found out that the fixed-date law is just window dressing:

Quote
Mr. Harper’s own fixed-election law, which set an October 2009 date for the next election, has left people confused about whether he had the ability to set a date of his choice if his minority government hadn’t been defeated in the Commons.

In fact, the fixed-date law is pure window-dressing that does nothing legally to change the prime minister’s control of election dates. The law itself contains a clause acknowledging that it doesn’t change the powers of the Governor General. (That would require a constitutional amendment.) But since those powers are exercised only on the advice of the prime minister, the fixed-date law leaves the prime minister legally free to advise the Governor General to ignore the fixed date. And the Governor General is legally bound to take that advice.
From: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Editorials/1077641.html

Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2008, 03:30:00 pm »

Possible Liberal leadership contenders

By The Canadian Press


OTTAWA - Names being mentioned as possible Liberal leadership contenders:

Michael Ignatieff: Toronto MP; former leadership front-runner. Supporters already working behind the scenes on a new leadership bid.

Bob Rae: Toronto MP; former NDP premier of Ontario; former leadership contender. Supporters working behind the scenes on a new leadership bid.

Gerard Kennedy: Newly elected Toronto MP; former Ontario cabinet minister; former leadership contender. No word on whether he will run again.

Martha Hall Findlay: Toronto MP; former leadership contender. Supporters say she will likely run again.

John Manley: A former deputy prime minister who ran briefly against Paul Martin for the leadership in 2003. He has been coy about whether he will run.

Frank McKenna: Former New Brunswick premier. A Frank4PM website has been set up in a bid to build pressure on McKenna to run but those close to him say he's unlikely to take the bait.

Justin Trudeau: Newly elected MP; eldest son of late Liberal icon Pierre Trudeau. Says he will not run.

Dominic LeBlanc: New Brunswick MP; fluently bilingual Acadian with deep roots in the party - father, Romeo, was press secretary to Pierre Trudeau, later an MP and cabinet minister, and eventually became Governor General. Testing the waters for support.

Ujjal Dosanjh: Vancouver MP; former NDP premier of British Columbia. Said he's considering a bid.

Martin Cauchon: Former cabinet minister.

David McGuinty: Ottawa MP, brother of Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty.

Denis Coderre: Montreal MP.




http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081020/delection/liberal_leadership_quicklist


Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2008, 12:01:47 pm »
I was reading this article this monrning and didn't finish it then, cause there were comments that offended me.

Was going to quote from it but found out in rereading it today that the 'offensive' passages were interpretations of comments from others elsewhere. Anyways - the bolding is mine.

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=53fc2f65-0b46-4159-badb-a160afc677c0

Harper must manage rising anti-Quebec backlash

Iain Hunter, Times Colonist
Published: Wednesday, October 22, 2008

How many times have we heard the question: "What does Quebec want?"

Since last week's election, we might ask as well: "How is it going to get it?"

It wasn't long before election-watchers crunched the numbers the morning after and came to the conclusion that, hey, Quebec doesn't matter any more.

By plumping for the Bloc Québécois, the voters in that province seemed to be assuming that another minority government would be elected and that it would be weak enough to need Bloc support to survive, and have to pay for it.

Well, it turns out that the Conservatives can survive very well without Bloc support. The party can't make a difference even in alliance with either the Liberals or the New Democrats: It will take the combined will of all three opposition parties in the Commons to force another election -- should any of them be inclined to do so any time soon.

Stephen Harper is better with the arithmetic of this minority parliament than Joe Clark was with the one he had: He can afford to govern as if he has a majority, until he gets tired of it all again and pulls the plug.

I've seen the lament of newspaper columnists and academics that Quebec has turned its back on playing a role in the government of the nation in this election. That after all Canada has done for it -- righting a "fiscal imbalance" that was a fiction, giving anyone who wants to claim it the right to belong to a Quebec nation inside "a united Canada," whatever that means -- Quebec has given the rest of us the one-fingered salute.

Who could have thought that something as inconsequential as the Conservatives' cancelling a few so-called artists' travel grants or threatening to crack down on violent juvenile criminals could have made such a difference?

How could these issues have turned off Quebecers from voting for the party that was almost sure to be returned as the government in Ottawa with the cash to meet whatever demands that they might make, right whatever wrongs they perceived?

After all, aren't there artists in other parts of Canada? Are juvenile criminals confined to Quebec?

I've also seen disturbing letters to the editor and the remarks of blogheads reminiscent of nastier times in the past. They suggest that Quebec should be made to pay for backing a party content to live off the perks of a country it doesn't recognize.

The government must stop catering to Quebecers' "entrenched tribalism." No more should the "French tail" be allowed to wag the "English dog."

And, most disturbing of all, that it's now the turn of "the West," toward which the weight of Conservative support has shifted.

I've never approved of the extent to which successive prime ministers lately have pandered to the demands of regions and provinces at the expense of strong central government, though pretending that one size should fit all is absurd in a country as vast and diverse as ours.

I've never liked the way national cost-sharing formulas are negotiated and then wrecked by side deals that are more politically motivated than anything else. And I hate the way our provinces are described as "haves" or "have-nots," as if there aren't wealthy people in poor provinces and poor people in wealthy ones.

And I feel sorry for all of us that people get so upset when they see the English dog chasing its French tail. It's a splendid tail, and it should wag, not droop.

I was present in that old railway station in Ottawa when we put our nation on its new, independent track, but left Quebec as an unwilling caboose at the end, and its prime minister [sic] an emotional wreck. I still think that what I regarded as the mother country could have done more to make us try again before succumbing to Pierre Trudeau's advice to hold its nose and pass the bill that left Quebec alone.

I was present, too, when so many Quebecers' hopes sank in Meech Lake and were lost in Charlottetown.

It doesn't surprise me that people in Quebec have a different view of our union than, say, Albertans, or that what happens in Quebec City, as voter turnout in provincial elections shows, is more important to them than what happens in Ottawa.

Some loyalties have no price.
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2008, 12:06:31 pm »
I'll be moving this thread to 'My Great White North' blog later this week.

a redirect will be left behind in this forum (but based on recent posting rates, that notice may not stay on the first page two days!  :-\ )
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2008, 12:22:58 pm »
I'll be moving this thread to 'My Great White North' blog later this week.

a redirect will be left behind in this forum (but based on recent posting rates, that notice may not stay on the first page two days!  :-\ )


Roland, just want you to know I've been reading this thread.  I'm so unknowledgable though, that I've had nothing to add.  But I look at it every time there is something new, so thanks for having it here as long as you have.

Offline Lumière

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2008, 12:27:20 pm »
I'll be moving this thread to 'My Great White North' blog later this week.

a redirect will be left behind in this forum (but based on recent posting rates, that notice may not stay on the first page two days!  :-\ )

LOL.
Yeah, I've had to dig for it three or four pages deep in the past.


This latest article you posted Roland, are those all (particularly the bolded bits) Harper's comments?


Edit: Just saw your note here:  :)
Quote
Was going to quote from it but found out in rereading it today that the 'offensive' passages were interpretations of comments from others elsewhere. Anyways - the bolding is mine.


Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Canada's elections - October 14
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2008, 12:34:31 pm »
This latest article you posted Roland, are those all (particularly the bolded bits) Harper's comments?

None of it is Harper's.

The first (offensive) bit is the article's author's synthesizing of some comments he's come across, while the last two bolded-up parts are from the author of the piece, Ian Hunter
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