Author Topic: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?  (Read 13439 times)

Offline nakymaton

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Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« on: July 04, 2006, 06:00:14 pm »
Just to try to make a thread that's as complicated as the "age and favorite cowboy" thread, here's another attempt to sort out correlations.

Which do you like better, movie or book... or do you like them both equally?
Which character do you like better, Ennis or Jack... or do you like them both equally?
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 07:36:47 pm »
Mine is the "prefer movie to book, like both men equally" vote. I like the movie better for several reasons, not all of them high-brow and some outright shallow: The stronger early emphasis in the film on the love/romance angle through TS2 and other scenes,  the way the film presents both men as more loving and caring fathers than the book does, the captivating scenery and visuals throughout the film (skies, landscapes, colors....) that the story can't rival, the way the film has been expanded to let us get to know Lureen and Alma, among others, and the fact that both men look downright hot in the film, while in the story...not so much.

Don't get me wrong - I do love the story and am particularly impressed with its utterly non-sentimental attitude throughout and its ability to convey lifetimes of emotions and experiences in mere paragraphs; its clarity concerning the relationship in later years, -  the film wins marginally, not by miles.

As for Ennis and Jack - oh, I love them both, and equally. Well, sometimes they frustrate me both - and equally, although for differing reasons. Simply can't have the one without the other.  :-*

« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 07:42:59 pm by Mikaela »

Offline David

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 07:44:08 pm »
I liked the book, but some of the scenes in the book disturbed me.   Jacks Dad peeing on him,  Ennis peeing in the sink of his trailer, ugh, so low class.      But otherwise the book was fine.   

The movie was visually spectacular.   And of course Jack and Ennis were far better looking than the characters in the book!   Yes, I'm shallow I guess.

I liked both Jack and Ennis equally if not for different reasons.

Where is the sequal?     :)

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 09:26:34 pm »
I guess I'll say how I voted now -- I voted that I couldn't decide on either. ;D I love the story for its descriptive language: (The mountain boiled with demonic energy, glazed with flickering broken-cloud light, the wind combed the grass and drew from the damaged krummholz and slit rock a bestial drone. or He could smell Jack -- the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain.) And for its emotional restraint, for hiding its power in unemotional language. I love the movie for its landscapes and music and for the chance to see every little nuance in the characters through the subtle power of all the acting.

And I like both Ennis and Jack (and yes, am frustrated with both of them) for different reasons, too. (Jack is fascinating because I'm not quite sure what makes him tick; Ennis is fascinating because of all the stuff tangled up in him.) And yeah, there's the both-characters-are-really-hot factor, too. ;D
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2006, 01:11:22 am »
Movie and Ennis. Partly for the aforementioned shallow reasons ...  ::) :-*

But also because I think the movie is more complex and interesting. And your question is a good one, Mel, because at least for me the two aren't unrelated: I think Ennis is more complex and interesting in the movie. (Read that sentence any way you like; I find Ennis more interesting than he is in the book, and I find Ennis more interesting -- ducks from hailstorm of tomatoes -- than Jack.)

We've talked about how different Story Ennis and Movie Ennis are, and about how Movie Ennis has more internalized homophobia. That's one of the main things I prefer about the movie (along with more plot development, cuter cowboys, etc.).

The story is about the damage that society's prejudices inflict on people's lives: Story Ennis is afraid to live with Jack for objective and true external reasons -- too dangerous. The movie is about the damage that society's prejudices inflict on people's souls: Ennis is afraid to live with Jack for subjective and false internal reasons -- too shameful.

That said, I do find the writing in the story beautiful. And I'll always be grateful to it for providing the framework for this fantastic movie.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2006, 07:11:32 am »
I voted for movie and Ennis (Hi Katherine, guess you're not surprised, are you  ;D?)

Though I love all four of them:

The book for it's unsentimental, mostly sparse language. And for the fact that despite it's sparseness (or just because of it), it's sometimes so poetical. And naturally for the storyline itself.

I love the movie more, because it's more complex. This is true for movie vs. book comparison as a whole and it's true for the single characters. They are portrayed and elaborated more intensely in the movie. The movie moves and haunts me more than the story.
And naturally for all those reasons others have already mentioned: cinematorgaphy, TS2 alone could make me vote the movie over the book, our boys are so hot in the movie, the many, many added remarkable dialogue lines (see the belonging polls: fav Jack-lines and fav Ennis-lines).


In love Jack for his caring, nurturing, lovable character. His liveliness, his courage to go for the things he wants, his dreaminess and his optimism. And for the fact that he loves Ennis so much. And movie-Jack for his blue eyes and *that* smile.

And Ennis: difficult to describe in a few recapitulaing words. Go and read the "I love everything Ennis"-thread. I agree with everything said there  :)

I just try:
I love his braveness, that he fights his inner demons every time he goes to see Jack. That he is able to love Jack despite his struggle.
He is kind, polite, lovable, also nurturing (like Jack). I love the way he adores his daughters. I love that he always tries to do the right thing, athough it would have been better in some regards, if he had acted otherwise (sticking to Alma eg). He is solid and reliable.

In general, I'm more into the quiet-but-strong-types. And for those who see him as a weak character: I disagree. I think it requires a lot of strength to repress ones own nature and longings for so many years. If only he had put his strength and all those efforts into something better.

Still waters run deep; this is very true for Ennis and I love him for that.






Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2006, 10:31:33 am »
I agree with everything you say, Penth -- no surprise, hunh?  ;)

I just want to add that I don't mean to give Jack short shrift. I fear I sometimes sound that way, but in fact I love him also. It's just that I know there is no shortage of others who will speak on his behalf, whereas the Ennis fan club is smaller and so has to work harder.

Though at this very moment, among those who state a preference, Ennis is ahead, 3 to 2! (How long will that last?)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2006, 03:20:28 pm »
I'm in the majority, looks like (for now) - I like the story and the movie equally and I like both men equally.  I'm glad I saw the movie without having read the story first, but I love Annie's writing and nowhere moreso than in this story.  I don't prefer either character - I just prefer the both of them together.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 06:48:43 pm »
Wow, this was a great idea for a poll, and a real tough one to answer!

The truth is, my feelings are a bit more complicated than any of the answers.

I like the story and the film equally. If I may borrow a phrase from fanfiction, for me they are almost like alternative universes to each other.

I identify with Ennis in both story and film, but I like Ennis more in the story. I prefer Film Jack to Story Jack. Annie Proulx tells us some things about Story Jack that I'd prefer not to know. In the film, where we know only what we see on the screen before us, there is some open space between what I know about Jack and what I want to believe about Jack.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ennis/Jack/both; book/movie/both?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2006, 10:55:51 am »
I identify with Ennis in both story and film, but I like Ennis more in the story. I prefer Film Jack to Story Jack. Annie Proulx tells us some things about Story Jack that I'd prefer not to know. In the film, where we know only what we see on the screen before us, there is some open space between what I know about Jack and what I want to believe about Jack.

Wow.  I couldn't agree with you more, here, Jeff.  I over-simplified my answer because I thought my reasons for liking both characters equally were too complicated to explain.  And then you came along and nailed it.  Thanks!  :)  Story Ennis is less uptight than Movie Ennis, for sure.  And Movie Jack (thanks to Mr. Gyllenhaal primarily) is more vulnerable than Story Jack, who I find almost unnervingly aggressive.  Still, I enjoy the story just as much, but sometimes for different reasons than I enjoy the movie.
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