Author Topic: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...  (Read 4465 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« on: October 27, 2008, 05:15:40 am »
Hi BetterMostians,

„Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable – admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears, - rose around them.“


What a sentence, isn't it? I think it flows beautifully. Once again, Proulx uses nature as a metaphor. It's also very direct with the insertion, almost romantic. It's this short || of using the word love  (admissions, declarations). But it's also about the impending side (shames, guilts, fears) and a bit hopeless (and now unsayable). In this way, it encapsulates their whole relationship.

But I partly digress. This week's topic is about all them things unsaid, be it from story or movie. Where are moments you feel that things are unsaid, should be said or are short of being said?
There are some well-known examples we've already discussed several times (heck, we have a whole thread about Ennis's „I swear...“), but also less obvious instances.

The topic is not limited to the relationship between Ennis and Jack. To me, for example, it always seems Alma is short of saying something (nothing nice for sure) when Ennis talks about his rodeo experiences at the Thanksgiving scene. She forces a smile, but seems to retain a snide remark.

Another thought: would it have done any good if some of the things indeed had been said?

Let's talk about



All them things unsaid


Offline underdown

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 06:50:17 am »
I don't recall anyone saying, anywhere in BBM, 'I love you.'

Offline optom3

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 11:12:08 am »
I agree, the big tragedy is no one says I love you.How much guilt does that leave .Never mind Jack and Ennis, what about Ennis and Alma, or Ennis to his daughters, Jack to his son.Even LD newsome to Lureen. How can whole generations of families, never utter those 3 little words ? It seems inconceivable to me.

For me, it would have been heaven to hear Jack say I love you to Ennis, even had there been no response.The reunion kiss, would have been the ideal situation.Or even God I have missed you these 4 years. It kills me that Ennis never says the words,little darlin to Jack, as he does in the SS. I think Jack would have had something more concrete to cling on to. He would I feel immediately have known the importance of those 2 little words from someone as internalised and taciturn as Ennis.

I cry every time I read that part of the SS. He loves Jack, and that is the moment it becomes blindingly clear.


Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 06:49:21 pm »
Although the words "I love you" were NOT said, there were many many times that it was shown between them, where the words were not necessary.

The reunion scene, to me being the major one. Those crushing bodies together, chests, arms, hands, faces, lips, heads..........that was far stronger than the unspoken three little words.

Even when Ennis stood at the top of the stairs and said "Jack fuckin Twist".....the look, the smile, the excitement and the complete enormity of the moment, he might as well be saying "I love you".

The did say it many times, they just didnt use the "i love you" words.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 07:17:03 pm »
I think one of the main things that was unspoken between the two of them was admitting to one another and themselves (especially Ennis), was the fact that they were in a homosexual relationship and preferred that relationship to any other.

When they sat on the mountain after TS1, and said "I aint queer" and "neither am I"...they set a precedent for the next 20years together.

Jack tried to change that scenario, with "It could be like this always", but Ennis stood his ground. For him to go off with Jack permanently, would diffuse the idea, that he "aint queer".

When they sat talking on one of their "fishing trips",Ennis telling Jack about Cassy, it was like he was reinforcing to him, still,  that he "aint queer". Then Jack saying it was the "rancher's wife" he was not only covering up that he was two timing Ennis, he was also trying to convince Ennis, again,  that "neither was he" queer.

It was as if, they had to continue the charade of not beeing "queer" to justify what they were doing, was ok.

Or maybe, especially in Ennis's case, If he thought he wasn't "queer" then no one else would either.

Then in the final lake scene, when Jack admitted he had gone to Mexico, that finally, he was admitting that HE WAS.....and then Ennis broke down, and he too finally admitted the pain and agony he too had been feeling.....in his own way, he was admitting too, finally that HE WAS.

Unfortunately, we never saw them together again, after these admissions.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline mariez

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 10:25:47 pm »
Although the words "I love you" were NOT said, there were many many times that it was shown between them, where the words were not necessary.

The reunion scene, to me being the major one. Those crushing bodies together, chests, arms, hands, faces, lips, heads..........that was far stronger than the unspoken three little words.

Even when Ennis stood at the top of the stairs and said "Jack fuckin Twist".....the look, the smile, the excitement and the complete enormity of the moment, he might as well be saying "I love you".

The did say it many times, they just didnt use the "i love you" words.

Yes.  Even Ennis ordering soup from the Basque, when he previously told him he didn't eat soup tells us something.

And even though the words "I love you" weren't said in the book or movie.  Ennis uses the word "love" twice in the story, when talking about his girls:

“Two little girls,” Ennis said. “Alma Jr. and Francine. Love them to pieces.”

“What I’m sayin, Jack, I built a life up in them years. Love my little girls. Alma? It ain’t her fault.

So I can see story Ennis telling his girls that he loved them, and I think that's a case where an "I love you" was not left unsaid, even if we didn't see it.

But now I'm thinking about Jack and Lureen and the things left unsaid between them.  He told her he wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback Moutain. But she thought Brokeback was either up by Lightning Flat or a pretend place - so it appears that his wishes weren't a formal thing, but just something he "used to say" - with a lot more left unsaid.

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 11:28:03 pm »


       I think Ennis told himself that he wasn't gay.  Jack was the gay one!  "I heard what they got in
Mexico, for boys like you."  Not boys like us.  I think he had convinced himself for years, that what him
and Jack did was for his "friend" Jack.  He was so phobic, that he couldnt even allow himself to admit
to himself, he too was gay.  Maybe the only time he ever really allowed himself to feel that way was
when he said "its because a you Jack i'm like this."  Even tho he had somewhat admitted it, when he
mentioned about ' people on the street, could tell."
      So with all the denial he was not able to say, I love you or he would have to admit outloud to
himself as well.



     Beautiful mind

Offline underdown

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 06:05:17 am »
Although the words "I love you" were NOT said, there were many many times that it was shown between them, where the words were not necessary.

The reunion scene, to me being the major one. Those crushing bodies together, chests, arms, hands, faces, lips, heads..........that was far stronger than the unspoken three little words.

Even when Ennis stood at the top of the stairs and said "Jack fuckin Twist".....the look, the smile, the excitement and the complete enormity of the moment, he might as well be saying "I love you".
The did say it many times, they just didnt use the "i love you" words.

Well, I disagree that the things they said, and the looks and smiles, could be taken as saying 'I love you'.
'Might as well be saying' it, is just not saying it at all.
To actually say to someone 'I love you' takes sincerity and, without that, it cannot really be love.
Yes, fond looks and smiles and loving acts are necessary, too, but it doesn't take a lot of courage.

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 06:38:58 am »
Well, I disagree that the things they said, and the looks and smiles, could be taken as saying 'I love you'.
'Might as well be saying' it, is just not saying it at all.
To actually say to someone 'I love you' takes sincerity and, without that, it cannot really be love.
Yes, fond looks and smiles and loving acts are necessary, too, but it doesn't take a lot of courage.

I agree, that for them to have said the actual words, it would have been wonderful, but these two blokes were in denial about so many things, for them to have said those words, would have been very difficult.

So, the things they did in their own kinda way may not have been telling them that they loved them, but showing them that they loved them.....which, in my opinion is just as important and makes the love they feel no less nor less sincere.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline underdown

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Re: TOTW 28/08: All them things unsaid...
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 06:53:11 am »
I agree, that for them to have said the actual words, it would have been wonderful, but these two blokes were in denial about so many things, for them to have said those words, would have been very difficult.

So, the things they did in their own kinda way may not have been telling them that they loved them, but showing them that they loved them.....which, in my opinion is just as important and makes the love they feel no less nor less sincere.

Of course. It is just as important. It's sort of sad that the words weren't said, and half the thing was missing.