Author Topic: The post-divorce scene observations  (Read 7852 times)

Offline ednbarby

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The post-divorce scene observations
« on: August 06, 2006, 10:20:32 am »
At the request of a very dear friend, I am hereby starting a thread on this topic that I just hinted at over at Jake Jake Jake! but that really doesn't belong there.

This picture was posted:



and a discussion about the wardrobe choices there led me to say that I liked how it seemed as if Jack had picked out all his spiffiest, shiniest things to don to go claim his prize - the trophy belt buckle, the laced leather jacket (I don't care what you say, Pipedream - I think it's *hot* ;)), a crisp new hat, a shirt in his very best color...  When I went back to look at the picture again (how can ya help it?), I noticed that that shirt is not completely solid - there is a faint pattern on it in the same shade of brown as the jacket and hat.  And this, I think, is only one of two times that Jack ever wears a patterned shirt, the other being when he goes back to Aguirre's trailer to look for Ennis the next summer after Brokeback.  Similarly, his clothes are layered, though not quite as much - for protection.  So he was going to claim his prize but felt vulnerable about it from the beginning.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2006, 10:26:30 am by ednbarby »
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2006, 10:24:36 am »
Ooh - and something else I just noticed.  Look how he's fingering that wedding band.  Wow.  Could these guys have gotten any more subtle?

Where's that number for the f***ing Academy?   >:(

Sorry.  I digress.  Anyway, there he is ready to give it all up for Ennis, but when Ennis starts to pull away (I wonder where exactly in the scene he's doing this - right after Ennis stops to fret about the truck in the distance?  Or right after he says his bit about "I don't know what to say...  I got the girls this weekend.  I missed last month..."), his subconscious reaction is to worry the thing that is the symbol of the lie Ennis is forcing them to live.

God, I love this movie.
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Offline tamarack

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2006, 10:37:07 am »
...a crisp new hat in Ennis's color, no less.

I've been so busy watching Ennis in this scene that I have barely noticed any of these things before. You guys are amazing! I wonder how many times you have to watch and how many times you have to discuss it before this movie stops being new anymore?!

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2006, 10:43:11 am »
I was so excited to see his shirt because I own one almost exactly like it, and it's from the Rockmount Western Wear store in Denver that supplied the famous shirts for the movie. Mine is a dark blue and you can't really tell if it's blue or black until you're up close. The stripe is what's called a "chalk stripe" in white, very subtle. This is a cowboy dress shirt. Definitely you are right on in saying Jack's dressing up almost like for a weddin. My shirt has white pearl snaps, square and set diagonally, which are called diamond snaps. Interesting yoke treratment and triangular pocket stitching. The diagonal shape is like a mountain and these shapes are attractive to a person on a quest. The lacing reminds us of the time when Jack said, "Let's git less you want to sit around tying knots all day." As we know, Jack came up there so they could git together, but Ennis wanted to tie knots still.  :'(
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Offline fernly

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2006, 11:30:19 am »
I was wondering about the wedding band. Why wouldn't Jack have removed it, if not in Childress, at least on the drive north?
Having it still on his hand, though, gives that visual of one kind of knot-tying that he thought Ennis was done with, only to find out he's not done with any of them knots.
Though Ennis does introduce Jack to his daughters at least...
« Last Edit: August 06, 2006, 12:41:15 pm by fernly »
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2006, 11:53:37 am »
At the request of a very dear friend, I am hereby starting a thread on this topic that I just hinted at over at Jake Jake Jake! but that really doesn't belong there.

This picture was posted:



   And this, I think, is only one of two times that Jack ever wears a patterned shirt, the other being when he goes back to Aguirre's trailer to look for Ennis the next summer after Brokeback.  Similarly, his clothes are layered, though not quite as much - for protection.  So he was going to claim his prize but felt vulnerable about it from the beginning.

Thoughts?
Jack also wears a plaid shirt on the first campout "it could be like this..."under his jacket, similar to ennis's other shirt at Brokeback.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2006, 03:02:58 pm »
Wow!  Great thread!  I have little to add, but I definitely agree that Jack got all dressed up for the post divorce visit.  I've always noticed that the jacket is special and everything he's wearing appears crisp and fresh.  Oh, poor Jack.
 :'(
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Offline opinionista

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2006, 03:19:15 pm »
I'm not sure if Jack thought about dressing up to meet Ennis. I think Jake's wardrobe in this scene means to show what Jack was willing to give up. He was definitely getting used to a life where he had everything he wanted, yet he would just throw all that away, and go back to being poor as long as he was with Ennis. I know he had plans to open a ranch, but not all ranches make money. Also, it will probably be a few years before they actually begin profiting from a ranch, if they ever bought one.

If you really look at this scene, there's a strong contrast in it. Jack driving rather fast into the driveway, pulling off at once, happy and joyful, willing to start a new life right there. And as the rich man he is, he's wearing expensive clothes, a nice texan jacket, a good hat and is driving a new truck. However, all you see around him is an old house, a beat up truck, and a man dressed in old clothes. I think that's what the fancy clothes means: Jack's will to give it all up for Ennis.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2006, 04:10:14 pm by opinionista »
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2006, 03:27:20 pm »
I'm not sure if Jack thought about dressing up to meet Ennis. I think Jake's wardrobe in this scene means to show what Jack was willing to give up. He was definitely getting used to a life where he had everything he wanted, yet he would just throw all that away, and go back to being poor as long as he was with Ennis. I know he had plans to open a ranch, but not all ranches make money. Also, it will probably be a few years before they actually begin profiting from a ranch, if they ever bought one.
Good point!!!
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2006, 08:17:32 pm »
Sorry, don't mean to sound grumpy, but since this is a serious discussion of wardrobe and its relation to what's going on in the scene, I'll ask: Is that jacket leather? It doesn't look like leather to me. Looks like a little leather reinforcement at the edge of the pocket (visible under Jack's left arm), but I don't know about the jacket.
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Offline David

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2006, 08:32:22 pm »
I agree that Jack wasn't dressed up any more than he usually is.   Ang Lee is really trying to show us the economic differences between the two characters.

True, Jack could have dressed down to vist Ennis as not to flaunt his wealth.   Better yet, just to blend in more when they are together.   But even during their time together you see Jack in New Jeans and nice new coats, hats etc.   Ennis always in his ultra faded jeans, old coat and well worn Hat that seems to get more limp over time.

But this scene does show that Jack, even 8 years after the reunion, is still hoping they can be together!   "I got the card about your divorce, so I figured that meant........" and he gives Ennis that puppy dog hopeful look.     

Sigh...  Poor Jack.  Ready to give up his life in Texas for the man he loves.     :'(

Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2006, 09:12:01 pm »
"Let's git less you want to sit around tying knots all day."

Oh my, oh my, I never really got that before--

Poor Ennis, poor Jack. I could cry all over again.
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Offline ranchgal

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2006, 09:45:45 pm »
Coat looks like canvas to me. 
It is a taylored dress canvas, not just a duck barn jacket, but looking at the grain in the fabric, it looks canvas.

I don't think there was much strange about his still wearing his wedding ring or fingering it, he was nervous.  And he was still very much married.  Lureen didn't have a clue as to what he was thinking/doing and neither did Ennis.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2006, 09:51:03 pm »


I don't think there was much strange about his still wearing his wedding ring or fingering it, he was nervous.  And he was still very much married.  Lureen didn't have a clue as to what he was thinking/doing and neither did Ennis.
I think Jack pretty much dropped everything and left for Wyoming when he got the card, without thinking it through.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2006, 11:01:14 pm »
Opinionista, I like your point that Jack's wardrobe, etc. is meant to show what he's willing to give up!  Good one.  And about Jack dropping everything and redlining it to Wyoming as soon as he got Ennis's postcard about the divorce... I've always felt that Ennis is damn lucky here that Jack didn't arrive saying that he'd just filed for divorce too.  I think Jack really was super confident about Ennis's intentions here.  I'm sure his hopefulness sort of blinded him to reality and to what he knew about Ennis.  Poor Jack. 

I find this scene nearly impossible to watch.  It's only gotten worse after all these months of BetterMost discussion.
 :'(
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2006, 09:05:21 am »
I find this scene nearly impossible to watch.  It's only gotten worse after all these months of BetterMost discussion.
 :'(

Same here.  When I watched it with my newbie friends a couple weeks ago, I actually averted my eyes (and watched their reaction, instead).  It hurts to watch and listen to Jack.  That tentative way he gets to talking as soon as he feels Ennis pulling away, which is almost immediate, of course - right after the "So... here I am!"  (Eerily echoing Aguirre's same comment after watching them through the binoculars.)

That's a good point you made, Natali - the contrast in their clothes and vehicles does show all that Jack was willing to give up.  Adding yet another dimension to how monumentally sad this scene is.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2006, 09:18:51 am »
I think Jack pretty much dropped everything and left for Wyoming when he got the card, without thinking it through.

I think so, too, Mark. I also get that impression from the Annie Proulx story, maybe even more so from the story, since in the story that was the only time Ennis ever telephoned Jack until the postcard came back stamped "deceased."
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 01:27:07 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2006, 11:19:34 am »
I think so, too, Mark. I also get that impression from the Annie Proulx story, maybe even more so from the story, since in the story that was the only time Ennis every telephoned Jack until the postcard came back stamped "deceased."
I think that Ennis wrote (or called) Jack was he did really have anyone else to talk to and and he knew he could always go  to Jackl.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 01:37:24 pm by jpwagoneer1964 »
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline silkncense

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2006, 12:19:04 pm »
Quote
"So... here I am!"

This is heartwrenching...such hope but it is actually the beginning of the end.   :'(
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2006, 01:28:57 pm »
I think that Ennis wrote (or called) Jack was he did really have anyone else to talk to and and he knew he could always go  to Jacl.

Absolutely. What could be more natural than to let your best and closest friend know, "Well, the divorce is final," or something like that?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline welliwont

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2006, 03:06:04 pm »
This scene is is soooo sad, poor Jack,  :'( :'( :'(

so sure that loving Ennis and being with his one true love is worth any sacrifice, no hesitation....  I don't know how Jack survived this disappointment (disappointment doesn't even begin to describe).  damn you Ennis!

Someone asked Jake in an interview (going by memory here,  ::)) :  "How did Jack die?"  or something similar, and Jake answered (I am paraphrasing):  "Jack starts to die the moment he realizes that he will never have the sweet life with Ennis".  I think this is the moment, and I don't know how Jack ever had the strength to keep going back to Ennis for another eight years.

 :'(

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Offline ednbarby

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2006, 03:11:10 pm »
This scene is is soooo sad, poor Jack,  :'( :'( :'(

so sure that loving Ennis and being with his one true love is worth any sacrifice, no hesitation....  I don't know how Jack survived this disappointment (disappointment doesn't even begin to describe).  damn you Ennis!

Someone asked Jake in an interview (going by memory here,  ::)) :  "How did Jack die?"  or something similar, and Jake answered (I am paraphrasing):  "Jack starts to die the moment he realizes that he will never have the sweet life with Ennis".  I think this is the moment, and I don't know how Jack ever had the strength to keep going back to Ennis for another eight years.

 :'(

Actually, I think this was asked of Jake at the Aero screening back in February, right Elle/RouxB/Kirk/Thierrypie/any other lucky bastard I'm forgetting?  I agree - this is the beginning of the end for Jack.  And the fact that he survived this setback (using another inadequate word here) is just a testament, I think, to the depth of the fire of his existence.  A lesser mortal surely wouldn't have lasted.
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2006, 03:12:14 pm »
This scene is is soooo sad, poor Jack,  :'( :'( :'(

so sure that loving Ennis and being with his one true love is worth any sacrifice, no hesitation....  I don't know how Jack survived this disappointment (disappointment doesn't even begin to describe).  damn you Ennis!

Someone asked Jake in an interview (going by memory here,  ::)) :  "How did Jack die?"  or something similar, and Jake answered (I am paraphrasing):  "Jack starts to die the moment he realizes that he will never have the sweet life with Ennis".  I think this is the moment, and I don't know how Jack ever had the strength to keep going back to Ennis for another eight years.

 :'(

J
I think he love him so much take whatever Ennis would give. He as well as Ennis still lived for the few weeks a year they spent together.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline twistedude

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2006, 03:37:11 pm »
"...you wear such nice clothes." Ever read that? Nah...of course, he leaves his jacket in the truck. It's warm in Juarez, even in the late winter.
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Offline Meryl

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Re: The post-divorce scene observations
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2006, 12:41:39 pm »
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