Author Topic: Gay marriage handbook  (Read 27252 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Gay marriage handbook
« on: November 10, 2008, 12:28:55 am »
Hey everybody, I read this piece yesterday in Best American Essays 2008. It originally appeared in New York. I thought this was cute and funny and touching, without being sappy, so I wanted to share it.

I originally posted it in the Proposition 8 thread in the Current Events Forum, but some people there thought it would make a good thread of its own, and perhaps generate some discussion about what people would want in their own weddings.


The Lesbian Bride’s Handbook
Is white appropriate? What’s the right term for a groom who’s a woman? And what to say to her mother?

By Ariel Levy
Published Apr 23, 2007


What is the right thing to wear to a wedding? Women have been asking themselves this question for generations and, I suppose, coming up with many of the same answers as I have. Black and gray, the colors I usually wear, are obviously too somber. Red is a bad idea: too garish, too iconic—the whore instead of the virgin—and, as a saleswoman at Saks explained to me, one doesn’t want to draw attention away from the bride. But then I am the bride. Sort of.

For several months, admitting that detail filled me with a flickering dread. I knew what would inevitably follow: “Why aren’t you wearing white?” Eventually, I realized that, obviously, I could just tell Katie at Barneys or Jen at Chloé, “Because I prefer color.” But at first, I felt compelled to tell the whole mortifying truth: “Because it’s a gay wedding.” Or, if I couldn’t quite get those words out of my mouth: “Because it’s not a real wedding.”

Ariel Levy, right, and Amy Norquist on their wedding day in Bluemont, Virginia. 
(Photo: Thad Russell)

A real wedding was not something I was raised to want. My parents were bohemians of a sort, and real weddings were like real jobs: square. As my mother has managed to mention on numerous occasions, she would have liked to elope, but to please her parents, there was a modest reception; she told them to do whatever they wanted and that she and my father would show up. When Amy and I announced that we intended to have a wedding—not a real wedding, of course, but something festive, something that expressed the scale of our glee—my mother’s response was less than gushing. “How can you feel okay about spending all that money on one day?” she wanted to know.

Naturally, I yelled at her for saying that, but the truth is I didn’t. By the time things starting getting specific and estimated costs of various things started combining to form enormous estimated sums, money was only one of many things I did not feel okay about. I did not feel okay about the word marriage, for instance, partly because it didn’t describe a legal option for me, and partly because the closer that something quite like it loomed the less it seemed like an attractive condition with which to be afflicted. (This was relatively easy to sidestep, at least in a technical sense: Our invitations promised “a party about love,” and you can’t really argue with that.) I also didn’t feel okay about spending all my free time on the phone with the flower guy and the tent man, or about making little checklists of who was coming, and who was not coming, and who was staying at the Goodstone Inn. And I definitely did not feel okay about telling the sales staff of half the better clothing retailers in New York City that I needed something fetching to wear to my big fat gay wedding.

Now that I know what is involved in throwing such an event, it is difficult to remember exactly how we decided to do so … hard to retrace the steps that led to my standing in front of a three-way mirror in a $3,700 canary-yellow Donna Karan trapeze dress, completely panicked, knowing that soon, very soon, everyone I knew and loved would be joining me for this hell of my own making, this festival of gayness and commitment.

All I can say for sure is that it started on the blackout. When I met Amy on a friend’s balcony that night, I never wanted the lights to come back on. With all the stoplights dead, traffic moved on the streets below to its own ghostly, unpredictable rhythm—everything was different. The idea that we wouldn’t be together from then on seemed unnatural, almost immediately. And so it was unsurprising that despite the considerable obstacles of other relationships and opposite coasts, eventually we had one life. We were pretty pleased with ourselves. “Look!” we wanted to say to everyone. “Look how fun! Look what’s possible! Let’s have a cocktail!” We would celebrate with our friends—our families, even. There should be music and dancing. We’d need hyacinths and shrimps! Let the wild rumpus begin.

I am not a total idiot. I always had the sense to say no wedding cake, no officiant, no first dance, no here comes the bride, no Times announcement, and absolutely no white dress. Who are we kidding? And why? We just wanted a big, awesome party where everyone could meet and go bananas. It’s a special opportunity, you know: The only other time everyone you love will assemble in one place is at your funeral. (At most weddings, some people you don’t actually love will also be in attendance. But the silver lining of my parents’ being irreverent and Amy’s parents’ being in denial is that we didn’t have to invite anyone we didn’t want to.) The thing is, though, you have to serve something, and you can’t very well go naked. You can call it a party about love all you want, but you still have to make all the same decisions that every other bride has to make, and you have to make them very carefully unless you want everyone you know to schlep to some crummy party in the middle of nowhere.


The bride in her Carolina Herrera dress. 
(Photo: Thad Russell)

And I do not believe in crummy parties. I believe in glamour. I believe that when you are on your deathbed clinging to the murk of your memories, some will stay with you purely on the power of atmosphere: the way a punch bowl looked surrounded by daisies at your 5th-birthday party, the feel of a certain set of blue sheets the first time you traveled alone. There was no way I was going to let this thing be shoddy—some pathetic hers-and-hers imitation of the real thing or some vaguely patchouli-scented ceremony. If I was going to have a party about love, it was going to be the classiest party about love ever. I did not experience this imperative as relaxing.

This was not the first large, square, optional ceremony I’d insisted on having despite my mother’s warnings. As a 10-year-old, I decided that I wanted to have a bat mitzvah. I was the only kid in the history of Westchester County who demanded Hebrew school. And as I stood in front of the racks of red at Bergdorf Goodman, I recalled the feeling I’d had at some point in my preteen Jewish odyssey when I looked down at the sacred ancient letters on the scroll: What have I done?

But in both cases, by the time the magnitude of my folly revealed itself to me, it was way, way too late to undo. As my stepmother put it with terrifying accuracy when we went to see how many cocktail tables would fit on the porch of the house where she and my dad live in the Blue Ridge Mountains, “This horse is out of the gate.” It was too late to cancel those lovely and meticulously worded invitations. Too late to tell Amy’s 80-year-old father, a man who served in MacArthur’s honor guard after World War II, that the vibratingly tense dinner at which we’d declared our intention to faux wed was a waste of a good steak and two hours of his remaining time on planet Earth. It was too late to do anything but find a dress.

Normally, I love clothes. Really love them. I feel about clothes the way I feel about flowers: They sing to me. But I understand tulips and boots; I understand little jackets. I am a stranger to formalwear. The first dress I brought home was a kind of Grecian muumuu in a cheery shade of coral. It looked like something Mrs. Robinson would have worn to a pool party in The Graduate. “Chic, right?” I said to Amy. “Perky and festive.”

She appeared confused. “You want to wear a nightgown to our wedding?”

“It’s not a wedding!” I shrieked. “It’s a party about love!”

Amy rolled her eyes. “I didn’t realize it was a pajama party about love.”

Back it went. A few days later, I modeled a low-cut pale-gold dress with spaghetti straps and a gauzy skirt from Missoni. “Nice!” said Amy. “You look like a fancy hooker. In Capri.” This was not the look I wanted.

Then one day, I went to a doctor’s appointment uptown. It was a sunny spring morning and I wore sneakers and track pants so I could walk home to the East Village when it was over. Amy was at Jussara Lee, the custom shop on Little West 12th Street where she was having her suit made for the big event, the P.A.L. As I made my way down Madison Avenue, I envied her. (And by envied I mean, obviously, resented.) Of course Amy would wear a suit; Amy always wears a suit. Everything about this situation seemed simpler for her—she was neither ambivalent nor insane, while I was rapidly flipping my lid. She didn’t care about how uncool it was that we were doing this; Amy has always been cool. While I obsessed about how lame it was to seek public acceptance, to crave ritual, and grew queasy at the mention of marriage, Amy was excited.

Then something in a shop window caught my eye. A dress the color of grass, the shape of a mermaid. A dress that would flash before your eyes on your deathbed and in your dreams. I could no longer think about being cool or being mortified or being heteronormative. I could no longer think. The doorman looked at my sneakers skeptically as I shuffled past him into the Carolina Herrera boutique.

“Hello,” I said to the salesgirl, a water lily of a woman. “I need a dress to wear to my wedding. I do not want to wear white. I want to wear that one.”

“A gown,” she told me. “That one is a gown.”

I stood still in my sneakers. “Great.”

If you are unfamiliar with the price points at Carolina Herrera, here’s a good way to get a sense of them: Think of the absolute most you can imagine an article of clothing costing. Now triple that. I must have tried on a hundred-thousand dollars’ worth of fabric that day. But every dress was exquisite, astounding. Each one made me look thinner and more expensive. And then the saleswoman brought me something I would never have even looked twice at: It was made of pale-blue oxford cloth with ribbons for straps and a corseted bodice. The skirt was tight at the top and then exploded with volume and hand-painted floral appliqués. When I put it on, I appeared to be in full bloom. “There’s your bouquet,” she said.

“I’ll take it.”

If my mother knew how much money I paid for that dress, I do believe she would disown me. But I wasn’t thinking about my mother when the seamstress started pinning me in. I was thinking about Amy’s.

Like me, Mrs. Norquist was a journalist before she got married. Like me, she is a chatterbox and a gardener. And like me, she is a clotheshorse. But that’s it. Mrs. Norquist is a staunch conservative and a churchgoer, as are two of the three sons she raised. (Her oldest, Bruce, is an Evangelical minister, and her youngest, Todd, works for the creationist movement.) When Amy came out in college (two decades ago), Mrs. Norquist didn’t speak to her for a year. In fact, as much as she likes to gab, Mrs. Norquist does not talk about anything that really bothers her, except to say the words “Oh, honestly.” She likes to talk about who’s had a baby and who’s been on a trip, and she likes to talk about weddings, a lot. She talks about weddings as much as my mother talks about shiatsu. Where my family is freaky and loose, foulmouthed and freewheeling, Mrs. Norquist is nurturing and restrained, a woman who makes toasted cheese sandwiches and tomato soup. I fell for her immediately.

When we go to visit Amy’s parents, generally Amy and her dad watch sports, and Mrs. Norquist and I drink tea and look at fashion magazines together. This is not something I find boring. It is a shared passion and a neutral territory—we avoid discussing politics, sexuality, ethnicity, and religion (except once, when I let loose an “oy vey’’ and she said, “What?” And I said, “That’s what my people say when we mean ‘Oh, honestly.’”). Fashion is what we agree upon, the thing we share besides Amy (who does not look at fashion magazines, unless maybe there were a special issue on man- tailored suits). “That’s a darling heel!” Mrs. Norquist will say. “It would be good in a dark suede,” I reply. It’s honest communication. We are both ourselves when we talk about clothes, telling each other, for once, the whole truth.

When I saw myself in the mirror in that blue gown with its graceful silhouette and giddy flowers, I could hear Mrs. Norquist gasping and saying, “Isn’t that gorgeous!” It was my secret wish that she would look at it and see in our lives sparkle instead of shame. It was my secret wish that if my party about love was as flawless as the gowns in that store, it would subsume the humiliation of its own existence ... subsume the horror of my homosexuality.

“What do you care what other people think?” is what my own mother would say, of course—has said, many times over the course of my life. And that is the difference between us. My mother is a woman who moved to Cape Cod on a whim. Who has giant green marbles stuck in the plaster of her walls for decoration and an extensive collection of Buddha-like objects she has amassed in her travels through China, Tibet, and the gift shops of the lower cape. She wears pajamas to work and is nicknamed Rocky and was, in her day, a pretty serious practitioner of non-monogamy. My mother is (still) a bad-ass, because she just doesn’t give a shit what anybody else thinks. I care what everybody thinks. So does Mrs. Norquist. I am not sure which one of them I find more mysterious.

I’m not going to lie to you: My gay wedding rocked. My oldest friend, Jesse, played “Crimson and Clover” on his electric guitar when we walked down the mountain, and I can still feel the sound of that song reverberating in my chest. My mother wore high heels and makeup for the first time I can remember and danced until one in the morning. There were these amazing pink margaritas everyone kept drinking. Mrs. Norquist gave Amy the handkerchief her mother gave her on her wedding day: “Something blue,” she said, and that’s all she said on the subject. That and “Isn’t that gorgeous!” when she saw my gown. She still can’t quite bring herself to call what happened in September a wedding. But then, for a long time, neither could I.

The dress is still hanging in my closet, which has less to do with my being sentimental than it does with eBay’s being really complicated. I can’t imagine that I’ll ever wear it again, partly because mine is not a black-tie life, and also because I doubt very much that I could get back into it. (When conservatives discuss the perils of gay marriage, they fail to mention its most pernicious consequence: Gay marriage, like all marriage, is extremely fattening.) One of these days I’ll sell it, though: That thing cost a fortune, and who could feel okay about keeping something so expensive hanging in a garment bag? Amy I’m keeping.


http://nymag.com/news/features/2007/sexandlove/30920/

« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 01:42:46 pm by serious crayons »

Offline oilgun

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 01:53:26 pm »

I read the whole thing looking for the controversial parts, but couldn't find them, lol!

My number 1 rule for gay weddings:
-Don't wear the same outfits.  Many gay couples often look like siblings to begin with, so wearing matching tuxes is just wrong, lol!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 02:56:15 pm »
I read the whole thing looking for the controversial parts, but couldn't find them, lol!

Well, not terribly controversial, but parts like this

Quote
But at first, I felt compelled to tell the whole mortifying truth: “Because it’s a gay wedding.” Or, if I couldn’t quite get those words out of my mouth: “Because it’s not a real wedding.”

made me cringe, a little, and I wondered whether anybody else would. She's being honest about her feelings, though, and of course "real" legally is still in question. I look forward to the day when people wouldn't feel any ambivalence about their own weddings.





Offline Kelda

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 06:12:56 pm »
really intersting Katherine, thanks!
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 07:18:37 pm »
My number 1 rule for gay weddings:
-Don't wear the same outfits.  Many gay couples often look like siblings to begin with, so wearing matching tuxes is just wrong, lol!

Of course, I hate to be the wet blanket here, but it seems to me their choice of what to wear unfortunately illustrates a stereotype about lesbians--one's in a suit, the other's in a gown. ("Which one's the 'man'/'husband'?"  :( )

It was a sweet and funny article. I wonder whether the Norquists are any relation to Dubya's adviser Grover Norquist?  ???
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 08:02:08 pm »
Of course, I hate to be the wet blanket here, but it seems to me their choice of what to wear unfortunately illustrates a stereotype about lesbians--one's in a suit, the other's in a gown. ("Which one's the 'man'/'husband'?"  :( )

It was a sweet and funny article. I wonder whether the Norquists are any relation to Dubya's adviser Grover Norquist?  ???

Not the only wet blanket.  My thought exactly.  Ellen DeGeneres did the same thing - I would have married Portia in that dress, she was so amazing looking - and Ellen wore a not flattering suit.  Nothing screams MAN MAN MAN at a lesbian wedding than one of the spouses wearing a suit.  :P

I very much enjoyed the article though, but the below quote tells me this couple still has some issues to iron out about commitment - the writer in serious denial she's planning a wedding and her fiance saying,

She appeared confused. “You want to wear a nightgown to our wedding?”

“It’s not a wedding!” I shrieked. “It’s a party about love!”

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 10:44:21 pm »
Not the only wet blanket.  My thought exactly.  Ellen DeGeneres did the same thing - I would have married Portia in that dress, she was so amazing looking - and Ellen wore a not flattering suit.  Nothing screams MAN MAN MAN at a lesbian wedding than one of the spouses wearing a suit.  :P

Thanks, Del. If the same thought occurred to you, then it wasn't just me being sexist. ...  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2008, 01:04:42 pm »
Tell you what, I just skimmed back over the article because something about it has been nagging at me for a day or two, since I read it. I just gave it a quick re-read, but, am I just missing it, or does the author spend so much time fussing over the damn dress that she never tells us whether or not they exchanged rings?  ???

My friends who were married in Amsterdam (on a canal barge, under a bridge) in August exchanged rings.

In the picture of the author alone, it looks like she might be wearing a ring on the traditional wedding-ring finger.

Some time soon I want to share what I would like to do if I'm ever in a position to have a ceremony--which isn't likely.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2008, 03:06:37 am »
Cute.  My kind of writing.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2008, 03:23:44 pm »

Well, about the suit / dress controversy and lesbian weddings... the only lesbian wedding I've ever been to was in MA (so it was legal!) and it was my best lesbian friend Amy marrying her girlfriend Stacy.  And, Amy wore a white sundress and Stacy wore a light suit.  It was an outdoor, fairly casual wedding in terms of style.  There were 150 people there though... and the reception was enormous.

In their case, their choice of outfits definitely reflects and extremely deliberate aspect of their overall relationship which is butch-femme.  Both Amy and Stacy are very frank and open about discussing this kind of dynamic within their relationship.  And, it was in fact something Amy was actively looking for when she was still single, dating and looking for a partner. 

This is something that Amy and I disagree on and we've had some sort of funny arguments about the "politics" of the butch-femme thing.  She's a really strong feminist and understands all the implications of the butch-femme thing that could be considered problematic.  But, still... outside of the academics of it... it's something that works for her and makes her feel happy and comfortable in her relationship.  Again, it's not something that I would choose for myself... and certainly lots of lesbians reject the butch-femme thing.  But, the reality is that there are some in lesbian culture who embrace it.

My friend Michael has long told me about one of the most beautiful weddings he claims to have attended... actually a commitment ceremony between two women.  And, in that case the two women both wore long, black cocktail style gowns.

So, the interesting thing about lesbian and gay weddings is the amount of flexibility and creativity that seems really possible since conventions about this type of wedding certainly aren't set in stone yet... the traditions of gay weddings really still seem to be in the formulation phase culturally speaking.
The amount of individuality possible from ceremony to ceremony seems like a good thing to me.


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Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2008, 03:31:26 pm »
Some time soon I want to share what I would like to do if I'm ever in a position to have a ceremony--which isn't likely.


Oh, I'd like to read that post.

I haven't given much thought to a ceremony, but I want one.

The only thing I have pick out is matching engagement rings, and wedding rings (not traditional).



Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2008, 03:55:43 pm »
This is something that Amy and I disagree on and we've had some sort of funny arguments about the "politics" of the butch-femme thing.  She's a really strong feminist and understands all the implications of the butch-femme thing that could be considered problematic.  But, still... outside of the academics of it... it's something that works for her and makes her feel happy and comfortable in her relationship.  Again, it's not something that I would choose for myself... and certainly lots of lesbians reject the butch-femme thing.  But, the reality is that there are some in lesbian culture who embrace it.

Amanda, would you mind elaborating a bit on the butch-femme thing? I mean, my folks was Methodist.  ;D I get the concept in a general way,  but aside from pointing toward wedding apparel choices, how does it play out in daily life? What are the politics, and how is it potentially problematic for feminists?

Quote
So, the interesting thing about lesbian and gay weddings is the amount of flexibility and creativity that seems really possible since conventions about this type of wedding certainly aren't set in stone yet... the traditions of gay weddings really still seem to be in the formulation phase culturally speaking.
The amount of individuality possible from ceremony to ceremony seems like a good thing to me.

Hey, maybe instead of destroying the institution of marriage, gay marriage could open up the possibilities for more creative wedding celebrations for couples of all kinds!  :D



When we planned our ceremony we wanted to avoid being imitative of straight weddings.  It felt false to us.

Me too, even though mine WAS a straight wedding. It was nontraditional in many ways, because the traditions felt kind of phony. For one thing, the ceremony was conducted by my former roommate, Tom, who had just been ordained a Unitarian minister. So that was really nice! We each only had one "of honor" person, and we let them wear their own clothes. I wore a cream-colored lace dress but not a "wedding dress," and on the way to the party afterward I slipped on a jean jacket.

And Mike's brother and a friend, both musicians, provided nice gentle guitar versions of songs we loved. So the pre-ceremony music was by the Replacements:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MZKbYjkK64&feature=related[/youtube]


and the actual wedding processional was by the Suburbs:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbWMTOf31GQ[/youtube]

And the reception was so great I've had people tell me it was their most fun one ever, including their own!







Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 04:26:04 pm »
The traditions of gay weddings really still seem to be in the formulation phase culturally speaking.

I just hope that "we" don't end up adopting the tradition of "tossing the garter." ...  ::)

 ;D
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2008, 04:27:07 pm »
By Ariel Levy
Published Apr 23, 2007[/b]

Red is a bad idea: too garish, too iconic—the whore instead of the virgin—and, as a saleswoman at Saks


Whoa, whoa, whoa, Ariel. Hold your horses! ;)

I think red is not a bad idea at all. I wore a red dress for my wedding. And when I say red, I do mean red. Fire truck red.



So, the interesting thing about lesbian and gay weddings is the amount of flexibility and creativity that seems really possible since conventions about this type of wedding certainly aren't set in stone yet... the traditions of gay weddings really still seem to be in the formulation phase culturally speaking.
The amount of individuality possible from ceremony to ceremony seems like a good thing to me.

Definitly agreed that individuality in wedding ceremonies of whatever kind is a good thing. My wedding was traditional only in those aspects we agreed with. But we simply left out much of the stuff people think they "have to" do.
Nothing is set in stone. And even if it were, I've always been stubborn enough to do what I want anyway. It was our big day, so nobody but us set the rules.


Which of course goes dirtectly with the topic of gay weddings. Gay or straight, nobody but the two who are marrying should set the rules IMO. No instruction manual handbook needed ;D.

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2008, 04:32:08 pm »
I just hope that "we" don't end up adopting the tradition of "tossing the garter." ...  ::)


That's the one part of weddings I hate!

They call all the single ladies, and then all the single men, and they make them slip this garter up the leg of the poor woman.

Half the time, the bride throws it to her single best friend, and then the groom has to throw it to her boyfriend, so they can be the "next ones married."

 ::)


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2008, 04:45:47 pm »
Nobody but the two who are marrying should set the rules IMO.

It's nobody's business but theirs.  ;D


Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2008, 04:54:17 pm »
It's nobody's business but theirs.  ;D

Exactly! :)

Why do I even bother? Annie Proulx already said it much shorter and better :laugh:

Still amazing how many succinct expressions there are in such a short piece of prose.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2008, 05:02:21 pm »
Well...now that could be fun Jeff...think about it.

What Chuck said about it. ... Tossing the garter, I mean.

Makes me want to toss my lunch. ...  8)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2008, 05:18:05 pm »

Oh, I'd like to read that post.

My ceremony would be very simple. I don't hold with the need for a church liturgy for it. I would invite my pastor, and I would invite him to pray for me and my partner, but I would not ask him to "marry" us. I'll stick with the early Puritans, who held that nowhere in the New Testament does it say that marrying people is part of a minister's job.

There would be a table, with flowers, and two lighted candles, with one unlighted candle in a holder taller than the holders for the other two candles. Perhaps the ticky-tackiest part of the whole thing is that I would like there to be music, a processional, my favorite recording of an organ-and-trumpet rendition of The Prince of Denmark March, aka the Trumpet Voluntary, by Jeremiah Clarke (English baroque period).

Accompanied by our attendants, my partner and I would approach the table down an aisle made up of our friends while the music plays. We would take each other by the right hand and make our vows to each other. We would exchange rings, probably as part of the vow exchange. Then we would each take one of the lighted candles and together light the single, taller candle. This would be the point at which I would ask my pastor to pray for us. And that would essentially be it.

Afterward there would be cake and champagne. There would also be a large certificate, done in calligraphy and made up in advance, and everyone present would be invited to sign it.

My pattern for this is how marriages were done in very early colonial Pennsylvania. This was the way the Quakers did it; the couple stood up together in meeting and vowed to take each other as husband and wife, and everyone present was invited to sign a certificate. I've never been to a Quaker wedding, so for all I know the Quakers may still do it this way.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2008, 05:29:50 pm »
Cool plans, Jeff! So appropriate for a history lover.


Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2008, 05:42:05 pm »
Wow Jeff, thank you for describing that.  :-*

Offline southendmd

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2008, 05:59:13 pm »

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Ariel. Hold your horses! ;)

I think red is not a bad idea at all. I wore a red dress for my wedding. And when I say red, I do mean red. Fire truck red.



Wow, Chrissi!

You look like you are starring in Meryl's production of "Carmen".

Offline oilgun

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2008, 06:28:19 pm »
Years ago, I was 'Man of Honour' at my best (female) friend's wedding while the groom had a "Best Woman". It was the second marriage for both of them so they kept it simple with a civil ceremony and a party afterwards.  The invitation stated to NOT bring gifts, just your presence.  I thought that was quite radical and loved them even more for it!  :laugh:

IIt's strange but considering I'm over 50 I haven't been to very many weddings, gay or straight, in my life.  Maybe 6 in total but I'm not complaining, they are not my favourite thing.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2008, 06:36:08 pm »




       Chrissi how beautiful your wedding picture was...thanks for posting.   :-* :-*



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Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2008, 07:58:24 pm »
way cool ceremony, Jeff!  I think it suits you!


I, however, am not that classy!  At least when it comes to the reception.   :laugh:

One that I would love to have happen at my ceremony (but first I need to find the guy) is that Truman would perform the ceremony.

The only thing I'm certain on is the song I'd dance with my mom to.  She knows I have a song picked, but I won't tell her what it is.  She's always said since I was small that if she and Dad have done their job right as parents, I'd have wings, and be able to leave the nest to be my own person.

So for our dance, I want it to be to R. Kelly's "I Believe I Can Fly".


I've also seen some rings I like......of course, that goes out the window if "Mr. Right" doesn't like them, I can't make him wear something he doesn't like, but I'd us to wear these as engagement rings.



and although this is not a wedding band, I like this ring to use after we've exchanged vows.





Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2008, 11:22:42 pm »
Cool plans, Jeff! So appropriate for a history lover.

Thanks. Now all I need's a partner.  :-\

Way cool ceremony, Jeff!  I think it suits you!

Thanks.

Quote
I've also seen some rings I like......of course, that goes out the window if "Mr. Right" doesn't like them, I can't make him wear something he doesn't like, but I'd us to wear these as engagement rings.

And although this is not a wedding band, I like this ring to use after we've exchanged vows.

I wouldn't bother with engagement rings, but I've seen some very nice simple rings with a Celtic knotwork design that I think would make nice commitment rings.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2008, 11:39:26 pm »
Amanda, would you mind elaborating a bit on the butch-femme thing? I mean, my folks was Methodist.  ;D I get the concept in a general way,  but aside from pointing toward wedding apparel choices, how does it play out in daily life? What are the politics, and how is it potentially problematic for feminists?


Heya K,
This is definitely a super interesting topic (and probably could be spun off into it's own whole conversation, but I'll try to answer this briefly here).  First of all, I don't think there are any really codified rules about this type of dynamic in a couple... I'm sure there are as many manifestations of the butch-femme thing as there are couples who get into it.  But, I think it often impacts a lot of the "aesthetics" of the relationship (yes clothing, etc.) and it has meaning in sexual terms usually too.  And, then, I think it also has a lot to do with just playing with gender boundaries and assumptions.  Sometimes, I think there's a little bit of a kitsch factor or irony for some butch-femme couples.  And sometimes it really seems to be about the issue of personal attraction.  My friend Amy only wanted to date butch looking or butch-identified women.  The most gorgeous femme-type woman could express interest in her and it really wouldn't do much for her.  She was very conscious and explicit about looking for this in a mate.

Anyway, I think the most interesting thing about it is that it probably has deep, deep roots in lesbian history.  I think the idea of one woman in the couple dressing in masculine clothes had a lot to do with going "out" in public together as a couple.  And, in say the 19th century or early 20th century wearing masculine clothes and trying to "pass" in a masculine identity afforded a woman a lot more autonomy in terms of basic things like walking around in city streets safely.  A lot of lesbian literature with a historical bent deals with this whole topic.

These days, to me personally the butch-femme thing seems very old-fashioned and way too limited in terms of ideas and stereotypes about gender roles in relationships.  And, the idea of trying to mimick a heterosexual pattern in a relationship can sometimes seem sort of odd or maybe even besides the point to many gay and lesbian people.

For me personally I can be attracted to both butch and femme type women (really just depending on the individual in question)... but I'm more often attracted to femme types.  And, I think most lesbians would say that I'm also a "femme" type... so the butch-femme thing just really doesn't make sense to me on a personal level.  There's a lot more to all of this of course... but I think I'll leave it there for this thread.

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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2008, 11:42:42 pm »



I think red is not a bad idea at all. I wore a red dress for my wedding. And when I say red, I do mean red. Fire truck red.


 

Chrissi!!! This is so great! :)

Yep, I think red is a great color and it's such a major symbol of happiness and luck in so many cultures. 

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Marge_Innavera

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2008, 10:33:32 am »
Chrissi!!! This is so great! :)

Yep, I think red is a great color and it's such a major symbol of happiness and luck in so many cultures. 



One of the most drop-dead gorgeous wedding outfits I've ever seen was a photo of a Chinese bride who was wearing a traditional-type Western wedding dress; i.e., white satin with a wide skirt and a lot of frou-frou.  But she'd chosen to include the traditional red wedding color in the ensemble: ruby-red flowers, red sparkies on her veil and much of the decoration on the dress was red as well.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2008, 10:39:33 am »
Yep, I think red is a great color and it's such a major symbol of happiness and luck in so many cultures. 

Even in the West brides didn't wear white until Catharine of Aragon wore it at her marriage to Prince Arthur of England in 1501.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.


Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2008, 04:15:30 pm »
OMG!  Lynne, I love it!   ;D


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2008, 04:37:42 pm »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2008, 05:51:26 pm »



          That was very sweet.  Yes Jeff, it is very nonspecific gender....



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Offline KristinDaBomb

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2008, 09:27:31 pm »
xoxo

~Kristin~

<3

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2008, 10:51:45 pm »
Omg, I love love love that ring. :D :D

I do too!  ;D


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Kelda

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Re: Gay marriage handbook
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2009, 05:39:25 pm »
bumping this thread as its so interesing.. was just refinding it to post on another forum and I remembered what and interesting discussion it was.
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