Author Topic: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...  (Read 6327 times)

Offline littleguitar

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,325
  • She was always a lonely child...
What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« on: July 31, 2006, 11:23:59 pm »
So, I was just visiting TOB, which I hadn't done in a while but I'm bored tonight and thought I'd check it out, and there is a thread going where some people are now claiming that during the first tent scene, Jack says "F*uck me" when they begin having sex...

Am I losing my mind? This is not there, is it? This is even worse then the claim that Ennis says "I love you" during the shirt scene  :-\
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Offline RouxB

  • BetterMost Welcome Wagon & Contributor
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,471
  • ...a love that will never grow old
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2006, 11:53:24 pm »
Have mercy!

No, no, and uh, no.

 O0

Heathen

Offline littleguitar

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,325
  • She was always a lonely child...
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2006, 11:59:40 pm »
LOL my thoughts exactly Ruby!  :o
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Offline Aussie Chris

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 613
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2006, 12:19:26 am »
For goodness sake... to think they used to worry about idle hands! ::)
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare

Offline Ellemeno

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,367
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2006, 01:11:39 am »
some people are now claiming that during the first tent scene, Jack says "F*uck me" when they begin having sex...

Well, little hunnies, I have heard it.  I didn't believe it til I listened carefully, and now I hear it clear as a bell.  Here's the BetterMost thread where we talked about it a while back, and I and others describe where we hear it:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=2401.0;all





Offline littleguitar

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,325
  • She was always a lonely child...
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 01:16:11 am »
Crazy Elle, I'll have to go back and watch it, then.  Didn't mean to sound so skeptical, it's just there have been so many different claims like this...

Oh well, anything that gives me another reason to watch that scene, right?  ;)
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Offline Ellemeno

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,367
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 01:18:29 am »
Ironically, it happens to be reply #69 where I describe what I hear.  How could I have not heard it until someone suggested it to me?  It's the same as the point when Jack says, "Give 'em hell."  I never heard that til someone wrote that it is there.

Offline littleguitar

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,325
  • She was always a lonely child...
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2006, 01:21:19 am »
I was the same with the give em hell line, now I hear it every time and it cracks me up... the same with the peeing sheep.  There are some things that I can't help but notice every time, even though I know I should be focusing on other things  ::)
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Offline JennyC

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 812
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 01:24:43 am »
I hope Melinda see this thread because she will be thrilled.  This is what we talked about in detail at Kirk's farewell party.  Personally I still have not heard it, but I believe what Melinda said that Jack/Jake indeed said the words twice.

Offline littleguitar

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,325
  • She was always a lonely child...
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006, 01:34:32 am »
I just watched a few more times and still haven't heard it  :-\

I'll give it another go tomorrow...
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,703
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2006, 03:43:26 am »
I've never even been able to ahe a clear view on the s'alright debate never mind this but will look out for it next I watch!

remind me - where is the give him hell line and peeing sheep again!?
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline Shuggy

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 433
  • 1964 - 2006
    • The Ataahua Shop
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2006, 03:59:53 am »
I think we should be very wary of these things that you don't hear until you listen for them. They sound to me much like the "backward masking" that 666-hyperactive fundie christians hear in rock music.

When I was a child crawling in the roofspace of our house, I thought I heard my mother calling to me. I answered. She spoke. We had a conversation. When I came down it turned out she had been in a different part of the house and her side of the conversation had never happened.

In spite of Dolby, there is still always some white noise at the bottom of every sound track. White noise is by definition random. Therefore if you listen for any particular sounds, your brain is able to hear them in among the rustling hiss.

The test will be if a listener can hear them who
  • can't see what's happening on screen, and
  • doesn't know what they are supposed to hear
Better still, several such listeners
BetterMost, all of such listeners

(I just wanted to find a use for the expression. :) )

Offline Pipedream

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,118
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 04:03:51 am »
Nicely put, Shuggy! I've been watching that scene with headphones and the sound turned up real loud, and I couldn't hear those words. But I believe one could imagine them... Does it matter?

 :)

Offline Sheriff Roland

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,492
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2006, 04:34:22 am »
I too have not heard the "F*ck me" line uttered by Jake/Jack in the first tent scene - though I do hear the - (what sounds like) "Me" word - once.

As for the "Sorry" "S'alright, s'alright" line in the second tent scene - they may want to write (engllish subtitles) that that is what actutally transpired, but my audio experience tells me otherwise.

BTW, Elle, - at what point in the movie are you refering to, when you hear Jake/Jack say "Give 'em hell"? - Don't know this one!  ???

 .... A thousand sheep and we all focus on that damn peeing one!  :laugh:

2015 - Toronto: Pan Am Games
2015 - Edmonton, Montréal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg: Woman's World Cup of Soccer

Offline Sashca1007

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 310
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2006, 04:52:43 am »
Ha!  Jenny, you're right, I'm seeing it and I am thrilled!    I'll tell you why.  I certainly don't blame any of you for being skeptical about the idea of hearing Jack say those words.  Some of us have seen the movie in theatres with spectacular sound systems (i.e. Mill Valley and the Castro) and most of us never heard these words at all.  It wasn't until Elle mentioned it to me that I decided to try my best to hear Jack's spoken words, the ones I've dubbed 'Jack's Sweet Plea' (in my mind, anyway!). 

I don't have headphones, so...  I turned off everything in the room that could possibly be making noise, even my computer (panic sets in) ....  must have silence!  Then I started the DVD at the point of beginning TS1.  I actually placed my ear up to the speaker, listening carefully, until....   OH  MY  G-GOD!!!!  He just said...   WHAT??!!  I replayed it over and OVER and over, each time reeling from the impact it was having on me.  How could I have missed THAT?  Well, the truth is, anybody could miss 'that', because it is said so quietly (and sweetly, IMO  :) )  After my numerous times of confirming I heard what I heard (yes, with my ear pressed up to the speaker)  I stepped back and watched the visuals that coincided with the two 'F*ck me's' that I heard Jack say, so that when I'm watching (hopefully in a theatre, sometime soon,) I'll know when to listen for them. 

The moment *I* heard Jack's pleas for the first time, it was late at night, and with this new 'discovery' (for me) my heart was racing, and I wanted to share it with someone!  I immediately turned my computer back on, and came to the Bean Site (well, who ELSE would care?!) and found Victoria and Roland in the chat room--  I couldn't contain myself, had to blurt out my 'news' to them, or anyone who would listen.  Neither of them had heard it at that point, but promised to listen again--  I later received a PM from Victoria confirming she had, indeed heard it!   As Jenny can tell you, when I brought up the subject at our dinner with Kirk recently, Julie outright scoffed at the idea, waving her hand in dismissal at my words.  However, she was open-minded enough to listen to my 'story'.   Possibly my reminder of her previous dismissal at the idea of 'The Hands' (as presented by me) was enough to at least bring her to saying she'd listen for the 'Pleas'.   Lo, and behold --  a PM later from Julie, telling me SHE heard it, though only once, not twice.  she said she had been listening for the wrong thing,
Quote
Heard it...but only once. As with the "give' em hell," I was lizstening for the wrong thing---a loud, exclamation, involuntary. But it's quiet, clearly spoken
.  She thanked me, and said she wasn't quite sure what to make of this idea, Jack using these words to Ennis.

For me, it just adds a whole new dimension to the scene.  It may offer the suggestion that Jack was, indeed, more worldly than Ennis and that he has experienced this before (as we might suspect).  It's the WAY he says it that makes the difference for me....   not something harsh or crude, but....  as I said...  Jack's Sweet Plea(s).   OH-H-H!!!!   And then...  it sort of hit me--  was this scripted??  No, we know it isn't in the screenplay....   but, did Mr. Lee or anyone else add it in?  Now, here is where my imagination runs wild, friends....  when I wonder...  did those words just involuntarily come out of JAKE?!  In the moment?!  Okay, maybe not, but....   :o  I get my own little thrill, first out of Jack saying this to Ennis, but secondly-- imagining Jake saying it to Heath!  And, because it was said so quietly, he had to know that millions (?!) of people would not hear it....   and yet, know that millions of people could.  Now, that's what excites me. 

For those of you willing to give it a try---  listen just after Ennis 'enters' Jack, and you'll hear the first one...  the second one comes just a few short beats later, just as we see Jack's head drop closer to the tent floor.  It's just like what littleguitar said about the 'Give 'em hell' line--  once you've heard it..   it will always be there for you, enhancing your enjoyment of the scene.  I have a feeling our beloved movie will be continuing to unfold and reveal itself, one sweet piece at a time, for years to come.  I think of 'Brokeback Mountain' as being like the great love of our lives....  bowling us over with its initial emotional impact, capturing our hearts, but maintaining its relationship with us by offering up revelations a little at a time that will hold our interest for years. Gotta keep those campfires burning!  ;) 
"From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking."

Offline David

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,097
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2006, 07:49:35 am »
I didn't hear it at the 7 times I saw it in the theater. 

I didn't hear it the first several times I watched the DVD.

But the week before last I was watching the DVD on a very quiet day and I HEARD IT!    And I heard it before it was ever suggested to me here or anywhere else.

I thought it was my imagination!   Naw!  they couldn't have...  but it is almost an imperceivable gasp by Jack in TS1 as Ennis rides him.    Great ad-libbing by Jake.  Must have made the Audio editors cringe when they heard it.  But nonetheless, it is still there very very soft.   It is almost like a gasp..  "uhhck me".   

Hot Jake,  hot indeed!!!   ;)

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,288
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2006, 09:03:32 am »
I thought we had discussed this to death over on the Open Forum, but it bears repeating!  ;D If you want to check that discussion, it is called "The Almost Imperceptible I love you." We started out by determining that the I love you exists and went on to the F**k me. I think we also touched on a few others...
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline littleguitar

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,325
  • She was always a lonely child...
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2006, 09:34:20 am »
I've never even been able to ahe a clear view on the s'alright debate never mind this but will look out for it next I watch!

remind me - where is the give him hell line and peeing sheep again!?


"Give em hell" is right after Ennis says "I'm gonna go up to them sheep now!" Jack says it... it isn't one of those white noise things, it's pretty clear and I think the subtitles pick it up to (though I still didn't hear it until someone mentioned it being there)

The peeing sheep happens when they are first bringing the sheep up Brokeback, that's the best I can do.  But I promise you, once you see it, that's all you'll see  :laugh:


P.S.  Sorry everyone, I didn't know this had already been brought up... thanks for reliving it with me, though! I guess this is what I get for never reading other areas of bettermost  ::)
‘cause the truth is, I already give him everythin’ I got to give, more than I ever even knew I had; ‘n it all for him, all of it, him who is my brother, my father, my child, my friend, my lover, my heart, my soul; my Ennis.

-- del Mar Painting, Ch. 48 by b73

Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2006, 09:35:24 am »
I don't have headphones, so...  I turned off everything in the room that could possibly be making noise, even my computer (panic sets in) ....  must have silence!  Then I started the DVD at the point of beginning TS1.  I actually placed my ear up to the speaker, listening carefully, until....   OH  MY  G-GOD!!!!  He just said...   WHAT??!!  I replayed it over and OVER and over, each time reeling from the impact it was having on me.  How could I have missed THAT?  Well, the truth is, anybody could miss 'that', because it is said so quietly (and sweetly, IMO   )  After my numerous times of confirming I heard what I heard (yes, with my ear pressed up to the speaker)  I stepped back and watched the visuals that coincided with the two 'F*ck me's' that I heard Jack say, so that when I'm watching (hopefully in a theatre, sometime soon,) I'll know when to listen for them.

When I first got the DVD, I watched this scene particularly several times because it was the first time I'd really seen it. Before, I'd just seen that gawdawful darkened version they used in theatres, what I'd dubbed the Psycho Cowboy Psuedorape Scene.

No earphones but on about the 4th viewing, I was closer to the TV as there was a glare from the windows and was trying to get around it and heard it! It was quiet enough that I'm not sure Ennis would have heard it but I half-expected Jack to look out of the screen and say "weren't expecting that, were ya?" or even "what are you lookin' at?"   ;D

Offline Ellemeno

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,367
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2006, 11:42:15 am »
where is the give him hell line and peeing sheep again!?

Peeing sheep - as they and the sheep are heading up the mountain for the first time.  Give em hell - Right before TS1, when Ennis says he better be getting up to the sheep.  Though I never heard this until it was pointed out to me, afterward I discovered it is right in the subtitles.

vkm91941

  • Guest
Re: What? Something new and insane about the dialogue...
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2006, 12:06:55 pm »
Hey Mandy you know me I don't hear any of that odd ball stuff folks say they hear...but I heard this, I even replayed it at full blast, sat close to the speaker and did not look at the pictures just listened intently to the sounds they make in tent scene one and it is a breath of sound, a sigh almost as the "action" heats up but yes indeed Jake says it...twice... faintly and, just like Heath's shy little nuzzel and kiss to Jakes chest in tent scene 2  it adds a depth of reality to the performance and makes me even more impressed with these two excellent young men