Author Topic: A heartfelt thought  (Read 8921 times)

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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A heartfelt thought
« on: June 26, 2006, 05:06:28 pm »
If I feel too sad about the movie I try to remember that Ennis and Jack did find each other, had a love that sustained a lifetime  despite increditible odds. Even though they were never yet to have the sweet life ( had Jack lived I believed they would at some point), if your a bit generous with the math they had over a years worth of days together aside from that first summer at Brokeback.
In some ways they were very fortunate.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 01:36:11 am by jpwagoneer1964 »
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline dly64

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2006, 08:55:53 pm »
I would have liked to experience a love with that much intensity. In that way, yes, I guess they were fortunate because they found their one-in-a-lifetime love. The tragedy is that Jack was willing to embrace it, but Ennis was too scared to even face the reality that he loved a man.
Diane

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Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2006, 10:57:47 pm »
I agree with you.  Jack and Ennis' time together may have been too brief, but they loved enough for a lifetime.  They were very fortunate having found such a true love.  Forgive me if this is OT, but I just had a thought.  Poor Ennis! Jack's death would have been so much easier to accept if Jack's life had been happier.  Ennis, of course, had a lot of memories of Jack to comfort him, but he was also haunted by thoughts of what if, what could have been, probably wondering how Jack would remember their difficult lives, how Jack would remember him! :'(

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2006, 12:07:43 am »

In some ways they were very fortunate.

Wow, you managed to sum up my very first reaction to BBM after my first theater viewing.  I remember walking out of the cinema thinking, "that was a really sad movie... BUT, those guys were incredibly lucky!"  That's the amazing thing about the ending... it's happy and tremendously sad all at the same time.  Happy in that, I at least came away thinking that for them to have found each other and to have had 20 years was wonderful (even if their love was contrained by lots of obstacles... there's no doubt that they did love each other... and this is doubly confirmed by Ennis's "Jack I swear...").  And well, we all know the million reasons why it's sad too.  For me maybe the greatest tragedy is the lost time/ regret that Ennis will have to "stand" now that Jack is gone.  They could have had so much more consistent time over those 20 years...
 :'(
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Offline dly64

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2006, 10:40:09 am »
Wow, you managed to sum up my very first reaction to BBM after my first theater viewing.  I remember walking out of the cinema thinking, "that was a really sad movie... BUT, those guys were incredibly lucky!"  That's the amazing thing about the ending... it's happy and tremendously sad all at the same time.  Happy in that, I at least came away thinking that for them to have found each other and to have had 20 years was wonderful (even if their love was contrained by lots of obstacles... there's no doubt that they did love each other... and this is doubly confirmed by Ennis's "Jack I swear...").  And well, we all know the million reasons why it's sad too.  For me maybe the greatest tragedy is the lost time/ regret that Ennis will have to "stand" now that Jack is gone.  They could have had so much more consistent time over those 20 years... :'(

I think what all of you have said ... jpwagoner, littlewing, and atz75 .... hits the nail on the head. This film is tragic, yet it illustrates an enduring and passionate love. How many people do you know who have been able to stay together for 20 years? Not many. The rarity to find someone who can understand you and truly knows you is a gift.

They loved each other. They were not just "in" love with each other. It sounds like semantics, but IMO, it's not. To love someone is to love all parts of the person ... the good, the bad, the ugly .... to work through the hard times, and to be dedicated to each other no matter what happens. When I hear the saying "in love," that means a person can easily fall out of love. And, although Jack said, "I wish I knew how to quit you," the reality was he couldn't ... his love for Ennis was too strong. (sigh .... I wish I knew what that was like!!!)   ;)
Diane

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Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2006, 11:53:23 pm »
I think what all of you have said ... jpwagoner, littlewing, and atz75 .... hits the nail on the head. This film is tragic, yet it illustrates an enduring and passionate love. How many people do you know who have been able to stay together for 20 years? Not many. The rarity to find someone who can understand you and truly knows you is a gift.

They loved each other. They were not just "in" love with each other. It sounds like semantics, but IMO, it's not. To love someone is to love all parts of the person ... the good, the bad, the ugly .... to work through the hard times, and to be dedicated to each other no matter what happens. When I hear the saying "in love," that means a person can easily fall out of love. And, although Jack said, "I wish I knew how to quit you," the reality was he couldn't ... his love for Ennis was too strong. (sigh .... I wish I knew what that was like!!!)   ;)
 

Jack and Ennis loved each other as well as being in love!  Diane, this is so true.  You know, I don't even think Jack fell out of love with Ennis.  Even after all Ennis put Jack through, I'm convinced he still had a deep romantic love, a passion for him.  Jack certainly continued to love Ennis in the sense that he loved his son, his parents.  Jack thought nothing of driving thousands of miles to see Ennis a few times a year, probably would have made the trip a lot more often if Ennis wanted it.  Ennis loved Jack just as much, even though he couldn't own it.  I can't even image that kind of love.  And I can't  undersatnd how some people don't see the love!  I can feel the love they had for one another it was so powerful, so real!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2006, 01:57:37 am »
They loved each other. They were not just "in" love with each other. It sounds like semantics, but IMO, it's not. To love someone is to love all parts of the person ... the good, the bad, the ugly .... to work through the hard times, and to be dedicated to each other no matter what happens. When I hear the saying "in love," that means a person can easily fall out of love.

That's interesting. I make a distinction, too, but in a different way. To me, "love each other" means just that -- it could apply to romantic partners, but could also describe a parent-child bond, or a close friendship, or other nonromantic relationships. But I would not use "in love with each other" to describe a parent-child or close-friend relationship. To me, somehow, that little addition of the word "in" takes it to a whole new level.

Jack and Ennis were lucky enough to have both.

Offline Samrim

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2006, 06:58:07 pm »
Hello everyone, While I agree that the boys relationship was very special indeed, as a gay man who has NEVER had a relationship (I'm much too old now anyway), I feel that the whole story is of regret and failure and loss. Not their fault, blame 'society', but all that love, just gone down the drain. I did it many years ago so I know what it's like
I seem to be in a rather bitter mood tonight, please forgive me,  but all the palliative noises about them having FOUND each other, seems worth very little compared with their lives of regret and loss. Maybe they might have had happier, less dramatic lives, had they never met. I realize I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, what do you think. I love the boys to distraction, but pity then too. sam :(
Sam

Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2006, 09:39:56 pm »
Hello everyone, While I agree that the boys relationship was very special indeed, as a gay man who has NEVER had a relationship (I'm much too old now anyway), I feel that the whole story is of regret and failure and loss. Not their fault, blame 'society', but all that love, just gone down the drain. I did it many years ago so I know what it's like
I seem to be in a rather bitter mood tonight, please forgive me,  but all the palliative noises about them having FOUND each other, seems worth very little compared with their lives of regret and loss. Maybe they might have had happier, less dramatic lives, had they never met. I realize I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, what do you think. I love the boys to distraction, but pity then too. sam :(


Sam remember me?  I'm so glad to see you here!  You make a very good point, Sam.  I remember thinking this very same thing whenever I see the scene of the boys leaving Brokeback.   Ennis, realizing that his life will never be the same after meeting and falling in love with Jack, doubles over in severe emotional pain of regret, IMO!  Somehow I imagine Ennis thinking while he is dry heaving, "Why did I have to meet him?  I love him, but I may never see him again.  My life is turned upside down! I wish I had never met him, never arrived at Brokeback in the first place!"

But then again, there is that old cliche, better to have loved and lost.....

Offline ZouBEini

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2006, 10:02:36 pm »
Hello everyone, While I agree that the boys relationship was very special indeed, as a gay man who has NEVER had a relationship (I'm much too old now anyway), I feel that the whole story is of regret and failure and loss. Not their fault, blame 'society', but all that love, just gone down the drain. I did it many years ago so I know what it's like
I seem to be in a rather bitter mood tonight, please forgive me,  but all the palliative noises about them having FOUND each other, seems worth very little compared with their lives of regret and loss. Maybe they might have had happier, less dramatic lives, had they never met. I realize I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, what do you think. I love the boys to distraction, but pity then too. sam :(


Hello Sam, I like to think there is someone for everyone and that we're never too old for love. I also like to play Devi's Advocate, BTW, but I think it's important to remain open to the possibilities. I have, and hope you're able to do so also.   :)

Personally, the only things I regret are the ones I never tried.  Just my two cents' worth.

Anyway - nice to meet you!   ;D


Hi Littlewing!  I'm stalking you, but not in a creepy way.    ;)

~Larz

Offline dly64

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2006, 10:12:00 pm »
Hello everyone, While I agree that the boys relationship was very special indeed, as a gay man who has NEVER had a relationship (I'm much too old now anyway), I feel that the whole story is of regret and failure and loss. Not their fault, blame 'society', but all that love, just gone down the drain. I did it many years ago so I know what it's like
I seem to be in a rather bitter mood tonight, please forgive me,  but all the palliative noises about them having FOUND each other, seems worth very little compared with their lives of regret and loss. Maybe they might have had happier, less dramatic lives, had they never met. I realize I'm playing Devil's Advocate here, what do you think. I love the boys to distraction, but pity then too. sam :(


Hi Sam - you make some very good points. A major theme of the story is regret, failure and loss. I am not convinced, however, that they would have lived happier lives (less dramatic, yes) if they wouldn't have met each other. It is a rarity to realize that someone understands you so completely and unconditionally. Is it worth all of that pain to experience that kind of love? IMO, yes.

As for you being too old to have a relationship ... never say never. I, too, have experienced a lot of pain. I have never been married, no kids. I have been in a relationship for 14 years (we are both single ... never married). He lives in SC, I live in IN. I can't shake him even though I should. It has only meant sorrow and grief. I could tolerate it a lot more if I knew he loved me with all of his being. But he doesn't. I have left my youth behind me ... he has robbed that to a degree (and yet I allowed him to do that). So, now it is focusing on moving forward and considering that there may be someone else out there for me. It is okay if there isn't ... I am happy being alone. I just want to open myself up to that possibility ... no matter how old I get.
Diane

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Offline ZouBEini

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2006, 10:23:40 pm »
I just re-read my post and hope it didn't sound "preachy" or anything. I didn't mean it that way. 

Sam, you did make some excellent points and I failed to say so.  My hubby of 5 years died 15 years ago and for me, it's definitely better to have loved and lost.  I now feel as if I'm too old to have a new relationship but whatever happens happens.

I have an annoying habit of trying to cheer people up.  My apologies if I offended you with my earlier post.

Sam and Dly, thank you for sharing your thoughts and personal experiences.  I wish you both well.   :)

~Larz

Offline dly64

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2006, 08:52:17 pm »
I just re-read my post and hope it didn't sound "preachy" or anything. I didn't mean it that way. 

Sam, you did make some excellent points and I failed to say so.  My hubby of 5 years died 15 years ago and for me, it's definitely better to have loved and lost.  I now feel as if I'm too old to have a new relationship but whatever happens happens.

I have an annoying habit of trying to cheer people up.  My apologies if I offended you with my earlier post.

Sam and Dly, thank you for sharing your thoughts and personal experiences.  I wish you both well.   :)

~Larz

I can't speak for Sam, but I certainly did not see your comment as preachy at all.

How difficult it must have been to love and lose someone. But as I said to Sam, I don't think you can ever be too old. I know a couple who got married when they were 83 and 85 respectively. Maybe I have some hope!!  ::)
Diane

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Offline ZouBEini

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2006, 10:54:33 pm »
Thank you, Dly.   ;D

I agree - we're never too old to love someone and we are all loveable in our own unique way.  Your position must be very difficult also.  I believe there is always hope if we take a chance and if we notice and appreciate the people around us.  I wish you all the best. 

~Larz

Offline RouxB

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2006, 01:32:08 am »
One of the desires I brought back from my first viewing was a relationship and "true" as theirs. While the "waste" haunts me, the love motivates me. I have been in a very long going nowhere relationship and, while it has had many moments of pain and unfulfillment, I sure would not have traded it for anything. Well, maybe I wouldn't have hung on for quite so long...

 O0

Heathen

Offline dly64

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2006, 01:02:43 pm »
One of the desires I brought back from my first viewing was a relationship and "true" as theirs. While the "waste" haunts me, the love motivates me. I have been in a very long going nowhere relationship and, while it has had many moments of pain and unfulfillment, I sure would not have traded it for anything. Well, maybe I wouldn't have hung on for quite so long...

 O0

Whew! Can I understand that! And yet, for me, I just can't escape ... I can't let it go. Part of what makes my relationship so difficult is that I am an unknown factor to his family. You see, I am white, he is black. My family has no issues with it. His does. So, there we go. He is in the "closet" about our relationship. I, however, am much more accepting.  ;) It would be worth it if he loved me, but he doesn't. All I can say is "I wish I knew how to quit ...." him.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 01:06:12 pm by dly64 »
Diane

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Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2006, 09:10:56 pm »
Whew! Can I understand that! And yet, for me, I just can't escape ... I can't let it go. Part of what makes my relationship so difficult is that I am an unknown factor to his family. You see, I am white, he is black. My family has no issues with it. His does. So, there we go. He is in the "closet" about our relationship. I, however, am much more accepting.  ;) It would be worth it if he loved me, but he doesn't. All I can say is "I wish I knew how to quit ...." him.


Wow, that's heavy!  I had no idea, Diane!  I had a similar situation, but my relationship ended years ago.  It is for the best and I now realize I was never really in love with him.  I know this is OT, but funny how people (and I mean myself)say it was not love when the relationship is over.  ;)

Offline ZouBEini

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2006, 09:15:23 pm »
IMO, time and distance (from a person or situation) can totally change one's perspectives.

~Larz

Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2006, 11:13:37 pm »
IMO, time and distance (from a person or situation) can totally change one's perspectives.

~Larz

So true.  So very true!

Offline Samrim

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2006, 12:39:43 pm »
Hello littlewing, Larz and Diane, langorene, and anyone else I may have inadvertently given the 'cold shoulder'.

I'm slowly learning to find my way about bettermost, but it's a slow process!
Using 'search' to track down my own entries has led me to your very kind and helpful entries after my rather bitter tirade, over a month ago! I greatly appreciate and largely agree with your very kind supportive comments. The notable exception would be the possibolity this late, of my finding 'someone.' Unless he's a dead ringer for Ennis and Johhny Depp I would probably give him the  cold shoulder
Sorry to be so long replying, it's simply 'cos I'm lost in this wonderful site.
for example I've not yet dared try to 'attach' a quote to a reply. I tried reading the instructions, but the alternatives and provisos 'did my head in'.
I want to be spieling to you lovely interesting people, not wasting time ('Never enough time!) studying!. I'm not really ranting at the organization, but we're not all computer buffs. In my case I'm an ageing English wrinkly with an absolute passion for ole Brokeback, that I don't want to quit! ::)
Oh! and while I'm grumping, I wish too we all signed our entries, some do, but not all; it personalises our entry so much better than a 'user name'. I don't want phone numbers by the way, just a name (even an invented one)would be nice!
There, I've got all that off my chest, and do feel so much better!    :laugh:
Very Best Wishes all 
 :)
Sam

Offline serious crayons

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2006, 01:19:36 pm »
for example I've not yet dared try to 'attach' a quote to a reply. I tried reading the instructions, but the alternatives and provisos 'did my head in'.

Welcome back, Samrim. Are you talking about adding a quote like the one above?

If so, it's actually not too hard. You can click the "quote" button in the upper right-hand corner of the person's post, and it will automatically open up a reply window with their quote in it. Or you can hit "reply" to start a new reply window, then position the cursor in the window where you want the quote to appear, and then click "quote" from the list of messages below the window. You can do this as many times as you want in the same reply, quoting different people's messages. If you don't want to quote their whole message, just delete accordingly.

I know what you mean about being hesitant, though. It took me a long time to try it. Then another long time to figure out how to create an avatar. And I still haven't mastered posting photos in my message (let alone photoshopping them first!). Never enough time (for figuring those techy things out) is right.

By the way, my name is Katherine and I'm in the "Ennis and Jack were lucky (though not as lucky as they deserved to be)" camp.

PS, there's an easier way than "search" to find replies to your posts. Up near the top of the page, there's a box labeled "user info." Click on "show new replies to your posts" and it will give you a list of all the threads you've posted on that others have added to. Or you can click on your own username, which will take you to a page where you can click on "show this user's posts" or something like that, and it will produce a list of all your posts.

Offline dly64

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Re: A heartfelt thought
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2006, 08:22:24 am »
I greatly appreciate and largely agree with your very kind supportive comments. The notable exception would be the possibolity this late, of my finding 'someone.' Unless he's a dead ringer for Ennis and Johhny Depp I would probably give him the  cold shoulder
Sorry to be so long replying, it's simply 'cos I'm lost in this wonderful site.
for example I've not yet dared try to 'attach' a quote to a reply. I tried reading the instructions, but the alternatives and provisos 'did my head in'. /quote]

Hi Sam -

If you want to know how to do a few little fun and tricky things on BetterMost, I will send you a PM. Let me know (you can send me a PM, too).

Okay ... I can agree with you on Johny Depp, he's HOT!! I'm not as big on Ennis. Personally, I'm a Jake girl ... I mean Jack girl ... ::)l! Add to that mix Cilian Murphy and George Clooney and I will be in sheer heaven.  ;D Who knows maybe you'll find your Johnny/ Ennis hybrid and I'll find my Jake/Johnny/Cillian/George hybrid (hmmmmm.... that would be an interesting mix, wouldn't it??)

Diane



Diane

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