Author Topic: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?  (Read 241166 times)

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #240 on: June 12, 2007, 05:44:21 pm »
Ryan,
I really liked that.
It got the tears going again but it really captures what Ennis must have felt.
I only saw the movie at the end of april so I am still in the early stages of my BBM mania! LOL
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #241 on: June 12, 2007, 07:07:48 pm »
Ryan,
I really liked that.
It got the tears going again but it really captures what Ennis must have felt.
I only saw the movie at the end of april so I am still in the early stages of my BBM mania! LOL


Anyone in an English speaking country who doesn't at least feel some sadness or have tears over Ennis and Jack, must be watching the moive in Chinese!   

New Brokies are a sign that the movie continues, as we all know it will, to impact people year after year. 

Welcome Fellow Brokie!
Rayn
« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 12:08:48 am by Rayn »

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #242 on: June 13, 2007, 04:43:00 pm »

Anyone in an English speaking country who doesn't at least feel some sadness or have tears over Ennis and Jack, must be watching the moive in Chinese!   

New Brokies are a sign that the movie continues, as we all know it will, to impact people year after year. 

Welcome Fellow Brokie!
Rayn


That is true!
I don't know how anyone can't be touched by the movie on some deep level.

Sorry for being Dyslexic! Rayn  ::)
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

RodneyFL

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #243 on: June 14, 2007, 01:13:01 pm »
Well, we all know that when Ennis speaks, and it is not all that often, he speaks volumes in a few words, both in the short story and in the film.  His uttering "Jack, I swear. . ." while looking at the shirts and card hanging there (film) in the closet and (ss) on the wall is so similar to other utterances from Ennis that are incomplete.  Here is where both the visual image and the textual imagery may combine to help us in this crucial moment at the end of film and story. We see in the film and read in the text the presence of stinging tears when he looks at the shirts on the hangar.  We see that he makes a few adjustments (snaps and straightens), mutters, "Jack, I swear...." and then straightens the post card which was crooked.  He couldn't stand it crooked, so he fixed it.  I firmly believe that through this partial vow he uttered, he swore to Jack that he was going to fix his life.  We already had an inkling that Ennis' firm resolve was beginning to cave at the confrontation scene (film) when he tearfully exclaimed, "Honestly Jack I can't stand this anymore."  This is where we have a major departure from short story to film, the very conclusion of the film to me gives me hope that Ennis is vowing to make his love for Jack count for something, something that he has yet to figure out.  I don't quite feel that hope at the end of the short story.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #244 on: June 14, 2007, 03:59:53 pm »
We already had an inkling that Ennis' firm resolve was beginning to cave at the confrontation scene (film) when he tearfully exclaimed, "Honestly Jack I can't stand this anymore."  This is where we have a major departure from short story to film, the very conclusion of the film to me gives me hope that Ennis is vowing to make his love for Jack count for something, something that he has yet to figure out.  I don't quite feel that hope at the end of the short story.

Couldn't agree more. Thanks for bringing up Ennis' "Jack, I can't stand this anymore" at the end of the lake side argument. I feel that it is *so* important, but somehow often gets overlooked.

This confession by Ennis, together with the pie scene in the diner and some other things, makes me absolutely sure that things would have turned for the better, had Jack lived.

But after more than a year gone by, I still haven't figured out if this makes the story even sadder or less sad...
For me personally, I think less sad.

Sorry for digessing here.

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #245 on: June 14, 2007, 04:10:21 pm »
Couldn't agree more. Thanks for bringing up Ennis' "Jack, I can't stand this anymore" at the end of the lake side argument. I feel that it is *so* important, but somehow often gets overlooked.

This confession by Ennis, together with the pie scene in the diner and some other things, makes me absolutely sure that things would have turned for the better, had Jack lived.

But after more than a year gone by, I still haven't figured out if this makes the story even sadder or less sad...
For me personally, I think less sad.

Sorry for digessing here.

For me it makes it sadder because he came to his realization too late.
He never got the chance to show Jack.  :'(
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #246 on: June 14, 2007, 04:43:52 pm »
Here's another possibility. We've talked about this scene being a bookend for the scene in Aguirre's trailer -- both take place in trailers, Jr. is 19 just like Ennis was, etc. We've also talked about how the Aguirre's trailer scene is like a wedding ceremony, Jack and Ennis coming together on paper, with Aguirre as the pastor, the camp tender and herder instructions like the "love honor and obey" stuff, the watch the ring, the handshake the kiss, and so on.

Well, in that scenario, maybe by saying "I swear," Ennis is at last bringing closure to the ceremony, finally saying "I do."



Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #247 on: June 20, 2007, 04:49:20 am »
Hmmmmm, interesting, but I feel a bit like my imagination is being stretched like salt water taffy to pull it off!  But then, I say things that make people's imaginations do back flips, so...  hmmmmmm, not sure why I can't go more a than a mile or two with this one, but again, it's interesting.  But I hate to disagree without offering an alternative view.  Perhaps where love is concerned, I look for something more traditional-- if such can be applied to male lovers...

When Jack and Ennis are talking about the future and present in the first campsite by the brook and Jack makes his actual "proposal" with "You know, it could be like this, just like this always.."   They talk about past and present situations, feelings, Alma etc with Ennis saying no, "It ain't gonna be like that."  But in the end, Ennis does give in as long as the bond is on his terms i.e. "... together, way out in the middle of nowhere"....  And Jack asks, "For how long?"  Ennis, "For as long as we can ride it. There ain't no reins on this one".    Always... as long as we can ride it...  Then Jack leans over and caresses Ennis which amounts to "the wedding kiss" without a bride! That, to me, is the commitment vows and ceremony, done alone between the two of them because, "Ain't nobody's business but ours".   Their relationship did not allow other people in and in the end it was other people who brought it to crisis and ended it, other people and the intense emotional tensions between the two of them ended it.

The strange but characteristic thing about Ennis' contradictions, is the fact that Ennis knows "There ain't no reins on this one..." meaning he can't deny or control his feelings for Jack  but he places reins on the relationship from the beginning and they have  to deal with them. Ennis even blames Jack in the end for those limits that cause so much hardship.  "It's 'cause of you, Jack, I'm like this..."

Ennis is so pure and so messed in so many ways...  but I love him anyway.    Like I've  admitted... I'm a "Jack at Heart"---  It is remarkable  though that they had a love for each other for 20 or more years under those limited conditions.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2007, 04:55:02 am by Rayn »

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #248 on: June 20, 2007, 04:53:27 am »
Here's another possibility. We've talked about this scene being a bookend for the scene in Aguirre's trailer -- both take place in trailers, Jr. is 19 just like Ennis was, etc. We've also talked about how the Aguirre's trailer scene is like a wedding ceremony, Jack and Ennis coming together on paper, with Aguirre as the pastor, the camp tender and herder instructions like the "love honor and obey" stuff, the watch the ring, the handshake the kiss, and so on.

Well, in that scenario, maybe by saying "I swear," Ennis is at last bringing closure to the ceremony, finally saying "I do."


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Offline loneleeb3

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #249 on: June 20, 2007, 07:57:29 am »
Quote
It is remarkable  though that they had a love for each other for 20 or more years under those limited conditions.
So true! I have heard it said that "Love will not be denied" and this is proof of that.
Through all the limitations of Time, distance and Ennis' self imposed regulation it still managed to flourish.
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"