Author Topic: Can we please have an end to the ranting?  (Read 5909 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« on: July 14, 2006, 07:56:49 pm »
Folks,

I've copied the quote below from a post on a particular thread on this "Anything Goes" board.

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OK – please indulge my little rant… I hate going to extraneous things that just aren’t “Brokeback Mountain.”  To me, BBM is the film as we see it with our eyes and hear it with our ears.  The short story, the screenplay, the script, comments from Proulx, Lee, the actors… it’s all just speculation and interpretation.  The film does not follow the short story, the screenplay, or the script in every way, and in many instances, not in key ways.  Facts were changed and cannot be translated from any one to any one of the others.  Same with motivations – except for “well, possibly what’s going on here…”  But that’s no different than any other interpretation any one else would come up with.  The people involved have all said many things about BBM.  Too often, they contradict each other and they contradict themselves.  Too often, they change their story over time.  And one of the biggest offenders in this regard is Proulx.  Yes, she’s the author of the short story, but she’s not the author of the film.  Even Lee’s intentions for what he wanted to do with the film and get across through the film did not all come to pass.  The film is as we see and hear it.  It’s not fair to try and change what we see and hear by going to extraneous sources.

I hope the poster feels better after having vented.

Now it's time for me to vent in a plea to end the ranting.

I came to "Bettermost" months ago with the "Chez Tremblay" folks who got run off IMDb by the trolls. I've seen many folks come and go from "Bettermost" in that time. I've read lots of insightful, thought-provoking posts--even including some opinions with which I did not agree. Everyone who comes here is entitled to his or her own opinion about Brokeback Mountain--and also, I submit, about what is legitimate source material for formulating an understanding of Brokeback Mountain.

Individuals such as the poster whom I've quoted above have every right to focus entirely on the film and not take other Brokeback materials, such as Annie Proulx's original story, into consideration. I submit, however, that those of us who feel differently have as much right to our opinion that the story, or earlier drafts of the screenplay, or interviews with or essays by members of the film's creative team, are legitimate sources to take into consideration in seeking insights for formulating one's interpretations.

I'm sure those who wish to focus solely on the film want their views respected. I only request that, in turn, they respect the views of those who differ from them, and please stop the lectures. We are all entitled to our views, and are entitled to be respected. Rants such as the one quoted above are not constructive. They are not conducive to conversation or to community. And to put it bluntly, in my opinion, they are rude and disrespectful.

None of us is any more or less right in our approach than anyone else. Can we please just agree to disagree, treat each other with respect and courtesy, and have an end to the rants? They're getting a little old.

And, incidentally, I submit that since Brokeback Mountain was not made from an original screenplay created entirely by Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana, but was in fact adapted from Annie Proulx's story, then the original story is hardly "extraneous material."
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Kajunite

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2006, 08:02:43 pm »
Hear! Hear!  Well said!  Thanks!

Offline David

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2006, 08:18:23 pm »
Damn,  I never get to rant.     :-\

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2006, 09:19:44 pm »
Hi!

I’m the original poster of what Jeff Wrangler quoted.

You said:

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Everyone who comes here is entitled to his or her own opinion about Brokeback Mountain--and also, I submit, about what is legitimate source material for formulating an understanding of Brokeback Mountain.

And


Quote
Individuals such as the poster whom I've quoted above have every right to focus entirely on the film and not take other Brokeback materials, such as Annie Proulx's original story, into consideration. I submit, however, that those of us who feel differently have as much right to our opinion that the story, or earlier drafts of the screenplay, or interviews with or essays by members of the film's creative team, are legitimate sources to take into consideration in seeking insights for formulating one's interpretations.

OK.  So I am entitled to my opinion and I have a right to focus entirely on the film…


Quote
…and please stop the lectures.

…but I should not post my opinion?

At what point did my expressed opinion become a “lecture?"

I posted my opinion at a point in a thread where my opinion on the subject was germane – in response to a poster who had referenced the screenplay.  Did I miss the thread where we’re all supposed to post on this subject exclusive of all other places?


Quote
“lectures”

What about my expression of my opinion turns it into a “lecture?”

Let’s look at what I said:

OK – please indulge my little rant…  --- is this not self-deprecating?  Or conciliatory?  Or apologetic?  Also, did I not say “Sorry for that” as the start of my very next paragraph?  And, when you read my other posts in that thread, do you not see that I respect others’ opinions?  If you see disrespect from me to others’ opinions, please quote them here and I’ll eat my words.  Promise.

I hate going to extraneous things that just aren’t “Brokeback Mountain.” --- is this not my opinion?  Did I say I hate it when *you* go to… ?

To me, BBM is the film as we see it with our eyes and hear it with our ears. --- “To me, …” --- is this not my opinion?  But maybe I later say that I think this opinion should be imposed on others?  Let’s continue and we’ll look for it…

The short story, the screenplay, the script, comments from Proulx, Lee, the actors… it’s all just speculation and interpretation.  The film does not follow the short story, the screenplay, or the script in every way, and in many instances, not in key ways.  Facts were changed and cannot be translated from any one to any one of the others.  Same with motivations – except for “well, possibly what’s going on here…”  But that’s no different than any other interpretation any one else would come up with.  The people involved have all said many things about BBM.  Too often, they contradict each other and they contradict themselves.  Too often, they change their story over time.  And one of the biggest offenders in this regard is Proulx.  Yes, she’s the author of the short story, but she’s not the author of the film.  Even Lee’s intentions for what he wanted to do with the film and get across through the film did not all come to pass.  The film is as we see and hear it.  It’s not fair to try and change what we see and hear by going to extraneous sources.

Are not all of these statements my opinions?  And, although I did not link to supporting evidence for each statement, are they not *almost* all statements for which I could go link to supporting evidence and then someone else could come along and disagree?

Did I say that this view should be imposed on others?


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I'm sure those who wish to focus solely on the film want their views respected. I only request that, in turn, they respect the views of those who differ from them,…

How does what you quoted of mine show that I do not respect the views of those who differ?


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We are all entitled to our views,

But we’re not entitled to post them?  And I would even add, “respectfully.”


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Rants such as the one quoted above are not constructive. They are not conducive to conversation or to community.

I must disagree.  It was constructive in that it let the other people who read and post to that thread know what my opinions are on the subject.  It was conducive to conversation because it opened a new line of discussion that anyone could respond to and then I could respond, back and forth.  In fact, didn’t it actually start this very thread up?  And here we are, going back and forth, discussing – community.  Not to mention, it sparked your saying this:

Quote
And, incidentally, I submit that since Brokeback Mountain was not made from an original screenplay created entirely by Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana, but was in fact adapted from Annie Proulx's story, then the original story is hardly "extraneous material."

Unfortunately, it seems we’re discussing an opinion that you seem to be saying you would rather I not have the right to post.


Quote
And to put it bluntly, in my opinion, they are rude and disrespectful.

Please elaborate.  I have shown above that they are simply my opinions, and that I was self-deprecating and apologetic.  Is it because I called it a “rant?’  Is it because I didn’t say “Oh, oh… here’s where I get my butt kicked…” as I have said any of a number of times in other posts?

Which is more “rude” and “disrespectful”:

--- to post opinions that, in their very words, are self-deprecating and apologetic; and, are constructive and conducive to conversation and community

--or--

--- to post a quote from someone else in an entirely new thread instead of responding in the original thread (or sending a PM) and calling it “rude” and “disrespectful” without elaborating and saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and has a right to focus on the film in his or her own way… but as far as being able to post it… not *this* one.

I think this is a valid question.


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Can we please just agree to disagree, treat each other with respect and courtesy, and have an end to the rants?

Perhaps you should take the first step in this direction.  I have always remained on this path.


You told me why you came to this forum, so I’ll tell you why I came to this forum.  I started reading threads and posts over here for about a week before I joined.  I joined because I liked what I saw.  I liked the insight.  I really liked the thoughtfulness that people put into their posts.  I liked the give and take.  I liked the fact that everyone posted in a different way with a different style – some people would just drop a comment in here or there, others would state their opinions at length and with ownership – and everything in between.  What I liked most of all is that everyone seemed to go along with this and accept each person for who they were and how they posted and for what they had to say.

I intended nothing more in my *self-described* rant than to express my opinion.  I intended no disrespect.  Looking objectively at what I wrote, I believe I accomplished both goals. 

If you read through the entire thread you will see that one poster was the victim of a vicious attack in a PM – the poster was accused of being rude and arrogant and having an attitude.  The poster has consistently displayed throughout all of her posts over time that this was a wholly unwarranted attack.  I have been the recipient of a similar PM from the same person.  And now this thread of yours.  To be honest, I haven’t gotten to know many people here.  There seems to be a core group who post in the threads I’m interested in.  You are one of those people.  I have always liked your posts and found them insightful – even though you and I have agreed and disagreed on various points.  But now, after those two PM attacks and this thread, I must admit I’m getting disillusioned about why I came here.  Maybe I didn’t do my homework very well.


Quote
I hope the poster feels better after having vented.

Nope.  Not me.  And you?






« Last Edit: July 14, 2006, 09:21:46 pm by ruthlesslyunsentimental »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2006, 10:34:01 pm »
Quote
It’s not fair to try and change what we see and hear by going to extraneous sources.

This is not a comment about the film. This is a comment about another person's approach to understanding the film. It is an accusation that the other person is not being "fair." This is your opinion, to which you are entitled, but it is expressed in a way that is an attack on the person to whom it is addressed. That is disrespectful of another member of our community.

I started this thread because I felt there was a larger issue at stake here, of posts that are framed or worded in ways that show disrespect for the views of others. Your post was just an example. This was not intended to be a personal attack on you, thus I just copied the post and left you, personally, out of it. You "outed" yourself here. I must have struck a nerve to provoke such a lengthy response.

And if you want my opinion, then here it is: We all have a right to disagree with other members of our community, and even to pose counter-arguments to show why we disagree, but, no, none of us has a right to write in a way that is disrespectful of other members of our community.

And I feel fine, thank you very much.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline dly64

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2006, 10:46:48 pm »
Hey guys! I am just throwing in my opinion ...

I have the deepest respect for both of your (Jeff's and Ruthlessly's) opinion. You both bring up great ideas and insight and I love reading what you have to say. We don't always agree ... and, IMO, that's part of the fun. I enjoy debating! Jeff - you and I like to use materials like the short story, screenplay and quotes from other sources. Ruthlessly, you like to look at the film as its own entity. It doesn’t mean either one is right or wrong. It’s just that we have our own approach. I personally have not been offended by anything either of you have written. 

What I see as the beauty of this film is that we all interpret it in our own way. We bring in our own background, thoughts, POV. Sometimes I feel very strongly about an idea, other times I am flexible. It certainly does not mean that I expect others to agree with what I have to say. I have not gotten the opinion that anyone else has, either. That’s the fun of this forum and talking with all of you. You all give me “food for thought”. Sometimes it helps me to see something in a different way. Other times, I can’t be swayed.

I am hopeful that this misunderstanding can be resolved. I value you guys too much! I don’t want to “quit” either of you! (or anyone else on this board, for that matter!)  ;)

 
Diane

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2006, 02:05:00 am »
Just a reminder

Topic: Hey Folks... A Gentle Reminder About the Open Forum...  (Read 51 times) 

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  Hey Folks... A Gentle Reminder About the Open Forum...
« on: July 13, 2006, 12:23:06 pm »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From time to time I like to remind folks about how we've set up the Open Forum, and with a lot of new people coming in, now is a good time to bring this back to the table.

I want to remind everyone who has been profoundly affected by this movie that it's an emotionally overwhelming experience (as if you needed a reminder!)  I think a lot of us who have come away from seeing it are quite emotionally fragile because of its impact on us, and we are prone to being fiercely protective of how we interpret the meaning of the film.  But each of us will interpret this film in different ways, based on our own experiences and feelings.

It is very important to me that we have respect and tolerance for a wide variety of views about the film.  You may agree or disagree with what others have shared as their personal intepretations, but I'd consider it a major favor if everyone maintains respect for these different views.  And with the emotional impact on our lives, in a life-changing way, it can be destructive to our collective and individual journeys forward if those feelings are criticized or disrespected.  By supporting one another and by keeping comments positive and supporting, we will achieve great things here.

I really appreciate your continued support!
 
 

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2006, 04:04:47 am »
Whew, you guys. I take a couple of hours off to go out to dinner, come back for a quick check of the boards and look what I missed. Guess from now on, dinner will be a sandwich at my desk, hunh?

As moderator, I think the proper protocol is for me to post some neutral diplomatic calming message, suggesting the conversation is getting a bit heated and should move to the realm of PMs. But this feels a little different, maybe because this has been a freaky couple of days, maybe because I like you both a lot and it pains me to think that either of you would be uncomfortable or upset.

You both contribute immeasurably to this board: Jeff, as a longtime member, you have offered countless interesting comments and well-reasoned viewpoints. Ruthlessly, as a newer member, you have brought in a unique energy and fresh insights. You both can certainly hold your own in a disagreement -- I know that from personal experience  ::). I disagree with some (OK, plenty) of what both of you say, but tell you what, there is nobody I'd rather argue with.

It's not a matter of, "Can't we all just get along?" That's facile (sorry, Rodney King). But how about: Can't we all just cut each other a little slack? I'm talking about everyone here; not just you two. (I'm even reminding myself.) If someone says something you disagree with, if you take umbrage at the idea, if the language seems too forceful, if the concept makes you out-and-annoyed ... how about stepping back and taking it in a bit of stride? Internet communication has a way of distorting people's intentions. Things can get interpreted in ways we didn't expect (man, have I learned this!). How about we try if we can to give each other the benefit of the doubt? I'm all for arguing vehemently on some neutral objective point about the movie -- you know I am. But I can't imagine anyone here deliberately hurting anybody or wanting anything except good conversation.

In the end, I hope we can shrug it all off and remember that (OK, this is sacrilege and we all know I don't really REALLY believe it, but ...) it is only a movie. Albeit a movie (and story!) that we all love to an amazing -- not to say weird -- degree. Tell you what, whenever I start to wonder why I'm like this, I can't tell you what a relief it is to know all you other intelligent, articulate, seemingly rational people are like this, too.

You both are way too appreciated here for anyone to want to see either of you upset. Personally, I -- and countless others feel the same -- are very glad you're here.

Katherine
« Last Edit: July 15, 2006, 01:00:44 pm by latjoreme »

Offline silkncense

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2006, 12:18:56 pm »
* I did not read the original thread but base my thoughts on prior occurrences *

I too hope that everyone will take to heart the underlying intent here & will not rustle entire threads to their point of view (as we saw occur several months ago). 

Clarification is certainly appreciated, but reinteration of the same point while negating another's is not. 

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Offline opinionista

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2006, 01:51:38 pm »
I've been a journalist and a researcher for quite sometime now and one thing that I have learned is that when in doubt go to the source. In this case Brokeback Mountain's source is Annie Proulx herself and the short story she wrote. She's the one who came up with Ennis and Jack, their love and sad story. In other words she gave birth to them so if anyone can provide the most accurate information about the characters and their depiction in the movie is her and everything she has written about the story and the movie.

And I agree with ruthlessly that the movie does not follow the short story in every way, but Diana Ossana herself said in an interview, included in the DVD extras, that she and Larry McMurtry tried to adapt the story just as Proulx wrote it, but it wasn't long enough to be a movie, so they had to expand,  invent situations and add dialogue not originally written by Proulx.

In my opinion to say the short story, and the screenplay are"extraneous material," and to consider Annie Proulx's or Ossana's comments just speculation and interpretation, is to diminish Brokeback Mountain's true value. Proulx is the creator of all this, the one who came up with a story that moved us so much, and that brought us here in the first place. And I personally think she deserves more respect than that, as an author and as a person.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 07:17:31 pm by opinionista »
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Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2006, 02:19:43 pm »
I've been a journalist and a researcher for quite sometime now and one thing that I have learned is that when in doubt go to the source. In this case Brokeback Mountain's source is Annie Proulx herself and the short story she wrote. She's the one who came up with Ennis and Jack, their love and sad story. In other words she gave birth to them so if anyone can provide the most accurate information about the characters and their depiction in the movie is her and everything she has written about the story and the movie.

In my opinion to say the short story, and the screenplay are"extraneous material," and to consider Annie Proulx's comments just speculation and interpretation, is to diminish Brokeback Mountain's true value. Proulx is the creator of all this, the one who came up with a story that moved us so much, and that brought us here in the first place. And I personally think she deserves more respect than that, as an author and as a person.

I agree with you that Annie Proulx is the ultimate authority on Jack and Ennis as characters.  She wrote the story after witnessing an anti-gay mini-tirade at a local bar/restaurant on the part of the owner who was evidently displeased with two men who were customers in his place and he drew conclusions about their relationship in the form of nasty remarks after they had left.  Proulx's story is an extension of how two guys might cope in an atmosphere of distrust, ignorance, and fear in the rural mountain west. 

If you listen to a lot of the audio interviews and read the articles (where links still work) in the Movie Resources section, you'll find tremendous insight into the reasoning for the choice of the screenplay adoption team, how they wrestled with adopting Proulx's story for the screen, how Proulx was amazed at how well most of it turned out, and just how the process unfolds of turning a quick short story into a multi-hour film.  Proulx has been extremely supporting of the film staying largely true to her story, and she has complimented the movie screenwriters for doing so.

But Proulx has been extraordinarily consistent about what she feels should be taken away by viewers after the film.  It's the theme of this entire site and has been since the very first day - everyone is expected to finish the story in their own lives, and they do it based on their own life experiences which will certainly color their interpretations and the "moral" of the story.

Now for everyone:

BetterMost is not just a movie fan site.  There are others out there that already do a wonderful job just dwelling on the movie.  This site was created to help people figure out the film and then figure out how they are going to finish the story in their own lives and, with the support of a growing community of users here, help move beyond the film itself and open a new chapter in one's life.

The "trap" out there, for lack of a better name, is to get so caught up in the minute details of the film that one misses the greater point - the calling for one to not just see this as a film on a screen, but for many of us, a convincing call to awaken, evaluate, and evolve through change and growth.  For some that means dealing with sexuality issues, for others like me it was more about missing/lost opportunities, and for others it's about struggling through relationships.  And yes, for some, it's just a great movie that doesn't provoke any major need for change in one's own life, but just to understand what the movie was all about.

All of these are valid.

Who among us does not remember the days of wandering around dazed after this movie.  The longing to figure it out by searching out information online, talking to friends, the obsession for many which led them back to the theater again and again.  The emotional impact was overwhelming for a lot of us.

We must always be sensitive that when others share their visions and views about the film, if they do not mesh with our own views, that can literally cause a negative emotional response for some people.  That means we must be sensitive about the feelings of other users here, to make sure they realize we are not attacking them for sharing our own views.  At the same time, people sensitive to different views need to remember that other points of view are welcome here and agree or disagree, in most cases, the people sharing them are not attacking you just because they share a different perspective.

We are mostly all adults here, and we are strong enough to withstand contrary views about things.  Some of those views may open new interpretations one may not have considered before.  Just remember the one big rule that we do have here - no personal attacks on others.  We debate issues, not our users here.  Our community is only as strong as our weakest link, so being a positive and supporting individual here helps us all stay strong.
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ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2006, 05:06:05 pm »
I promised that if the original poster could show me where I was rude or disrespectful, I would eat my words.  The original poster has shown me where he took offense.  I honestly do not see the offensive nature of what I wrote since the sentence he quoted is the conclusion sentence to an entire paragraph of sentences that simply are my opinions; also, my string of opinion sentences starts with the words “To me, …”

However, I do not want to argue the minutia of a few words when the original poster was unwilling to respond to anything of substance within my detailed response to the original post.

So, because I am true to my word, I officially and publicly apologize to the original poster for offending him with my writing.  I am sorry.  I “eat my words.”  To show my sincerity, I have gone to the original post and deleted those words from it.

We may disagree, but I'm sticking to the promise that I made.  If anyone else finds any of what I have written anywhere in this forum to be offensive, I apologize to you also.  It was never my intent.






Offline louisev

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2006, 05:24:51 pm »
I wanted to thank you, Phillip, for your comment about the purposes of Bettermost.  I think, as a recent arrival, carrying my little parcel of fan fiction in hand and followed by more than a trickle of readers who felt unwelcome elsewhere as a result of wanting to get on with their lives post BBM... that what to do AFTER you go through the film experience, is ultimately the most important.  The film is in the can... it has been distributed, put on DVD, analyzed a million ways to Sunday, its makers gone on to their next projects, the Oscar snub fading into yesterday's news.

And yet there are wounds fresh in us.  Thousands of us, maybe millions.  Here in Germany BBM hit number one for nearly a month after it opened, getting better viewing than in America, and more and more people are viewing the film, looking for websites and talking about how to process their experience of the film.  Still.  Its impact is unimaginably great.  And yet, that is because we have to finish the story in our own lives.  For me, it means a rush of tribute stories that address Ennis's life after the end of Annie's story, and connecting with an audience that needs a positive outcome for him.  Each of us has our own vision, and our own "end to the story."  And I think ultimately, that makes Bettermost an invaluable resource for all who find and need it.

Thanks, Phillip, for welcoming me here.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2006, 09:08:19 pm »
I haven't read the blow by blow here about who said what - it isn't what I want to absorb.  I just want to say that there are people here who put things out in ways that annoy me sometimes, or talk about stuff I'm not interested in, or have a different sense of what might be good to post about, but that's okay.  BetterMost is a big enough place for both of us, and I can easily skip over what I don't want to read.

Please all stay, avoid each other for a while if you need to, and then one day, if your experience is like mine, the very person who rubs you the wrong way today, down the road will offer an amazing pearl or two that stokes your day.

Love,

Clarissa

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2006, 09:47:08 pm »
(Quote from latjoreme; see post above)

Quote
It's not a matter of, "Can't we all just get along?" That's facile (sorry, Rodney King). But how about: Can't we all just cut each other a little slack?

I have no wish to beat a dead horse here. Katherine's comment speaks to the heart of what I am really trying to get at. Yes, can't we just cut each other a little slack--but the slack cutting has to run both ways. On a number of occasions in my six-months-plus of Brokeback fandom, I've run accross--shall we say--strongly worded commentaries on somebody's opinion of what consitutes "acceptable" source material to be taken into consideration in understanding some aspect of Brokeback Mountain.

These commentaries have never come from people who feel, as do I, that anything in the history of the making of this film, Annie Proulx's story, early drafts of the screenplay, interviews with members of the creative team, whatever, may be considered for what light they may shed. On the contrary, these "rants" have always come from folks who insist that the only proper object of consideration is the film as we see it.

That's fine. I have no problem with someone taking that approach, and I respect anyone's right to take that approach. For that matter, I don't care if someone wants to use a ouija board to analyze Ennis's motivations. All I'm asking for is a respectful recognition that others have a right to their own ways of interpretation. I don't see this in a post that responds to someone with a rant about the other person's approach.

If "ruthlessly" felt my response, above, addressed nothing of substance because I refused to get involved in an argument over the minutiae of words, than "ruthlessly" just didn't get my point.

And I was genuinely shocked and horrified to read on "ruthlessly"'s "farewell" post that s/he was actually pursued to the point of threatening telephone calls for opinions expressed at IMDb. That makes me very sad.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ffrn

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2006, 10:56:15 pm »
Thank you Phillip for your post.  I don't know the background to the disagreements here and don't want to.  However, what I want to say is that this site is a wonderful way for those like myself who were deeply affected by BBM to talk about it with others from similar backgrounds.  As Phillip said,
Quote
This site was created to help people figure out the film and then figure out how they are going to finish the story in their own lives and, with the support of a growing community of users here, help move beyond the film itself and open a new chapter in one's life.

The "trap" out there, for lack of a better name, is to get so caught up in the minute details of the film that one misses the greater point - the calling for one to not just see this as a film on a screen, but for many of us, a convincing call to awaken, evaluate, and evolve through change and growth.

I'm mostly on Jess' feedstore thread because that's where I've found people with similar backgrounds to myself.  We know where each of us is coming from and can understand each other's perspectives on this film.  To others reading that thread, it might seem as though the film and the many layers in it are the last thing on our minds but underneath that and in PM's we are helping each other to grab hold of whatever it is we've taken from this film and apply it to our lives.  Whether that is in helping us to understand and relate better to our family and friends or actually changing the direction of our lives instead of just talking about it.  For that I'm so grateful for Phillip and this site.

Offline 2robots4u

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2006, 01:04:03 am »
Ruthlessly...I, for one, did not get the impression that you were berating anyone with your comments.  In fact, I sometimes feel some posting are attacking, and other seem condensending, and occaisonally a "lecture" is probably needed.  So,  continue your comments and do not apologize for them.  This is a site for posting your thoughts, opinions, comments and interpretations of other postings, and we all should certainly be able to accept it without thinking it is a personal attack.

Offline dly64

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Re: Can we please have an end to the ranting?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2006, 09:18:15 am »
Ruthlessly...I, for one, did not get the impression that you were berating anyone with your comments.  In fact, I sometimes feel some posting are attacking, and other seem condensending, and occaisonally a "lecture" is probably needed.  So,  continue your comments and do not apologize for them.  This is a site for posting your thoughts, opinions, comments and interpretations of other postings, and we all should certainly be able to accept it without thinking it is a personal attack.


2robots4u -

Ruthlessly has left us and many of us are very sad. Just enjoy your time here and ignore anyone who rubs you the wrong way. I love this board and I know you will, too.
Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em."