Author Topic: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes  (Read 12499 times)

Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« on: December 11, 2008, 01:56:21 pm »

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/heaths-gay-kiss-cut/censorship/

Heath's Gay Kiss Cut

No gay sex please, we’re Italian. The Italian national broadcaster RAI TV has run into a storm of protests after it aired Brokeback Mountain sans a key plotline kiss between Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, The Telegraph reports. RAI said it aired the cut version by mistake, but gay activists and newspaper editorial writers were outraged nonetheless. In an editorial slapped across the front page of La Stampa, Massimo Gramellini said, “I would like to understand why a kiss between two gays…should offend our sensibilities more than scenes of heterosexual sex or bloodthirsty violence.” It’s a question worth asking, especially as Italian TV routinely broadcasts shows featuring stripping housewives and violent and saucy movies are screened uncut.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/3704470/Italian-TV-shows-Brokeback-Mountain-without-gay-scenes.html

Italian TV shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
Italy's state television censored Ang Lee's Brokeback Mountain when it aired the Oscar-winning movie by cutting scenes of gay sex.

Last Updated: 11:04PM GMT 10 Dec 2008



Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger, right, in a scene from the film Photo: AP

Gay rights activists protested that RAI TV would never have dropped similar scenes had they involved a heterosexual couple, and politicians called for the incident to be discussed in parliament.

RAI said it had aired the cut version by mistake.

Brokeback Mountain is a cowboy romance about two ranch-hand buddies who start an affair when they meet on the fictional mountain in the 1960s. The 2005 movie won three Oscars, including the best director award for Lee, as well as the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival.

RAI's second channel aired the film late Monday cutting out a sex scene and a sequence showing a kiss between the lead characters, played by the late Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal.

"I don't believe it was an oversight, I believe it was preventive censorship," said gay rights advocate and former lawmaker Vladimir Luxuria. In an interview with La Repubblica,  Mr Luxuria said cutting the key scenes was "like showing the Mona Lisa without its head".

RAI said in a statement the film had arrived from the distributor already cut so that it could be shown in prime time. When it was decided to air it late at night, no one checked for the uncut version, it said. RAI pledged to show the complete movie soon.

Some commentators and politicians were not satisfied, saying the cuts would not have been justified even if the film had been aired earlier.

"It is grotesque that RAI censored scenes that have the same content as those seen in most prime-time movies," Benedetto Della Vedova, a conservative politcian, was quoted as saying by the Corriere della Sera newspaper. Luigi Vimercati, a center-left lawmaker, told Corriere  he would take up the issue in parliament.

In overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Italy, skimpily dressed women are a fixture on many TV programs, while scenes of sex and violence in movies are generally left untouched.

Massimo Gramellini, a top commentator for La Stampa daily, wrote in a front-page editorial: "I would like to understand why a kiss between two gays ... should offend our sensibilities more than scenes of heterosexual sex or bloodthirsty violence."
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Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 02:05:51 pm »
This was in my newspaper today. Apparently RAI has already stated that it will broadcast the correct version of the movie soon. To be continued...
'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 02:34:32 pm »
This was in my newspaper today. Apparently RAI has already stated that it will broadcast the correct version of the movie soon. To be continued...

This is eerily similar to the hack job by Bravo we witnessed earlier this year. >:(

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Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 02:40:24 pm »
This is eerily similar to the hack job by Bravo we witnessed earlier this year. >:(



I was thinking the same thing. Which would make it more plausible that RAI was sent two copies of the movies and they didn't broadcast the correct version. Although it is disturbing to think that there are two versions out there. >:(



'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 04:17:12 pm »
I didn't want to watch it as Ennis and Jack speaking in Italian have never appealed to me, however I decided to watch some of it. It was aired at 22.45 hrs. When I realised TSN1 had been cancelled I was in total shock, appalled! TSN2 and the reunion kiss were cut too! You bet Lureen's and Alma's breasts were there though, in full view!  Besides, how could those who had never seen BbM before understand what was going on in the story!?!?
I was absolutely furious. I didn't wait for the film to finish I just left.  The day after I wrote an email of protest to RAI.

The uproar of protest was huge. I was so pleased when RAI general manager and RAI DUE (the channel which aired it) were forced to apologise. Are they in touch with what viewers want? I doubt!There will be another screening, this time  of the uncut version. In Italy if you own a TV you have to pay a TV licence to RAI, even if you don't watch it.  After paying a licence the least one would expect is a good product not this absurdity.

On Mediaset, the commercial TV channels belonging to the 'Berlusconi Empire', I have seen gay and lesbian movies, screened at approx. 23.00 hrs, with very explicit sex scenes, TSN1 being very innocent in comparison.


BbM, I swear

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 02:56:16 am »
I didn't want to watch it as Ennis and Jack speaking in Italian have never appealed to me, however I decided to watch some of it. It was aired at 22.45 hrs. When I realised TSN1 had been cancelled I was in total shock, appalled! TSN2 and the reunion kiss were cut too! You bet Lureen's and Alma's breasts were there though, in full view!  Besides, how could those who had never seen BbM before understand what was going on in the story!?!?
I was absolutely furious. I didn't wait for the film to finish I just left.  The day after I wrote an email of protest to RAI.

The uproar of protest was huge. I was so pleased when RAI general manager and RAI DUE (the channel which aired it) were forced to apologise. Are they in touch with what viewers want? I doubt!There will be another screening, this time  of the uncut version. In Italy if you own a TV you have to pay a TV licence to RAI, even if you don't watch it.  After paying a licence the least one would expect is a good product not this absurdity.

On Mediaset, the commercial TV channels belonging to the 'Berlusconi Empire', I have seen gay and lesbian movies, screened at approx. 23.00 hrs, with very explicit sex scenes, TSN1 being very innocent in comparison.




 :laugh:

I was wondering how they would sound. Did Ennis have a deep voice in italian too?
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Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 03:12:09 pm »
:laugh:

I was wondering how they would sound. Did Ennis have a deep voice in Italian too?

It isn't just  the voice that's different , the translation differs, some expressions wouldn't make sense in Italian.
From the other evening I remember Stemming the rose becaming picking daisies.

Edit: in the short story in Italian stemming the rose becomes ...while the two of you were having a good time.
BbM, I swear

Offline southendmd

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 03:38:08 pm »
How do they translate "Jack Nasty"? 

The French subtitles say "Jack Contre la Nature". LOL

Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 08:38:07 am »
How do they translate "Jack Nasty"? 

The French subtitles say "Jack Contre la Nature". LOL

In the movie I don't remember as I bought my DVD in the UK.
The short story in Italian translates it: Jack lo sporcaccione   -   Jack the filthy/dirty man.

BbM, I swear

Offline southendmd

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2008, 10:30:38 am »
Mille grazie, Sel.

"Jack lo sporcaccione ti ama!"

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 10:33:40 am »
It isn't just  the voice that's different , the translation differs, some expressions wouldn't make sense in Italian.
From the other evening I remember Stemming the rose becaming picking daisies.

Edit: in the short story in Italian stemming the rose becomes ...while the two of you were having a good time.


I'm so here with you Sel. The Germans made a moose out of the elk, in the story Jack said he missed Ennis so much he could molest a baby and so on. I think stemming the rose also became having a good time.


And for Paul: Jack Nasty was Jack, the pig in German. Given the usage of pig as a curseword in German, it actually fits pretty well.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2008, 11:01:23 am »
Wow, is that because some radical muslims do not want gay men kissing?

It  seems to me that Iltaly is known for love !

And now it will become anti-love ?

Shame !

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2008, 11:10:26 am »
I've never seen the Norwegian subtitles to the DVD but I have read the translation of the short story.

Jack Nasty has become "Jack ekling"  - ekling means "loathsome guy", so I guess that fits.

But "stemming the rose" has become uhm... I don't even know if I want to repeat it, a very derogatory slang word for having anal sex. So Aguirre is not allowed any poetic descriptive powers in the translation.

And by the way, "Putting the blocks to" is translated with the ugliest version word for "fucking".

There are more examples like that. Clearly the translator figured uneducated country folks should be heard using as direct and dirty language as possible - much of the ambiguities and the unexpected poetry have been lost.  :-\


BTW, Norway's biggest paper, VG, had an article on RAIs censoring of BBM and the subsequent Italian fallout and criticism today. But in truth, I think VG's giving this matter attention had less to do with wanting to preserve the integrity of an outstanding film, and much more to do with the fact that it offered the paper the opportunity to use the titillating word combination "gay sex" in the headline. ::)


Offline Artiste

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2008, 11:15:12 am »
So the     Norwegian        version is much more anti-gay ?

Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2008, 11:26:05 am »
IMHO translators can make a lot of difference to a book.

I am very glad the RAI – BbM issue has been reported on many foreign newspapers. Hopefully RAI will have learnt from this.

Mille grazie, Sel.

"Jack lo sporcaccione ti ama!"

Bravo! Perfect Italian.
BbM, I swear

Offline luigival

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2008, 05:24:56 pm »
Absolutely agree Sel!

At the very end the huge "mistake", or whatever it was, made by RAI will be good for BBM, because now the movie and the story are again spoken a lot about, with chances to attract more people to watch/read them, reinforcing their appeal and probably convincing even more people of the beauty of this unique masterpiece.

I missed - fortunately I must say - the RAI broadcast last monday. Would have been furious to see a "mutilated" version of BBM. Let's see if they will be brave enough and coherent with what they said and air it again.

Luigi
 
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Offline southendmd

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2008, 05:49:30 pm »
Please keep us informed, tutti Broki italiani!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2008, 07:37:35 pm »
Is italy starting to be taken over my Islam, such as muslims radicals and so fears love in films now as in the Brokeback Mountain movie or any other love story even between heterosexual man and woman !?

Offline optom3

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2008, 08:07:23 pm »
It is all very reminiscent of the Bravo fiasco, which drove me nuts. They cut so much, the 20 year enduring affair was simply not credible to the uninitiated viewer.

They changed the script as well, which was hardly a translation error.They just did not have the courage to show the real version. As with this instance an absoloute deluge of complaints followed  and Bravo apologised, saying they hd show the wrong version.

Where did this alleged 2nd version originate. Is it sanctioned by Lee et al. It all seems very odd.Same cuts and same excuse. !!!!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2008, 11:27:23 pm »
Merco optom!

Your posy says something!
......
So, optom, then:
Maybe, then there is a conspiracy ?

Even to show that gay men are not like humans, not worthy of human love ?

Many persons do think that gay men are like animals... not called humans! ?

Being a gay man, I have seen that !

Even on Bettermost, I have been told not use the word homosexual nor gay... by some, unfortunately!

So, (some of) those showing the Brokeback Mountain movie would do the same as it was on BRAVO and now in Italy: omit on purpose reference to gay love ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2008, 01:45:24 pm »
Absolutely agree Sel!

At the very end the huge "mistake", or whatever it was, made by RAI will be good for BBM, because now the movie and the story are again spoken a lot about, with chances to attract more people to watch/read them, reinforcing their appeal and probably convincing even more people of the beauty of this unique masterpiece.

I missed - fortunately I must say - the RAI broadcast last monday. Would have been furious to see a "mutilated" version of BBM. Let's see if they will be brave enough and coherent with what they said and air it again.

Luigi
 
Absolutely agree with you too Luigi!
Very happy that you stopped by and hope to 'see' more of you in the future.

Please keep us informed, tutti Broki italiani!
We will! Luigi is the first Italian Brokie I have met!


Where did this alleged 2nd version originate. Is it sanctioned by Lee et al. It all seems very odd.Same cuts and same excuse. !!!!

That's a very  good point! I bet there's no second version. They, RAI and Bravo, have  'mutilated' the only version.


BbM, I swear

Offline Artiste

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2008, 01:58:37 pm »
Such mutilation can we consider that as gay-bashing?

Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 04:16:36 am »
I am sooo excited!  :D  Have just found out that BbM will be aired again on 17th March, on RAI2! I should think this time is the uncut version as they promised. I am disappointed that it will be on after prime time though, at 23.40 hrs, I mean, there's plenty of sex on Italian TV all day long .....

A cut version of BbM was first aired on RAI2 last December, this caused a huge protest.

As much as I don't like watching Jack and Ennis speaking Italian (and I own two DVDs) I will watch it.

Will keep you posted ...
BbM, I swear

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 04:09:16 pm »
I am sooo excited!  :D  Have just found out that BbM will be aired again on 17th March, on RAI2! I should think this time is the uncut version as they promised. I am disappointed that it will be on after prime time though, at 23.40 hrs, I mean, there's plenty of sex on Italian TV all day long .....

A cut version of BbM was first aired on RAI2 last December, this caused a huge protest.

As much as I don't like watching Jack and Ennis speaking Italian (and I own two DVDs) I will watch it.

Will keep you posted ...


Good to know Friend!  Yes, definitely let us know if they show an un-edited version.  Taking out either TS1 or TS2 (and obviously the reunion kiss too) from BBM would make the movie's meaning sooooooooooo different.

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Offline Artiste

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 09:00:15 pm »
Let us know !

Vive la différence!

I pray those scenes will be added; so, do tell us afterwards !

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2009, 06:23:48 am »
To my knowledge Luigival and I are the only Bettermostians who live in Italy but just in case:
www.mymovies.it  emailed me the wrong info, have just checked RAI's teletext and BbM will be aired on Monday 16th, not 17th.

BbM, I swear

Offline sel

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2009, 04:28:50 am »
Happy to report that TSN1, TSN2 and the Reunion Kiss this time were included.  Alleluia!  :D
They kept their promise, although I hope future screenings of BbM will be on at prime time.

Some things I picked on with regard to the translation (Apologies in advance for my English):

The coyote with balls on him the size of apples became the coyote with balls on him the size of melons (in the short story in Italian they were apples too).

TSN2, with the I am sorry, All right, which I have never been sure about, to me, in Italian, becames even more confusing ...  :-\

What  are you waitin' for, cowboy? A mating call? A mating call becomes An invitation in writing.

Ennis running down the stairs saying Jack fucking Twist: Non ci speravo più a quest'ora, It's late, I'd given up hoping you'd come, which, IMHO, doesn't reflect at all the expression of happiness on Ennis's face.

Jack Nasty. In the movie Jack il deviato, Jack  the pervert, in the short story Jack lo Sporcaccione, Jack the Dirty/Filthy man.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Italian subtitles differ too. I bought my DVDs in the UK.

IMHO while the translator of the short story has done a very good job,  I wouldn't say so of the movie, somehow, I suppose, they have to match the lip movements. Moreover, they don't sound as rough-spoken as they are supposed to.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 09:52:33 am by sel »
BbM, I swear

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2009, 06:16:03 am »
Hey Sel, thanks for reporting back!

Happy to report that TSN1, TSN2 and the Reunion Kiss this time were included.  Alleluia!  :D
They kept their promise, although I hope future screenings of BbM will be on at prime time.

Yay!

Quote
Some things I picked on with regard to the translation (Apologies in advance for my English):

The coyote with balls on him the size of apples became the coyote with balls on him the size of melons (in the short story in Italian they were apples too).

 :o Melons?  :o That poor animal wouldn even be able to walk :laugh:.But it's damn funny.


Quote
Jack Nasty. In the movie Jack il deviato, Jack  the pervert, in the short story Jack lo Sporcaccione, Jack the Dirty/Filthy man.

In German, they made it Jack, the pig. Which is a pretty good equivalent.


Quote
I bought my DVDs in the UK.

Yup, better stick to the original.


Offline optom3

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Re: Italian TV (RAI) shows 'Brokeback Mountain' without gay scenes
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2009, 07:08:02 am »
This is eerily similar to the hack job by Bravo we witnessed earlier this year. >:(




It sure is, the same excuse as well, we showed that version by mistake !!!!

What makes me so mad is that the media treat us like idiots. Do they not know we live in a world of global communication and so word spreads fast.
Of course they do, which makes the excuse even more spurious. Same old same old.At least invent a new reason for showing the cut version.

Or better still, try the truth  for a change. now there's a novel idea.