Author Topic: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"  (Read 7949 times)

Offline August7th

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Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« on: December 01, 2008, 05:28:09 pm »
There's a passage in Gone With the Wind (the book) that is interesting when considering the final scene between Jack and Ennis. Near the end of that book, Scarlett has finally decided that she does love Rhett after all, but he is no longer interested. He says to her, " . . . Scarlett, did it ever occur to you that even the most deathless love could wear out? . . . Mine wore out against Ashley Wilkes and your insane obstinacy that makes you hold on like a bulldog to anything you think you want. Mine wore out."

Thus, Rhett can "quit" Scarlett and truly not give a damn what she does or where she goes. I don't believe that Jack had reached that point. But the fact that he would vocalize a desire to "quit" Ennis makes me wonder -- although his love for Ennis was a once-in-a-lifetime love, was that love wearing out?

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 06:59:25 pm »
That's a good question, August. I like the way you, and Rhett, put it. Based on Jack's exasperated comment and also on his actions, as told to Ennis after his death by Old Man Twist, I would have to conclude that yes, his love was wearing out after 20 long years, and he did yearn to "settle" with Randall. The tragedy of it all was that just when Jack embraced a new life, it was cruelly taken from him by hate or a flat tire, whichever scenario you believe.
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Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 10:27:54 pm »
I think his love wore out, and yes he did "settle" with Randall it seems, but if Ennis and changed and had come around lookin' for him and wanted the "sweet life", I still think he would have dropped everything to be with Ennis.

It is my opinion that during the Cassie "girls don't fall in love with fun" blow-up in the bus station, that Ennis right at that moment suddenly realizes it all, how it all is, and how he denied it, took it for granted, didn't act on it, etc etc.  But as we know, in the next scene, it then becomes too late.

Offline southendmd

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008, 02:05:16 pm »
Here's where Annie's use of language comes in.  Jack says, "I wish I knew how to quit you." 

To me, this implies that Jack is essentially unable to quit Ennis; he doesn't know how. 

Sure, he probably got exasperated with Ennis's excuses, but I think Ennis is still "Mr. Right" and Randall is "Mr. Right Now".

I agree that, had Ennis seen the light, Jack wouldn't hesitate to join him.

Offline tango

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 02:24:24 am »
I think Jack was moving towards ending it with Ennis or at least towards moving on with someone else to get his primary needs met. I got the feeling that Jack yearned for a more authentic life and while he wanted that life with Ennis, he was growing tired of waiting so was willing to settle for a back up Ennis rather than have nothing at all. I think of "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with" line.  Ending a relationship doesn't end the love or the desire but sometimes emotional survival and self respect demands it.   

I always felt if Jack didn't die when he did, that within the next 2 or 3 meetings, Jack was going to give Ennis an ultimatum.  He would either tell him to come with him to his parents and build the cabin and live the life he needed or it was over.  I think saying out loud his inability to quit Ennis was in fact the beginning of his learning to start. Can't fix what you don't acknowledge. Secondly his telling his parents about leaving his wife and bringing his ranching neighbor up to help was another possible clue that Jack was emotionally starting to distance himself from Ennis. Maybe it was another of Jacks stories that had no factual basis of ever coming true but I see it as meaning that Jack was now seeing someone else in a life plan that previously only contained Ennis for a number of years. And vocalizing the change to the only other people who knew about Ennis and how close they were through the years.

I'm certainly not an expert on the story nor the movie so my opinion could be off and just be clouded by my personal experiences. I think all of us have come to a time in our life when we decided it'd be less painful to be alone and unhappy then in a relationship and unhappy.  And many times, our emotions and minds checked out way before our bodies did.

Offline Sophia

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 06:51:47 am »
I think Jack was moving towards ending it with Ennis or at least towards moving on with someone else to get his primary needs met. I got the feeling that Jack yearned for a more authentic life and while he wanted that life with Ennis, he was growing tired of waiting so was willing to settle for a back up Ennis rather than have nothing at all. I think of "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with" line.  Ending a relationship doesn't end the love or the desire but sometimes emotional survival and self respect demands it.   

I always felt if Jack didn't die when he did, that within the next 2 or 3 meetings, Jack was going to give Ennis an ultimatum.  He would either tell him to come with him to his parents and build the cabin and live the life he needed or it was over.  I think saying out loud his inability to quit Ennis was in fact the beginning of his learning to start. Can't fix what you don't acknowledge. Secondly his telling his parents about leaving his wife and bringing his ranching neighbor up to help was another possible clue that Jack was emotionally starting to distance himself from Ennis. Maybe it was another of Jacks stories that had no factual basis of ever coming true but I see it as meaning that Jack was now seeing someone else in a life plan that previously only contained Ennis for a number of years. And vocalizing the change to the only other people who knew about Ennis and how close they were through the years.

I'm certainly not an expert on the story nor the movie so my opinion could be off and just be clouded by my personal experiences. I think all of us have come to a time in our life when we decided it'd be less painful to be alone and unhappy then in a relationship and unhappy.  And many times, our emotions and minds checked out way before our bodies did.


thank you for sharing your thoughts. Its a very intresting idea.

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2009, 08:17:01 pm »
tango, I think you are right and Old Man Twist's speech to Ennis confirms that in an oblique way.
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Offline Sammi

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2009, 08:27:55 pm »
Hmm interesting idea.  I hate to think that Jack had given up on the relationship with Ennis.  I just don't want to believe it.  But the last time we see Jack he is looking pretty sullen and angry.   And Ennis said some pretty hurtful things, it's your fault, why don't you let me be... etc. I wonder if Jack finally gave up.  And I wonder what he would have done if he had received that last postcard about meeting up in November, if he would have gone or not.

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2009, 10:39:28 pm »

 And I wonder what he would have done if he had received that last postcard about meeting up in November, if he would have gone or not.

Yes, of course he would have always gone to Ennis, whenever he invited him.
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Offline Sammi

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 11:34:39 pm »
Of course.  Nice thought.   :)

Part of why it's so tragic.

Offline Monika

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2009, 02:55:01 am »
Yes, of course he would have always gone to Ennis, whenever he invited him.

I think so too. That´s what the shirts convey in the end of the movie. Jack´s love was of the forever kind.

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2009, 10:33:29 am »
I think Jack communicated this when Lureen asked him why Ennis couldn't come down to Texas and fish, and he replied "Because the Big Horn Mountains ain't in Texas." He said Big Horn, but he was thinking Big Heart.  :)
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Offline optom3

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2009, 09:56:25 pm »
I think jack's love for Ennis never died. He simply was incapable of "quitting" him. Time and circumstance may have led him down a different path, but his heart so long ago given to Ennis, remained just where it had always been since that first meeting. Maybe I am just an old romantic, but I truly beleve Jack was so in love with Ennis that no matter how many miles or years, he only truly ever had one love.
Life made that love an impossible dream, it did not kill it.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2009, 03:22:35 pm »
Yes, of course he would have always gone to Ennis, whenever he invited him.

Yes, I agree he would go whenever Ennis invited him too... no matter what.  I think it's part of his short leash.  Even if he resolved in his head to not respond to Ennis... I think he'd ultimately be unable to resist running back to Ennis.  The short leash is part of Jack.  

And, I always think the "I wish I knew how to quit you" line is very profound and self-aware.  He knows he can't break up with Ennis (maybe even at odds with some of his more exasperated wishes).  Jack's no more able to break his short leash than Ennis is able to overcome his own attachments to the relationship.  Even when Ennis is saying "get off me"... he's hugging Jack tight.



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Offline mariez

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2009, 03:30:03 pm »
Yes, I agree he would go whenever Ennis invited him too... no matter what.  I think it's part of his short leash.  Even if he resolved in his head to not respond to Ennis... I think he'd ultimately be unable to resist running back to Ennis.  The short leash is part of Jack.  

And, I always think the "I wish I knew how to quit you" line is very profound and self-aware.  He knows he can't break up with Ennis (maybe even at odds with some of his more exasperated wishes).  Jack's no more able to break his short leash than Ennis is able to overcome his own attachments to the relationship.  Even when Ennis is saying "get off me"... he's hugging Jack tight.

Excellent post, Amanda!  I love the way you worded that:  "The short leash is part of Jack."  Exactly.  It was internal - not something Ennis "put" on him.   And I really like the point you make that  Even when Ennis is saying "get off me"... he's hugging Jack tight.  That's Ennis.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2009, 03:34:15 pm »
Excellent post, Amanda!  I love the way you worded that:  "The short leash is part of Jack."  Exactly.  It was internal - not something Ennis "put" on him.   And I really like the point you make that  Even when Ennis is saying "get off me"... he's hugging Jack tight.  That's Ennis.

Thanks Marie! :)  :-*

Those late scenes of the movie (lake side fight, Jack's mysterious facial expression at the end of that scene, Ennis's later behavior, etc.) are endlessly interesting to think about.


And I agree that the leash isn't something Ennis put on Jack.  Jack had the leash from the very beginning when they're walking to the bar in Signal... and they barely knew each other then.  So, I think it was already there in Jack's character/personality.  Jack wanted attachments and a relationship. He craved the full connection and the full life together.  I think the leash metaphor may be part of this.




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Offline chowhound

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2009, 04:32:41 pm »
Like others here, I don't believe Jack's love was "wearing out".  As Southendmd has pointed out, Jack doesn't say that he's quitting Ennis but "I wish I knew how to quit you". In this moment of emotional exasperation with Ennis, Jack may well wish to be quit of Ennis but, as he acknowledges, he doesn't know how. I suspect that once things have settled down, all thoughts of even trying to quit Ennis will have disappeared.

Nevertheless, this is an important scene as it is directly connected to the second tent scene  and, because of this link, we can look back over the whole of the movie and possibly forward as well.The link is provided by Jack. In the second tent scene, as Jack starts to hold Ennis, he murmurs to him "it's all right...it's all right". In the quarrel scene, as Jack once more takes Ennis in his arms, he again says to him "it's all right...it's all right". The difference , however, is that after the second "all right", Jack adds "damn you, Ennis". However, Jack's addition of"damn you" here is not, I think, a suggestion that he's about to walk away but an expression of emotional frustration that  something that started in that second tent scene has never, for Jack at least, reached a satisfactory conclusion even after nineteen years.

However, if the quarrel scene is a way of looking back, it also leaves open the question of what will happen next. Will anything change?i I think it's possible that it isn't Jack who changes but Ennis When Ennis sends Jack that final postcard suggesting that the two of them meet up at Pine Creek on Nov. 7. it looks as though this is the first time that Ennis has been the initiator in arranging their meetings, This, I think, is significant. Also, he's had the whole summer to think things over and recognize that Jack has even mentioned the notion that he might quit Ennis. Then Ennis's family obligations for his daughters are lessening. By the time of the quarrel scene, Alma Jr is at least seeing her first boyfriend, Troy, if not her husband-to-be, Kurt. Jenny can't be far behind. If his child support payments stop at 18, then he'll have stopped paying money for Alma Jr by the time of the quarrel scene and the same will be true of Jenny in a year or so. As well, in society, things are changing. "83 is not '63 and by '83, gay men are integrating a little more easily into society compared to twenty years ago. Even Ennis must be vaguely aware of this.

For all these reasons, I believe that Ennis, at that November meeting, might well have been prepared to offer Jack more of that "sweet life" than he had ever been prepared  to before. If I'm right, of course, the tragedy is, that all of this came a few months too late.

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Re: Did Jack's Love "Wear Out"
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2009, 11:59:45 am »
...I think it's possible that it isn't Jack who changes but Ennis When Ennis sends Jack that final postcard suggesting that the two of them meet up at Pine Creek on Nov. 7. it looks as though this is the first time that Ennis has been the initiator in arranging their meetings, This, I think, is significant. Also, he's had the whole summer to think things over and recognize that Jack has even mentioned the notion that he might quit Ennis. Then Ennis's family obligations for his daughters are lessening. By the time of the quarrel scene, Alma Jr is at least seeing her first boyfriend, Troy, if not her husband-to-be, Kurt. Jenny can't be far behind. If his child support payments stop at 18, then he'll have stopped paying money for Alma Jr by the time of the quarrel scene and the same will be true of Jenny in a year or so. As well, in society, things are changing. "83 is not '63 and by '83, gay men are integrating a little more easily into society compared to twenty years ago. Even Ennis must be vaguely aware of this.

For all these reasons, I believe that Ennis, at that November meeting, might well have been prepared to offer Jack more of that "sweet life" than he had ever been prepared  to before. If I'm right, of course, the tragedy is, that all of this came a few months too late.


Very insightful post, friend, and you are right, it's a case of "too little, too late." Ennis is ready to give his love, but alas, Jack is gone. It's ironic and tragic.
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