Author Topic: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights  (Read 9360 times)

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2009, 12:58:37 am »
I don't know anything about anyone's diary, but SOMEBODY went digging to find these "former lovers, tricks, and members of the general public who have seen them in situations where they either solicited public sex, bought it or contracted for it, and then insisted on secrecy after the fact." I suspect it was the filmmakers themselves. All these witnesses didn't just get together and decide to make a movie.

and who decided these people were credible? I could say that Milo and I are lovers all day long that doesnt' make it true. it is hearsay...and that is not proof. that is a hatchet job.


Offline louisev

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2009, 01:00:45 am »
someone went looking for these guys?

No.  Someone didn't go looking for them.  They went looking for a reporter is what happened.  As in the case of Larry Craig's teenage lover, who came forward when he saw Craig on TV saying "I am NOT Gay!" and got so mad he had to tell someone.  And when he told someone in D.C. at a gay bar, they encouraged him to give an exclusive scoop to Wonkette.com, which actually broke his story.

He is on the trailer for this film, and here is the original story

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3604

So no, nobody went looking for David Phillips.  You sure are making a lot of assumptions about this film, and I have to wonder why.

And as far as "Gay party" goes, it does need attribution because the only references to something called "the Gay party" leads back to your Androphilia author, not to any concept that is in common parlance, nor is it in common usage except maybe between you and other people on a reading list for that book.

And I have to say I'm not very happy about the idea of using some private "catch all term" that designates a non existent (except to you and others who read this book) entity made up of self-identified gays and lesbians and possibly others who are hunting down closeted politicians and seeking murky political goals that you disapprove of, because that really does sound like dog-whistling against gays using new terminology.  The way the term "San Francisco" (sometimes pronounced with an audible lisp) is a dog whistle against gays.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2009, 01:24:18 am »
someone went looking for these guys?

No.  Someone didn't go looking for them.  They went looking for a reporter is what happened.

Really?? I doubt it. I think the filmmakers went looking for them. Do you actually know anything about how this film was made?? Or are you just speculating in a different direction than I am??

You sure are making a lot of assumptions about this film, and I have to wonder why.

Because the trailer makes it look like tabloid TV. So naturally I'm expecting something sensationalized and manufactured.

And as far as "Gay party" goes, it does need attribution because the only references to something called "the Gay party" leads back to your Androphilia author, not to any concept that is in common parlance, nor is it in common usage except maybe between you and other people on a reading list for that book.

Last time I checked, this was a conversation, not a scientific research abstract. People invent phrases, share unique terms (like nicknames) among small groups of people, etc. all the time. I don't have to walk around citing that my source for the word "ass-hat" is a fellow opera singer named "Jimmy" when I'm having a conversation with people. So I don't need to do it here. If you don't understand, feel free to ask me what I mean.   

And I have to say I'm not very happy about the idea of using some private "catch all term" that designates a non existent (except to you and others who read this book) entity made up of self-identified gays and lesbians and possibly others who are hunting down closeted politicians and seeking murky political goals that you disapprove of, because that really does sound like dog-whistling against gays using new terminology.  

Again, my intent is not to "dog whistle" at anyone.

Let me see if I can clarify with an example...

Back during the previous election, I was using the term "Christian Party" on a popular opera blog. I used it to describe the broader, politically-active Evangelical-types. Of course there was/is no such entity, but there do exist national, local, community, etc. organizations that share commonalities like those I used to describe the Gay Party. Nowadays, I have replaced that term with "Fundies," which I didn't coin. None of the opera singers stopped to ask me who I was talking about. And I doubt that I've confused anyone by using the term "Gay Party."

Another thing to keep in mind is that people create contractions, acronyms, nicknames, etc. as a means of linguistic economy. It helps get the point accross with fewer syllables.

The way the term "San Francisco" (sometimes pronounced with an audible lisp) is a dog whistle against gays.

Really? First I've heard of it.

Rx
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2009, 01:30:12 am »
Really?? I doubt it. I think the filmmakers went looking for them. Do you actually know anything about how this film was made?? Or are you just speculating in a different direction than I am??

Because the trailer makes it look like tabloid TV. So naturally I'm expecting something sensationalized and manufactured.

Last time I checked, this was a conversation, not a scientific research abstract. People invent phrases, share unique terms (like nicknames) among small groups of people, etc. all the time. I don't have to walk around citing that my source for the word "ass-hat" is a fellow opera singer named "Jimmy" when I'm having a conversation with people. So I don't need to do it here. If you don't understand, feel free to ask me what I mean.   

Again, my intent is not to "dog whistle" at anyone.

Let me see if I can clarify with an example...

Back during the previous election, I was using the term "Christian Party" on a popular opera blog. I used it to describe the broader, politically-active Evangelical-types. Of course there was/is no such entity, but there do exist national, local, community, etc. organizations that share commonalities like those I used to describe the Gay Party. Nowadays, I have replaced that term with "Fundies," which I didn't coin. None of the opera singers stopped to ask me who I was talking about. And I doubt that I've confused anyone by using the term "Gay Party."

Another thing to keep in mind is that people create contractions, acronyms, nicknames, etc. as a means of linguistic economy. It helps get the point accross with fewer syllables.

Really? First I've heard of it.

Rx

wow...you were on a forum where people were more interested in what you SAID rather than playing a game of 'gotcha' and 'distract with trivial crap when they dont' have anything to refute the argument with'??

that is cool. you are very lucky...

Offline louisev

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2009, 01:30:54 am »
Really?? I doubt it. I think the filmmakers went looking for them. Do you actually know anything about how this film was made?? Or are you just speculating in a different direction than I am??

not at all speculating. I know the story of David Phillips from when it broke.  I recognized him in the trailer and I even made a link to his interview on radio for your convenience just now.  Nobody went looking for him.  He was a nobody with a story about Larry Craig and went on radio with it in November 2007.  I just follow the news.

The same thing also happened to Rev Ted Haggard - that was also a front page story when he was caught buying meth and sex from a gay hustler and then went on TV insisting that it was some one-time thing and he's not gay and the hustler, who was his regular trick got angry about Haggard lying so profusely to the public and went public himself.  As a prostitute he was under no "obligation", personally or politically, to keep Haggard's twisted lies for him.  He paid him for sex, not permanent cover.

So if you don't know anything about these guys then you're not very well read or keeping up with the news.  A lot of this stuff WAS linked in current events right here on Bettermost, too, as being items of "gay interest", as opposed to "gay party interest."
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2009, 01:33:55 am »
I think Milo is quite well read, thank you...he just reads more than the Daily Kos and the National Enquirer...


Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2009, 01:46:40 am »
not at all speculating.

So they ALL are cases where the information was public knowledge already??

And even if ALL the cases in the movie are just revisiting issues already made public, I still disagree with the movie as a political tool, and the political assumptions it seems to make. Honestly, all lI have to go on is the trailer and the article, so I'll really have to go see it. I cannot offer too much criticism without seeing the film. I certainly wouldn't presume to criticize a book too deeply if I had not read it, so I won't make that mistake here. 

As a prostitute he was under no "obligation", personally or politically, to keep Haggard's twisted lies for him.  He paid him for sex, not permanent cover.

A prostitute?? Maybe, maybe not. In my experience, hos keep their mouths shut about their Johns. Sure plenty brag, and some will say anything for the right amount of money.

A man?? Nope. Real men would never do anything so dishonorable to each other.

Rx
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2009, 01:51:12 am »
So if you don't know anything about these guys then you're not very well read or keeping up with the news.  A lot of this stuff WAS linked in current events right here on Bettermost, too, as being items of "gay interest", as opposed to "gay party interest."

I'm very well read on the topics I where I find value. I see little value in tabloid-style scandals whether they are celebrities, or politicians.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline louisev

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2009, 01:52:14 am »
So they ALL are cases where the information was public knowledge already??

And even if ALL the cases in the movie are just revisiting issues already made public, I still disagree with the movie as a political tool, and the political assumptions it seems to make. Honestly, all lI have to go on is the trailer and the article, so I'll really have to go see it. I cannot offer too much criticism without seeing the film. I certainly wouldn't presume to criticize a book too deeply if I had not read it, so I won't make that mistake here. 


two I saw in the trailer were.  I only saw the trailer, you know, the film hasn't come out.  However, two out of the four shown in the trailer is plenty to refute your snap judgement that "it's a witchhunt by the filmmakers and the Gay Party (sic)"  The information was in the public domain already and has been for at least 2 years on those cases.

And you've already condemned the thing as a witchhunt by the nonexistent Gay Party, and now you can't offer too much criticism without seeing it? ?  How much is too little I wonder?
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2009, 01:56:29 am »
two I saw in the trailer were.  I only saw the trailer, you know, the film hasn't come out.  However, two out of the four shown in the trailer is plenty to refute your snap judgement that "it's a witchhunt by the filmmakers and the Gay Party (sic)"  The information was in the public domain already and has been for at least 2 years on those cases.

And you've already condemned the thing as a witchhunt by the nonexistent Gay Party, and now you can't offer too much criticism without seeing it? ?  How much is too little I wonder?

For anyone who they out in this movie who was NOT publicly outted before, they ARE on a witch hunt. If even 1 man's life is ruined by this film, that is one too many.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.