Strange or puzzle unthought of, unsolvedWhy did Aguirre hire Jack a second time?

[Artiste]

         Strange or puzzle unthought of, unsolved: Why did Aguirre hire Jack a second time?                     [/b]

Why?

What do you think? Do tell...  as you please.

......

And if you are a Guest, and if you want to post, you have to be a member in order to post, I am told.

Bienvenue, that's welcome ! If you have any trouble, you can find my private email address on this site, and so emailing me with the title TROUBLE would help !


What do you think too ? 

I can only see many pros and cons about this subject!

Do you have a reason or thought about this?

[tampatalon]

Jack prolly did his job the first time without stemming any roses.

TampaTalon^">

[Artiste]

Merci  tampatalon !

You lost me... and you can detail, please.

Wasn't Jack his second time, hired by Aguirre?

So what do you think happened the first time?

Did Aguirre have a crush possibly on Jack the first and second time he hired Jack?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Front-Ranger]

I agree with tamp that Jack might have done nothing to arouse Aguirre's ire the first summer, or at least not got caught at it. Although Aguirre wasn't happy with the results of the previous summer, with nearly 25% loss, he probably realized it was not Jack's fault (there was a lightning storm).

But I think the real reason was because he had no choice. Ennis and Jack were the only two people who applied for the job. Even today there are only about 500,000 people in all of Wyoming (as Annie Proulx said in her most recent interview which you can listen to here on BetterMost) and many of those were opposed to sheep herding and favored cowboying instead. Working on the oil rigs was much more lucrative than sheepherding and it meant that young men must sacrifice their whole summer without even a chance of getting to town on their day off. Road construction, farming and ranching, coal mining, forestry and other work in the resource-rich state of Wyoming attracts most other able-bodied boys and men.

And let's not forget the draft which was taking away young men nearly as fast as they could be produced!

[Artiste]

Merci beaucoup, yes thanks very much Front-Ranger!

You post details well the probability that it was difficult for Aguirre to find help !

Considering that you say:
        I agree with tamp that Jack might have done nothing to arouse Aguirre's ire the first summer, or at least not got caught at it.             

Front-Ranger, I can see that since Jack was working alone that first year; so, he had no one to have a crush on, except maybe have sex with one passing ? And if that did happen once or more then that first year,  likely Aguirre did NOT see it, and so hired Jack a second time!

.......................

But it is still puzzling that Aguirre saw Jack and Ennis have fun and still kept them working both for a few weeks; and, maybe as soon as he had a chance such as that upcoming storm, then he got rid of his two hired hands !! Then, Aguirre would be straight or bisexual!

But I think that Aguirre talks like a French-Canadien man to Jack first and second time, telling him mildly about Jack's fun; that Aguirre does not talk about to Jack like John Wayne would slapping or beating him up?? Why?

To me, Aguirre is therefore bisexual or gay, reacting and acting towards Jack !!

............

It remains that does Aguirre have a crush on Jack in order to hire him a second time?

.......

There are also other puzzling things about this !

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Front-Ranger]

I don't think Aguirre had a romantic interest in Jack; otherwise, he would have hired him a third time, rather than send him off with his tail between his legs, hehe! Better yet, he would have hired Jack but not Ennis and gone up the mountain with him! No, I think Aguirre was purely interested in getting the sheep herding job done. Who knows what his private life was like? I suspect there was a Mrs. Aguirre or a bf or gf who dialed him up while he was finishing up the hiring process. But we just don't know, and it doesn't matter what the gender was. In fact, that's one of the big points of the story/movie: in spite of Ennis' fears, nobody really cared or represented a real threat to Ennis and Jack being together. Others have pointed this out before, but I will repeat it. At the end of the movie, quite a few people knew about Ennis and Jack's relationship, but no one did anything to stop it or to hurt them. Ennis' fears were ungrounded but that didn't stop him from putting his and Jack's lives on hold.

 

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger !

May I disagree in many ways to some or all your points in your recent post ?

You want some infomation?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Front-Ranger]

yes, certainly, I would like to know your point of view!

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger,

One of the points is the following about your certainty of no danger, since you say:
              At the end of the movie, quite a few people knew about Ennis and Jack's relationship, but no one did anything to stop it or to hurt them. Ennis' fears were ungrounded but that didn't stop him from putting his and Jack's lives on hold.

                   
..........

Front-Ranger, are you forgetting that two men did talk about Jack being gay, right in front of Jack's wife ?
I might be wrong, but didn't that happen in the movie?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Front-Ranger]

Front-Ranger, are you forgetting that two men did talk about Jack being gay, right in front of Jack's wife ?
I might be wrong, but didn't that happen in the movie?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Well, they called him a pissant...but that's not the same as calling him gay. And they never did anything to hurt him as far as the movie goes.

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger,

They calling Jack a pissant, were using a derogatory word !  Surely!

It did not help Jack's reputation, did it ?

But such bad  mouths increase Jack reputation so that a group would hurt him physically or even murder him for such so-called fun ? Does that happen ?

Au revoir,
hugs!  I can not find pissant in either of my French nor English dictionaries, can you?

[chowhound]

Hi Artiste,
    I'm curious as to why you see Aguirre as French-Canadian. Is there something specific you are suggesting by making him French Canadian? More tolerant, maybe?
    His marital status, I agree, is unclear. However, if you look closely at that shot of him where he has both his hands on his desk, it could be a wedding ring or wedding band that he's wearing.
    In his own way he does show tolerance when he sees Jack and Ennis through his binoculars. This is clearer in the short story than in the film but in both he allows a fair amount of time to pass before he rides up to deliver his message to Jack. And, of course, in so doing he doesn't even hint at what he has seen.

[Artiste]

Merci chowhound !

Your surprising post is welcomed !

Yes, Aguirre, to me, does possess French-Canadien traits, as being more tolerant, especially to gays!

Quebec was likely the first to allow such freedom for gays... in North America. Maybe that is so, because many French-Canadiens were woodsmen, called bûcherons ! They went in the bush for months especially during Winter and since no women were present, many bucherons had their male lovers, of course! And back home, if he had a wife, which one had to have according to church and society as well as for other reasons such as leaving his male son the farm once departed, she accepted that gladly!

Plus, the French had been tortured when they arrived in North America, back home, and here too by the waether, etc., and they had no women neither! And, once women arrived for some, the First French-canadien borns learned to live with the First Nations here, peacefully! It was the First Nations like the Montagnais, Hurons, Ojibways, etc., that thought them proper foods to srvive with... etc., and democraties. From France, the French did what the king told them to do and so democratcy, which was to come back for a vote by the people was a new thing to do. Minorities became therefore important too, for peace; so gays were of importance too and accepted more readily!


Maybe that are some reason why I figure that Aguirre is acting French-canadien! And, let us not forget that French-canadien did open up that Brokeback Mountain are, like the Grands Tetons were named by them!

Aguirre does show tolerance, yes, till he found again that Jack with Ennis did lost sheeps again, as we know that some are missing; but as much as the First year Jack worked there? Does it seems not as much!

I will try to see that ring, if that is it, as you suggested ! Any proof of that?

Au revoir,
hugs!  I still figure too that Aguirre is gay or bi... but will we find out? But he does hint to Jack what he has seen in his binoculars !! ??

[Front-Ranger]

They calling Jack a pissant, were using a derogatory word !  Surely!

Don't call me Shirley! (just kidding!) There is an interesting discussion of the pissant scene that ToOp/Bruce brought over here from IMDB:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,10712.0.html

hugs!  I can not find pissant in either of my French nor English dictionaries, can you?

It's in some dictionaries. I have it on good authority that the word is French! How do I know this? Because the nasty French guards used that word in the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail and the play Spamalot!! 

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger,

encore!

For now, here is a quote from what you give via TOop/Bruce, someone that replied to him:

Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by Matthew78   (Thu Sep 7 2006 11:35:53 )   
   
UPDATED Thu Sep 7 2006 11:39:25
In Lureen's Office those two Farmers called Jack Twist a Pissant when he was showing the Companys Farm Equipment to the Farmers and Ranchers, But why did they do that? Jealous of Jack being a Rodeo Cowboy when they were both too pathetic to be allowed to do it or they got thrown off of the Bulls and he could actually ride a long time when they couldnt? or they just didnt think that he was very Macho, And Lureens Father didnt like Jack either, Football sucks anyway, Just another small minded Redneck whos never been off the Farm IMHO.

An Eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind-Mahatma Gandhi

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by BannerHill   (Thu Sep 7 2006 11:50:13 )   
   
Pissant seems to be a regional expression. It implies being inconsequential, someone not to be taken seriously. A modern equivalent might be 'wannabe'

It is interesting to me that Ang Lee went to the effort to film this scene and show Lureen's reaction. I estimate it must have taken half a day of production in order to film this scene. That translates to approximately $50,000.

What does it mean?

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by malina-5   (Thu Sep 7 2006 12:17:19 )   
   
<<What does it mean?>>

It allows us to fill in information about Jack's life with Lureen. Notice Lureen's face as that comment is made. She doesn't like it, but she won't say anything to defend Jack. He's her husband, and LD Newsome and co. feel comfortable calling him a pissant right in front of her. It gives a context to the Thanksgiving scene. LD is speechless when Jack actually stands up to him, asserts that this is his home and his child. Lureen is pleased.

Lureen is an interesting one...

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by NewHorizons37   (Thu Sep 7 2006 12:19:57 )   
   
UPDATED Thu Sep 7 2006 12:51:52
I too originally thought that one of the men calling Jack a pissant in front of Lureen was LD Newsome, but neither of them are. It is two customers having a conversation between themselves. It's still telling that Lureen would not say anything.

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by malina-5   (Thu Sep 7 2006 12:41:48 )   
   
<<I too thought that one of the men calling Jack a pissant in front of Lureen was LD Newsome,>>

Wow! I really thought it was! Isn't it LD who says, "he used to try"?
I'll have to watch again i guess.

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by LauraGigs   (Thu Sep 7 2006 12:20:42 )   
   
Those men were customers at the business. Lureen didn't feel it was appropriate to argue with them. (Not worthwhile anyway, since they are basically rednecks as Matthew said.)

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by BannerHill   (Thu Sep 7 2006 12:50:56 )   
   
That wasn't Lureens FATHER calling Jack a pissant, was it?

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by tillerman-1   (Thu Sep 7 2006 13:42:53 )   
   
No it wasn't Lureens father. But I always thought he must have been a friend of L.D's. He looks at her when he says "He use to try"(they both must have knowen she was married to Jack)so he was bringing her into the conversation and in a way letting her know that everyone thinks Jack is a pissant. Lureen, wisely (IMO) doesn't say anything.

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by Santinos_Bridesmade   (Thu Sep 7 2006 13:45:06 )   
   
What was wise about it? They had no right to say that about Jack. Lureen should've defended him.

"The bitterest tears shed over graves are for words left unsaid and deeds left undone."

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by tillerman-1   (Thu Sep 7 2006 15:38:06 )   
   
Why??? Did Jack seem like he needed someone to defend him...... To me he didn't seem to care what anyone thought of him (besides Ennis).


"People will believe anything when it's said in a whisper."

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by Santinos_Bridesmade   (Thu Sep 7 2006 12:19:08 )   
   
UPDATED Thu Sep 7 2006 12:20:31
Because they were @ssholes and Lureen was a spineless jellyfish who wasn't willing to defend her own husband. I never liked Lureen at all. She didn't deserves Jack at all.

How did Jack put up with her and her father for so long? Poor guy. No one appreciated Jack, not Lureen, not L.D., not even Ennis.

"The bitterest tears shed over graves are for words left unsaid and deeds left undone."

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by jshane2002   (Thu Sep 7 2006 16:51:52 )   
   
I haven't been on this board for several months but there are previous posts where some Texans who write here explained that "pissant" refers to a nobody or a ne're-do-well.

My own take on that scene ( feel free to contribute differing opinions ) :



I've always thought that one of the Texans in that dealership is the same guy who was the announcer at the rodeo. The guy looks and sounds like the announcer anyway and Childress is such a small town.

Since Childress is so small it seems likely the LD Newsome and his pretty daughter would be well known. They might even be LD's buddies and are just making up the conversation for Lureen's benefit. Jack landed himself a nice meal ticket when he married Lureen and a small town like Childress probably dishes up the details about Lureen's marriage of convenience.


"Hell, Lureen's dad has practically said he pay me a down payment just to leave." -- Jack

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by NewHorizons37   (Thu Sep 7 2006 18:22:34 )   
   
I've always thought that one of the Texans in that dealership is the same guy who was the announcer at the rodeo.

Hmm, you got me curious, so I checked the credits. There is an Announcer as well as Farmer #1 and Farmer #2, all played by different men.

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by BannerHill   (Fri Sep 8 2006 13:50:49 )   

From a business point of view, it makes sense that Lureen didn't rush to Jack's defense. Maybe they were customers. No reason to kill a deal because of a petty offense. She wasn't going to come down on them, but she wasn't too pleased either. Really it's the begining of her bitterness. She becomes resigned while Jack does his own thing. Sad, really

Re: Why did those Farmers call Jack a Pissant?   
  by ScissorhandsRaineyluv   (Fri Sep 8 2006 15:15:50 )   
   
I've been thinking a lot about that line actually..."Hey, didn't that pissant used to ride bulls?" "He used to try."Ok, so I've always wondered, does this scene too have a deeper meaning? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "riding bulls" have gay undertones? So, er...were those two men implying that Jack used to try and pick up men, but was constantly rejected? This would also contribute to Jack not having friends because of his reputation there. That might also explain Lureen's behavior in that scene.She is confronted (maybe again...?) that there is a possiblity that Jack isn't who she thinks he is, so she looks ashamed and embarassed, and without saying a word she quickly goes back to working while shaking her head.

So does anyone else agree that the 'pissant' scene is referring to more than just rodeoing, ....)

......

And I plan to quote others too.

Later... as I have an interview rightnow.


Au revoir,
hugs! Any other news ? Does pissant maybe have a double or triple meanings

[Artiste]

Why did Aguirre hire Jack the second time ?

[Front-Ranger]

As to your question about the double meaning of pissant, I can think of three possible meanings. It can be a small insignificant creature. It could be a corruption of the word peasant. It could also mean "one who is pissed upon" and we know from the story that Jack was indeed, pissed upon by his father, no less.

[Artiste]

Merci encore Front-Ranger !

Your post reveals a derogatory term that some film charactors did described Jack as being... as pissant in this Brokeback Mountain movie.

Of course to anti-gay persons, Jack is an insignificant small creature ! And they would glady likely place their feet on him... given a chance, like they kill bugs!

And such persons with one track criminal minds think that Jack is a peasant, and, therefore, can be ruled as to enslave, and Jack would have no freedom nor rights to life... since he is seen as a gay man by some !

And if his father or Mr. Twist who raised Jack we think, pissed on him, it does denotes twisted raising as well as agravation, enslavering, belittling, etc., as to bash him with urine; isn't that a form of TORTURE ?

I don't remember if Jack called Mr. Twist: father ! Did he use that word in the movie ? In Annie's story ?

Au revoir,
hugs, and have a wonderful day ! Awaiting your news !

[Front-Ranger]

I don't remember if Jack called Mr. Twist: father ! Did he use that word in the movie ? In Annie's story ?

Actually, friend Artiste, Jack called his father, "Daddy" in the film. It is truly a case of "the devil you know."

 

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger,

intéressant ! Yes, your post is interesting !

Since Jack said daddy to describe Mr. Twist, then that is a term of endearment ?

Did Jack always say: Daddy ?

And is there a difference between father and daddy, possibly ??


Au revoir,
hugs !   Words are important !

[Artiste]

Even to-day, I would like to know if anyone has an answer to this question, I posed !

[chowhound]

Merci Front-Ranger,

intéressant ! Yes, your post is interesting !

Since Jack said daddy to describe Mr. Twist, then that is a term of endearment ?

Did Jack always say: Daddy ?

And is there a difference between father and daddy, possibly ??


Au revoir,
hugs !   Words are important !

Hi Artiste.
    For me, the difference between "daddy" and "father" in spoken English is one of formality, with "Daddy'"(or more often. "dad"), being less formal than "father". It may also be a class marker but I'm not sure if functions that way in spoken American English as it can in spoken British English.
    The first time Jack uses "daddy" is fairly early on. This is during the painful parting from Ennis after they've come down from Brokeback and are about to separate:

Jack: Might go up to my daddy's place, give him a hand through the winter.

Maybe he uses "daddy"" after that but I can't remember. Ennis calls his father "daddy" when he tells of how he was taken by him as a young boy to looks at Earl's murdered body and Lureen calls her father "daddy" during the Thanksgiving scene. Both Alma Jr and Jenny call Ennis "daddy", so it seems to be the standard form of address for both generations.

As far as your other question about why Aguirre hires Jack for a second summer, I think Front-Runner has said all that needs to be said. Essentially Aguirre has no choice. The agency has sent him these two and he clearly doesn't have the time to reject one and wait for a replacement even if a replacement was available at this late stage which it well might not have been. However, it might be worth noting that he shows no signs of disquiet once he sees it's Jack who's one of the pair and shows every sign of being prepared to hire him for a subsequent summer. However, he does make Jack the one who has to sleep with the sheep and thus make him more responsible for the final count than Ennis.

[Artiste]

Merci chowhound !

I note that you say:
       However, it might be worth noting that he shows no signs of disquiet once he sees it's Jack who's one of the pair and shows every sign of being prepared to hire him for a subsequent summer. However, he does make Jack the one who has to sleep with the sheep and thus make him more responsible for the final count than Ennis.                 
......

Chowhound (and others too), I am surprised by this. By seeing your expression that Aguirre shows no sign of diquiet seeing Jack in order to hire him a second time, and to me, Aguiire shows more than that, beyond maybe that (too) ! I seem these days come to think that Aguirre has a relationship with the Twists and/or Jack, and maybe Aguirre is a relative ?

May I suggest that for now ? What do you think ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[chowhound]

Merci chowhound !

I note that you say:
       However, it might be worth noting that he shows no signs of disquiet once he sees it's Jack who's one of the pair and shows every sign of being prepared to hire him for a subsequent summer. However, he does make Jack the one who has to sleep with the sheep and thus make him more responsible for the final count than Ennis.                 
......

Chowhound (and others too), I am surprised by this. By seeing your expression that Aguirre shows no sign of diquiet seeing Jack in order to hire him a second time, and to me, Aguiire shows more than that, beyond maybe that (too) ! I seem these days come to think that Aguirre has a relationship with the Twists and/or Jack, and maybe Aguirre is a relative ?

May I suggest that for now ? What do you think ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Hi Artiste,
   I'd be very surprised to find out that Aguirre is a relative of the Twists. Where is the evidence? It's true, Aguirre undertakes the arduous journey up Brokeback to tell Jack that his Uncle Harold is in hospital but I assume that is because Mrs Twist asks  him to do so not because he is her relative. No, I think we must assume that the first time Aguirre set eyes on Jack Twist was when he worked for Aguirre the previous summer.

[Artiste]

Merci chowhound !

So, it is not still clear that Aguirre is or is not an relative of Mrs. or Mr. Twist ! I wonder if Annie did give any clue to that?

And may I ask, why did Aguiire hire Jack a second time, since it seems that there was great deal of lost of sheeps the first year Jack worked for him ? Plus, now, instead hiring only Jack, Aguiire hires two hands, which makes it more expensive for Aguirre ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

I still can't see why Aguirre hired Jack a second time ! Can you ?

[Artiste]

I don't think that there is a simple answer to this ! Even to-day, I think the answer is a complexe one.

What do you think ?

[ifyoucantfixit]

       Regards the term "pissant,"  it is a common term in the southwest.  It is a reference to a very tiny ant.  They commonly called sugar ants also.
The reference is to the size of them, being smaller than the regularly seen and customary sized ants,found  in greater abundance.  They are the smallest and
mostly just a nuisance, they are easily gotten rid of.  They tend to be the kind of ant that is most found entering houses, and becoming a "small" insignifiicance but mainly a nuisance..  Therefor not worthy of a lot of effort or worry.  Unlike the larger and more dangerous type of ants.   
     It primarily is saying that a person you call by that name, is of little or no significance.  Harmless for the most part, and easily gotten rid of.  And rather
transitory.

    I used to hear that term a lot during my growing up years.  Most often referring to transient workers on farms etc.  It was in no way at all, referring
to his sexual orientation.

    I agree with the way others here have said they think about Aguirre hiring Jack for the following year.  He had no other men to do the job.  He
Had not been sufficienty negligent the previous year, to disallow him being rehired for the next.. He knew that the loss of sheep due to the
lightning storm was not Jack's fault.  I  am also familiar with men in his position.  They tend to blow off steam with little provocation, in order to
release their own frustrations.  Those reasons can be well shown, because of things like the weather and the trials of happenstance.  It is at least,
a frustrating job he has.  It doesn't excuse him for being such a ridiculous bore however.

[Front-Ranger]

Janice,