Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?

[dly64]

And I think it's a bit of a warning sign that, when Alma is being all domestic and everything, she's washing the shirt that Ennis was wearing when he lost his virginity. And she doesn't have a clue.

Kick, Mel!! I never even thought of that!! WHOA! Love it!

[JT]

Yeah, that's really interesting that they're the same two shirts from the very beginning of the movie.  I had noticed that they were Jack's shirt from TS1 and Ennis's shirt from TS2.  So, here's a question (or two or three).  Does this maybe suggest that the interaction between the boys outside Aguirre's trailer was "love at first sight"... and these shirts are meant to be visual/ prop clues about this?  Or,  maybe are we supposed to think that Jack fell in love with Ennis during TS1 (since he's wearing the magic shirt here) and Ennis fell in love during TS2 (since similarly, he's wearing his magic shirt here)?  The first option is not really compatible with options two and three.

On the topic of shirts... I've always wondered about Alma when she's hanging the laudry on the line in the really strong wind (Jack!!!) and sees Ennis driving down the road...  She's holding onto the shirt that Ennis wore during TS1.  What are we supposed to make of that?

I think for Jack, it's love at first sight, but Ennis gradually falls in love Jack up on BBM. 

[2robots4u]

JT uses OMT as in "Ennis protecting the shirts from OMT".
jpwagonner says "Jack was wearing his FNIT and Ennis SNIT".

Please don't think me obtuse, but what does OMT, FNIT, and SNIT mean?
I need to know so I can understand what these shirts are all about
Thanks..Doug

[serious crayons]

JT uses OMT as in "Ennis protecting the shirts from OMT".
jpwagonner says "Jack was wearing his FNIT and Ennis SNIT".

Please don't think me obtuse, but what does OMT, FNIT, and SNIT mean?
I need to know so I can understand what these shirts are all about
Thanks..Doug

Doug, OMT is Old Man Twist. FNIT and SNIT are First and Second Nights in Tent (also known as TS1 and TS2, for Tent Scenes 1 and 2).

Here's a link to a glossary that Goadra started not long ago to keep track of useful BBM terms.

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=3362.msg60845#msg60845

[Brown Eyes]

Hey there Friends,

I'm like Diane, I like to believe it was love at first sight (even if it was almost subconscious... or completely inarticulate for Ennis at first).  I think those shirts are meant to be such huge symbols in the film that (along with the extremely long amount of time we spend watching the boys silently interact during the opening) they must mean something even at this early stage.  I think the layering issue is really interesting.  (Katherine, I know this is a topic you're fond of...  Didn't you once suggest that the fewer the layers of clothing the more connected the boys feel to one another, or the more emotionally open a character is being at a given time?)  In this discussion, it really does seem important to note how many layers poor, clueless Alma is wearing in contrast to Jack on the mountain.  But, layering also seems important in the opening interaction between Ennis and Jack.  Jack already has one layer less of clothing on... His blue shirt is his outer layer and Ennis has his jacket on over his magic shirt.  This trend has been noted elsewhere... that Jack is usually positioned one step ahead of Ennis in many regards (literally... he's in the front during the herding, he leads Ennis to the bar, he makes the first move, etc.) and this often corresponds to his state of dress and/ or undress in comparison to Ennis.  It never occured to me, until just now, to take note of this trend during these very beginning moments of the film. 

[Penthesilea]

Oh my, what should I say? I spent the last hour (or more) to read this whole thread. All 8 pages and 114 postings.
The first pages about the dozy embrace made me cry (again). All of you found so beautiful words to describe the mood and the importance of the flashback.

I feel sorry I missed this thread until now. I know I'm late and I can't get into every side-topic I would like to, but I'll give you my thoughts about the flashback anyway.


The flashback scene itself is simply beautiful and touching. But it is the placing in the movie that makes it so wistful and incredibly sad. Usually I'm already in tears at this point, but the flashback really puts me over the edge and makes me sob heavily.

And like the dozy embrace is made sad by the encircling lake scene, it's the same vice verca: the lake scene is even more sad and tragic because of the contrast to the dozy embrace. They entail and intensify one another. So I think it's perfectly placed in the movie.

All of you already had great ideas about it, to which I can only agree: the embrace from behind, the spooning, has something protective in it.

The dozy embrace makes the two persons one, like their shadows. "His other half" They simply belong together. We already know it, but in the flashback it is accumulated.


And for the flaw/no flaw discussion: I agree with the person who said that the filmmakers contradicted Proulx' expression "would not embrace him face to face because he didn't want to know or see it was a man he was holding" (paraphrasing here). Ennis looks at Jack as direct as he can from behind.  And it was contradicted by previous scenes, too.

[Rutella]

I was thinking about the 'not wanting to embrace face to face' bit yesterday and I don't know if thats not just Jack's fear. It says "Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held"  But this 'knowledge' is Jack's opinion, and may not be really true, just as when Ennis "knew it was the tire iron" after talking to OMT that doesn't mean for definate that it was, just that in Ennis's head he is certain that it is. And with the dozy embrace, it makes sense that as Jack's dream of the sweet life with Ennis becomes less and less likely, Jack might become more and more convinced that Ennis was refusing to face him.
 
I don't know if this is likely or anything but it's what I got to thinking the other day. And I guess it's another example of the "clear space between what he knew and what he tried to believe"

[serious crayons]

Interesting idea, Rutella! That makes a lot of sense. And when I think of it that way, it fits better into the story.

[Brown Eyes]

Rutella, that really is an interesting way to explain that part of the story (which always seems unsatisfying to me).  But, it is interesting to think of all of these details about the movie/story as being skewed based on which character's perspective is being represented.  I think the dozy embrace in the movie (and in the story) is one moment that is purely understood through Jack's perspective.  I really love the idea that he's being a little paranoid about Ennis's feelings (in the story).  I wonder if the sort of odd detail in the film... of Ennis walking away and riding away without looking back is a function of Jack remembering the scene 20 years later.  Maybe Ennis really did look back or maybe there was more of an interaction as he departed... but the embrace stands out at the only thing for Jack.

[dly64]

I was thinking about the 'not wanting to embrace face to face' bit yesterday and I don't know if thats not just Jack's fear. It says "Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held"  But this 'knowledge' is Jack's opinion, and may not be really true, just as when Ennis "knew it was the tire iron" after talking to OMT that doesn't mean for definate that it was, just that in Ennis's head he is certain that it is. And with the dozy embrace, it makes sense that as Jack's dream of the sweet life with Ennis becomes less and less likely, Jack might become more and more convinced that Ennis was refusing to face him.
 
I don't know if this is likely or anything but it's what I got to thinking the other day. And I guess it's another example of the "clear space between what he knew and what he tried to believe"

As was already stated … I never thought of that angle, either. But, I like it. After all, it is Jack’s memory. IMO, the “dozy embrace” is the most beautifully filmed sequence in the entire movie. It evokes a dream-like state. It as if we, the audience, are Jack being held by Ennis. It is lovely and intimate. There are times I feel like a voyeur and that I am intruding on a very private interaction. Ironically, I don’t feel that way in TS1, TS2, or the motel scene. It is this scene and TS3 where I experience this feeling the most. Maybe it’s because the “dozy embrace” and TS3 reflect a vulnerability that is not present anywhere else.