Author Topic: Gay Rights In The United States?  (Read 10080 times)

Offline David In Indy

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Gay Rights In The United States?
« on: July 07, 2006, 09:33:04 pm »
What do you think? Members from other countries are also welcome to vote! I would love to hear their opinions too!

Lately, it seems every time the United States takes one step forward towards Gay Rights, it then takes 1 or 2 steps back. Discussions of Gay Marriage Bans are back in the spotlight. Advocates for Gay Marriage were shot down once again in two states this week. In my home state of Indiana, Hoosiers will vote on a statewide ban on Gay Marriage and there is great expectations it will pass with flying colors. Sexual Orientation is not considered a valid form of discrimination in many states leaving open loopholes for many employers to fire gay people simply because of their sexual orientation. Gay bashing is not considered a hate crime in many U.S. states. Often times gay people are denied a place of residence (such as renting an apartment) due to their orientation. Gay people are not openly welcome in many churches, and not welcome at all in others. Disparaging messages are being recorded on people's answering machines.

I was in Circuit City yesterday, and every one of their copies of Brokeback Mountain was sitting under the shelf, out of view.  I asked one of the clerks why this was, and he said the representative made this decision. He then added the movie wasn't selling  anyway.

Perhaps some of these things are only happening in my little corner of the United States, but I often wonder if I will ever see the day when my fellow Americans view me as their equal.

Will it ever happen? ???
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 09:35:27 pm by David925 »
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vkm91941

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2006, 01:58:21 am »
I remain hopeful that this will happen in my life time.  That hope continues to be bolstered by the voters in places like California  where 76% of voters vote in support of Gays rights.   I remember that buffoon Bill O'Reilly saying Brokeback Mountain would not play in the heartland, that it would not play in Wyoming.  He was wrong it was a rousing success in all those markets.  Attitudes are changing, more and more people are sickened by hate crimes, more and more people are beginning to adopt a live and let live mentallity, but it is so slow and I am not a patient woman.   :-\

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2006, 01:40:00 pm »
I think it will happen.  It might take longer than we like, but it will happen.  It's already happening overseas in Western countries, and some states in this country are already moving in that direction.

Sadly, sometimes it takes an older generation with their life-long prejudices to die off before change can happen.

It took how long to give women and ethnic people the right to vote in this country?  150 years?  And even though they/we are now supposedly 'equal' under the law, the prejudices and double standards are still alive and well.

It might take a while for gays to be recognized as 'equal' citizens, but I fear the prejudices will last a lot longer.

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2006, 07:45:08 pm »
So far it seems slightly over half of those voting (7) feel major changes towards gay rights will occur in the U.S. within the next 20 years.

6 people who voted (myself included) feel it will take more than 20 years to see major changes, or it will not happen in their lifetime.

Thanks to everyone who voted, and thanks to Victoria and delalluvia for posting their comments! :)
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mvansand76

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2006, 06:27:22 am »
I sure hope they come to their senses sooner, though, but I am not sure they will, they should maybe take a look at the Netherlands...?

Offline wulfar360

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2006, 01:32:18 pm »
alhtought i voted "not in my lifetime"   after reading af ew of theses posts i alittle more optomistic
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 11:56:51 pm »
I sure hope they come to their senses sooner, though, but I am not sure they will, they should maybe take a look at the Netherlands...?

Melissa, I absolutely agree with you. Many gay Americans do look to the Netherlands as a Promised Land and hope to see the tolerance evident in your country manifest itself here in the U.S. too. Unfortunately even though things are changing in many parts of the U.S., lack of change is the norm in others. Progress is slow. But any progress is better than no progress at all, I suppose.

I was listening to that stupid Bill O'Reilly again the other night (why do I even listen to him at all?) and he was trying to tie increased drug use and crime to legalized gay marriage. He pointed to the Netherlands as an example. Well, I am glad I did watch him that night. I sent him the nastiest, most evil email I have ever wrote in my life. How dare he say those things? How dare he attack gay marriage like that? And how dare he say those awful things about the Netherlands? But it shouldn't have surprised me. He says stupid things all the time.

But this is just another example of what we are up against in this country. I read something on IMDb the other day I found very disheartening. It said that gay rights will never be tolerated in this country until Christianity is totally devalued and Christian beliefs have been driven from the country. That makes me really sad.   :'(

I have hope. Things are changing in some parts of the country. I hope more and more people continue to look towards the Netherlands, Canada and a handful of other countries for examples. Gay people are people too. It's a shame when some feel that I am less than human simply because of my sexual orientation.  :(
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 12:01:18 am »
alhtought i voted "not in my lifetime"   after reading af ew of theses posts i alittle more optomistic

Yes. We must always try to be optimistic.

And hope... and hope... and hope.....  :)
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Giancarlo

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2006, 06:42:41 pm »
Even with the fair share of bigots in this country, you must admit we have come a long way. Not as far as Spain has in the past thirty years, and speaking of Spain, what they have accomplished with equal rights is just plain remarkable. We would be treated like criminals and jailed in Spain thirty five years ago. Now Spain went from that policy to a pro-gay marriage stance. Anyways, back to the United States... there have been progress made in this country and we have to continue pushing our equal rights cause. People will try to block us, but we must never let them.

"he was trying to tie increased drug use and crime to legalized gay marriage. He pointed to the Netherlands as an example."

That man is sick in the head. In Spain, crime is low, and drug use is low... and we legalized gay marriage.

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2006, 08:51:14 pm »
That man is sick in the head. In Spain, crime is low, and drug use is low... and we legalized gay marriage.

Yes. We too have a huge drug problem in the United States, crime is very high in some areas of the country (much higher here than in the Netherlands), and Gay Marriage is not legal here.

Bill O'Reilly's argument was totally invalid. The man is an absolute idiot.  >:(

But it's not the first time he's made a complete ass out of himself.
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Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2006, 11:55:27 pm »
I voted 10-20 years.  I'm in Northern California, and I see a day in the very near future when gay people will have all the rights we straight people take for granted.  Well, at least I can dream.  But I must admit, being gay in my home town is not really an issue.  California is working toward equality for its gay citizens, and I'm sure I'll live to see it.  David, I hope I'm making sense.  I've had a long day! :)

Offline ZouBEini

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2006, 12:04:43 am »
I voted 10-20 years.  I'm in Northern California, and I see a day in the very near future when gay people will have all the rights we straight people take for granted.  Well, at least I can dream.  But I must admit, being gay in my home town is not really an issue.  California is working toward equality for its gay citizens, and I'm sure I'll live to see it.  David, I hope I'm making sense.  I've had a long day! :)

I'm not David, but you're making perfect sense, Littlewing!  I also voted 10-20. Hopefully it will be less but I'm concerned it may be longer if we keep going in the current direction.

~Larz

Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2006, 12:29:07 am »
I'm not David, but you're making perfect sense, Littlewing!  I also voted 10-20. Hopefully it will be less but I'm concerned it may be longer if we keep going in the current direction.

~Larz

Thanks, sweetheart!  I agree with everything you just said!

Offline ZouBEini

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2006, 12:38:51 am »
But of course we're in agreement, Littlewing!   :-*

It's a vampire thing!   :laugh:

~Larz

Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2006, 01:37:18 am »
You bet! :)

Offline JT

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2006, 12:52:22 pm »
I choose 20-50 yrs.  I think what you choose depends on where you live.  People in CA or NY are usually more optimistic than those from WY.  But for the whole country to be fair, it'll take plenty of time.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2007, 12:50:26 pm »
.....interesting discussion......To some degree, state-by-state, some "Gay/Lesbian Rights" exist now. Because the US has a Federal system of government, some states and localities show more enlightenment on this issue than others. Some localities have granted legal protection / status to "domestic partnerships", including granting benefits and recognition to Gay/Lesbian public employees. Many corporations and businesses have granted recognition and benefits to their private sector employees.
A few years back when the US Supreme Court struck down the Texas Sodomy law, homosexual acts between consenting adults were in effect decriminalized throughout the US. But, that doesn't mean that Gays/Lesbians have been granted equal rights in their relationships. Obviously not. In the last few years several municipalities, counties, and at least one state have taken the first steps towards granting recognition of same-sex unions. These have been wonderful events, but these attempts to grant equal civil status to Gay/Lesbian unions HAVE YET TO SURVIVE the inevitable court and legislative challenges from those who do not wish to see full "Gay Rights" in the US.
My own belief is that in the next few years ( 5-10 ), a consensus will be reached in a majority of states and localities across the US that the same sex union issue is an issue that should be decided by local option. What that could mean is, the voters and their elected representatives in all of the states and counties around the US could be given the right to democratically decide by electoral referenda whether or not to grant equal status to same sex unions. I think that it is clear looking at the Red/Blue mix on the US electoral map that there are localities and even states where the electors would affirm same sex unions this very day. But there are many more areas that will not. I live in Ft.Worth,TX. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind that the voters in Tarrant County Texas would vote down granting same sex unions. But, I look south to Austin,TX and have a suspicion that Travis County might vote for same sex unions. There is not a doubt in my mind that San Francisco or Manhattan would vote for same sex unions. There is historical precidence for the US Congress allowing each of the states decision making power on imporatant social issues. The prime example is the repeal of the Prohibition laws in 1933. The US Congress in repealing Prohibition allowed each of the states the authority to hold referenda on whether or not to be "wet" or "dry". Here in Texas, the State Legislature allowed each of the 254 counties in Texas to hold individual elections on this matter. The voters of the time decided this issue. Today in Texas you have a crazy quilt of "wet" and "dry" counties. I grew up in a "dry" county, but you could buy liquor 20 miles up the road in a "wet" county. 
Of course, a decision from the Supreme Court federalizing the issue and granting same sex unions legal status nation-wide is preferable to the above option....but I don't see that happening.
As a Gay man I believe that Gays and Lesbians will not be fully accepted until we have been granted full equality with same sex unions. However, accepting individuals are towards us, we are strangers in our own land until the day that the American voters democratically grant us equality under the law. I am now a man in his 50's, I grew up in the 1960's and saw emormous changes in attitudes towards the civil rights of African Americans right in my home town, I went off to college in the hopeful 1970's and during those moments that I was thinking clearly and not partying in discos and other places, I thought that full equality was just around the corner. Well, now I am an older man in my early 50's and 6 months from retirement.....and I'm still hopeful. I think I will live to see full equality granted. But I have learned patience. I have learned that we must CHANGE HEARTS one at a time. And, for those of us like Jack and Ennis who have been wounded by homophobia and the closet, we must HEAL HEARTS one at a time.

Offline Kelda

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2007, 03:22:52 pm »
Just seeing this for the first time - I voted 5-10. Like racial equality - it's guaranteed in time that laws and (the majority of) public opinion turns around. I look forward to that date..
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2007, 09:49:29 pm »

I'm an inveterate optimist!  :D

However, having said that, I'm also a realist. And for that reason, I voted "I won't live to see it happen." It saddened me to do so.  :'(

I saw a documentary about fundamentalist Christianity (as practised in the USA), on TV recently and it didn't leave me with much cause for hope.  :-\

Jesus said, "Judge not lest ye be judged, for as ye judge so shall ye be judged." 
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2007, 02:39:24 am »
I'm an inveterate optimist!  :D

However, having said that, I'm also a realist. And for that reason, I voted "I won't live to see it happen." It saddened me to do so.  :'(

I saw a documentary about fundamentalist Christianity (as practised in the USA), on TV recently and it didn't leave me with much cause for hope.  :-\

Jesus said, "Judge not lest ye be judged, for as ye judge so shall ye be judged." 

I think you're correct, Kerry! And I don't think I'll ever see it either. Nor will my niece and nephew, nor will their children. Nor will the generation after that.... or after that.

Contrary to popular belief, I was listening to a segment WTHR was doing earlier this summer. According to WTHR Channel 13 (NBC) in Indianapolis, homophobia is on the RISE in Indiana, and the American Midwest. Can you believe that? White youths and gangs are more frequently targeting gay people. We are NOT becoming less homophobic here; we are becoming MORE homophobic. I also heard homophobia is on an increase in western Europe too. And although the Muslims there are very intolerant of gay people (just as they are here in the US), it is the white youth over there who are becoming increasingly intolerant. I am waiting to hear from a European friend about this, but I suspect it is probably true. In many ways, the world takes one step forward and two steps back. Over here in the US, people seem okay with gay people (sort of) until the government starts advocating more rights for gay Americans. Then suddenly, there is an uproar. It's almost as if many Americans are kind of "okay" with gay people as long as they don't have any rights. But once there is the slightest chance of gay Americans having any rights at all, THEN everyone suddenly becomes hostile.

Has anyone else noticed this? If not, watch! Watch closely. You'll soon see what I'm talking about.  :'(  >:(
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2007, 08:48:44 am »
I think you're correct, Kerry! And I don't think I'll ever see it either. Nor will my niece and nephew, nor will their children. Nor will the generation after that.... or after that.

Contrary to popular belief, I was listening to a segment WTHR was doing earlier this summer. According to WTHR Channel 13 (NBC) in Indianapolis, homophobia is on the RISE in Indiana, and the American Midwest. Can you believe that? White youths and gangs are more frequently targeting gay people. We are NOT becoming less homophobic here; we are becoming MORE homophobic. I also heard homophobia is on an increase in western Europe too. And although the Muslims there are very intolerant of gay people (just as they are here in the US), it is the white youth over there who are becoming increasingly intolerant. I am waiting to hear from a European friend about this, but I suspect it is probably true. In many ways, the world takes one step forward and two steps back. Over here in the US, people seem okay with gay people (sort of) until the government starts advocating more rights for gay Americans. Then suddenly, there is an uproar. It's almost as if many Americans are kind of "okay" with gay people as long as they don't have any rights. But once there is the slightest chance of gay Americans having any rights at all, THEN everyone suddenly becomes hostile.

Has anyone else noticed this? If not, watch! Watch closely. You'll soon see what I'm talking about.  :'(  >:(

Yes, David, I've noticed it.

When I was in my teens and it was probably becoming more and more obvious to everyone (except me!) which direction my sexuality was headed, I remember a relative taking me aside one day and advising me, "Do whatever you like, just don't flaunt it!" I didn't know what he meant at the time, but I do now. He meant that he didn't give a f*ck about whether I was a poof or not, just so long as I kept it quiet and lived a lie. It seemed to be very important to him that I didn't embarrass the family. The validity of my life and my personal worth as an individual meant nothing to him.

It's the same with what you were saying, David. Everyone's okay with the gay thing, so long as we're quiet, subservient little fags who are keeping their mouths shut and not making any demands. When we do speak up for ourselves, they come down on us like a ton of bricks.

It's been said before and I'll say it again, "We don't want special treatment, we just want equal treatment."

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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2007, 10:05:04 pm »
Yes, David, I've noticed it.

When I was in my teens and it was probably becoming more and more obvious to everyone (except me!) which direction my sexuality was headed, I remember a relative taking me aside one day and advising me, "Do whatever you like, just don't flaunt it!" I didn't know what he meant at the time, but I do now. He meant that he didn't give a f*ck about whether I was a poof or not, just so long as I kept it quiet and lived a lie. It seemed to be very important to him that I didn't embarrass the family. The validity of my life and my personal worth as an individual meant nothing to him.
It's the same with what you were saying, David. Everyone's okay with the gay thing, so long as we're quiet, subservient little fags who are keeping their mouths shut and not making any demands. When we do speak up for ourselves, they come down on us like a ton of bricks.

It's been said before and I'll say it again, "We don't want special treatment, we just want equal treatment."



Oh, you had the old "embarrassment to the family" routine pulled on you too, Kerry? So did I. It took me another 18 years before I had the courage to tell them again. By then, I didn't give a shit anymore. I was tired of hiding it and carrying it around like a monkey on my back. When I told them the second time, I fully expected to be thrown out of the family (that is one of the things I was threatened with the first time I told them) but they were more understanding. I suppose they had 18 years to think about it, and times had changed a little bit too.

That whole "embarrassment to the family" comment is a real kick in the ass, isn't it Kerry?  >:(

[[[Kerry]]]  :-*
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Offline Kerry

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2007, 09:42:04 am »
Oh, you had the old "embarrassment to the family" routine pulled on you too, Kerry? So did I. It took me another 18 years before I had the courage to tell them again. By then, I didn't give a shit anymore. I was tired of hiding it and carrying it around like a monkey on my back. When I told them the second time, I fully expected to be thrown out of the family (that is one of the things I was threatened with the first time I told them) but they were more understanding. I suppose they had 18 years to think about it, and times had changed a little bit too.

That whole "embarrassment to the family" comment is a real kick in the ass, isn't it Kerry?  >:(

[[[Kerry]]]  :-*

I was lucky in that the only two people in my family whose opinion I cared about were my parents, and they loved me unconditionally, as I loved them. I was so blessed with the parents I had and I still miss them every day. Alas, the same can't be said of certain other members of my clan. I don't give a f*ck about them now, but it was difficult when I was a youngster. And a (over) sensitive, gay youngster at that.  :-\
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Offline Artiste

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2008, 08:55:51 pm »
Wow, such difficulties!

WE, all gays and others in the whole world, need to help gays in the USA!!

WE, gays in the USA, need to help too, gays and others!!

Hugs!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2008, 11:41:51 am »
Will any like Clinton, Obama, Mc Cain help for gay rights ??

What do you think?

May I ask ...

au revoir,
hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2008, 11:46:04 pm »
Will any like Clinton, Obama, Mc Cain help for gay rights ??

What do you think?

May I ask ...

au revoir,
hugs!

is that your Jonquil painting? you like flowers a lot. are they symbolic to you?

Offline Artiste

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Re: Gay Rights In The United States?
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2008, 11:53:05 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

Yes, that are some of my flowers as subjects paintings I created !!

And jonquills/daffodils/narcissus are joys for me, mainly because I am a gay man, and it's a gay symbol pour moi, yes for me!!

Thought I had read that iit is for gays ?? Did you?
............

Maybe it should be our gay flower in the USA, Canada, etc., in our democratic countries as the rainbow flag is to us all?
.......

And use it as to ask for gay rights in the USA ?

Au revoir,
hugs!