Author Topic: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?  (Read 66478 times)

Offline JT

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #120 on: August 08, 2006, 12:27:01 pm »
If I have choose one scene as a favorite, I think it would be that "dozy embrace" scene.  IMO I think it was the sweetest and truest moment in the entire movie.  And yes, showing it at that moment is particularly heart-breaking.

Offline JT

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #121 on: August 08, 2006, 12:37:38 pm »
Oh my, what should I say? I spent the last hour (or more) to read this whole thread. All 8 pages and 114 postings.
The first pages about the dozy embrace made me cry (again). All of you found so beautiful words to describe the mood and the importance of the flashback.

I feel sorry I missed this thread until now. I know I'm late and I can't get into every side-topic I would like to, but I'll give you my thoughts about the flashback anyway.


The flashback scene itself is simply beautiful and touching. But it is the placing in the movie that makes it so wistful and incredibly sad. Usually I'm already in tears at this point, but the flashback really puts me over the edge and makes me sob heavily.

And like the dozy embrace is made sad by the encircling lake scene, it's the same vice verca: the lake scene is even more sad and tragic because of the contrast to the dozy embrace. They entail and intensify one another. So I think it's perfectly placed in the movie.

All of you already had great ideas about it, to which I can only agree: the embrace from behind, the spooning, has something protective in it.

The dozy embrace makes the two persons one, like their shadows. "His other half" They simply belong together. We already know it, but in the flashback it is accumulated.


And for the flaw/no flaw discussion: I agree with the person who said that the filmmakers contradicted Proulx' expression "would not embrace him face to face because he didn't want to know or see it was a man he was holding" (paraphrasing here). Ennis looks at Jack as direct as he can from behind.  And it was contradicted by previous scenes, too.



Isn't it wonderful to read what others are thinking regarding that simple scene?  It was very emotional for me as well when I read what others have written.  I agree 100% that the "dozy embrace" was inserted perfectly into that spot.  A moment of true happiness wedged between a corroding sea of sadness.

Offline Andrew

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #122 on: August 08, 2006, 10:38:03 pm »
This topic and this forum - every now and then I step back and realize how lucky I am I found them, and all of you!
 
How quirky and lonely I might feel without knowing all these kindred spirits were here!  And the differences we express only enhance this feeling, since it shows none of us are losing any of our precious individuality in this splendid group swim.  There's not a person who has contributed here who has not said at least one thing that resonates, or brings me back into the world of my first responses to these characters.  I want to acknowledge every one of you who has given me that thrill but what would be the point?

I've been thinking about comments close to the head of this topic, from those who have a problem with the line in the story about Ennis being unwilling to face Jack.  Katherine said, 'I am one of those who considers it flawed in the story -- and, I guess, the screenplay -- because of that "Ennis does not embrace him face to face because he does not want to see or feel that it is Jack he holds" line.'  And Amanda agreed.

An important word in Proulx's sentence for me has always been the adverb:  "Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face..."  This is Jack looking back on the whole history of their times together: "Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory..."  In all their years this is the single moment of artless, charmed happiness...yet this was at a very early stage of their love before they had any inkling of what it would become over the years.  Their love on Brokeback had all the perfection of the newborn and all the newborn's lacks, and Jack is relishing the one though aware of the other, from the vantage of years.  Denial was still possible on Brokeback - you had only not to look at what you were doing!  We are not told in the story how long after their first pairing this embrace was, but IF they did embrace face to face that first summer at a time when it was light enough to see each other's faces, the dozy embrace was a waystation to that daylit embrace.  What a dimension Proulx adds to the story with her deliberate mystery!  She does not say whether they kissed on Brokeback, or kissed when it was light.  What we are allowed to see is always set off against what we are not.

At the reunion kiss, in broad daylight, it is obvious that Ennis' then has vanished forever.  'Easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers...'  Even this line will imply to some of us that Ennis and Jack are thrown back into what was so familiar to them from Brokeback, to others that they find themselves compelled to do what they had never done before.

I am one of those who feels the reunion kiss happened the way it did partly because both Jack and Ennis had become unguarded about public displays of love because of their family life in the years between.  Both had some affection for their wives, and Ennis had a powerful affection for his daughters, and they would have had no reason to be inhibited about the occasional public kiss.  Ennis had progressed in the knowledge of how sexual feeling and family affection can coexist towards a partner.  When Ennis and Jack began to hug each other publicly they were doing something rare but socially acceptable between friends who had not seen each other for years.  Their experiences with their wives and children made the way from the hug to the public kiss short and easy...and ravenous hunger did the rest.

Getting back to the then - one of the reasons we have not focused on it before is that the word is not carried over to the screenplay instructional comment.  The screenplay says, 'even though he knows that Ennis does not embrace him face to face because he does not want to see or feel that it is Jack he holds'.  This makes the realization concurrent with the embrace itself, whereas in the story the realization comes years later.  You could say that the film softens Annie's antisentimental attitude, because it shows the young Jack in a state of pure bliss without any 'realization', but you could also say that the film visually restores (with Jack's contrasted faces) some of the contrast of past and present which were in the story but lost in the screenplay comment.


Offline serious crayons

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #123 on: August 08, 2006, 10:55:16 pm »
An important word in Proulx's sentence for me has always been the adverb:  "Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face..." 

... Getting back to the then - one of the reasons we have not focused on it before is that the word is not carried over to the screenplay instructional comment.  The screenplay says, 'even though he knows that Ennis does not embrace him face to face because he does not want to see or feel that it is Jack he holds'. 

Nice post, Andrew. You know, I never thought hard enough about that "then." I still don't like the line much, but that does help mitigate its flaws a little. It implies, albeit too subtly for my taste, that he got over that hangup at some later point.


Offline dly64

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #124 on: August 08, 2006, 11:24:39 pm »
An important word in Proulx's sentence for me has always been the adverb:  "Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face..."  This is Jack looking back on the whole history of their times together: "Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory..."  In all their years this is the single moment of artless, charmed happiness...yet this was at a very early stage of their love before they had any inkling of what it would become over the years.  Their love on Brokeback had all the perfection of the newborn and all the newborn's lacks, and Jack is relishing the one though aware of the other, from the vantage of years.  Denial was still possible on Brokeback - you had only not to look at what you were doing!  We are not told in the story how long after their first pairing this embrace was, but IF they did embrace face to face that first summer at a time when it was light enough to see each other's faces, the dozy embrace was a waystation to that daylit embrace.  What a dimension Proulx adds to the story with her deliberate mystery!  She does not say whether they kissed on Brokeback, or kissed when it was light.  What we are allowed to see is always set off against what we are not.

Andrew – what a great and thoughtful post! You, along with Rutella, have given me a few different angles to consider. I always saw the line about Ennis’ inability to embrace Jack face to face to be taken theoretically versus literally. In Ennis’ mind, the idea that he was holding a man was incompatible with the teachings of his father and what he was taught to believe. However, Rutella brings up the point that we see this scene in Jack’s POV. In other words, it is Jack’s recollection of that moment that we are privy to. And Jack perceives Ennis’ embrace from behind as a product of Ennis’ homophobia. But I like what you say also. Certainly I am not as confident in my interpretation as I had been previously. Thanks for the insight!
Diane

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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #125 on: August 08, 2006, 11:30:41 pm »
Andrew, did U used to be littledarlin? Just wonderin.

O my God. I was travelling home tonite, and I heard the song which I fanticize to be the lullaby that Heath hums in the Dozy Embrace!! Yes, I was driving home with the full Harvest moon rising off my left shoulder, listening to NPR, and I heard a haunting song, performed by Nora Guthrie and the Klezmatics, of her father, Woodie Guthrie's favorite lullaby to his childen. No one knows what song Ennis was humming then (who knows, it could have been "Waltzing Matillda") but this is just my idea. Listen to it, and you'll be captivated:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5627147
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Offline Andrew

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #126 on: August 09, 2006, 09:47:56 am »
No, FR, it sounds like that Andrew, littledarlin (from Chicago) is just busy in his personal life - that's what he said in his last post.  I'm sure he'll use the same moniker when he gets back, which I hope will be soon.  I'm Andrew from Boston.
I just listened to that whole broadcast.  The lullaby comes at the end, and it's well worth waiting for.  The second song, the one just before it, is great too.  The Klezmatics did really come up with tunes which are at one with the words.  I could easily imagine Ennis' mother humming the refrain of that lullaby.

Offline dly64

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #127 on: August 09, 2006, 10:23:38 am »
O my God. I was travelling home tonite, and I heard the song which I fanticize to be the lullaby that Heath hums in the Dozy Embrace!! Yes, I was driving home with the full Harvest moon rising off my left shoulder, listening to NPR, and I heard a haunting song, performed by Nora Guthrie and the Klezmatics, of her father, Woodie Guthrie's favorite lullaby to his childen. No one knows what song Ennis was humming then (who knows, it could have been "Waltzing Matillda") but this is just my idea. Listen to it, and you'll be captivated:


Beautiful! I listened to it several times and absolutely loved it! How apropos this lullaby would have been during the “dozy embrace.”  It only solidifies that dream-like state that is evoked at that moment. I don’t think I’ll ever watch that scene again without thinking about that song. Too bad we don’t know for sure what Ennis is humming … or maybe it’s a good thing? Then we can imagine what he is humming … this lullaby being one. Thanks for sharing this!
Diane

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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #128 on: August 09, 2006, 10:30:36 am »
Thank you for the link to this story, I am listening to the story as I write.

I appreciated the placement of the dozy embrace in the story and film as you see Ennis embracing him from behind in one, and not long after that he in embracing the shirts, face to face, but they are now empty, too late late, Ennis.

"Gonna get through this world" is now playing. I think I will need to get this cd.

In her essay in the story the screenplay book, Proulx says when she was writing the Dozy Embrace sceen, she listened to Pat Methany and Charlie Hadden's "Spiritual" from their 1996 cd "Beyond the Missouri Sky" a haunting and sad piece of music. I have to play it from time to time to block out the world.
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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?
« Reply #129 on: August 09, 2006, 10:46:51 am »
"Heddy Down" yes, I could hear those words comming from his lips, that is a good call Front Ranger!
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."