Author Topic: Interesting article about celebrity gay gossip. Discusses Jake Gyllenhaal.  (Read 24899 times)

Offline opinionista

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Hey folks,

Below is an article I borrowed from another site. I was debating whether post it here at CT or at Anything Goes. But since Jake Gyllenhaal and the gay rumors surrounding him have been discussed a lot in this forum, I thought it was proper to post it here. I think the article is very interesting, and worth discussing. Enjoy.


Rumor Has It: The Gay Gossip Mill in the Age of Blogging
by Kim Ficera, August 2, 2006

“Gyllenhaal's not gay… and the gays all want him. They're done with Cruise, they've had it, he's too crazy…You know the gays are moody. You gotta keep up...”
--Comedian Kathy Griffin on Larry King Live, July 11, 2006.

“I understand why people think we're gay.There isn't a definition in our culture for this kind of bond between women … But for people to still be asking the question, when I've said it and said it and said it, that means they think I'm a liar. And that bothers me …All my stuff is out there. People think I'd be so ashamed of being gay that I wouldn't admit it? Oh, please.”
--Oprah Winfrey, in the August 2006 issue of O Magazine, answering the rumors surrounding her relationship with her best friend, Gayle King.
 

With so many deliciously crazy homophobic folks for us to feast on, why do we continue to eat our own?

We've devoured all the gay rumors about Jake Gyllenhaal, Oprah Winfrey, Anderson Cooper, Jodie Foster, Kevin Spacey, Tom Cruise and others, and then licked our lips. Many of us in the gay and lesbian community--especially bloggers, many of whom operate under the motto, “We Speculate, You Decide”--have helped initiate and spread the sexual innuendo. But it's the gay media, we who pride ourselves on reporting facts not insinuations, who give credibility to the unsubstantiated by relaying it with an air of authenticity. Why?

Admiration for the famous? Disdain? Mere sexual attraction? The hunger for truth? Drama? Sure, I'll buy it all. But regardless of what Kathy Griffin thinks, it's not because we're moody.

We speculate for lots of reasons, not the least of which is because it's our job to observe and report. While most respectable journalists stop short of actually outing closeted celebrities, some of us pass the rumors on to readers because if we don't, the mainstream media or unreliable bloggers will, and they're apt to be even more insensitive than we can be.

But primarily we dish because we're selfish. The gay community is part of the human race and, just like everyone else, we're programmed to survive. But since we can't procreate in the sense that we can reproduce our own kind at whim or after a few pitchers of margaritas, we promulgate--we endure through declaration. And we proclaim with great pride.

Gay gossip columnist Perez Hilton, the man currently being credited with first “outing” Lance Bass, the gay community's newest member, in his column last September, reasoned it this way to Access Hollywood: “Being gay is not a death sentence for a performer in show business. We need to get out of that mind frame. It's 2006 people!”

Gossip columnists like Perez don't simply nod in agreement of the saying, “There's a little bit of truth to every rumor,” they chant it like a mantra. And they do that because they've seen (or know somebody, who knows somebody, who knows somebody, who's seen) a superstar of Tom Cruise's caliber, well, cruise--without a big boat.

“It upsets me that people think what I'm doing is a bad thing,” Perez said. “If you know something to be a fact, why not report it? Why is that still taboo?”

Those questions have turned editorial meetings into war zones for decades, and there are decent arguments on both sides of the table. On one hand, we don't like being lied to by our own kind. The lies translate to shame and there's nothing positive about feeling crappy about being gay. On the other, there's the issue of privacy. Coming out is a very personal choice. When the media outs stars, it's seen by some, yours truly included, as a direct hit below the belt.

But what about the rumors that we pass on, knowing full well they're probably not true? Why, for example do we continue to insinuate that Oprah Winfrey and Jake Gyllenhaal are gay when it's pretty clear they're not?

I've been thinking about this for some time, and aside from the obvious answer (celebrity gossip is fun!), I believe that when we give life to the notion that where there's same-sex smoke, there's a big gay fire, we plant seeds of possibility. And we hope that with a bit of nurturing they will take root and become trees that bear the fruit of full acceptance.

Gossip vends the truth that gay people are, indeed, everywhere, and reminds the public that despite religious or political beliefs and social ignorance, millions upon millions not only respect us, but love us to obsessive extremes.

We want desperately for Oprah to be a lesbian because she'd grant the entire GLBT community a level of respect we just don't have now. How could our families, friends and all the folks in middle America take issue with homosexuality if Oprah, the queen of personal responsibility, spirituality and goodwill, is a lesbian?

So we throw what we know about her and her best friend, Gayle King, out there for the public to chew on and digest, because the next best thing to Oprah actually being a lesbian is the illusion that she's one.

It's not surprising that journalists (or anyone else, for that matter) might run amok with even the tiniest morsel of gay-suggestive information about the famous. In fact, it's rather logical. One doesn't have to be a physicist to deduce that the law of averages dictates there are a lot more gay celebrities in the closet than out of it.

Remember, too, that most gay rumors don't just appear out of thin air--there's usually a factual base. However weak that fact might be, it's still a juicy actuality.

For instance, not that long ago Oprah booked a suite, sans her boyfriend Stedman, in the Bahamas, where she was giving a wedding for her niece. In walked Gayle, with luggage and also without a man. That's a fact. What's not clear is whether they shared a bed and body fluids during their stay. It's likely they didn't. But is it possible? Sure.

Print it!

But gossiping about influential, gay-supportive celebrities in ways that question their integrity and good intentions isn't the best way to thank them for all they've done for the gay and lesbian community. We're better than that.

Aren't we?

Yes. But graciousness isn't the name of the gay gossip game, and the game isn't played to win as much as it's exploited to feed itself.

Everyday gossip about this entertainer or that serves, primarily, to raise Hollywood revenues and make red carpets and dinner parties more interesting, but gay rumors about our most beloved entertainers serve a much bigger purpose--to feed authenticity and suffocate deception. The rumors say to celebs, “Come on, get over yourselves! Be honest!”

But the thing is, even when they are honest, like I believe Jake and Oprah have been, we still can't let them be. Even after they've told us they're straight, even when they've proven time and time again that they're on our side, starred in gay movies, done pro-gay television episodes, we tell them that all they've said and done isn't good enough, and try to make them one of us--as if that's possible.

Oprah is not a lesbian. She's said so a gazillion times before her most recent denial in her own magazine, and I believe her. Even though I've done my share of spreading the Oprah-is-a-lesbian innuendo in search of a laugh, no matter how often I suggest that she's gay, my wisecracks and wishful thinking are not going to make her gay.

As for Jake, AfterElton's own Michael Jensen has also had fun with the joke that Jake is secretly his boyfriend. It's all meant in jest, but one has to wonder if Jake would be amused.

We can find hundreds of pictures of Jake in spandex on the Internet, but all that makes him, I believe, is a straight man in "gay" clothing. He can ride a bike with Lance Armstrong and, yes, play the bottom to Heath Ledger's top in a film, but he still prefers girls. He can even kiss Elton John in a pup tent on George Michael's front lawn, if the occasion arises, but that won't make him gay … or British, for that matter.

What the gossip might make him, though, is angry.

Oprah's frustrated with the gay and lesbian community, that's clear. She's tolerated the lesbian rumors for years, but she won't tolerate being called a liar. Jake's got to be telling Andy Towle, a blogger on a tongue-in-cheek mission to make Jake gay, to get a life. Do these stars have a right to be upset, or is the rumor mill a price they must pay for being famous? Both, I suppose, but when is enough, enough?

We get angry with filmmakers for making too few queer-themed movies, and get frustrated with stars who refuse gay or lesbian roles, but can we really blame them for not wanting to play in our yard when we're not exactly cordial hosts? Many in Hollywood probably think they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

So what, if anything, is the gossip and outings doing to the way celebrities (closeted and not) think about us, and does their frustration/anger roll over to the public in ways that are damaging to us?

I think we have to be very careful in answering those questions, because it's easy to make mountains out of molehills. The rumors insinuate that stars are gay, not axe murderers. Yes, rumormongers aren't very considerate, but it's not exactly a newsflash that some gossip queens are pissy. No one would ever vote E!'s Ted Casablanca Miss Congeniality, for example. But are gossipers guilty of harming celebrities? I don't think so. Where's the evidence?

Hollywood is the home of self-imposed self-importance. I think entertainers sometimes forget that they do not walk on water. Some celebs are more powerful than others, of course, but no one in Hollywood is curing cancer. And, more importantly, no one is begging for food on off-ramps because of a gay rumor. A little perspective is in order before anyone starts crying foul.

In light of his DUI last week and his anti-Semitic and expletive-laced rant during his arrest, Mel Gibson would probably admit that he would rather have been caught singing “I'll Be Good For You” with Lance Bass on Hollywood Boulevard. My bet is that even he'd agree that being suspected of being gay would be less harmful to his career than being proven a vulgar, sexist, Jew-hating drunk.

And the public view of gay gossip? That's a no-brainer. No one is supporting a federal amendment against same-sex marriage because some gay people like to tell tales.

No, we won't stop spreading rumors because it's detrimental to us or to our favorite stars. But maybe we should stop because it's simply not a very effective way to reach our goal of acceptance.

With very few exceptions--Lance Bass being the most recent--the rumor mill has proved ineffective time and time again. Tabloid history has shown us that we can print all the rumors we want, but rarely does something we write cause a star to say, “All right already! You've forced me out. I'm gay.”

Even if it's confirmed, without a doubt, that Tom Cruise, Kevin Spacey, 6-10 percent of the NFL, NBA, NRA, PLO, PTA, etc. are gay, the validations probably won't be a result of gossip. When celebrities come out, most do so of their own accord and only when they're ready.

The ultra-famous, such as Ellen DeGeneres and Rosie O'Donnell, made a lot of noise coming out, but that's no surprise--the ultra-famous like grand entrances. The equally secure but lesser known come out rather nonchalantly, though. They discuss their sexuality with reporters as if recalling a favorite meal.

Nelly Furtado, for example, came out uneventfully in the pages of Genre magazine recently. When asked if she was attracted to women, she said, “Absolutely. Women are beautiful and sexy.” And then she went on to talk about Chinese medicine and balanced energies.

The insecure and closeted, on the other hand, will probably always remain tight and close-mouthed, while the extremely insecure will always protest far too much and be litigious.

The stars who loudly deny they're gay would probably rather die before coming out to the public, because not only does their shame run deep, but also their lies become their truths. Those folks have rung the “I'm Not Gay!' bell so loudly that they'll never be able to un-ring it.

If Tom Cruise, for example, is really gay and he came out tomorrow, it would be news--sort of--but the real story would be the anatomy of his denials. Today Cruise is viewed as an overconfident nut case; tomorrow he'd be one of the biggest liars Hollywood has ever seen. He'd be more than just a laughingstock--he'd be a sham, relegated to playing golf with O.J. Simpson. Tom Cruise come out? Mission Impossible, indeed.

So, it seems to me that speculation about the sexuality of celebrities, while endlessly entertaining, is more ineffective than it is efficacious. It's also valueless. We can get more useful information watching VH1's 40 Awesomely Bad Fashion Moments. Panty lines could kill you, socially speaking. But speculating about whether or not Jake Gyllenhaal and Oprah Winfrey are gay won't ruin or make fabulous our lives.

So forgive me Oprah, for I have sinned. I have wanted you to be my savior, my dyke in Vera Wang armor. I have mumbled the words, “Liar, liar, pants on fire!” many times under my breath to you. I'm sorry. But please try to understand that the rumors aren't about you, even though I know it feels like they are. They're about us.

But if it makes you feel any better, I promise that I now accept that you are not a lesbian. I will from this point forward leave you alone and go back to dishing and wishing that Jodie Foster and Katherine Moennig would just come out already. Unlike you, they couldn't dismiss me with such a convincing, “Oh, please,” if their lives depended on it.



http://www.afterelton.com/people/2006/8/gossip.html
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 12:01:10 pm by opinionista »
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline David

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Interesting article.   All valid points.  It is just human nature to be curious. 

For the record: I think Jake is 100% Straight.   And yes, I do fantasize that he is Gay and comes to my house in a big limousine and wisks me away.   But it is more likely that I'll win the lottery and monkeys will fly out my Arse!

Until I see a photo of him performing oral sex on a guy, he is not gay, but just Gay friendly in my book.  And for a straight person to be Gay friendly, that is a good thing.  And the more straight folks who are comfortable around gay people the better for all of us.   


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Thanks for posting, Natali. An interesting and thought-provoking read.

Jeff
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline opinionista

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Yeah, i thought it was very interesting, and it got me thinking too. However, while I think privacy is important, a gay or lesbian celebrity shouldn't be really afraid of coming out in public. I don't think that'll mean the end of their careers. Not necessarily though. Most of gay/lesbian celebrities aren't really in the closet, and there are many people who know for a fact who's gay and who isn't. So there's no point to hide it from the public because sooner or later they're going to be seen with their couples out somewhere.

For example, Ricky Martin. Rumor has had it for a long time that Ricky is gay. But I know for a fact that he is indeed gay, and that he has a long time boyfriend (or used to have one). How do I know it? Well, as some of you already know, I reside in Spain but I'm from San Juan, Puerto Rico just like Ricky Martin. We're more or less the same age, and even though I've never met him, we actually have friends in common. Puerto Rico is a small island, and San Juan is small as well. I also have friends in common with Benicio del Toro, though I've never ever met him.

The thing is that I have several friends who know Ricky Martin because they either grew up with him, worked for him, or know some relative or friend of his. And they assure me  Ricky is not only gay, but happy and proud of it. He doesn't really hide it. He does travel to San Juan with his boyfriend, and has been seen hanging on the beach with him. But I still wonder why he doesn't come out in public. He might lose a few girl fan or two, but the gay community will root for him I think. I'm not really a fan of his, but I know people enjoy seeing him shake his bom boms. And he's pretty hot too.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 10:21:56 am by opinionista »
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline serious crayons

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I've always figured that the main reason gay movie stars don't come out is not so much the fear that homophobic fans will instantly turn against them (after all, who turned against Ellen?), but because they're afraid -- or at least they're afraid that directors and casting people would be afraid -- that it might hurt their credibility with audiences when they play straight romantic roles.

But BBM has taught us that crossing sexual orientations needn't be an impediment. Jake and Heath are far more credible in their roles than the vast majority of straight actors playing straight lovers! So presumably, it could also work the other way around.

Very interesting essay, Natali. Thanks for posting it.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 11:37:55 am by latjoreme »

Offline Flashframe777

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Very interesting article.  I have to agree that coming out should be no big deal.  I also do not agree when people get all bitchy with the gay rumours, but mainly because it is done with a condemning tone. 

Now as far as Jake G. is concerned, from my own encounters I am "intrigued" because he hangs out a lot in my very very very gay neighborhood.  But then again so do many other famous hotties. 

About 10 years ago I had an epiphany of sorts.  Considering myself to have honed my gaydar sensitivies to a point beyond super-refined, I thought I was aware of most of the gay people around me.  I followed the old 1 in 10 Kinsey philosophy.  However, suddenly people I'd assumed were 100% hard cold straight came out as gay -- not just a few, but  a lot of them.  It was such an eye opener for this gay man that I had to adjust my scale to a more sensible  ratio. 

This seems closer to the truth, than what is ever purported in the media.  A puerile yet sufficient example: when you watch those appraisal shows like Antique Roadshow you'll notice all the high estimates are fine and good, but if you watch the actual auction or follow up on what those items actually sold for tends to be three times more than the conservative estimate. 

The Kinsey Scale of 1 in 10 has proven that way for me.  One's a very conservative number, but the reality is somewhere closer to three - in CONSERVATIVE parts of the country.  In big cities those numbers are going to be higher - 4 to 6, even.  My rule for LA and New York is 4 to 6 in every 10.  In West Hollywood it's 7.5 in 10.

That said, must I be forced to go out on the limb about the beauteous salt and pepper of all news anchor hotness, Anderson Cooper?  Praises be to the Archangel of Prada, he's gay.  This I know from personal experience.  He goes out to our gay hangs from time to time in LA.  I am going to keep my lips zipped tight on Donny Deutsch though.
"yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"


Offline opinionista

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Very interesting article.  I have to agree that coming out should be no big deal.  I also do not agree when people get all bitchy with the gay rumours, but mainly because it is done with a condemning tone. 

Now as far as Jake G. is concerned, from my own encounters I am "intrigued" because he hangs out a lot in my very very very gay neighborhood.  But then again so do many other famous hotties. 

You know, I would also be intrigued about Jake if I see him hanging out a lot in a very gay neighborhood. However, in Madrid I know a lot of people, both women and men, who are straight as an arrow and hang out in Chueca, Madrid's very very very gay neighborhood. In Madrid's case, the gay neighborhood has some the best bars and restaurants of the city. I for one hang out there a lot, and I'm straight, because you can find restaurants that serve low fat, real good and cheap meals, as opposed to other places where restaurants usually serve 100% spanish food, high in fat and all. Chueca also has the best stores of the city, cute coffee shops, and bars with great music. So, maybe that could be the reason why Jake hangs out in LA's gayest neighborhood, though I don't know if that where the best restaurants or bars are in LA. Then again, who knows, maybe Jake is indeed gay or bi.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

moremojo

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But BBM has taught us that crossing sexual orientations needn't be an impediment. Jake and Heath are far more credible in their roles than the vast majority of straight actors playing straight lovers!


And, honestly, I can't imagine any other actors, gay, straight, or bi, interpreting these roles with the same excellence as Heath and Jake. Brokeback Mountain remains the most powerful love story I have seen on screen, regardless of the gender and sexual identity of the protagonists.

Offline Pipedream

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Amen.  :)

Offline nakymaton

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[regarding Ricky Martin]But I still wonder why he doesn't come out in public. He might lose a few girl fan or two, but the gay community will root for him I think.

You know, I think the entertainment industry ought to start questioning this assumption (that when a gay star comes out, he'll lose female fans) after BBM. (Before BBM started playing in theaters, there seemed to be a lot of comments about how risky the roles of Ennis and Jack were, because both Heath and Jake risked losing their young female fanbases.) Looks to me like gay roles had the opposite effect... I think that BBM earned both men plenty of new female fans, and not because of awards and Oscar nominations and everything.

(Katherine's comment is another really good point -- that there's no reason to think that gay actors couldn't play a heterosexual romance convincingly. They're all actors, after all. Their job is to disappear into their roles, and pretending to be in love with someone they aren't attracted to is just part of the work.)

Hopefully Hollywood (directors, producers, marketers) will question their assumptions. (But I was paying attention to the Oscars... and I'm not all that hopeful. Not yet, at least.)
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Offline serious crayons

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Brokeback Mountain remains the most powerful love story I have seen on screen, regardless of the gender and sexual identity of the protagonists.

I absolutely agree.

I think that BBM earned both men plenty of new female fans

I can vouch for one of them!  ;)

Quote
there's no reason to think that gay actors couldn't play a heterosexual romance convincingly.

And in fact, they obviously have done so, many many times!


Offline ednbarby

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Interesting article.   All valid points.  It is just human nature to be curious. 

For the record: I think Jake is 100% Straight.   And yes, I do fantasize that he is Gay and comes to my house in a big limousine and wisks me away.   But it is more likely that I'll win the lottery and monkeys will fly out my Arse!

Until I see a photo of him performing oral sex on a guy, he is not gay, but just Gay friendly in my book.  And for a straight person to be Gay friendly, that is a good thing.  And the more straight folks who are comfortable around gay people the better for all of us.

Well-said, David.  I concur.  But just a limousine?  Not a chariot drawn by unicorns like in my fantasy?

For what it's worth, I hang out in about the "most gay" section of South Florida (after South Beach) fairly regularly.  And I'm as straight as the day is long.  I like to go there because it's lively, fun, and most of the men and women there are young and gorgeous.  More than that, it has a soul.  I feel like I'm part of something when I hang out there.  Not at all like this infinite tropicopolis in which I live and work and everyone else walks around with hollow eyes and empty hearts.  I swear, I feel like Donald Sutherland in The Invasion of the Body Snatchers sometimes here in Boca Raton - like I'm the only one still living inside my own body.  I don't feel that way there.  Not by a long shot.
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Offline silkncense

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I hate to come out with an opposing opinion, but here goes - I recall an English actor, cast as the romantic leading man in several films within the last 5 years (?) who came out as gay.  (Of course his name totally escapes me at the moment).  I also recall reading that he later said it was the worst career move  he could've made.  I also have to say I have not seen him in many films recently, certainly not to the degree he was at that time.  So, I think it does matter to Hollywood execs in some instances.

Anyone recall who I am trying to remember? 

EDIT: The actor I was trying to recall is Rupert Everett.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 10:47:56 pm by silkncense »
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Offline Flashframe777

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I for one hang out there a lot, and I'm straight, because you can find restaurants that serve low fat, real good and cheap meals, as opposed to other places where restaurants usually serve 100% spanish food, high in fat and all. Chueca also has the best stores of the city, cute coffee shops, and bars with great music. So, maybe that could be the reason why Jake hangs out in LA's gayest neighborhood, though I don't know if that where the best restaurants or bars are in LA.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good point.  Very good point.  By the way, you know that Gael Garcia Bernal moved into our neighborhood , and has been seen a lot in West Hollywood frequenting gay coffee shops near Crescent and Santa Monica Blvd?  So has Eduardo Verastegui.  But it doesn't mean they're gay...just totally cool.  Hey, once I saw Brad Pitt at an exclusive boy party in Laurel Canyon, with a male date.  But a mutual friend who works with Pitt all the time says that Brad just loves his gay fan base.  Because of that I am more certain that Brad is straight because he's so comfortable in his skin that he could do something like that.
"yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"


Offline opinionista

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I for one hang out there a lot, and I'm straight, because you can find restaurants that serve low fat, real good and cheap meals, as opposed to other places where restaurants usually serve 100% spanish food, high in fat and all. Chueca also has the best stores of the city, cute coffee shops, and bars with great music. So, maybe that could be the reason why Jake hangs out in LA's gayest neighborhood, though I don't know if that where the best restaurants or bars are in LA.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good point.  Very good point.  By the way, you know that Gael Garcia Bernal moved into our neighborhood , and has been seen a lot in West Hollywood frequenting gay coffee shops near Crescent and Santa Monica Blvd?  So has Eduardo Verastegui.  But it doesn't mean they're gay...just totally cool.  Hey, once I saw Brad Pitt at an exclusive boy party in Laurel Canyon, with a male date.  But a mutual friend who works with Pitt all the time says that Brad just loves his gay fan base.  Because of that I am more certain that Brad is straight because he's so comfortable in his skin that he could do something like that.

Oh, I envy you Flash!!!! (in a nice way  ;)) Have you noticed my avatar? Gael Garcia Bernal!! He's so hot.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline ednbarby

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I for one hang out there a lot, and I'm straight, because you can find restaurants that serve low fat, real good and cheap meals, as opposed to other places where restaurants usually serve 100% spanish food, high in fat and all. Chueca also has the best stores of the city, cute coffee shops, and bars with great music. So, maybe that could be the reason why Jake hangs out in LA's gayest neighborhood, though I don't know if that where the best restaurants or bars are in LA.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good point.  Very good point.  By the way, you know that Gael Garcia Bernal moved into our neighborhood , and has been seen a lot in West Hollywood frequenting gay coffee shops near Crescent and Santa Monica Blvd?  So has Eduardo Verastegui.  But it doesn't mean they're gay...just totally cool.  Hey, once I saw Brad Pitt at an exclusive boy party in Laurel Canyon, with a male date.  But a mutual friend who works with Pitt all the time says that Brad just loves his gay fan base.  Because of that I am more certain that Brad is straight because he's so comfortable in his skin that he could do something like that.

True, that.  And it just belies my contention that the more homophobic one is, the less secure he (or she) is in his own sexuality.

My husband hangs out with me in Wilton Manors down here and likes it for all the same reasons I do.  He doesn't wear a wedding ring - never has - he doesn't wear a watch or any other jewelry of any kind.  It was a point of contention between us for a while, but I finally decided I'd rather be married to a guy who doesn't wear a ring but acts married than one who does but doesn't.  ANYway, because he doesn't wear a ring and is an airline pilot (and kind of a hottie in his own right :)), he has been propositioned several times by flight attendants.  Male and female.  He told the other day that last month, a male flight attendant on one of his flights to Rio asked him if he wanted to go dancing with him after they landed.  He said, "I'd be glad to go check out the club with you, but I'm straight.  And married."  He goes, "Oh, honey.  What a waste."   :o  (Too bad he didn't use Robert Preston's answer in "Victor/Victoria" to that one.)  I always appreciate that not only is he comfortable telling me these stories (in fact, I think he likes to because it inflates his own ego), he is flattered when this kind of thing happens and is respectful in his answers.  Sad thing is he also tells me that many of the pilots are some of the biggest homophobes he's ever come across.  No big surprise - ex-military, raised and regimented (with all due respect to the military, believe me) and all that.  Several times he's had to say something to a captain spewing the f-word.  His favorite response to that is "Uh, I think they prefer 'gay guy'."  That way it doesn't get him into a confrontation with a guy who is basically his boss for the month, but it keeps him from saying it again.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 10:32:28 am by ednbarby »
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Offline serious crayons

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(Too bad he didn't use Robert Preston's answer in "Victor/Victoria" to that one.)

OK, Barb, I'll bite.  ??? I saw the movie about 30 years ago and lack your encyclopediac memory for films!

By the way, I like your husband's response to the captain.

Offline ednbarby

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OK, Barb, I'll bite.  ??? I saw the movie about 30 years ago and lack your encyclopediac memory for films!

By the way, I like your husband's response to the captain.

When Lesley Ann Warren's character comes on to him and he says, "I'm gay."  She goes, "What a waste."  He replies, "I assure you, nothing is wasted."  (I have to say I actually really like her character in that movie.  She's a ditz, but she's open-minded and fun.  I wouldn't mind having a few cocktails and discussing men with her.)

And I do, too.  My boy's wicked smart.   ;D
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Oh, I envy you Flash!!!! (in a nice way  ;)) Have you noticed my avatar? Gael Garcia Bernal!! He's so hot.

I noticed, Natali. He's a dreamboat.  ;D
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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When Lesley Ann Warren's character comes on to him (Robert Preston) and he says, "I'm gay."  She goes, "What a waste."  He replies, "I assure you, nothing is wasted."

Whew! Barb, I'm glad you elaborated! For a minute there you had me worried that you meant Preston's other great line from V/V:

"There is nothing more inconvenient than an old queen with a headcold."

 ;) ;D
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Offline Ellemeno

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I hate to come out with an opposing opinion, but here goes - I recall an English actor, cast as the romantic leading man in several films within the last 5 years (?) who came out as gay.  (Of course his name totally escapes me at the moment).  I also recall reading that he later said it was the worst career move  he could've made.  I also have to say I have not seen him in many films recently, certainly not to the degree he was at that time.  So, I think it does matter to Hollywood execs in some instances.

Anyone recall who I am trying to remember? 

EDIT: The actor I was trying to recall is Rupert Everett.

You know - I won't argue whether coming out hurt him, but I never thought he was that great an actor, or appealing, that could have had something to do with it too.


Offline nakymaton

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Re: Rupert Everett:

You know - I won't argue whether coming out hurt him, but I never thought he was that great an actor, or appealing, that could have had something to do with it too.

I was trying to remember if I had seen him in anything, so I checked his IMDb profile: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000391/. I guess I've seen him in Shakespeare in Love and in The Madness of King George, but I don't remember his characters particularly from either movie. He's working (he's cast in three movies coming out in 2006 or 2007), and get this... he had a voice role in Narnia.  ;D I know a voice role isn't the same as a leading role, but... Narnia. ;D (He also had a voice role in Shrek 2. So he's been in movies that have made gobs and gobs of money, but he's had voice roles in them.)

I had heard about Everett's troubles, but I wonder if they came from audience reactions, or from studio/casting director/etc assumptions about how audiences would react? (I also wonder whether the whole "matinee idol" business drives movie success at all these days. Are there any stars, male or female, that can sell a romantic movie solely based on their own hotness? It seems to me that the "100 Most Beautiful People" lists seem to contain plenty of presumably straight actors that have flopped in romantic roles. Maybe the combination of DVDs and saturation entertainment coverage on cable and in magazines has made movies less important for fantasizing?)

I'm not saying that coming out isn't a risky career move. But I'm wondering if that's because of the way audiences react, or whether it's because of the assumptions that studios make.
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Offline opinionista

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You know - I won't argue whether coming out hurt him, but I never thought he was that great an actor, or appealing, that could have had something to do with it too.



I agree with you there Clarissa. Rupert Everett is not a good actor, and maybe that's the reason why he hasn't been in movies lately. However, Ian McKellen is very much out of the closet, and has five movies coming up in the next two years. I'm really not sure to what extent coming out of the closet actually harms a gay actor's career. I mean, Ellen DeGeneres still has a career, so does Ian McKellen and a few others. That could be pure BS coming from the studios and studio CEO's own homophobia.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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More re: Rupert Everett.

He also did a film of Oscar Wilde's An Ideal Husband, with Cate Blanchett, Jeremy Northam, and Julianne Moore, that I thought was quite good. I thought he was rather good in it, too.

Ian McKellen is working, but, let's face it, he's too old to be a romantic lead, if he ever had the looks for it, which I doubt. Maybe casting an older, "out" gay man in a character role is a no-loss/no-foul situation.

I doubt there are many people who went home and had sexual fantasies about Gandalf--though I suppose there could always be a few.  ::)
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Offline ednbarby

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More re: Rupert Everett.

He also did a film of Oscar Wilde's An Ideal Husband, with Cate Blanchett, Jeremy Northam, and Julianne Moore, that I thought was quite good. I thought he was rather good in it, too.

I liked him in this one, too.  And in "My Best Friend's Wedding," although he didn't exactly play the leading man in that one.  But I thought he was way cuter and more interesting than Dermot Mulroney at the time.  Still do, actually.
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Offline serious crayons

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I liked Rupert Everett in "My Best Friend's Wedding." I also saw him years ago in a weird, creepy little movie called "The Comfort of Strangers," also starring Christopher Walken at his creepiest.

When Rupert Everett first came out, he had a great line. Someone asked him if he feared he'd always be relegated to playing gay men, and he said that would be fine "because, contrary to popular belief, we're not all alike."

After all, how many straight actors worry about always being typecast as straight?

Still, this may just be a reassuring way for Rupert Everett to explain to himself why his career is foundering rather than consider factors that might have more to do with him. And another bad sign: he's featured on awfulplasticsurgery.com http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/005451.html
(BTW, have you all ever seen that site? It's horrifying, yet I can't look away ... Most appalling are the before and after pictures of very young, attractive actors such as Kate Bosworth or Jennifer Lopez.)

As for Ellen and Ian McKellen, one isn't an actor and the other rarely if ever plays romantic leads. I think we're past the point where any celebrity's career would necessarily plummet because the person came out. But a star who frequently plays romantic roles might be another story or, as Natali says, at least the studio bigwigs might fear that it would be another story.

I notice I don't see Jodie Foster playing many romantic leads these days. Her career is doing fine, but she usually plays moms or some other sex-free role. (Not that she's out, I realize, but ...) What if someone who does play romantic roles were to come out? Someone like, like ... oh, just to pick some random A-list actor off the top of my head ... like, say, Tom Cruise?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 05:22:14 pm by latjoreme »

Offline opinionista

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I liked Rupert Everett in "My Best Friend's Wedding." I also saw him years ago in a weird, creepy little movie called "The Comfort of Strangers," also starring Christopher Walken at his creepiest.

When Rupert Everett first came out, he had a great line. Someone asked him if he feared he'd always be relegated to playing gay men, and he said that would be fine "because, contrary to popular belief, we're not all alike."

After all, how many straight actors worry about always being typecast as straight?

Still, this may just be a reassuring way for Rupert Everett to explain to himself why his career is foundering. And another bad sign: he's featured on awfulplasticsurger.com http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/005451.html
(BTW, have you all ever seen that site? It's horrifying, yet I can't look away ... Most appalling are the before and after pictures of very young, attractive actors such as Kate Bosworth.)

As for Ellen and Ian McKellen, one isn't an actor and the other rarely if ever plays romantic leads. I think we're past the point where any celebrity's career would necessarily plummet if the person came out. But a star who frequently plays romantic roles might be another story, or as Natali says at least the studio bigwigs might fear that it would be another story.

I notice I rarely if ever see Jodie Foster playing romantic leads these days. Her career is doing fine, but she usually plays moms or some other sex-free role. What if someone who does play romantic roles were to come out? Someone like, like ... oh, just to pick some random A-list actor off the top of my head ... like, say, Tom Cruise?


OT: Thanks for that link Katherine. I'm horrified with Jocelyn Wildenstein. I knew about her when I lived in NY, but hadn't really seen how horrible she looks now. The woman must have some serious mental problem.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 04:54:55 pm by opinionista »
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Offline nakymaton

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I notice I rarely if ever see Jodie Foster playing romantic leads these days. Her career is doing fine, but she usually plays moms or some other sex-free role.

Yeah, but female roles tend to be de-sexed at a younger age than male roles do, anyway. (Hollywood just doesn't get the female mind, I tell you, assuming that women are de-sexed at age 30 or whatever...) (And as for young actresses... well, don't they tend to be very hot for a season, and then disappear very fast, so it might be hard to tell what controls their success versus failure in any case?)

Tom Cruise might be losing his clout in any case, just from acting like a nutcase. (And his movies aren't guaranteed successes, are they? He's been in quite a few movies that didn't live up to their hype in the past few years, it seems to me.)

(You know, I'm just arguing to argue. I know coming out is a risky career move for public figures, and incredibly hard for everyone else, too. But I think the problem is homophobia rather than what straight women or straight men find attractive. And homophobia is certainly a problem... but I would like to call it by name, and not pretend like it's some kind of natural behavior.)

(I should watch An Ideal Husband. At one point I was on a quest to watch every movie Cate Blanchett has ever been in, but I got distracted.)
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Offline Mikaela

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Ian McKellen is working, but, let's face it, he's too old to be a romantic lead...

Well, there *is* his Richard III. "Was ever Woman in this humour wooed? Was ever Woman in this humour won?"  :o ;)    Brilliant role, but not exactly a *romantic* lead, I suppose.

There was a very extensive interview with Ian McKellen in the April issue of the movie magazine Empire. I lost the mag during a hospital stay, which is a pity because I can't find the article online and it had bearing on the topic at hand, and also mentioned Brokeback. From what I recall, Sir Ian was pretty clear on the subject that there are many closeted actors, and that they dare not come out because the danger to their careers is too great. But I can't remember exactly which danger (being typecast, being shunted out of romantic roles, being shunted out of *any* roles) he stressed in that interview.

What I do remember though is his comment on Brokeback. In that particular interview (I don't know what he may have said elsewhere, of course) he didn't laud JG and HL for their roles, nor did he comment on the film's effect in relation to gay issues, possible increased societal acceptance, film industry impact for "gay" roles or the like. What he did chose to comment on was the remarks one of the leads (he didn't say which one but from the context I seem to recall it was Jake) had made in relation to the never-ending kissing questions. He was disappointed and annoyed that Jake had said it was "frightening" to do the kissing scene(s) with Heath. Because, sir Ian commented, "imagine if I had said that the most horrible thing I ever had to do in my career was to kiss Helen Mirren!"

Clearly, that comment goes to what has already been discussed in several entries in this thread: Actors *act* and so should be able to act gay or straight roles, including romantic roles, - whether they are gay or straight in real life.


(I was a bit disappointed about his commment on BBM though - being used to interviewers himself he must know how difficult it is to respond to many of the sillier questions (and the neverending BBM kissing questions range right up there with those) - and anyway Jake might have been misquoted or the "frightened" quote taken completely out of context. What if he was frightened he'd not manage to make the passion so believable it blazes from the screen - what if he was anxious his acting wouldn't be sufficient? The fright might have nothing at all to do with kissing a *man* and everything to do with wanting to do the role and the character of Jack justice. But I digress.   ::)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 05:21:15 pm by Mikaela »

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I doubt there are many people who went home and had sexual fantasies about Gandalf--though I suppose there could always be a few.  ::)
Gandalf, no--now Mr. McKellan himself (sir, if you please ;))...now he I could work with!

Offline silkncense

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Does anyone know at what age Ian McKellen came out as gay?  I seem to recall it was not when he was a young actor.  Also, was he ever a leading man type in films? 

I also wonder, based on the number of people who refused to see Brokeback Mountain & the number of complaints received by the Academy about it even being nominated for Best picture, if it isn't realistic for gay actors to be wary of loosing parts &/or popularity if they come out.

If there was no bigotry in this country towards gays, there would be no worry professionally & there would also be gay marriages in every state.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 09:20:47 pm by silkncense »
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Offline ednbarby

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Does anyone know at what age Ian McKellen came out as gay?  I seem to recall it was not when he was a young actor.  Also, was he ever a leading man type in films? 

I also wonder, based on the number of people who refused to see Brokeback Mountain & the number of complaints received by the Academy about it even nominated for Best picture, if it isn't realistic for gay actors to be wary of lossing parts &/or popularity if they come out.

If there were no bigotry in this country towards gays, there would be no worry professionally & there would also be gay marriages in every state.

Amen to that.  As always, LJ, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head.  It irritated me how McKellan sat in judgment of Jake like that when in fact he didn't come out professionally until relatively late in his career - as if he's the epitome of the truly authentic openly gay actor and always has been.  Please.  And yes, considering all the horseshit we've all witnessed and they've had put up with on various levels since its release (and it ain't over), it's readily apparent that Hollywood is nowhere near accepting openly gay actors as completely equal players on the leading man field.
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Offline delalluvia

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Interesting article, thanks for posting.  Yeah, I remember Ian McKellan's remarks.  We discussed it at length on IMDb.  I felt pretty much that Ian McKellan, lauded thespian elder and knight of the realm, should take it easy on those who are just starting out in their careers.

Offline serious crayons

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It irritated me how McKellan sat in judgment of Jake like that when in fact he didn't come out professionally until relatively late in his career - as if he's the epitome of the truly authentic openly gay actor and always has been. 

I remembered discussing this before, got curious, and did a search. Here's an earlier BetterMost thread:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=226.0

And here's a link to a (very brief) article about Ian McKellen's remarks:

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/mckellen%20blasts%20gyllenhaal_30_03_2006

My opinion hasn't changed much since then. The details are too disjointed and out of context to be very trustworthy. Ian McKellen's remarks are abbreviated, Jake isn't quoted directly, etc. etc.

Yeah, but female roles tend to be de-sexed at a younger age than male roles do, anyway.

To say the least.

Quote
But I think the problem is homophobia rather than what straight women or straight men find attractive. ... I would like to call it by name, and not pretend like it's some kind of natural behavior.

Sure. But I think that particular issue goes beyond what straight audiences do or don't find attractive. It's about what studio honchos THINK straight audiences will find attractive, or even what the star thinks that studio honchos think that audiences think ... And everyone could easily be wrong. They were in the case of BBM, hunh?

Offline Brown Eyes

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I think that particular issue goes beyond what straight audiences do or don't find attractive. It's about what studio honchos THINK straight audiences will find attractive, or even what the star thinks that studio honchos think that audiences think ... And everyone could easily be wrong. They were in the case of BBM, hunh?

Very nicely put, Bud.  I quite agree.  I don't know what to think about the Ian/ Jake controversy.  The fact that there was a controversy was disappointing to me... but I think you're right that what I know about the controversy is too mediated/ chopped-up/ third-hand, etc.  I really like Ian Mckellen and I'm guessing that some of this situation is taken out of context by the media.
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Offline Mikaela

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Thanks for posting the links. I was off the net for most of March and April and hadn't seen a word about this online - but of course it had to have been picked up and discussed!  I know I bristled quite a bit when I read that magazine - others would have reacted as well.

I think Ian McKellen is entitled to his opinion and to make the comment.  It just surprises me that he didn't rather choose to focus on the obviously positive aspects of BBM and of Jake's performance. The article was of the in-depth kind that I fully assume Empire would have let him read before it was printed, so I don't think they picked some random and out-of-context statement of his in order just to include it for its "controversial value".

« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 07:24:39 am by Mikaela »

Offline serious crayons

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The article was of the in-depth kind that I fully assume Empire would have let him read before it was printed, so I don't think they picked some random and out-of-context statement of his in order just to include it for its "controversial value".

I don't know anything about Empire, though as a journalist I can say I rarely let subjects read profiles before they're published. On the other hand, I never interview big movie stars, so maybe the arrangement then is different. On still another hand, if I were to let someone read their profile, it would be because it was a private, publicity-shy person talking about something very personal, not a celebrity who is used to being in print, chatting about movies.

Anyway, assuming McKellen did say that and the remark is not out of context, the comparison of Jake kissing Heath to him kissing Helen Mirren is not a good analogy. On the larger scale, it is no doubt much harder to come out as a gay actor than it is for a straight actor to play a gay man in a movie. But as far as kissing specifically, the cultural reaction to two straight men kissing is much different than it is to a gay man kissing a woman. Nobody's going to ask McKellen 15 times a day what it was like to kiss Helen Mirren.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 01:30:28 pm by latjoreme »

Offline ednbarby

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Nobody's going to ask McKellen 15 times a day what it was like to kiss Helen Mirren.

Ain't DAT the truth???!!!

Perhaps they should.  Or better yet, perhaps they shouldn't ask either question in the first place as they are both utterly assinine.
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Offline silkncense

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the comparison of Jake kissing Heath to him kissing Helen Mirren is not a good analogy.

I thought Sir Ian made his point, that as a gay man, kissing a woman was not comfortable to him just as Jake as a straight man would feel kissing another man was not comfortable (presumably).

However, the point is well made that no one questions how a male actor feels kissing a female actor.  And, it is perfectly natural that just because two people are of the opposite sex they may not have any attraction whatsoever for each other.  Jake has stated that he has been attracted to some film 'love interests' that people would find surprising & not attracted to others that people would assume he would find attractive. 

Barb - thanks.  ;)
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Offline serious crayons

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I thought Sir Ian made his point, that as a gay man, kissing a woman was not comfortable to him just as Jake as a straight man would feel kissing another man was not comfortable (presumably).

Right, I got that. And that's probably true, from a pure sexual-attraction standpoint and in a generalized way (given that individuals differ). But what I meant is that, in addition to Jake's attraction to Heath or lack thereof, he's also confronting a cultural taboo that Ian is not. So yeah, even though we may think the taboo shouldn't exist, for now it nevertheless does, and that's going to make Jake's experience different, and potentially more uncomfortable.

Still, you're right Barb, the question is pretty inane. I keep thinking think this TV interview I happened to see with Jake, right after he made "The Day After Tomorrow," in which he talked about filming the flood scenes. The water was deep and cold and dirty in the first place, and then the cast wasn't given many bathroom breaks, so pretty soon it also was filled with pee, and they did a lot of takes and things so they all had to stand there for hours ... It sounded pretty nightmarish.

Yet I bet he didn't get asked about THAT 15 times a day.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 01:31:24 pm by latjoreme »

Offline silkncense

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It is a projected uncomfortablness, I think.  The actors (not just in this film) are doing a job & choose to act a part or not.  The media, with their relentless implying that Heath and Jake should have been uncomfortable, made the issue uncomfortable.
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Offline Mikaela

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I don't know anything about Empire, though as a journalist I can say I rarely let subjects read profiles before they're published.

I used to work a bit as a journalist in a local paper some years back, and the custom there was to let persons read through lengthy "portrait" articles of this kind. Not to approve them per se - but to be given the opportunity to comment on any controversies and correct any misunderstandings. That's where my assumption came from. But I sure didn't interview any moviestars. And I've no idea if that custom is still being followed. It may well have been abandoned by now. Ordinary news stories were not treated the same way, btw.


Quote
Nobody's going to ask McKellen 15 times a day what it was like to kiss Helen Mirren.

 ;D ;D ;D

(Poor Helen Mirren, why did Sir Ian have to drag her into this..... The smileys are *not* because of her. She's a wonderful actress.)

Quote
I keep thinking think this TV interview I happened to see with Jake, right after he made "The Day After Tomorrow," in which he talked about filming the flood scenes. The water was deep and cold and dirty in the first place, and then the cast wasn't given many bathroom breaks, so pretty soon it also was filled with pee...

 :o :o :o

Suddenly I'm reminded of that telephone call scene Jake has in DAT where he "nearly drowns". *Now*, at  long last, I finally find that scene scary! Yuck! DAT was the only Jake film I'd seen prior to BBM. Hadn't even seen Donnie Darko - I've made sure to remedy that. I've seen most of his films by now. (And whatever reason Jake had for being terrified at the BBM kissing scenes, *if* that is true in the first place, - it sure wasn't because he's a sometime lousy on-screen kisser. Quite the opposite.  :P  :P Well, I guess BBM proved that. )


Quote
It is a projected uncomfortableness, I think.


I think you're very right. The interviews I've seen or read with Heath and/or Jake about the kissing (and that would ALWAYS come up) very often ASSUMED they necessarily had to have been uncomfortable/terrified/dreading it/embarrassed at it etc.etc. The question was asked with that kind of assumption blatantly clear, more often than not. And there are the actors - obliged to be polite, obliged to promote the film and not to PO the interviewer - to some extent they go with the flow. Jake is much more suave than Heath in interview situations and that may not have served him too well in relation to those inescapable kissing questions. He may sometimes have responded a little too humorously or gone a little too far in seeming to buy into the assumptions made by the interviewer, IMO - especially when later read, repeated or quoted out of context.

The poor guys must have been so sick of that question - even at the Toronto film festival's press conference, back in the autumn of -05, that was the very first question asked.   ::)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 02:10:41 pm by Mikaela »

Offline serious crayons

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It is a projected uncomfortablness, I think.  The actors (not just in this film) are doing a job & choose to act a part or not.  The media, with their relentless implying that Heath and Jake should have been uncomfortable, made the issue uncomfortable.

Maybe, though it's hard to tell for sure. Jake and Heath grew up in the same culture their interviewers did, so they may not have been entirely free of some of same those prejudices. For all we know, they had to deal with the issue themselves. In any case, they obviously did an excellent of transcending it. And I would say that afterward, they showed a lot of grace under all that uncomfortable media pressure.

I used to work a bit as a journalist in a local paper some years back, and the custom there was to let persons read through lengthy "portrait" articles of this kind.

Most of the papers I worked for had pretty harsh rules against that -- too harsh, in some case, I thought. With regular private citizens, I could empathize with them and so sometimes let them see the profiles. With more public figures, like business people or government officials, I had less sympathy; I figured dealing with the media is part of their jobs. But celebrities hold so much power because the media is so celebrity hungry, so perhaps they make that a condition of interviews.

Offline Brown Eyes

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It is a projected uncomfortablness, I think.  The actors (not just in this film) are doing a job & choose to act a part or not.  The media, with their relentless implying that Heath and Jake should have been uncomfortable, made the issue uncomfortable.


I think this is more or less spot on.  I think the mainstream media had a lot to do with stressing the idea of being "uncomfortable" with certain aspects of BBM.  It's sort of pathetic really. 
 :-\

For what it's worth, I remember during a red carpet interview with Jake (it was actually for the Oscars...) whatever reporter it was brought up the same old stupid question about the kissing... and in a moment of loveliness Jake said he'd never be uncomfortable talking about those aspects of the movie or the content of the movie.  I do remember he said that he was sick to death of the questions though.  I think he also said something about the fact that by that time (Oscar time) he and Heath had some stock answers ready to go when these questions came up.  Although, his responses to these questions do seem to vary depending on his mood.  My guess though, is that in reality he's long, long over any issue of being uncomfortable with it.
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Offline ednbarby

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I'll take it a step further and say the media are pathetic.   :P

And LJ, your point about it being perfectly natural that a straight man and a straight woman filming a love scene might not be the least bit attracted to each other reminds me of a story.  When the imaginary love of my life Ralph Fiennes was on Inside the Actors Studio recently, a student asked him if it was in general difficult to film love scenes with all those people standing around watching.  He said *he* was reminded of a story.  (See what I mean?  ;))  The story was that David Niven once said that when he was about to film a love scene, he would say to his partner, "Forgive me if I get aroused.  And forgive me if I don't."

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Offline silkncense

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Love the story Barb & Ralph Fiennes (won a bet @ work that his name is pronounced Rafe Fines) was also a love of my life - kinda got pushed aside by Jake but these things happen.  ;)

And it is definitely pathetic, Amanda.  :-\
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Offline serious crayons

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My guess though, is that in reality he's long, long over any issue of being uncomfortable with it.

I agree. In fact, I bet he was pretty much over it by the time the press junkets even started. He and Heath probably had no idea they'd have to answer the question 16 million times, but they undoubtedly did anticipate some curiosity about that. And I think at that point the movie came out they were ready to deal with it. By Oscar time, though, the issue had gotten really, really old.

But I'll have to say, and I hope I don't sound homophobic or anything, but I don't think this is all a projection by the pathetic media. I think it's natural to see some curiosity about the fact that these guys crossed a line that our culture draws defining how straight men should behave (somewhat less so straight women). In a physical sense, kissing Heath should be far more pleasant (to say the least!!!) than standing in cold, piss-filled water. And let's also say that physically, it's the exact equivalent of Ian McKellen kissing poor Helen Mirren, or any two actors of any gender and orientation who don't happen to be attracted to each other. But psychologically -- for the media, the public and possibly even for Jake and Heath when they first set out to do the project -- I think those cultural mores inevitably make things more complicated.

No, it shouldn't be a big deal. Yes, the question sounds ridiculous when it's asked over and over in every interview. Yes, it would be nice if nobody ever thought twice about it, and if no taboo existed in the first place. But the fact is, it's something most people have never seen straight men do, especially with such convincing passion. So in that sense, I think it's good that Jake and Heath had an opportunity to answer the question, explain that it wasn't all that torturous, and maybe help people progress a step or two. I loved Heath's quote in Rolling Stone (paraphrasing): "It's not like I was kissing a donkey's ass. I was kissing a human being, with a soul." What a cool way to put it. And if the Rolling Stone writer hadn't asked the tired old question in the first place, let's face it, some readers would have just been left wondering, or worse.



Offline Brown Eyes

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Well, the number of time the dumb questions come up in zillions of interviews probably has something to do with the popularity of the film.  I think the magnitude of the movie's popularity in the mainstream world probably was a tiny bit unexpected... even by well-intentioned actors and others involved in making the movie. 

I grant it that there would be curiosity about the kissing from the media.  That seems fine... But, the tone of many (although certainly not all) of the questions seem to include that grain of meaning that leads to the idea that the interviewers are expecting their audience to be uncomfortable with the subject matter - or think it's way out of the realm of typical experience, etc.  In making this assumption about the general audience, I think a lot of these interviews do foster or help create the idea that this subject matter should be seen as uncomfortable.  It seems like a sad type of assumption to make about the audience in any case.  And, it's almost like they're trying to push the actors to admit to a level of uncomfortable-ness (whether they really feel it or not).  Or, in other words it's like some of the interviews seem to push the actors to re-affirm or explicitly articulate their own real-life sexuality in light of the "uncomfortable" content ot the movie.
 :-\
« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 08:03:20 pm by atz75 »
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Offline serious crayons

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the tone of many (although certainly not all) of the questions seem to include that grain of meaning that leads to the idea that the interviewers are expecting their audience to be uncomfortable with the subject matter - or think it's way out of the realm of typical experience, etc.

Well, I didn't see many of the interviews, period. I skimmed the ones with Heath in GQ and Rolling Stone (while standing in the store!), I saw the red-carpet interview with Jake ... that may be about it. So if there was an ugly tone to the others, admittedly I probably didn't get exposed to it.

But IMO, the media don't exist in a vaccuum. If anything, the average journalist is probably MORE progressive and liberal than the average member of his or her audience. It could be they're just asking what they think they're audience wants to know. Which is not to say they don't waaayyy too often cater to the lowest common denominator and exploit the worst aspects of celebrity culture.

But I don't think this attitude is something entirely media-manufactured. I think the fact is, many people in the audience actually DO assume that what Heath and Jake did is uncomfortable, or way out of the realm of typical experience. They shouldn't, obviously. But I think realistically, many people do. I just think that's where our culture is, at the moment.

Here's an example. When I first started talking to my 11-year-old son about how much I liked Brokeback, he immediately said, "Do those guys really kiss each other?!" in this kind of eeewwww tone. And I said yeah. And he said, "Are the actors straight?" Yeah. "Well, then how can they do that?!?" I said something nonchalant to the effect of, well, that's what actors do, it's not a big deal. That was about it, but I'm not sure it completely settled his mind (though to be honest, very few things I say settle his mind about anything).

The point is, he didn't get that attitude from me, and I don't even think he got it from my husband. He just absorbed it from the culture and his pre-teen dude friends. I would like to think that if the two actors were gay, he would not find it as shocking. But what surprised him was the fact that two straight actors were crossing that boundary (though to be honest he probably would not be as disturbed by the thought of Ian and Helen crossing it).

Of course, my son is only one person, and a kid at that. But he's a kid who, I like to think, comes from a fairly progressive background. So what does that say about most of America?

That's why, for me, asking the question over and over (assuming the tone isn't too leering and stupid, which sometimes it may well have been) is not entirely a bad thing. And for Heath and Jake to take the opportunity to answer it in a normal, calm, sensitive, helpful way -- as they appear, at least mostly, to have done -- could potentially do a lot of good. They're doing for the public what I tried to do for my son, but far more effectively. (Among my sons' favorite movies, BTW, are October Sky and Lords of Dogtown.)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2006, 03:43:02 am by latjoreme »

Offline ednbarby

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Love the story Barb & Ralph Fiennes (won a bet @ work that his name is pronounced Rafe Fines) was also a love of my life - kinda got pushed aside by Jake but these things happen.  ;)

Ah, my soul sister rides again.  Yep, Rafe is pretty much getting his ass kicked by Jakey these days.  But he's still a *very* close number two on my List.  *AND* I've actually met him.  So he does have that on him.

<--- has a thing for tall, elegant men with piercing eyes
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Offline silkncense

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Katherine & Amanda - you both have very good points. 

I think it was important for Heath & Jake to express, as Heath specifically did, that they were just kissing another human being.  It was especially welcome in that instance since it was in a wide audience publication such as Rolling Stone.  My problem with the media arose in that the question had been asked & answered quite enough. 

Good interviewers could easily have acknowledged that the issue had been addressed & asked a more relevant question, something more to the heart of the issues in the film.  Instead we have interviewers that show they had no real interest in this film (and/or assumed their audiences are all of the lowest common denominator as you suggest - just another example of dumbing down). 

It was the same to me as watching Leno & Letterman et al continue (& continue & continue) to have the same asinine jokes & sketches.  I personally was very bothered that this film was relegated to joke material & I believe it reinforced the belief in many that it was not a film to see. 

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Offline silkncense

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Barb -

I need details.  What exactly does "met" encompass??   :o  Feel free to embellish for the audience's pleasure!
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Offline serious crayons

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It was the same to me as watching Leno & Letterman et al continue (& continue & continue) to have the same asinine jokes & sketches.  I personally was very bothered that this film was relegated to joke material

That's for sure. I very rarely watch either Leno or Letterman. But I happened to see Leno in late April -- so four months after BBM came out -- and heard four BBM jokes. I immediately lost whatever minute shred of respect I had left for Jay Leno (I saw him onstage in the mid-'90s and thought he was hilarious, but my opinion of him has been plummeting for the past 10 years or so; IMO he's now a cliched, sellout, predictable hack).

So if that's the tone of the interviews you're talking about in which the kissing question came up, then I'm in total agreement that they're ridiculous and stupid. I was thinking of more serious profiles like the Rolling Stone and GQ ones. There, I think they pretty much had to ask about it, even if they knew the question had already been answered elsewhere.



Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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From:The New York Times

By MIREYA NAVARRO
Published: August 6, 2006
LOS ANGELES

If You Must Know, I’m Straight


Facing down rumors were, SpongeBob SquarePants, top, and Jake Gyllenhaal


Oprah Winfrey and Gayle King in 2003

TO issue “the denial” in 2006, do the following:

Step 1: State emphatically what it is you are not.

Step 2: Scoff at the rumor with good humor.

Step 3: Note, for the record, your true feelings about the rumor: not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Or, skip steps 1 through 3 and opt for evasion with the nondenial denial: “I don’t want to talk about my private life.”

We are talking, of course, about denying the Gay Rumor, that surreptitious creature that attacks scores of entertainment, political and athletic personalities and that most recently has prompted disclaimers from Oprah Winfrey, the “Superman Returns” star Brandon Routh and Michael Strahan, the New York Giants defensive end.

Ms. Winfrey, who has denied in the past that she is a lesbian, said in the August “friendship’’ issue of her magazine, O, that her close bond with her best friend of 30 years, Gayle King, defies definition, but added: “People think I’d be so ashamed of being gay that I wouldn’t admit it? Oh, please.”

In the case of Mr. Routh, the denial came during a July 2 interview on “Larry King Live,” when Mr. King asked whether Superman’s appeal among gays, the subject of an earlier article in the gay publication “The Advocate,” could lead people to assume the actor was gay.

“I’m very confident in who I am and my relationship with my lovely girlfriend,” Mr. Routh responded.

The list of suspected lesbians and gay men is ever growing: In addition to the perennial suspect Tom Cruise, actors like Jake Gyllenhaal and Marcia Cross of “Desperate Housewives” have had to assert their heterosexuality. Mr. Strahan’s run-in with it was brief, prompted by a comment his wife made during their tumultuous divorce proceeding but that she later retracted.

“For every one coming out, we have five denials,” said Michelangelo Signorile, the gay author and Sirius Satellite Radio talk show host famous for pioneering the outing of prominent people as homosexuals in the late 1980’s. As for how gay rumors begin in the first place, they can be triggered by just about anything — a certain look, too many gay friends, being older and still romantically unattached. And more public figures are being put on the spot about their sexual orientation, something that was once considered in bad taste.

“The media is more willing to ask the question, because being gay has become a more publicly acknowledged fact of life,” said Larry Gross, director of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California and author of “Up From Invisibility: Lesbians, Gay Men and the Media in America” (2001, Columbia University Press).

But while that may speak well of the achievements of the gay rights movement, some sociologists and gay advocates say that all the fuss over the Denial is one more indication of the stigma still attached to being gay.

“At least there’s no longer the presumption that everyone is straight,” said Laura Grindstaff, an associate professor of sociology at the University of California, Davis, who teaches on gender and sexuality. “But this intense interest in knowing, and the need to deny, are problematic. Why does the difference matter? Because there are all these consequences.”

With blogs and celebrity magazines always at the ready to dissect every rumor and its corresponding response, how to handle the denial is tricky terrain for those who feel one is in order. Protest too much and it may seem too defensive, and therefore suspect. Ignore it and the rumors can take on a life of their own.

Gay media watchers regard Mr. Gyllenhaal, who fielded questions about his sexual orientation after his starring role as a gay cowboy in “Brokeback Mountain,” as a model for the right approach.

“I can honestly say I’ve never been attracted to a man sexually,” he said, “but I don’t think I’d be afraid of it if it happened.”


Contrast that balanced response to sharp-tongued quotes attributed to Mel Gibson. After his drunken-driving arrest and anti-Semitic outburst in Malibu last week, entertainment journalists dredged up other controversial remarks of his, including the following quote from a 1992 interview with the Spanish newspaper “El Pais.”

“Do I sound like a homosexual? Do I talk like them? Do I move like them? I think not.”

Wrong approach, said Neil G. Giuliano, president of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, or Glaad. “Building ourselves up by putting another class of people down is never a good thing.”

Mr. Gross, of the Annenberg School, said that filing a lawsuit or taking full-page ads to disavow gayness was not uncommon in Hollywood at one time, but today that would smack of overkill and send the wrong message.

“A lawsuit says, ‘This is a terrible thing you’re saying,’ ” he said. “Now it becomes a balancing act for people.”

The New York publicist Ken Sunshine said that among his celebrity clients, being an attractive 20-something man is almost a guarantee that gaydars will go off.

“It comes up all the time,” Mr. Sunshine said. “The gay rumors are based on nothing and then they have to make the decision to comment on their sexuality.”

Mr. Sunshine said his media strategy varies depending on the circumstances and the wishes of his clients, most of whom he said choose not to comment.

“Sometimes I yell and scream, sometimes we threaten to sue, sometimes we try to charm,” Mr. Sunshine said of how he deals with prodding from the news media. “It’s very difficult to combat with the celebrity obsession that we’re going through.”

Even a cartoon sea sponge became a target last year when a conservative Christian leader deemed a children’s video starring SpongeBob SquarePants pro-homosexual. Dan Martinsen, a spokesman for Nickelodeon, said the characterization was so absurd the company did not have a media strategy other than to state the obvious.

“He’s a sponge, for crying out loud,” Mr. Martinsen said.

But dispelling gay rumors is harder for humans, as Dr. Daniel Mongiardo found out. Barely two weeks before the 2004 election, Dr. Mongiardo, 46, a Kentucky Democratic state senator who was running for a seat in the United States Senate, said the Republican camp went after him by insinuating that he might be gay.

“They said things like ‘he’s limp-wristed’ and there’s no ‘man’ in ‘gentleman’ when it comes to him,” said Dr. Mongiardo, a co-sponsor of Kentucky’s amendment banning gay marriage who is single. Dr. Mongiardo, an ear, nose and throat specialist who said he has been in a fairly serious relationship with a woman for over a year, uttered the ubiquitous “I’m not gay” denial but he said there was no way to deflect the damage. He narrowly lost to the incumbent, Senator Jim Bunning, and blames the gay label. “It cost me and my party a seat in the Senate, ” Dr. Mongiardo said. But if rumors are used as a weapon, they can also be the product of wishful thinking.

“Gay people propagate these rumors, too, because they’re looking for affirmation in the public arena by identifying positive cultural icons as part of their own community,” said Verta Taylor, the chairwoman of the sociology department at the University of California, Santa Barbara, who is a lesbian and writes about gender and sexuality.

Outside the entertainment industry, lawsuits by heterosexual plaintiffs alleging discriminatory treatment or sexual harassment because they were mistakenly perceived to be gay are becoming increasingly common, and in some cases victorious, lawyers say. In some cases those affirming their heterosexuality are being represented by gay organizations like Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund.

“It’s just as bad either way,” Jon Davidson, Lambda’s legal director, said of the discriminatory treatment of people assumed to be gay, whether gay or straight.

Not everyone reaches for the Denial. In some cases, there’s the Declaration. Lance Bass, a member of the 1990’s boy band ’N Sync, came out publicly in an article in the Aug. 7 issue of People magazine, which splashed his picture on the cover with the headline, “I’m Gay.” Mr. Bass, 27, said that while the people closest to him knew he was gay, he had kept his sexual orientation out of the public domain because, “I knew I was in this popular band and I had four other guys’ careers in my hand.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/06/fashion/06gay.html?ref=fashion&pagewanted=all
« Last Edit: August 06, 2006, 09:41:25 pm by jmmgallagher »
"Tu doives entendre je t'aime."
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Offline silkncense

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Quote
Even a cartoon sea sponge became a target last year when a conservative Christian leader deemed a children’s video starring SpongeBob SquarePants pro-homosexual

Dear God in heaven - What the hell???

Quote
“He’s a sponge, for crying out loud,” Mr. Martinsen said.


And once again Jake shines.  What a beautiful 'human being' (as Heath so pointedly stated).


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Offline delalluvia

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“He’s a sponge, for crying out loud,” Mr. Martinsen said.


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Ah me. The New York Times is not was it once was, at all, at all. Sigh. (SpongeBob SquarePants indeed.)

But then, we come to--uh--Mel:

Contrast that balanced response (from Jake Gyllenhaal) to sharp-tongued quotes attributed to Mel Gibson. After his drunken-driving arrest and anti-Semitic outburst in Malibu last week, entertainment journalists dredged up other controversial remarks of his, including the following quote from a 1992 interview with the Spanish newspaper “El Pais.”

“Do I sound like a homosexual? Do I talk like them? Do I move like them? I think not.”

We'll let that by, shall we?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2006, 11:38:56 pm by jmmgallagher »
"Tu doives entendre je t'aime."
(and you know who I am...)


Cowboy Curtis (Laurence Fishburne)
and Pee-wee in the 1990 episode
"Camping Out"

Offline twistedude

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Since Gibson's ascting is only one rung above Kenasu Reeves, I'd think the gay guys would be HAPPY to let it....slide...
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Offline ednbarby

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Barb -

I need details.  What exactly does "met" encompass??   :o  Feel free to embellish for the audience's pleasure!

What?  Me?  Embellish?  Never.

Ralph was in "Coriolanus" and "Richard II" at the Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM) in 2000.  I flew up there with my friend Jacki and saw him in both - we went to the matinee of "Coriolanus" on Saturday and the matinee of "Richard II" on Sunday.  I didn't go with the intention of trying to meet him at the stage door afterwards - in fact, I had no intention of it at all.  But Jacki not so gently persuaded me.  And so against my better judgment (thank goodness I didn't listen to it), right after the play on Saturday (which was *amazing*, needless to say - directed by Jonathan Kent who had also directed his "Hamlet") we both walked outside to the stage door and found a small gaggle of pretty much all women waiting with Sharpies and books/DVDs in hand.  After a few minutes, a very large bodyguard type came out and said "Mr. Fiennes will be meeting with fans in the lobby - there's too much of a commotion with loading the set for tonight (which was true) back here."  So Jacki and I hightailed it to the lobby without a second thought.  I didn't realize until we got there that pretty much none of the other women had followed us - apparently they thought the bodyguard was just saying that so Ralph could escape free and clear.  I remember one even saying as we turned to walk back "Is he really, or are you just saying that so he can make a clean getaway?" and the guard saying, "No.  Of course not.  Mr. Fiennes is very good to his fans."  I *love* that - "Mr. Fiennes."

So there we were back in the lobby, and there was NO ONE else with us but one other girl not with the rest of the group who trusted the nice, big man too, and she was a ways behind.  We walked in, there was no one there, and just when we were wondering where exactly we should stand and starting to feel rather awkward, from out of the shadows, he walked like a dream.  Looking very freshly-scrubbed, with hair still wet from the shower, slicked back, and in comfortable but crisp looking street clothes.  He lasered me with those eyes and I felt like I was in a tractor beam being pulled to him.  I don't know what else possessed me.  I just strode very confidently up to him like he was a long lost friend.  I had this whole mini-speech prepared, about how he had brought Shakespeare's words to life for me in a way that no one else ever had.  But when I got to him, I was suddenly starstruck and could barely utter a word.  I had the playbook and pen in hand, and all I could muster was "Thank you for bringing these plays over to us."  He all but whispered, "You're quite welcome."  I handed him my book and pen.  He was trying to will me to look at him, but I couldn't.  I'd taken one glance at those eyes, which were as clear and *green* (in that light) as peridots and was afraid I'd turn into a pillar of salt if I looked at them again.  While all this transpired, Jacki stood back and snapped a couple of photos.  I remember worrying that he'd be annoyed by that, but it didn't remotely faze him.  In fact, after I backed away so that the nimrods who had now finally figured out they should return to the lobby like the guy said could have their chance, I was amazed to see him actually posing for photos with them, shaking the hand of one who gushed, "May I hold your hand?" (I kid you not) and hugging another one who was even bolder still and asked for one of those.  He was so gracious the whole time.  And so quiet and deliberate in his movements, I'm sure conserving every ounce of energy for the second play he had to do again a few hours later ("Coriolanus" is three hours long, and he's onstage in almost every scene.)  The air around him was rarified.  I've never believed in seeing auras, but there actually was one around him.  He was almost angelic.

See for yourselves.  Wouldn't you agree?



 ;D
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 09:28:37 am by ednbarby »
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Offline ednbarby

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Well, the number of time the dumb questions come up in zillions of interviews probably has something to do with the popularity of the film.  I think the magnitude of the movie's popularity in the mainstream world probably was a tiny bit unexpected... even by well-intentioned actors and others involved in making the movie. 

I grant it that there would be curiosity about the kissing from the media.  That seems fine... But, the tone of many (although certainly not all) of the questions seem to include that grain of meaning that leads to the idea that the interviewers are expecting their audience to be uncomfortable with the subject matter - or think it's way out of the realm of typical experience, etc.  In making this assumption about the general audience, I think a lot of these interviews do foster or help create the idea that this subject matter should be seen as uncomfortable.  It seems like a sad type of assumption to make about the audience in any case.  And, it's almost like they're trying to push the actors to admit to a level of uncomfortable-ness (whether they really feel it or not).  Or, in other words it's like some of the interviews seem to push the actors to re-affirm or explicitly articulate their own real-life sexuality in light of the "uncomfortable" content ot the movie.
 :-\

I agree.  Even Jake said to Oprah with more than a hint of irony when she kept pushing it, "What're ya gettin' at?"  (LOVED that, needless to say.)

In my view, a lot of these people clearly had an agenda in asking the question.  And it wasn't one of honest curiosity.  At best, if it can be called that, it was out of self-preservation - out of being uncomfortable themselves with the subject matter and wanting to let their audiences know it lest they be perceived as - gasp! - gay-friendly or "worse" - gay.  And at worst, it was to deliberately put the actors in an awkward position so as to make for "good TV."  Shame on pretty much all of them.
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Offline Mikaela

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Quote
But, the tone of many (although certainly not all) of the questions seem to include that grain of meaning that leads to the idea that the interviewers are expecting their audience to be uncomfortable with the subject matter - or think it's way out of the realm of typical experience, etc.  In making this assumption about the general audience, I think a lot of these interviews do foster or help create the idea that this subject matter should be seen as uncomfortable.

I have the same view - as mentioned in a previous post around here somewhere.

BUT, then there's a thought that struck me. It may be way off.... Probably is.

What if many of the media people really were fascinated by the kissing scenes, thought them pretty hot,  and because of that as well as such scenes' general rarity in mainstream movies would like to talk about them? But then they *assume* their audience would surely be uncomfortable with the kissing scenes, so dare not approach it in any other way than through that negative angle, projecting onto their audience and the actors alike the assumption of discomfort. While the audience watches the media stuff and gets annoyed with all the "were you uncomfortable/frightened" questions, - since they themselves found the kisses more fascinating than anything and don't want to approach them as uncomfortable, though they absolutely don't mind hearing more about the love scenes.....

I suppose this comes from the thought that it can't be just me who've watched the two tent scenes and the reunion more times than many other parts of the film - and certainly *not* because I'm uncomfortable with those scenes!  ;)

Perhaps a lot of media people and their readers / viewers are assuming that everyone else are uncomfortable,  while in reality the uncomfortable ones are in the minority? (At least among those who've been "comfortable" enough to go see the film in the first place.... ) Perhaps discomfort at same-sex kisses is a self-perpetuating myth as much as anything?

Have anyone ever seen an interview with either of the leads where the obligatory kissing question was asked along the lines of "Wow!  You were amazing! How did you ever manage to convey so much smoking hot blazing-off-the-charts passion"?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 10:15:16 am by Mikaela »

Offline nakymaton

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Have anyone ever seen an interview with either of the leads where the obligatory kissing question was asked along the lines of "Wow!  You were amazing! How did you ever manage to convey so much smoking hot blazing-off-the-charts passion"?

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think you've just hit on the reason why I kept reading all those interviews, even when they were really, really lame...
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Offline silkncense

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Sorry for the aside, but I'm having a moment here filling in Barb's story -

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from out of the shadows, he walked like a dream.  Looking very freshly-scrubbed, with hair still wet from the shower, slicked back, and in comfortable but crisp looking street clothes.  He lasered me with those eyes

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He all but whispered,
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trying to will me to look at him, but I couldn't.  I'd taken one glance at those eyes, which were as clear and *green* (in that light) as peridots and was afraid I'd

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I backed away
   
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"May I hold your hand?"
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so quiet and deliberate in his movements,



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to do again a few hours later
"……when I think of him, I just can't keep from crying…because he was a friend of mine…"

Offline ednbarby

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Do ya think I have a future in drugstore romance novels, Silk?  ;)
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Offline welliwont

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See for yourselves.  Wouldn't you agree?

 ;D

Hey great memory-sharing there Barb, I am so happy for you, and I don't even know who this guy is!  :)

J
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Offline silkncense

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Have anyone ever seen an interview with either of the leads where the obligatory kissing question was asked along the lines of "Wow!  You were amazing! How did you ever manage to convey so much smoking hot blazing-off-the-charts passion"?

Now that would have made for an interesting interview instead of the same ol' tired BS question that was continually thrown-up. 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 11:03:26 am by silkncense »
"……when I think of him, I just can't keep from crying…because he was a friend of mine…"

Offline silkncense

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Hey Barb -

You got a start going there, but I'm thinking the parts I filled in would make for some mighty fine reading too!!!   :P
"……when I think of him, I just can't keep from crying…because he was a friend of mine…"

Offline ednbarby

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Hey Barb -

You got a start going there, but I'm thinking the parts I filled in would make for some mighty fine reading too!!!   :P

Another Playgirl fan!  ;)
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Offline ednbarby

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Now that would have made for an interesting interview instead of the same ol' tired BS question that was continually thrown-up.

Egg-zactly.  Though I must say I'd find that even kind of an inane question.  There are two schools of thought on where such smokin' hot chemistry comes from.  Mine always used to be that you can't act it - it's either there or it isn't.  But since I've read that Jake said he didn't feel an attraction for some of his counterparts that you'd have thought he would have and did for others, and since every FREAKIN' time I watch him kiss another person onscreen I find it hot as Hades, I can only conclude that maybe you can.  (And it's not just because I have a mind-numbing crush on him - I have a mind-numbing crush on my Rafe-ie-kins, too, and there have been times I've felt nada when watching him kiss someone I could clearly see he wasn't really jonesin' for.)

My point - and I do have one! - is that either it's just there to begin with and is undeniable, or they're both amazingly talented actors, or, in this case, both.  There is no other answer, so why ask the question if not to satisfy some other agenda?
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Offline ednbarby

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Hey great memory-sharing there Barb, I am so happy for you, and I don't even know who this guy is!  :)

I take it you haven't seen "The English Patient?"  That's the one that pretty much sealed the deal for me.  My condolenses.  Allow me to rectify that forthwith:








OK, all.  Sorry for the asides.  Carry on.   :-*

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Offline silkncense

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English Patient! 

One of my favorite films (have to admit that Naveen Andrews when he is washing his hair is also "way hot!")  Yes.

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Have anyone ever seen an interview with either of the leads where the obligatory kissing question was asked along the lines of "Wow!  You were amazing! How did you ever manage to convey so much smoking hot blazing-off-the-charts passion"?

I also think this question (perhaps a little more subtley expressed) would serve to satisfy readers interest while validating the acting quality of the film.  And, would hopefully lead to a discussion about the actual storyline...

« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 12:02:37 pm by silkncense »
"……when I think of him, I just can't keep from crying…because he was a friend of mine…"