Author Topic: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights  (Read 9361 times)

Offline louisev

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2009, 01:59:42 am »
I guess if you consider anti-gay-crusading politicians quality of life as more valuable as the lives of male escorts and prostitutes who "aren't men" then that is not a surprise.  I don't think of sex workers as less than human, personally.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2009, 02:08:12 am »
I guess if you consider anti-gay-crusading politicians quality of life as more valuable as the lives of male escorts and prostitutes who "aren't men" then that is not a surprise.  I don't think of sex workers as less than human, personally.

HUH?

now this is the most illogical thing I ever saw....

let me try to figure this one out..


Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2009, 02:09:52 am »
I guess if you consider anti-gay-crusading politicians quality of life as more valuable as the lives of male escorts and prostitutes who "aren't men" then that is not a surprise.  I don't think of sex workers as less than human, personally.

- I might be willing to concede that these politicians were indeed acting against the interests of sexual minorities IF I could take a look at the legislation that the filmmaker takes issue with. I would like to assess the "damage" they have done to equality of sexual minorities for myself. Then I'll decide about them.

- You know, you really shouldn't be lecturing me about sex workers. I've been around the block. Unless you have either been one, or bought one, you really cannot challenge me on the topic. I don't think of sex workers as less than human either. But I will tell you that some sex workers are real men, and others aren't. The real men would never do what these men have done unless faced with jail time or some such coercion.


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  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline David In Indy

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2009, 02:10:47 am »
I guess if you consider anti-gay-crusading politicians quality of life as more valuable as the lives of male escorts and prostitutes who "aren't men" then that is not a surprise.  I don't think of sex workers as less than human, personally.

I just hope and pray for the day when the word "gay" and "homosexual" is not associated with the word "sex".

I don't like my sexual orientation automatically being connected to some kind of sex object. We are more than that. We are people too.

And we will continue to be associated with sex and sexual objects until gay people STRAIGHTEN UP, and act like the decent human beings we are meant to be.

Okay. Go ahead and fire the flames. I've said it. And I meant it. We'll never achieve any equal rights at all until we begin to act like decent humans. Aren't we decent? Let's show the rest of them! :D



Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2009, 02:18:24 am »
I just hope and pray for the day when the word "gay" and "homosexual" is not associated with the word "sex".

I don't like my sexual orientation automatically being connected to some kind of sex object. We are more than that. We are people too.

And we will continue to be associated with sex and sexual objects until gay people STRAIGHTEN UP, and act like the decent human beings we are meant to be.

Okay. Go ahead and fire the flames. I've said it. And I meant it. We'll never achieve any equal rights at all until we begin to act like decent humans. Aren't we decent? Let's show the rest of them! :D





yes you are a decent person. and no you are not all about sex.

you are about taking care of your family and honoring the memories of your ancestors....you are about loving your friends and helping them anyway you can, you are about caring for the planet and all living things on it...you are about enjoying popular culture and spending time having fun..

it is a shame that a handful of loudmouth rude people can ruin a demonstration or get the spotlight while people like you and Brad and Milo are out there every day making a real difference with the people you meet.

{{{David}}}

I am proud to call you friend.

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2009, 07:38:40 am »
Again, there is no uniform concept of decency.  And I for one have met very few gay people who weren't at least trying to find a way to be their better selves.  But I'll admit that I've never met a perfect gay person.  However, there are no perfect straight people either, even though many of them are trying.  Do you really expect gay people to be angels, David?  Will you show them how?

of course he does not. Please do not read things into his words, David is a kind and gentle person and doesn't fight, so don't. He would be first to admit he isn't perfect.

and there IS some degree of uniformity in decency standards, Gary, it used to be called the "Golden Rule" and to be honest a LOT of us could benefit by thinking about it now and again.


Offline louisev

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2009, 11:29:13 am »
- I might be willing to concede that these politicians were indeed acting against the interests of sexual minorities IF I could take a look at the legislation that the filmmaker takes issue with. I would like to assess the "damage" they have done to equality of sexual minorities for myself. Then I'll decide about them.

- You know, you really shouldn't be lecturing me about sex workers. I've been around the block. Unless you have either been one, or bought one, you really cannot challenge me on the topic. I don't think of sex workers as less than human either. But I will tell you that some sex workers are real men, and others aren't. The real men would never do what these men have done unless faced with jail time or some such coercion.


er no.  That isn't how it works.  I don't have to be a politician to debate politics, and I don't have to be a soldier to debate the efficacy of a war, or a sex worker to debate issues regarding prostitution.  Nobody here does.  And I was responding to your comment "they are not men", which you seem to have since revised to "not real men" because they blew the whistle on their johns.  I don't buy that.  I think they are honest gay men who felt it was wrong to keep the secrets of those who were actively damaging gay rights in America.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2009, 03:00:24 pm »
er no.  That isn't how it works.  I don't have to be a politician to debate politics, and I don't have to be a soldier to debate the efficacy of a war, or a sex worker to debate issues regarding prostitution.  Nobody here does. 

Fair enough, but you certainly do lack an intrinsic understanding of these topics unless you have intimate experience with them.

And I was responding to your comment "they are not men", which you seem to have since revised to "not real men" because they blew the whistle on their johns.  I don't buy that.  I think they are honest gay men who felt it was wrong to keep the secrets of those who were actively damaging gay rights in America.

When I said, "they're not men (or real men)" I was referring to the tattle-tales, not male prostitutes in general. And even if these guys thought that the politicians in question were "damaging" equality for sexual minorities (which I still need some more information on), there are other, more honorable ways for them to take action. Real men confront the men they have a problem with...directly. Running to the media first is an act of a class-A pussy.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline louisev

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2009, 04:08:06 pm »
Fair enough, but you certainly do lack an intrinsic understanding of these topics unless you have intimate experience with them.



First of all you are making huge assumptions, and second of all, I can't believe you really want to go there on a public message board.  This is waaaay off the topic of the film and its theme.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2009, 04:34:46 pm »
First of all you are making huge assumptions, and second of all, I can't believe you really want to go there on a public message board.  This is waaaay off the topic of the film and its theme.

You're right, this conversation about male prostitutes is off topic. As for the film, I think we both should go see it, and then return to discussing its merits or lack thereof.

But let me ask the Bettermost crowd here a question. Let's suppose that these politicians did indeed do intentional harm to the equality of sexual minorities. How does outing them in a film solve any problems?
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.