Would Ennis Commit Suicide?

[dly64]

I think the views that Ennis' attitude toward homosexuality doesn't change much, that he blames gayness rather than killers for Jack's death, that he's unable to experience his own feelings, that he didn't accept Jack's love, and so on -- those views don't giving Ennis enough credit.

Being raised homophobic and terrified doesn't, in my view, preclude Ennis' ability to change. Many people overcome, at least partly, childhood prejudices and terrible baggage. Why would Ennis be any less capable? He's uptight and inhibited, but not stupid or insensitive. And he has a lot of experiences of the sort that would lead one to change.

I acknowledge that I don’t understand Ennis as well as Jack. Much of what I think and feel is from the perspective of someone who has been constantly disappointed by a person who I have loved. But I do think that experiencing a traumatic event, especially in childhood, leaves an indelible mark. I am not implying Ennis is stupid or insensitive. What I am saying is that everything Ennis thinks and feels (especially in regards to his sexuality) is filtered through the teachings of his childhood.

Let me try to explain this in a different way: A child is raised in a strict God-fearing home and is taught that sex is evil and bad (especially outside of marriage). So, when s/he reaches adolescence and begins to become aware of his/her own sexuality there is conflict. S/he has been taught to hate his/her feelings. Consequently, every relationship this person goes through is tainted by his/her perception that sex is dirty. It is extremely difficult to extricate that point of view. Ultimately, this person has troubles acknowledging/ accepting that sex is a good thing … especially when it is with someone you love …  that it is enjoyable and that it can be an expression of two people’s love for each other. It doesn’t mean this person can’t change. It just means that what s/he was taught as a child never goes away completely.

Just because Ennis is withdrawn doesn't mean he has no understanding of his own emotions. Yes, sometimes they are explosive, and he is skilled at hiding and repressing them. But I see no evidence (in the movie) that he never recognizes them at all. The last day on Brokeback, for example, BEFORE the fight, he goes off and broods. Not about his lost pay, I'm pretty sure. There are lots of times when he appears to be wracked by his own feelings. Granted, he never talks about them to anyone, even Jack. But we, the viewers, can see them pretty clearly. (That's the genius of Heath's performance, if you ask me.)

If I insinuated that Ennis is completely out of touch with everything he thinks and feels, then I am wrong. Maybe the way to describe it is that Ennis has a lot of fear in regards to his emotions … he is not comfortable expressing them (with the exception of anger).

Just because Ennis is homophobic doesn't mean he would be morally blind enough to blame gayness itself, rather than murderers, for Jack's death. I don't think he interprets even Earl's death that way, let alone Jack's. He was warped by his father's bigotry, but I think he knew full well that Earl's murderers were wrong.

Honestly, I don’t think we disagree. Maybe I have not expressed myself clearly. I am not saying that Ennis would excuse the murderers. It is more that Ennis believes Jack became a target because he was a homosexual.

To me, the main plot of the movie is Ennis coming to terms with his sexuality -- albeit too late. That's the tragedy. He does take some leaps -- TS1 was a biggie -- and he makes gradual progress throughout the movie (people "suspect"). And by the end, well, I'm not saying he goes on to become a gay rights activist or anything, but I think that in realizing what he his homophobia cost him, he comes to some degree of private peace with his sexuality.

Not with his grief, though. Maybe it's just that his grief shows him there are worse things in the world than being gay.

I think he did accept it, completely. Only on his own terms, though, which meant seeing each other occasionally in the wilderness rather than living together openly.

I agree with much of what you are saying. The biggest difference is that I don’t think Ennis was ever at “peace” with his sexuality. Yes, he came to realize that he was gay. But I don’t think he was ever comfortable with it. However, when it was just Jack and Ennis on BBM, Ennis had the freedom to express his sexuality and his love for Jack openly. But isn’t that what BBM represents, at least in part? The freedom from societal bigotry and hatred … the feeling that they were invisible … that it was only the two of them and nothing else mattered? Isn’t that what Ennis tried to return to every time he and Jack went on one of their so-called fishing trips?

I think the time they spent together was wonderful. I'd be overjoyed to have a relationship like that, even on an occasional basis (though of course, like Jack, I'd want more). But yes, he's undoubtedly mad at himself for letting his fears keep him from enjoying all the time they could have had together.

I agree. OMG ... can this be true!? 

[serious crayons]

Wowee! I think maybe we do agree on quite a bit more than we previously thought.

 

Of course, there are a FEW little things ... 

I acknowledge that I don’t understand Ennis as well as Jack. Much of what I think and feel is from the perspective of someone who has been constantly disappointed by a person who I have loved.

I was wondering about that, given what you've mentioned about your life. And, as I've said, I relate more to Ennis. I'm more outgoing and open, but there are other aspects of his personality I recognize.

Not the childhood scarring, thank god. I had a pretty good childhood. Still, I've known people who weren't as lucky, and yet managed to find health and happiness as adults.

But I do think that experiencing a traumatic event, especially in childhood, leaves an indelible mark....

Absolutely. I'm not saying he'd ever completely forget about his past, or that those teachings would be easily overcome.

A child is raised in a strict God-fearing home and is taught that sex is evil and bad (especially outside of marriage). So, when s/he reaches adolescence and begins to become aware of his/her own sexuality there is conflict. S/he has been taught to hate his/her feelings. Consequently, every relationship this person goes through is tainted by his/her perception that sex is dirty. It is extremely difficult to extricate that point of view. Ultimately, this person has troubles acknowledging/ accepting that sex is a good thing.

I guess I view people as frequently more flexible and resillient than that. Sure, those parental teachings can lead to big internal -- or external! -- conflict, particularly in adolescence. But I have friends with very strict sex-is-bad Catholic backgrounds who, upon reaching maturity, were able to look around and see that there are healthier ways of viewing sexuality. I also know, or know of, open-minded people who grew up in bigoted families, moderate drinkers whose parents were alcoholics, leftists raised by right-wingers, and so on. I know all kinds of adults whose family backgrounds are extremely different from their lives now, because they got exposed to other ways of thinking and realized they no longer agreed with their parents.

I'm not saying that kind of deep-seated change is easy or quick. Of course there's struggle. Maybe it often involves some kind of epiphany or conversion experience, or meeting someone influential -- teacher, lover, friend -- with a very different view.

And it varies by degree and life experiences and character. Some people obviously never reject their childhood teachings or overcome those traumas. But in any case, plenty of people do. They never forget what they learned in childhood, but they are able to see the flaws and move forward.

Now for Ennis, it would be particularly difficult. He's uneducated, he has always lived in the same area and is among the same kind of people he grew up with (those big changes often seem triggered by education or a different environment or meeting people with different outlooks). And his father's views were passed down in a particularly harsh and cruel way -- through terror -- and hit particularly close to home for Ennis because of his own sexuality. And in his case, the views he needs to reject aren't just held by his dad, but by pretty much everyone around him.

So change would be incredibly difficult. That's probably why he doesn't progress much over 20 years -- except when really big things (good or bad) happen to him.

One is falling in love with Jack, and deciding to act on it at Brokeback, and to continue the relationship later. Another is the big argument with Jack and Ennis' breakup with Cassie. And another is Jack's death and the events that follow: the phone call to Lureen, the visit with the Twists -- one of whom is loving and accepts their relationship, the other of whom is hateful and in many ways resembles his own father but amazingly accepts their relationship nevertheless -- and then his own unfathomable grief.

All these experiences, IMO, lead him to new ways of looking at things that are quite different from what he was taught growing up.

[SFEnnisSF]

I read a heartbreaking fan fiction where Ennis went up to Brokeback and took his own life.  It was plausible & sensitively written. 

What was the name of that Fan Fiction?

[ednbarby]

What was the name of that Fan Fiction?

I wonder if she meant that one of Jeff's I've always loved so much.  I don't recall him taking his own life actively in that one, but doing it in that passive way we've discussed and going up there to die when he knew he was on his way out.  "Some Sweet Life," isn't it?  Help me out, Jeff.  Or someone else who knows what I mean.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I wonder if she meant that one of Jeff's I've always loved so much.  I don't recall him taking his own life actively in that one, but doing it in that passive way we've discussed and going up there to die when he knew he was on his way out.  "Some Sweet Life," isn't it?  Help me out, Jeff.  Or someone else who knows what I mean.

Aw, thanks, Barb. 

In my story, "Some Sweet Life," Ennis basically goes back to the mountain to die, but he doesn't kill himself.

I also remember a story I read on LiveJournal, titled, I believe, "A Dying Wind," which I remember as implying that Ennis goes back to the mountain to die, but I don't remember him actively killing himself in that story, either.

I remember "A Dying Wind" as being generally a very good story, and also very well written, though I took issue with one aspect, Ennis remembering, ahem, a certain sexual action said to have taken place before he and Jack came down off Brokeback that I found implausible, given what we know of Ennis in either the story or the film.

[ednbarby]

I remember "A Dying Wind" as being generally a very good story, and also very well written, though I took issue with one aspect, Ennis remembering, ahem, a certain sexual action said to have taken place before he and Jack came down off Brokeback that I found implausible, given what we know of Ennis in either the story or the film.

:thud:

{Barb runs off to find that story.}

 

I haven't really read that one (yet), but I reckon you're right. 

[Jeff Wrangler]

:thud:

{Barb runs off to find that story.}

 

I haven't really read that one (yet), but I reckon you're right. 

Barb,

If you can't find "A Dying Wind," let me know. I just checked my files and I forgot I had downloaded it.

Jeff

[dly64]

I say, “No,” to his committing suicide, not just because he’s a stander. When he faces a “crisis” moment (big or small), he tends to deal with it immediately: he confronts the bikers, figgers he can drop the kids off with Alma, punches the truck driver. If Ennis were going to kill himself over the loss of Jack, it’d be more likely to happen right after he returned home with the shirts, or even on the way home (driving off a mountain, maybe). Jack has been dead for a while and Ennis is still around, even putting numbers on a mailbox and looking darned pleased with how nice they look.

I think it’s significant that Proulx writes, “Around that time Jack began to appear in his dreams...” and not “He began seeing Jack everywhere he looked...”

I would say that Ennis deals with crises impulsively versus immediately. He has a way of stuffing his emotions until they come exploding out. It’s not the bikers or the truck driver that cause Ennis to explode. That is only the manifestation of his frustration and fear. The only time Ennis is “in tune” with his emotions is when they relate somehow to Jack. Examples of this would be when, post mountain, Ennis breaks down after Jack drives away; or when Ennis is pacing and watching the window for hours for Jack to arrive … when he (Jack) does, Ennis is infused with joy.

Although I don’t think Ennis would overtly kill himself, I do think he would have become more withdrawn and bitter. Eventually, Ennis would have allowed himself to whither away and die. Depressing to be sure, but IMO accurate. In Ennis’ world, he has nothing left … “If you don’t have nothin’ you don’t need nothin’.”  What does Ennis have left? A memory of a time and place where he (Ennis) loved Jack openly and honestly and the grief and guilt over having squandered the nearly 20 years of their lives together.

When Oregon was debating assisted suicide, one psychiatrist observed, “Suicide is the simultaneous inflicting and relief of pain.” Ennis is in a lot of pain at many times during his life, but would he seek to relieve (fix) it in the “ultimate” way? I don’t think so. “You’re stayin’ on your feet, cowboy” has several meanings.

I like this observation … one I have not thought about previously.

[nic]

What was the name of that Fan Fiction?

Sorry, I can't recall it as it was in the early days.  It was quite detailed about the plans Ennis made going up to the mountain.  It wasn't Jeff's, although I do like his story    Not sure if it was A Dying Wind as I can't find that one to compare.  I'll check around a bit more and post again if I find it.  Sorry to have piqued your curiosity and not following through.

[Marge_Innavera]

I'm not saying he'd ever completely forget about his past, or that those teachings would be easily overcome.

I guess I view people as frequently more flexible and resillient than that. Sure, those parental teachings can lead to big internal -- or external! -- conflict, particularly in adolescence. But I have friends with very strict sex-is-bad Catholic backgrounds who, upon reaching maturity, were able to look around and see that there are healthier ways of viewing sexuality. I also know, or know of, open-minded people who grew up in bigoted families, moderate drinkers whose parents were alcoholics, leftists raised by right-wingers, and so on. I know all kinds of adults whose family backgrounds are extremely different from their lives now, because they got exposed to other ways of thinking and realized they no longer agreed with their parents.

I'm not saying that kind of deep-seated change is easy or quick. Of course there's struggle. Maybe it often involves some kind of epiphany or conversion experience, or meeting someone influential -- teacher, lover, friend -- with a very different view. . . .

Now for Ennis, it would be particularly difficult. He's uneducated, he has always lived in the same area and is among the same kind of people he grew up with (those big changes often seem triggered by education or a different environment or meeting people with different outlooks). And his father's views were passed down in a particularly harsh and cruel way -- through terror -- and hit particularly close to home for Ennis because of his own sexuality. And in his case, the views he needs to reject aren't just held by his dad, but by pretty much everyone around him.

I absolutely think that Ennis could go through some big changes in the years following the end of the original story, but never get away from his problems completely. That's how it generally is when people make big changes - they come slowly, in layers, but when someone seems to just totally and quickly change that's often bad news. The reality is that there's been very little change but the person starts going to opposite extremes to "prove" to themselves otherwise.

Ennis' isolation is a major factor: he wouldn't even have much way of knowing that his own experience isn't a completely unique one.  But one thing that might move him around a bit geographically is that the mobility in American life got ratcheted up considerably after the early 1980s, not that it hadn't been a marked trend since WWII. And for Ennis, that might mean his daughters would eventually move out of the area. If the alternative is being left completely alone with no contact with Junior or Francine/Jenny other than phone calls, he might very well move to be near them or even live with one of them after he's somewhat older.

In short, my guess would be that Ennis might change a lot over the years, might even find someone else but given the human psyche's resistance to change, we couldn't expect to see him at the Gay Games or becoming any kind of social butterfly.