Author Topic: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights  (Read 9368 times)

Offline milomorris

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2009, 04:54:44 pm »
Again, there is no uniform concept of decency. 

Nope. But there sure are boundaries around what is considered decent and what is considered indecent. The further one goes outside those boundaries, fewer and fewer people find one's behavior decent.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Offline delalluvia

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2009, 07:50:02 pm »
You're right, this conversation about male prostitutes is off topic. As for the film, I think we both should go see it, and then return to discussing its merits or lack thereof.

But let me ask the Bettermost crowd here a question. Let's suppose that these politicians did indeed do intentional harm to the equality of sexual minorities. How does outing them in a film solve any problems?

Those people who care about hypocrisy in our elected officials - and their acts - will withdraw their support from him/her and s/he therefore loses the ability to do further harm.

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2009, 09:37:55 pm »
We all set our own boundaries.  We all make our own choices.  Some of us make unpopular choices.  This is true of gay people just as well as straight people.  Is there a price to be paid for making choices that are unpopular?  Of course.  But just because something is unpopular doesn't make it wrong.  Just as something that is popular, and thus wins favor, doesn't make it right.

Do I adopt the boundaries set for me by the prevailing culture in which I live?  I often times do, yes.  It is generally easier to just go along to get along.  And usually the compromises I make with my own personal sense of morality or sense of self aren't that important to me.  But I would consider breaking convention and even the law if I felt strongly about something.  I think people sometimes need to follow their own conscience and heart regardless of the possible consequences.  This is the difference between being your own person and being a bootlicker.


or the difference between someone that has people he loves and someone that is alone in the world.

You make compromises for the people you love, sometimes those compromises are TO the people and sometimes they are FOR the people you love.

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2009, 10:49:27 pm »
so if you felt it was moral to steal from a store if the clerk is rude....and the person you love doesnt'...you feel that they should accept you the way you are, even though you could wind up in jail...or else they don't really love you??


injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2009, 10:52:01 pm »
the point I am making that decency or morality doesn't exist in a vaccuum. they didn't just develop to oppress people. They come into being from a desire to coexist peacefully.

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2009, 11:18:10 pm »
Any others named besides these:
      "Outrage" - "Out" on May 8 - Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/28/outrage-documentary-activ_n_192476.html

see the trailer at the link:

Outrage," a new documentary from filmmaker Kirby Dick, takes issue with the secret lives of closeted gay politicians -- especially conservative Republicans who outwardly oppose gay rights.

The film, which premiered last week at the Tribeca Film Festival, features tell-alls from men who say they've had relationships with various Republicans, including Florida Governor Charlie Crist, Bush strategist Ken Mehlman and former Senator Larry Craig.

According to Magnolia Pictures, "Outrage" is a "searing indictment of the hypocrisy of closeted politicians with appalling gay rights voting records who actively campaign against the LGBT community they covertly belong to."

In the documentary, Dick lambastes the mainstream media for not better investigating the politicians' "hypocrisy" and double lives. He told New York magazine that the film explores "the issues surrounding closeted politicians and their hypocrisy in voting anti-gay -- and how these people have harmed millions of Americans for many years."

"Outrage" premieres May 8 in five cities, including Washington, D.C.               

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2009, 07:47:12 am »
What a person is willing to put up with is up to the individual.  

but still you are thinking only in terms of "me me me"...love thinks in terms of the other person. Stealing (as in my example) results in a loss of freedom, a loss of dreams, puts the person at risk of physical harm....if you care about someone you will try to protect that person from these things.

I am reminded of a PSA I saw a few times....a girl stands on a train track, stoned out of her mind and a train is barreling down on her, she is too stoned to notice. Her friend stands to the side watching and crying and shaking, saying "it's her choice! I can't tell her what to do!! It isn't my place to judge, is it??"

Love sees the other person needing help and reaches out a hand to pull them to safety.

injest

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2009, 07:55:38 am »
There is value in knowing about hypocrisy I think.  There is value in knowing that no matter how hard you try to beat down gay desire, it still pops up, even among those who are fighting hardest to keep it at bay.  And there is some justice in outing someone who has used their authority to harm the gay community.  Why should these men of authority get to go on doing their damage while they secretly engage in the same activity they denounce and, in effect, escape punishment? 

you are making the assumption that every one of these prostitutes, tricks, etc are telling the truth. How does one verify this? In cases where the politician (or whoever) has already been outed, that is one thing but it comes down to he said/ HE said here. And when is that acceptable? If it were a straight man, who was virulently anti adultery, would we take the word of a random whore or would we expect some backup of some kind?

the movie hasn't been released and we dont' know what and who is being talked about really but I am suspicious of anything that has as it's proof the testimony of whores.

sorry. They dont' seem overly trustworthy...if you are willing to let someone have sex with you for money, it is also pretty durn likely you would be willing to lie for a few bucks too...

Offline delalluvia

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2009, 08:35:23 am »
Quote
For instance, if I saw a couple of my male neighbors kissing in the laundry room here at my apartment complex, I donít think Iíd out either of them.  If I knew one was married and had a family, Iíd still likely stay out of it.

But the existence of a wife and family would make things a bit more murky I think.

The existence of AIDS makes it even more of murky situation.  The husband may be closeted, may be desperate to hold onto his 'normal' life, but is so out of control that he can't think of the health risks - not only to himself, but to his wife.

In that case, since it is unknown whether he is taking precautions or not, it becomes a matter of the wife's life.

A friend of my sister was living with his lover.  He was terrified of AIDS and glad that he'd found someone to settle down with.  His lover was a avid athlete, and every few days before dinner - the friend was cooking - his athletic lover would jog around the local park. 

It wasn't a secret to anyone other than the friend what his lover was doing at that park. 

My sister and her friends were in a quandry.  Tell the friend or not?

I would have dropped an anonymous note.   My sister and her friends ended up doing nothing.   

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: "Outrage" - Documentary Outs Gay Politicians Who Fight Gay Rights
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2009, 11:32:43 am »
Maybe some of the men deserve to be outed, and maybe some of them donít.

Sorry, but it seems to me that any politician who can be reasonably shown to be gay, or even bisexual, who actively works against gay rights, deserves to be outed.

Perhaps there could be "collateral damage," but I'm perfectly prepared to lay that at the door of the politician, not at the door of whoever outs him--or her.

Perhaps the life of a spouse and/or children might be "ruined" by the outing, and they have my sympathy, but maybe the politician should have thought about that before he or she married and had children.

(I feel essentially the same way for the family of a heterosexual politician caught patronizing prostitutes. Take the Eliot Spitzer situation for an example. I feel sorry for Mrs. Spitzer and their daughters, but the fault for "ruining" their lives lies with Spitzer, not with the media who "outed" his patronizing of a high-end hooker.)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.