A line from the SS thst intrigues me

[retropian]

"They came together on paper...."

If there was a previous discussion on this line, I missed it. For some reason it's been on my mind lately. What does AP mean and intend with that. I have two thoughts, neither mutually exclusive.

First, is AP engaging a playful postmodern tease with the reader. I. E. they are characters that exist only on the page the reader is reading. The author is the God/Creator of the characters and the universe they inhabit, and we the readers then participate in that creation via the acts of reading an imagining. The God/creator's creation doesn't truly exist until there is a separate consciousness to participate in the creation. There is no existence until it is acknowledged by a consciousness other than the Creators.

Or, second, is this another reference to Genesis. As Adam and Eve exist only on paper in a mythological story, so to do Jack and Ennis.

Is it both? Neither?

I'm just thinking out loud, or rather thinking/typing.

[Fran]

I went with a simpler explanation:  Jack and Ennis' names were written one after the other in Joe Aguirre's employment records. 

Thanks for giving me something to think about. 

[LauraGigs]

I'd always thought it was a subtle marriage metaphor.  Coupled with the other details of the opening in Aguirre's office... they're standing together before a judge/authority figure, who sends them off to be alone together.

[mariez]

I'd always thought it was a subtle marriage metaphor.  Coupled with the other details of the opening in Aguirre's office... they're standing together before a judge/authority figure, who sends them off to be alone together.

That's how I've always thought of it, too.  Aguirre even sends them off on animals that are "ring-lashed with double diamonds."

[optom3]

I read the S.S first and after the prologue, I remember thinking that, they came together on paper was an indication that they would come together in other ways also.
I love the marriage idea and I think it fits in well on one level, the only problem I have is that it seems the only way they never really came together,  on a permanant basis. They came together as friends, lovers, partners of the soul and heart. Ironically the only record of them being permanently together, is in that shack where Aguirre gave them their instructions.
I do know that when I reached the end of the story, I was sobbing and that line came back to haunt me. They spent a lifetime never doing what Jack so badly desired. Sure they had their illicit fishing trips, but that was it.
The only time I think of them as being forever joined is when we read of, or see the 2 shirts. This is a story and film that still hurts me on almost every level, after all this time. I do not think I will ever be this affected by a story or film ever again.

[Mikaela]

That's how I've always thought of it, too.  Aguirre even sends them off on animals that are "ring-lashed with double diamonds."

Wow. I never thought of that. Seems there's always something more to discover in the OS!! Thanks for pointing it out.

[retropian]

I'd always thought it was a subtle marriage metaphor.  Coupled with the other details of the opening in Aguirre's office... they're standing together before a judge/authority figure, who sends them off to be alone together.

That's how I've always thought of it, too.  Aguirre even sends them off on animals that are "ring-lashed with double diamonds."

I love this idea! Great food for thought. I love how the differing ideas and interpretations of BBM complement each other. The thought that their coming together on paper is a metaphor for marriage is just great. It adds another dimension to the much discussed Genesis motif where Aguirre is a stand in for God who brings together Adam and Eve (J&E) and plants them in Eden (BBM). That he is marrying them to each other is just lovely.

My original thought was suggested by Tom Stoppard's play "Rosencranz and Guildenstern are Dead", in which the characters realize the reality they inhabit is being created moment to moment as Shakespeare writes Hamlet. It puts me in mind of a line later in the story when Ennis has that vague feeling of dissatisfaction. He is dissatisfied with how the story is going and how his life in the story is turning out.

[Front-Ranger]

That's how I've always thought of it, too.  Aguirre even sends them off on animals that are "ring-lashed with double diamonds."

and don't forget the "half-hitches" and the "bandy-legged Basque." All in the same sentence. What a genius is AP!!

[mariez]

and don't forget the "half-hitches" and the "bandy-legged Basque." All in the same sentence. What a genius is AP!!

Oh, excellent!  Always something new to learn after all this time!  Thanks!

[Monika]

what a great thread. I had never reflected on that line before so thanks for bringing it to my attention. No matter how many times I´ve read that story, there is still someting I´ve managed to miss. Love it!

[Monika]

A bit OT, but this reminded me of a line that I did notice and wonder about the first time I read the novel.
I didn't understand what the line "who hadn't rolled his own" (I'm reciting from memory, but I believe it is how it goes) actually meant, so I decided to ask, I believe it was Pete, during the Wyoming trip last year. I think it was on the first day we met...
When he started to explain, I wished the earth would just disappear under my feet and swallow me...

[Kerry]

I love this idea! Great food for thought. I love how the differing ideas and interpretations of BBM complement each other. The thought that their coming together on paper is a metaphor for marriage is just great. It adds another dimension to the much discussed Genesis motif where Aguirre is a stand in for God who brings together Adam and Eve (J&E) and plants them in Eden (BBM). That he is marrying them to each other is just lovely.

Up until this very moment I always thought it meant that J&E came together on paper as members of Aguire's staff list, for pay purposes. But now that I've read this thread, I'm not so sure any more. I much prefer the above interpretation now. Such wonderful food for thought. Excellent thread.

[Katie77]

A bit OT, but this reminded me of a line that I did notice and wonder about the first time I read the novel.
I didn't understand what the line "who hadn't rolled his own" (I'm reciting from memory, but I believe it is how it goes) actually meant, so I decided to ask, I believe it was Pete, during the Wyoming trip last year. I think it was on the first day we met...
When he started to explain, I wished the earth would just disappear under my feet and swallow me...

OK OK.....what does it mean?

[Monika]

OK OK.....what does it mean?

roll his own = masturbate
And Jack didn´t have to. (because he had other who helped him out, so to speak)

[Kerry]

roll his own = masturbate
And Jack didn´t have to. (because he had other who helped him out, so to speak)

Yep, that's how I understand it. Jack was sleeping around, while Ennis was amusing himself, fantasizing about Jack.

Ennis remained true to Jack (with men). Alas, Jack did not return the compliment.

[Katie77]

Well, there you go......never heard it called that before.

Haven't got a clue what I thought it meant in the story.....maybe I was thinking of cigarettes.

[Front-Ranger]

I hadn't heard that expresson either, and wondered if maybe Annie made it up, like she did "stemming the rose." (or so the wisdom goes)

[Clyde-B]

I always thought the "they came together" had subtle sexual implications as well.

One of the things I like about the way Proulx uses language is that her word choices often yield more than one interpretation, but regardless of how you choose to read a line, it still fits.  Each of the interpretations adds a different, but still appropriate, dimension to the meaning. 

The double entendre of "they came together" gives it a gritty, crude tone and at the same time foreshadows how their relationship is going to progress. 

"They came together on paper" conveys the notion of marriage as well, and it does all that at the same time "they came together on paper as herder and camp tender..." conveys the literal meaning of the sentence while introducing a hint of irony that this is not the way things are going to be.  It's the unusual choice of wording and the order in which the sentence unfolds that allows these multiple meanings.

I think this multiplicity of appropriate meanings is what makes the story feel so rich.

[Front-Ranger]

I agree with what all of you are saying about the phrase "they came together." Also keep in mind that AP is describing where Jack and Ennis came from, specifically from the southwestern corner of the state (in Ennis's case) and the northeastern corner of the state (in Jack's case). They came together in the Bighorn Mountains, which is roughly in the middle between the two hometowns.

[Front-Ranger]

Here's another reference to Tom Stoppard made by retropian that shows how his work is very Brokish.

...I love how the differing ideas and interpretations of BBM complement each other. The thought that their coming together on paper is a metaphor for marriage is just great. It adds another dimension to the much discussed Genesis motif where Aguirre is a stand in for God who brings together Adam and Eve (J&E) and plants them in Eden (BBM). That he is marrying them to each other is just lovely.

My original thought was suggested by Tom Stoppard's play "Rosencranz and Guildenstern are Dead", in which the characters realize the reality they inhabit is being created moment to moment as Shakespeare writes Hamlet. It puts me in mind of a line later in the story when Ennis has that vague feeling of dissatisfaction. He is dissatisfied with how the story is going and how his life in the story is turning out.