Author Topic: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll  (Read 3232775 times)

Offline Bigheart

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3760 on: September 11, 2006, 04:21:47 pm »

Offline Bigheart

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3761 on: September 11, 2006, 04:23:06 pm »
Hah hah!  I was angry, too!  But I forgave him pretty quick...
Me too! But I can never stay angry with Ennis for long! Never.

Offline opinionista

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3762 on: September 11, 2006, 05:30:12 pm »
I just thought of a saying in Spanish (not sure if it is said in English as well) that IMO describes what's going on between Ennis and Ellery, and especially with Ellery in this book: The darkest moment of the night is the closest to daybreak. Ellery is at a turning point of his life, at the darkest moment, right before a new sunrise, so it's no wonder he's having all these doubts and fears. Ennis is too, but he had been on that road before, and he has been cleaning his soul for sometime before meeting Ellery, so he is calmer now. But Ennis also met his demons, and got all irrational just like Ellery is now. I know this is just a story, but this is what happens when we find ourselves at a turning point in our lives, and when we really want to change and clean our souls.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline pastorfred

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3763 on: September 11, 2006, 08:09:12 pm »
I just thought of a saying in Spanish (not sure if it is said in English as well) that IMO describes what's going on between Ennis and Ellery, and especially with Ellery in this book: The darkest moment of the night is the closest to daybreak. Ellery is at a turning point of his life, at the darkest moment, right before a new sunrise, so it's no wonder he's having all these doubts and fears. Ennis is too, but he had been on that road before, and he has been cleaning his soul for sometime before meeting Ellery, so he is calmer now. But Ennis also met his demons, and got all irrational just like Ellery is now. I know this is just a story, but this is what happens when we find ourselves at a turning point in our lives, and when we really want to change and clean our souls.

There is a saying in English, Natali, and I think it's just the same: "The darkest hour is just before dawn." In deserts and mountains, the coldest hour is then, too!

I think you are quite right about Ennis and Ellery. This moment is challenging for them, but they'll make it. I have faith in the two of them.
Peace be with y'all,
Fred

Offline MadLori

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3764 on: September 11, 2006, 08:10:09 pm »
Hey y'all...I found a video of a paso fino walking.  I was curious about what it looked like.  Google to the rescue!

It is quite amazing.  I can't imagine what it looks like going faster.

http://www.swpfha.org/videos/maraquita-001-01.mpg
Jack:  I could kick your ass any day of the week.
Ennis:  Then the weeks where you live must have a No Fuckin' Way Day.

Offline neatfreak

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3765 on: September 11, 2006, 08:11:33 pm »
Welcome, heathjake! We're glad you're here. Such an insightful first post! I'm looking forward to reading more of your thoughts on this great story.

Offline pastorfred

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3766 on: September 11, 2006, 08:16:12 pm »
I am new in this forum and I am happy to be here. I can see Ennis and Ellery having a future  together and that makes me very happy. Ennis deserves to have a happy life . He truly does love Jack yes still and that will never change, but I'm glad he loves ellery too and that is good. I am sick and tired of people saying Jack is being dishonored. If they read what Ennis said..... I have to move cause I can't have Jack. I see that as Ennis saying I love him still but he is dead and he is not here so I am going to live and love still and Ellery is here to love and he loves me too. The best thing that you can do to honor someome is to carry on their lagacy and Ennis is doing that by becoming the man that Jack would love. He is doing this not becouse he does not love Jack,it is becuse he does. .still

Wanting to be buried on Brokeback beside Jacks monument  is all that he can give Jack . I agree with the poster who said that 150%  He can give Ellery a life they both deserve. Like many readers, I am a big Jack/ ennis fan but Jack is dead. This is such an amazing story and I am with it to the end.
I will however like to see Ellery write down or share with the girls Ennis's burial  wishes as he is a cop and can be hurt mortally in the line of duty  ++++( I  HOPE NOT)++++and then no one will know of Enni's wish.
Again I am glad to be here.

I, too, want to welcome you to this thread, friend. After our heartfelt conversation in the chat room earlier today, I feel comfortable calling you a friend, and I hope you will feel the same.

Your thoughts are most welcome, especially since so many of us agree with you so wholeheartedly. (*chuckle*) But even if you have ideas that would contradict what some of us feel very strongly about, you are most welcome to express those, too. We try very hard to respect each other here at bettermost, and when we disagree we try not to be disagreeable.

Ennis and Ellery face a lot of challenges in their life together. I guess the most important thing is that they are more and more committed to facing their challenges together.
Peace be with y'all,
Fred

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3767 on: September 11, 2006, 08:49:31 pm »
Heathjake,

Let me offer my welcome, too. We have a friendly, lively group here who likes to talk about the Laramie Saga, BBM (ths story and the movie), throw up pics, recipes and God knows what else....and as you discovered this afternoon, we like to chat, too.

As we say in Bettermost: pull up a chair. You want a piece of cherry cake? Some coffee?

Leslie
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Offline magicmountain

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3768 on: September 11, 2006, 10:02:13 pm »
Emotional correctness, recreational mourning and the tyranny of grief

I mentioned this a while back but I think it bears repeating. Jack is a Diana figure: both are beautiful, both are emotionally troubled, both are apparently wronged by seemingly heartless men, both meet an early tragic death in which these men are felt to be responsible for in some way. Jack attracts the same kind of emotional/devotional response in death as Diana did. There are some who would still blame Prince Charles for what happened to Diana and who will never accept Camilla on that account. Similarly there are some who blame Ennis for Jack’s death and will never accept Ellery for the same reason.

“Emotional correctness” is a variation on political correctness, in which people feel that peer pressure demands they react in a certain way. What Mick Hume a writer with British think tank Civitas and others have to say about the phenomenon of  “emotional correctness” and “recreational mourning”  following the death of Diana might help us understand better the hugely exaggerated reaction to Jack’s death by some and the resulting antagonism towards The Laramie Saga. (Note: This analysis does not apply to those who felt a healthy and genuine grief over Jack's death and experience some continuing emotional pain over him as Ennis starts a new relationship and as they to move on with Ennis to recover some joy in life! I believe that it may very well apply to obsessives who have made a fetish out of Jack's relationship with Ennis and Jack's untimely demise.)

In an article on the “Cult of Diana”, Matt Cherry wrote: “Emotions-gone-religious seems to have taken place with the mass expression of grief at the death of Diana. Public reinforcement of emotions usually kept private seemed to encourage ever more hysterical declarations of adoration and loss. A secular event was made sacred. Death can let emotion gain control over all reason.”

Author of the report “Conspicuous Compassion” Patrick West says people were trying to feel better about themselves by taking part in manufactured emotion. “Extravagant public displays of grief for strangers are 'grief-lite' undertaken as an enjoyable event, much like going to a football match or the last night of the proms. Mourning sickness is a religion for the lonely crowd that no longer subscribes to orthodox churches. Its flowers and teddies are its rites, its collective minutes' silences its liturgy and mass.”

Writing soon after Diana’s death Mick Hume wrote: “Britons are feeding their own egos by indulging in 'recreational grief' for murdered children and dead celebrities they have never met. Mourning sickness is a substitute for religion. The media preachers of emotional correctness issued two commandments in the aftermath of Diana's death. First, thou shalt weep and wail. The word from the editorial offices was that everybody from the Queen downwards had to soften that stiff upper lip and show their emotions in public. The obligation was to hug strangers, wear a ribbon, light a candle so turning the world into one big Oprah studio where audience participation was obligatory. Second, thou shalt weep together to keep together. Only one kind of emotion was to be allowed, in order for the nation to be seen to be united on its collective knees. The clear message was that if you were not grieving the way the editorial-writers said we all were, then you should put on a front of ersatz emotion and play the part anyway. The end result was a 'tyranny of grief'.

“This coercive side of emotional correctness was never far behind the flowers and the touchy-feely stuff. In seeking to impose their code of emotional correctness from the top of society downwards, much of the media abandoned reporting in favour of preaching, replacing any notion of public debate with a demand for national unity. You do not have to be a fan of the House of Windsor to worry at the implications of the assumption of such moral authority by the media. On the morning of Diana's funeral, at least one man was reportedly beaten up outside his home for showing disrespect by daring to wash his car.”

Does any of this sound familiar?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 10:28:24 pm by magicmountain »
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Offline NavyVet

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #3769 on: September 11, 2006, 11:32:14 pm »
Hi y'all!
I'm up to Chapter 88: Millie - in Shelter From the Storm.  Yay, me.
I found an animated gif of a slow gait while researching Paso Finos (coz I was curious.)
I don't know how y'all post pictures and such here.  But I sure have enjoyed the ones I've seen.
So here is the link so that you can see it also:

http://www.gaitedhorses.net/BreedArticles/PasoFino.htm

That .mpg posted earlier was awesome, btw.  What a beautiful animal.
I luv E&E and I luv The Laramie Saga!

NavyVet
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