HEATH WILL PLAY THE JOKER IN BATMAN BEGINS SEQUEL!

[opinionista]

From IMDB:

Ledger To Join 'Batman' Cast As Joker?

Brokeback Mountain star Heath Ledger may have scored the coveted role of The Joker in the Batman Begins sequel, according to press reports in Australia. The actor was reportedly offered the plum part last week and will star in the next installment of the film set to be released in 2008. Oscar-winner Robin Williams was reportedly desperate to land the role and The Da Vinci Code star Paul Bettany was also rumored to be in talks for the part. According to film website Moviehole.net, filmmakers wanted to cast an actor in the part of Batman's adversary who was roughly the same age as 32-year-old star Christian Bale. Ledger is also working with Bale on I'm Not There, a film in which seven actors embody different aspects of musician Bob Dylan's life and work.

http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2006-07-27/#2

[henrypie]

He's got the mouth!

[Meryl]

You're so right, Sarah!   

I'd rather see Heath in a serious role, but he's all about diversity, so I'm not surprised he is taking them up on the Joker.  He's one of the few younger actors around these days who has that kind of range. 

[chefjudy]

  it's official!  Heath will play the Joker in the next Batman movie - here is the link http://news.aol.com/entertainment/movies/articles/_a/heath-ledger-set-as-joker-in-batman/20060801064509990001

should make for an interesting movie, don't you think??

[Daniel]

Isn't that funny. Last year they were saying that Jake Gyllenhaal would be Two-Face.

[littleguitar]

Isn't that funny. Last year they were saying that Jake Gyllenhaal would be Two-Face.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read this thread Daniel, only I couldn't remember who the character he was supposed to play was...

I loved the first Batman Begins, so hopefully this will be a good movie for Heath!

[RouxB]

Heath will be fab in this role. I am admiring, if somewhat perplexed, at his choices in roles. As serious as he is, he does not shy away from anything. As the article states, he is pretty fearless.

 

[Ellemeno]

Plot summary courtesy of IMDb:

Plot Summary for
Untitled Batman Begins Sequel (2008)

Batman, Lt.Jim Gordon and D.A. Harvey Dent team up in an effort to stop the villainous Joker, a theatrical serial killer who lives for the sole purpose of causing harm to the citizens of Gotham, as well as The Dark knight. At the same time, Batman begins to uncover more of the corruption that is plaguing Gotham City, with the arrival of crime boss Salvatore Maroni.

Summary written by Anonymous

Crime Boss Salvatore Maroni and Roman Sionis(Black Mask) are in arms deal with one of Gotham's richest men, Oswald Cobblepot (The Penguin).The Penguin works with William Earle, a man who wants revenge on Bruce Wayne for firing him.Batman with help of Lt. James Gordon and New DA Harvey Dent battle for justice but only makes matters worth with arrival of The Clown Prince of Crime, The Joker.The Joker is a brutal serial killer who murders for fun.So Batman, Jim Gordon & Harvey Dent must save Gotham from the Joker's reign of terror and death.

[Meryl]

Heath playing a guy who murders for fun?     

*Hugs Ennis really hard*

[littleguitar]

I hoping Heath's Joker will be a little more human than Jack Nicholson's... I don't like it when villains are entirely bad, when it is just evil vs. good and that is that.  I like Jack Nicholson's joker, but I imagine him  to be a little more tortured and dark, like Batman himself... I think Heath could really bring that aspect to it!

[Ellemeno]

Heath playing a guy who murders for fun?     

*Hugs Ennis really hard*

I know, I'm kinda dreadin' it.  Heath becoming the Joker is big talk over at IMDb on both the movie's message board and Heath's.  Be prepared for a lot of stupid "gay cowboy" talk if you wade in to look at it though.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I doubt I'll see it--I never see "blockbusters"--but I have to admit I'm impressed. When it comes to acting, that young man knows no fear.

[Mikaela]

Heath playing a guy who murders for fun?     

I'm getting Kevin vibes if you know what I mean. And those aren't happy vibes- I remain sadly disappointed with any and all actors who take on sadistic and evil roles that mainly have a "cool entertainment" value. 

Of course I know too little of this role yet to say any such thing......... but I don't like what I hear so far.



*Hugs Ennis really hard along with you*

[Phillip Dampier]

The only question I have is WHY do we need another remake of Batman.  It's not like the Jack Nicholson version was in black and white.  And haven't we learned from the sequelmania that going back to the well one more time does not always make for movie gold.

I have already grown weary of the comic book adaptation movies.  It's always a phase with Hollywood.  We had the return of disaster movies, then we had the weather/environment adventure dramas, then the comic books...  boring.

I have seen one film since BBM - An Inconvenient Truth... hmm... you could interchange those:

An Inconvenient Truth: Brokeback Mountain
Brokeback Mountain: An Inconvenient Truth

[Daniel]

The other newer Batman movies (at least a few of them) were very, how should I say this, unrealistic, because they were made by Tim Burton. I think there are people who just want to make the films a little better. And I was very impressed with "Batman Begins" after resisting seeing it in the theater as long as I did: realistic, surprisingly philosophical, excellent acting, and believable villains, even if one of them didn't have much of a background to him. So I for one am grateful for that movie and any sequels that want to come along that can help carry that forward.

[opinionista]

The only question I have is WHY do we need another remake of Batman.  It's not like the Jack Nicholson version was in black and white.  And haven't we learned from the sequelmania that going back to the well one more time does not always make for movie gold.

You have a point Phillip. I wonder the very same thing. Hollywood people keep complaining about the lack of good screenplays to choose from, which is so strange with so many aspiring writers struggling to make it in Tinseltown. However,  European filmmakers are coming up with fresh ideas and good movies. If Hollywood people were smart, and really knew their audience they'd be more eager to consider new ideas, and we wouldn't have to endure to have the same movies being re made over and over again.

If you are looking for new movies to watch, I strongly recommend Pedro Almodovar's latest flick Volver. I think it opens in the fall in the US. Great movie, and great performances.

[Ellemeno]

The only question I have is WHY do we need another remake of Batman. 

Well, having become an expert on the matter last night as I was surfing around reading about this - Apparently Batman Begins is highly regarded, and the director of it, Chris Nolan, who also made Memento, is highly regarded.  There's my expert info on the matter. 

[silkncense]

I agree w/ Daniel.  I did not care for the Batman films prior to Batman Begins (esp the villians) - am hoping that since Christian Bale & the same director are returning that this will be far better (I at least hope so - and that Heath will be wonderful & not a caricature).

[littleguitar]

I agree w/ Daniel.  I did not care for the Batman films prior to Batman Begins (esp the villians) - am hoping that since Christian Bale & the same director are returning that this will be far better (I at least hope so - and that Heath will be wonderful & not a caricature).

This is what I'm hoping for when I say that I hope he'll be more human... that he won't be a caricature, which, IMO, Jack Nicholson's Joker was.  I enjoyed Batman Begins, I think they did a very good job of taking it away from the silliness that is typical of a comic book movie, especailly a Batman movie, and moving into something a little more adult and dramatic in it's themes.  I will admit though, i have a soft spot in my heart for Batman and I had been waiting for them to make a good Batman movie for a while, since they insist on making one after another.  I think that if Nolan keeps to the way he did Batman Begins, the sequel could be very good and worth making, and I think Heath will pull it off.  I don't think it will just be a sadistic role for entertainment value like Nicholson's was...

[serious crayons]

Well, having become an expert on the matter last night as I was surfing around reading about this - Apparently Batman Begins is highly regarded, and the director of it, Chris Nolan, who also made Memento, is highly regarded.  There's my expert info on the matter. 

My expert info extends to having seen both movies. Memento is one of my all-time favorites. I liked Batman Begins pretty well (my sons didn't, but that's not necessarily a bad sign).

I have a soft spot for Batman, too. Whereas the old movies were sometimes interestingly dark but ultimately cartoonish, I think the idea behind the new series is to show Batman as sort of an ordinary person with an unusual lifestyle. If that's the way they present the Joker, too, it could be good.

I'll have to admit the concept makes me nervous, though. I keep picturing Heath with those green Jack Nicholson lips and wild caricaturish laugh.

[Mikaela]

I went over to Imdb and read part of the discussions on Heath as the Joker. Wow, was that ever a fandom reality check! 

Relatively many posters seem *very* worried (or even convinced) that Heath won't manage to do the part justice. And since they are dedicated batman fans, the fact that Heath may not be able to play the "Clown Prince of Crime" causes them very much concern. Words used include "unworthy" and the like.

Several are saying that sure, he played a gay cowboy well enough, but that doesn't mean he can manage to pull off the (apparently much more demanding and important) "psychotic serial killing genius" role to their satisfaction. And it's very clear that it's the latter makes or breaks Heath's acting in their view. The Joker is serious business. Ennis was just some "gay" role that Heath took on to win awards, - and which didn't in any way, shape or form require the acting chops that the Joker requires.

This was an useful reminder of how every fandom ultimately is and works alike.... and that dedicated fans are *serious* about their obsession, no matter what that might be.

Not for me to say that one fandom is more or less rewarding than the other, of course. But still.... Heath "unworthy" to play a clownishly made-up killer in a comic film?        Aaaargh. I personally think the role is beneath him and not the other way around.   (And yes, I know many here probably won't agree, and that's fine. But I can't help being disappointed about this role choice.)

[serious crayons]

Ennis was just some "gay" role that Heath took on to win awards, - and which didn't in any way, shape or form require the acting chops that the Joker requires.

That's hilarious! We're all worried that the Joker's not good enough for Heath, and they're all worried that Heath's not good enough for the Joker.

Let the battle of the fans begin!

[Meryl]

Beauty, or in this case worthiness, is certainly in the eye of the beholder, alright.  I'm awfully glad I'm beholding Heath from the mountaintop at BetterMost instead of from the Bat Cave. 

[opinionista]

Not for me to say that one fandom is more or less rewarding than the other, of course. But still.... Heath "unworthy" to play a clownishly made-up killer in a comic film?        Aaaargh. I personally think the role is beneath him and not the other way around.   (And yes, I know many here probably won't agree, and that's fine. But I can't help being disappointed about this role choice.)

Well, I think he is more interested in the paycheck. Superhero movies are high budget movies, and pay very good. This is not to say that Heath is materialistic or whatever, but he has a daughter now, two homes, so I guess he needs money to keep up with the life he lives. I know Michelle helps, but still. Nothing wrong with it IMO. Also, I don't think the Joker is a bad role. The topic of the movie may not be as interesting or intense as Brokeback Mountain's, but the Joker is a challenging role, especially now that's been immortalized by Jack Nicholson. Heath has a big challenge ahead. He has to convice the audience he can play the Joker as good as Nicholson, or better.

On the other hand, I read somewhere that hollywood actors do fight for roles in Superhero movies because of the paycheck and because these movies are practically shown everywhere, and are unlikely to be censored. That's attractive for them because they depend a lot on their image and fame to be considered for roles, and get big paychecks. Kirsten Dunst fought hard for the Mary Jane role in Spiderman, and so did Jake with that same movie, and also Superman. (Jake auditioned for Brandon Routh's role). But he didn't get it. I read somewhere that Jake is looking for a role in a superhero movie.

[serious crayons]

Interesting that you should mention that, Natali. I read a couple of places that Heath turned down the role of Spider-Man in favor of Brokeback Mountain, for which I have always respected him. That's one reason I found this news slightly disappointing.

I sometimes enjoy watching comic-book movies myself, but I hate what big cartoonish blockbusters have done to cinema in general. I wish we would get back to an art dominated by character-driven films like Brokeback and all the others that were up for Oscars this year (yes, even Crash).

[Mikaela]

....so did Jake with that same movie [Spiderman], and also Superman. (Jake auditioned for Brandon Routh's role).

I'm probably the only one who's immediate reaction to learning of Jake not getting those roles was: Thank God!

Much as I like seeing Jake in tight revealing outfits, I don't want him in any superhero film because I'm absolutely no fan of the genre, and have consistently failed to be impressed with the acting the stars do while wearing the weird costumes and drowning in special effects and predictable story-lines.

hollywood actors do fight for roles in Superhero movies because of the paycheck and because these movies are practically shown everywhere, and are unlikely to be censored. That's attractive for them because they depend a lot on their image and fame to be considered for roles, and get big paychecks.

This makes a lot of sense.

I have a strong knee-jerk aversion to sadism and violence portrayed for entertainment purposes, so I think it's a pity that they do vie for these roles - a pity that such roles pay so well and are so image-enhancing - and a pity that Heath got one.  


ETA:

Heath turned down the role of Spider-Man in favor of Brokeback Mountain

That earns this post another Thank God from me! (I hadn't heard that.)

[Flashframe777]

Heath will be great in this role, of course.  But let's not forget that Heath could very well be the Marlon Brando of our time.  Godspeed Heath!

[Ellemeno]

Heath will be great in this role, of course.  But let's not forget that Heath could very well be the Marlon Brando of our time.  Godspeed Heath!

'Cept he's way better at accents than Brando was.

[Flashframe777]

Yes...much better at accents.  Oh my Clarrissa, I need a "live in the flesh" Heath fix.  What to do, what to do?

[littleguitar]

I'm probably the only one who's immediate reaction to learning of Jake not getting those roles was: Thank God!

Not the only one... I thought the exact same thing.  Also, when Jake was linked to the role of two-face earlier I had the same reaction.  I just do not see him in a comic book movie and, as much as I love him and think he is an amazingly talented actor, I just don't think it would be a good fit.  he could pull it off, but... and this is coming from someone who enjoys comic book films (well, to a certain extent... I like Batman and Spiderman but can't stand the other ones)

I think it's the same with Heath, I think he can pull it off and I'm hoping that he'll inject a bit of a human quality into the role now that he has it, and I'm happy that it is a Batman movie of all comic book movies it could be... but I'm not exactly excited to see him take this role.  I don't have anything against comic book films, it's just a strange fit.

[opinionista]

Interesting that you should mention that, Natali. I read a couple of places that Heath turned down the role of Spider-Man in favor of Brokeback Mountain, for which I have always respected him. That's one reason I found this news slightly disappointing.

I sometimes enjoy watching comic-book movies myself, but I hate what big cartoonish blockbusters have done to cinema in general. I wish we would get back to an art dominated by character-driven films like Brokeback and all the others that were up for Oscars this year (yes, even Crash).

Where did you read that Katherine? I read he turned the Spiderman role down in 2000 because he had three previous commitments. He was offered to do Brokeback in 2004.

“You want to know the truth? The short story, [“Brokeback Mountain”) was published in 1997. It was optioned to become a movie in 1998. My first American movie was ’10 Things I Hate About You’ in 1999. There were so many actors during the past seven years who have been attached to ‘Brokeback Mountain,’ yet who have been convinced by their managers, agents, publicists, or all three combined, not to do it, because it would ruin their career. I was approached to make the movie, maybe because I was the last on the list, in early 2004 and didn’t think twice about it. The same can be said about Jake (Gyllenhaal). Neither of us needed to have ‘permission’ from our agents to make this movie. It was our decision alone. To be honest, nobody advised me to not do the movie. Fear is manufactured by the studios putting up money. Focus (the studio releasing “Brokeback Mountain) has had a track record with quality hard-to-market films, including ‘Far From Heaven,’ which also just happened to be a film with gay undertones."
http://www.wildaboutmovies.com/interviews/HeathLedgerInterviewBrokebackMountain.php

[serious crayons]

Where did you read that Katherine? I read he turned the Spiderman role down in 2000 because he had three previous commitments. He was offered to do Brokeback in 2004.

You're right, Natali. It wouldn't make sense that he would make the two decisions simultaneously, and I shouldn't have shorthanded it that way. What I was thinking was, he turned down a big opportunity -- playing a superhero in a big-budget summer blockbuster -- but then (several years later) took a risky opportunity -- playing a gay man in a low-budget art-house romance that, supposedly, was expected to be low-profile.

I thought it showed integrity to have made both those decisions. I read about it a couple of places, I think, but here's an excerpt from Rolling Stone, which describes him turning down Spider-Man not for scheduling reasons but on artistic grounds:

After the triple dreamboat whammy of 10 Things I Hate About You, The Patriot (as a publicist's fantasy: Mel Gibson's son) and A Knight's Tale, he found himself at the big studio table. Executives mapped out a career with the shape of an Entourage season: billboards and paydays. They wanted this Aussie kid from Perth ("It's the most isolated city in the world") to play Spider-Man. Ledger walked out. "I was like, 'Ah, fucking hell. I'm part of a machine.' I started to feel like a bottle of Coke. And there was a whole marketing scheme on to turn me into a very popular bottle. And Coke tastes like shit. But there's posters everywhere so people will buy it. So I felt like I tasted like shit, and I was being bought for no reason."

Two things:

-- Playing Mel Gibson's son is probably no longer a publicist's fantasy

-- Here's an example of why I don't trust celebrity journalism. From your excerpt:

Neither of us needed to have ‘permission’ from our agents to make this movie. It was our decision alone.

From Rolling Stone:

A dare: Who'd be man enough to play gay? My agent told me, 'You're perfect for this one,'" Heath Ledger says.

I guess the two quotes aren't quite mutually exclusive, but ...

[opinionista]

You're right, Natali. It wouldn't make sense that he would make the two decisions simultaneously, and I shouldn't have shorthanded it that way. What I was thinking was, he turned down a big opportunity -- playing a superhero in a big-budget summer blockbuster -- but then (several years later) took a risky opportunity -- playing a gay man in a low-budget art-house romance that, supposedly, was expected to be low-profile.

I thought it showed integrity to have made both those decisions. I read about it a couple of places, I think, but here's an excerpt from Rolling Stone, which describes him turning down Spider-Man not for scheduling reasons but on artistic grounds:

After the triple dreamboat whammy of 10 Things I Hate About You, The Patriot (as a publicist's fantasy: Mel Gibson's son) and A Knight's Tale, he found himself at the big studio table. Executives mapped out a career with the shape of an Entourage season: billboards and paydays. They wanted this Aussie kid from Perth ("It's the most isolated city in the world") to play Spider-Man. Ledger walked out. "I was like, 'Ah, fucking hell. I'm part of a machine.' I started to feel like a bottle of Coke. And there was a whole marketing scheme on to turn me into a very popular bottle. And Coke tastes like shit. But there's posters everywhere so people will buy it. So I felt like I tasted like shit, and I was being bought for no reason."

Two things:

-- Playing Mel Gibson's son is probably no longer a publicist's fantasy

-- Here's an example of why I don't trust celebrity journalism. From your excerpt:

From Rolling Stone:

A dare: Who'd be man enough to play gay? My agent told me, 'You're perfect for this one,'" Heath Ledger says.

I guess the two quotes aren't quite mutually exclusive, but ...

Yeah, celebrity journalism is really unrealiable. They really give journalist a bad name, don't they? Anyway, what I wrote about actors wanting Superhero roles came from an article I read a long time ago, when Batman and Robin was released in 1995. Don't remember where I read it. I guess not everyone thinks the same, but also Heath's situation has changed now. Then he was a single man, with no responsbiliities and lots of time to take on different roles, and explore with movies. Now he has a daughter to think about, and two homes.

Also, The Joker is a challenging role, IMO, more than playing Spiderman I guess.  I don't see Tobey Maguire needing to make much effort to be convincing. And Kirsten Dunst's performance is about the worst I've seen in my life, considering how good she did in Interview with a Vampire. She's really bad, and annoying. However, they've been paid a lot of money.

Like I said, I think Heath has a challenge ahead with this role because a lot of people are doubting his talent and acting capabilities, because of Jack Nicholson's oustanding and impressive performance in Batman. Heath is a great actor, but Nicholson is a legend.

[Ellemeno]

...Heath's situation has changed now. Then he was a single man, with no responsbiliities and lots of time to take on different roles, and explore with movies. Now he has a daughter to think about, and two homes.

"They were no longer young men, with all of it before them..."

[serious crayons]

"They were no longer young men, with all of it before them..."

True. Now Heath is 27. 

[nakymaton]

True. Now Heath is 27. 

  Heh. Still too young for a Best Actor Oscar, but too old to turn down parts like the Joker. 

(It seems as though all A-list actors have to do their time in superhero movies, or bad disaster movies, or something like that. It's as if having A-list actors gives the popcorn flicks some kind of credibility. "Ooooh, The Core couldn't be that bad... it has Hilary Swank in it. Didn't she win an Oscar or something?")

I'll watch it. I didn't see Batman Begins (don't go to the movies that much these days), but I'll see a superhero movie to watch Heath. (And I don't think the Batman movies are Sin City. Batman Begins was rated PG-13, so I don't think you have to worry about Heath doing an Elijah Wood and being so disturbing that he's unwatchable, Mikaela and Meryl.)

[Meryl]

'll watch it. I didn't see Batman Begins (don't go to the movies that much these days), but I'll see a superhero movie to watch Heath. (And I don't think the Batman movies are Sin City. Batman Begins was rated PG-13, so I don't think you have to worry about Heath doing an Elijah Wood and being so disturbing that he's unwatchable, Mikaela and Meryl.)

I'm not too worried.  It's distasteful to watch any character with such unredeeming qualities as the Joker, but Heath will make him interesting.  Batman Begins at least had a reasonably believable plot and made an attempt at character development.  Elijah was good in Sin City, but when it turns up on cable, I don't have much of an urge to re-watch it.  It's stylized barbarity with characters that don't have much going for them.  Once was enough. 

[serious crayons]

It's as if having A-list actors gives the popcorn flicks some kind of credibility.

And maybe for the A-listers, it gives the chance to show they have range. Hey, they're not JUST serious talented actors able to turn out poignant nuanced Oscar-worthy performances in challenging roles! They can also play unchallenging roles in movies dominated by costumes and CGI special effects!

Still, I have a lot of faith in Heath, and I have a lot of faith in Christopher Nolan. And for that matter, I'll also gladly see any movie with Christian Bale in it (well, except for the creepy ones where he plays a serial killer or an undernourished factory worker). So I'm hoping for the best.

Speaking of Christopher Nolan, if anybody hasn't seen Memento, his debut flick, I highly highly recommend it. It's absolutely nothing like Brokeback, but it's easly in my top 10 (a list in which, admittedly, there's a LOT of space between No. 1 and No. 2).

[nakymaton]

And maybe for the A-listers, it gives the chance to show they have range. Hey, they're not JUST serious talented actors able to turn out poignant nuanced Oscar-worthy performances in challenging roles! They can also play unchallenging roles in movies dominated by costumes and CGI special effects!

And can make a lot of money to support their urges to act in low-budget Oscar bait. It's the cheesy blockbusters that provide the big paychecks.

(As a Lord of the Rings fan, though, I take issue with the assertion that CGI and costumes are necessarily inconsistent with good movie-making! I'm still boycotting all Clint Eastwood movies because of his slams against Return of the King in the 2003 Oscar race. But then I've got a popcorn-movie heart, I'm afraid.)

(Meryl... I never even saw Sin City. Hubby rented it without me, and told me that it was the sort of thing that I would hate, Frodo or no Frodo. And he knows me well enough to tell exactly what violence will freak me out.)

(And Memento was good, if kinda freaky.)

[serious crayons]

And can make a lot of money to support their urges to act in low-budget Oscar bait. It's the cheesy blockbusters that provide the big paychecks.

You're right. You couldn't expect them to scrape by on those measly -- what? low-seven-figure? high-six-figure? -- arty-film paychecks.

(As a Lord of the Rings fan, though, I take issue with the assertion that CGI and costumes are necessarily inconsistent with good movie-making! ... But then I've got a popcorn-movie heart, I'm afraid.)

Me too, to be honest. I was just being smart-alecky. I liked the LOR movies (probably not as much as you, but I did like them). And actually, I see most of the big popcornish blockbusters. They're not my favorite type of movie, but they're almost always entertaining and spectacular and they keep my kids quiet for a couple of hours (though I also used to go see them pre-kids, too).

[Mikaela]

I don't think you have to worry about Heath doing an Elijah Wood and being so disturbing that he's unwatchable, Mikaela and Meryl

No, I don't worry about that. I've come to realize that I'm not by far as worried about the possible level of "evilness" in Heath's role as I'm worried that he'll make a fool of himself and look plain silly. 

I caught part of that Batman film where Jack Nicholson played the Joker on some TV channel once, and that character wasn't scary - he seemed like an embarrassing charicature to me. (But I seldom watch that kind of movie, I don't find them especially entertaining or interesting; - it's a cultural trait that such films are by and large only watched by the teen segment here.) Anyway, bearing the Nicholson Joker in mind, I don't look forward to Heath looking and behaving like that. I know they will throw some sort of new spin on this role version, including the makeup and the crazed behaviour, but the main characteristics will remain, won't they? How scary can something like that *be*?

[serious crayons]

Anyway, bearing the Nicholson Joker in mind, I don't look forward to Heath looking and behaving like that. I know they will throw some sort of new spin on this role version, including the makeup and the crazed behaviour, but the main characteristics will remain, won't they? How scary can something like that *be*?

Here's what I'm hoping. The objective of the first Batman Begins seems to have been to portray Batman as a regular person who endured some disturbing experiences (including his parents' murder) and so decided to become a mysterious crime-fighter (yeah, yeah, I know, doesn't everybody do that after a disturbing experience?). He's a regular mortal who doesn't have superpowers, and it shows him methodically inventing the various gadgets he uses in his work. It's sort of an attempt to demystify Batman and make him into an interesting three-dimensional character rather than a comic-book caricature.

I would say they were somewhat successful in pulling it off. The villain, BTW, was Cillian Murphy, and he was also depicted as a scary and deranged but regular person who as I recall only dressed up in costume to freak people out, after giving them mind-altering drugs.

So I'm hoping they will treat the Joker the same way. I have no idea how you could be a regular person and also be The Joker. But maybe they'll find a way. That's about the best we can hope for, I think.

To be honest, the whole thing does make me nervous. I have no problem with the Batman concept in general. And though I like Christian Bale, I don't mind ogling him -- I mean, seeing him -- as Batman. In fact, I thought he was pretty good. But I don't feel very personally attached to Christian Bale.

Nicholson as The Joker worked because we're used to seeing Nicholson in hammy roles, playing some exaggerated, tongue-in-cheek figure who is basically a caricature of himself. He can be a serious, subtle, effective actor too, but that's not central to his public persona. His image is of a bemused, shades-wearing, hipsterish, laid-back, defiantly aging bad-boy megastar, and he frequently exploits that image in his roles. I can see someone like, say, Owen Wilson becoming that type as he gets older.

But Heath hasn't established that kind of ironic and self-mocking persona -- in fact, I doubt he ever will; he seems too shy and serious in real life. Besides, I have all kinds of extra sensitivity when it comes to Heath. For Pete's sake, I haven't been able to bring myself to see Casanova yet! 

[Mikaela]

The objective of the first Batman Begins seems to have been to portray Batman as a regular person who endured some disturbing experiences ...

Oh no! I know where this discussion will eventually be leading.... to  me deciding I have to see this one to figure out if the next one, with Heath's Joker and all, may possibly be worthwhile! 

But seriously, you manage to make the Batman begins film sound quite interesting..... Well done!

For Pete's sake, I haven't been able to bring myself to see Casanova yet!

Now this makes me curious. Why can't you bring yourself to see it? There's various interesting perks to peruse; Venice is utterly lovely. Heath is definitely cute. His and Sienna Miller's lack of chemistry is monumental and must be seen to be believed. All the gags and humour that fizzle out into nothingness are unnumbered and keep you eternally surprised. What's not to love? 

In all honesty, I think Casanova is a relaxing couple of hours' romp. Could have been *so* much better, but is by no means abysmal. And Heath *is* cute as long as he's keeping himself out of those powdered wigs.

[serious crayons]

Now this makes me curious. Why can't you bring yourself to see it? There's various interesting perks to peruse; Venice is utterly lovely. Heath is definitely cute.

I know. If I'd seen it before BBM, I'm sure I would have liked it.

I remember watching the trailer and thinking, Who IS that guy? He looks really familiar. Oh yeah, Heath Ledger. Well, he looks pretty cute there. And Sienna Miller is cute too, and always so fashionable in real life. I was just in Venice, so it would be fun to see it on film. I'll go see that one for sure!

Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance before seeing BBM. And now ... I'm just ultra-sensitive about seeing Heath as anyone other than Ennis. I can hardly stand to watch him as himself!

As for Batman, I hope I didn't oversell it. Partly I'm influenced by what I think the filmmakers were trying to achieve. I wish they would have pushed it a little more, in fact -- made it grittier and even more realistic and abandoned all obligations to the superhero genre. But they gave it a good try.

[Ellemeno]

[southendmd]

Oh, Clarissa,
That is too scary to even entertain.
I fear he just may be made up like that.
Oh, the horror...

[Meryl]

Clarissa, go to your room, and don't come down until you're ready to behave politely to your fellow Heathens!        

[Ellemeno]

Clarissa, go to your room, and don't come down until you're ready to behave politely to your fellow Heathens!        

Believe me, I wasn't a gonna post this on the Heath Heath Heath thread (though Paul did, and pinned the rap on me).  And also, it now occurs to me to say I found this and did not create it.  There was a link to it on the IMDb Heath board.  I am distancing myself, see?

[Mikaela]

Erm.....  Is it just me who finds that manip strangely fascinating? Quite intrieguing, even - that mix of delightfully happy boyishness and weird, unabashed madness?

I actually find that manip to be a surprisingly good sell for Heath as the Joker. 

 


**slinks away, astounded and confounded at self**

[Meryl]

Believe me, I wasn't a gonna post this on the Heath Heath Heath thread (though Paul did, and pinned the rap on me).  And also, it now occurs to me to say I found this and did not create it.  There was a link to it on the IMDb Heath board.  I am distancing myself, see?

That's not an excuse, Missy!  And as for Mikaela, I've made her an appointment with the school psychologist for tomorrow.  Gah, fangirls!   

[Ellemeno]

That's not an excuse, Missy!  And as for Mikaela, I've made her an appointment with the school psychologist for tomorrow.  Gah, fangirls!   

To borrow Perf thread notation:

%% I expected this to not go over well on the Heath Heath Heath lovefest thread, but it just blew by, eclipsed by the "Is it Heathcliff, or just Heath" subplot.  I thought here on this thread it would be observed in a dispassionate, analytical manner. %%

* Fine, send me to my room, I'll just watch my TiVoed Ten Things and Knight's Tale. *

(( Stomps upstairs, slams door loudly, flomps down on bed with TiVo remote. ))

[Meryl]

To borrow Perf thread notation:

%% I expected this to not go over well on the Heath Heath Heath lovefest thread, but it just blew by, eclipsed by the "Is it Heathcliff, or just Heath" subplot.  I thought here on this thread it would be observed in a dispassionate, analytical manner. %%

* Fine, send me to my room, I'll just watch my TiVoed Ten Things and Knight's Tale. *

(( Stomps upstairs, slams door loudly, flomps down on bed with TiVo remote. ))

       %% WHAT- EVARRR! %%     

[vkm91941]

Here's the latest on this rumor as of today on IMdB

Phillippe Lands Two-Face Role?


 Ryan Phillippe may be set to take over from Tommy Lee Jones after reportedly landing the role of Harvey Dent/Two-Face in the upcoming Batman Begins sequel. Reese Witherspoon's husband will join Heath Ledger, who has signed on to play The Joker, and new Batman Christian Bale in The Dark Knight. Crash star Phillippe beat Liev Shreiber and Josh Lucas to the role of the scheming district attorney, played by Jones in 1995 movie Batman Forever, according to internet reports. Academy Award winners Sir Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman have also joined the cast, while fellow Oscar winner Philip Seymour Hoffman is in talks to play The Penguin in the new film.

Seems the rumor mill has all the Oscar, SAG and GG nominees staring in major roles in the new Batman.  Even IMdB is posting it all as a question?

[serious crayons]

Seems the rumor mill has all the Oscar, SAG and GG nominees staring in major roles in the new Batman.  Even IMdB is posting it all as a question?

Well, this must be a good sign, hunh? I assume they've seen the script or somehow know the movie will be good.

[delalluvia]

Here's the latest on this rumor as of today on IMdB

Phillippe Lands Two-Face Role?
Ryan Phillippe may be set to take over from Tommy Lee Jones after reportedly landing the role of Harvey Dent/Two-Face in the upcoming Batman Begins sequel. Reese Witherspoon's husband will join Heath Ledger, who has signed on to play The Joker, and new Batman Christian Bale in The Dark Knight. Crash star Phillippe beat Liev Shreiber and Josh Lucas to the role of the scheming district attorney, played by Jones in 1995 movie Batman Forever, according to internet reports. Academy Award winners Sir Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman have also joined the cast, while fellow Oscar winner Philip Seymour Hoffman is in talks to play The Penguin in the new film.

Seems the rumor mill has all the Oscar, SAG and GG nominees staring in major roles in the new Batman.  Even IMdB is posting it all as a question?

Not good news if true.  Many things ruined the other Batman run, one of which was loaded casts where you had many good people, but little screen time, so you got little characterization other than cardboard.  The sound of all these wonderful people up for roles gives me a bad feeling.

I was hoping the Joker would be played dark - a real person, a psychopath with a sick black sense of humor, not some clown in makeup.  Since when does someone who likes to play jokes have to dress like a clown?

[littleguitar]

I was hoping the Joker would be played dark - a real person, a psychopath with a sick black sense of humor, not some clown in makeup.  Since when does someone who likes to play jokes have to dress like a clown?

I agree completley, that's the same thing I was hoping.  I also don't like the sound of the villain overload... stick with one, maybe two villians.  That's one of the reasons the original Batman and Batman Begins worked so well and the others didn't as far as I'm concerned 

[Meryl]

Ryan Phillippe seems like a rather bland choice for the Harvey Dent role compared to Liiev Schreiber.  I wonder how that came about. 

[Ellemeno]

Ryan Phillippe seems like a rather bland choice for the Harvey Dent role compared to Liiev Schreiber.  I wonder how that came about. 

That's what I was about to say.  He sure ain't no Tommy Lee Jones.

[serious crayons]

Also, I'll have to say, I'm almost as worried for Christopher Nolan as I am for Heath. I loved Memento. I thought Insomnia was really good. Why does it seem that creative interesting directors tend to slip into comic-book mode after they've made a couple of well-respected films? Is it the lure of money, or the challenge, or what?

[Ellemeno]

Why does it seem that creative interesting directors tend to slip into comic-book mode after they've made a couple of well-respected films? Is it the lure of money, or the challenge, or what?

We could ask Ang.

[serious crayons]

We could ask Ang.

 

Good point! Let's hope for everyone's sake that Batman Begins doesn't go the way of The Hulk.

Ang, judging from his comments in interviews, seemed genuinely surprised and disappointed that The Hulk was a failure. So maybe for him it wasn't all about the $.

[Mikaela]

I don't think it's ALL about the money, though I can't help thinking that plays a big part - perhaps mostly for those studios who think a good / proven director will help them milk the most out of the franchise and put money, pressure and/or promises to bear to get such directors on board.
I think to the directors the challenge has to be a big part of it. At least I hope that's why Ang Lee took on the Hulk (a film that I didn't appreciate much when I finally saw it.) The challenge of operating within strict frames of plot and well-known OTT characters and action scene requirements and all that, satisfying all those conventions and limits, being subjected to the scrutiny of fans who in many cases already live and breathe this world and the characters too - and yet manage to come up with something original, expressive, interesting and meaningful. And fun. 

It's like the old Norse poets who had to write within so strict rules for syntax, syllables, rhythm and rhymes, required imagery, required symbolism etc. that it's a marvel they didn't all write the same poem. Yet some of the best are true and unique masterpieces.

[serious crayons]

It's like the old Norse poets who had to write within so strict rules for syntax, syllables, rhythm and rhymes, required imagery, required symbolism etc. that it's a marvel they didn't all write the same poem. Yet some of the best are true and unique masterpieces.

Good point, Diane. I can see that. And within those limitations, they can kind of let their imaginations run wild, because they aren't bound to the laws of reality.

[vkm91941]

Warner Bros. has confirmed that Heath Ledger will play The Joker in the upcoming Batman Begins sequel. In addition to the Ledger announcement, Warner Bros. also revealed the sequel's title to be The Dark Knight..



Well we all known Heath is a deeply serious actor with the chops to make this performance stunning, let hope they given him something good to work with.  I for one hope they forego the  urge for too much clown makeup while trying to perserve the integrity of the original comic books.  Also lets not forget that Jack Nicholson created this character once for this francise

[vkm91941]

This is the photo-shopped pic going around IMDb but the consensus seems to be that this like Batman Begins will once again be a more stylised less comic book approach to the story

[ranchgal]

over on page 49 of the HHH thread, Mainwriter put up one of the most attractive Heath as  the Joker speculations I have seen.  I don't know how to link it right now.

We have never seen Heath be truly bad before, and I think the stretch and the opportunity the role will afford him will be something very special to see.  The Joker may not be my favorite villian, and I really didn't care about JN's version of him much either--but truth be told---I have only thought one Batman movie was really well done and well storylined---and that was Batman Begins---and with the same director's vision, and the same basic cast---I see this as one sequel that could be better than the first one even--so  I am excitely optomistic about it and Heath's role in it.    Seems like this director likes all his characters mulit-dimentional, and that adds a lot to the movie in my opinion.
at least the Joker doesn't dress up in wierd spandex outfits--a little face paint is neither here or there to my vision of psycho killer who likes to delve into extremes.

[slayers_creek_oth]

I'm excited to see how he pulls it off.  Its an out there role and should be a challenge...which is probably what Heath was lookin for.  He does have some funny facial expressions and although he is very shy in public appearances he doesn't seem to be at all shy in front of the camera when filming movies (singing in Ten Things, dancing in A Knight's Tale, and acting dead drunk in Brokeback)...

I think he'll do good...

[horo35]

It's too bad he's taking such a role.  But I for one hate the Batman movie franchise!  The 1st one was fine..then it just got ridiculous after that.  He could've been good in that new movie coming out..The Illusionist