Author Topic: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17  (Read 84331 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2007, 12:16:09 pm »
I've noticed Alma gets far more sympathy than Lureen does in a lot of discussions about the women.  I wonder if that is part of the stereotyping of strong, take charge women as cold, while Alma clearly looks more like a victim.

I, for one, am more sympathetic to Lureen. I don't blame Lureen for their marriage becoming something they could do over the phone. I think she gets unfairly accused of being cold and heartless toward Jack. I see her as a well-intentioned, loving and ultimately frustrated wife caught in a bad situation she doesn't fully understand. Besides, she does a kindly deed at the end, suggesting Ennis get in touch with Jack's folks.

I guess Alma is just as innocent a victim of circumstances, but she gets on my nerves more.

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One wonders how Ennis would share the news of Jack's passing with Alma.....

I'm betting he'd never mention it.

Re the No. 17: There's a theory I saw on imdb that connects the mailbox number to Lureen's performance in the rodeo. It's been a while since I've seen the movie and I never noticed this line particularly, so I'm going on what I remember of the imdb post, but apparently we hear the announcer saying that Lureen's score is 16.9, and that she has come in second to a competitor from Wyoming.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2007, 12:58:29 pm »
Cory Wills (props): Ang, what numbers should Heath put on the mailbox?

Ang: Doesn't matter, just make it between about 8 and 20 or 25, we want to give the audience a feel for the size of the trailer park. If  we have to shoot the scene over we can just give him different numbers.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 01:06:23 pm by jpwagoneer1964 »
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Lynne

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2007, 03:02:06 pm »
It's not that I'm wholly unsympathetic toward  Lureen - I'm a career-oriented female myself.  But she lost big points with me twice - first when she let the customer/cowboys refer to Jack as a 'pissant' and remained silent, imo, for the sake of her bottom line.  Second during the 'blue parka' scene, it becomes clear that Jack has been the parent primarily involved with Bobby at school, and she shrugs off getting Bobby a tutor.  In the short story, she controls the purse-strings, so he can't pursue it on his own, as I recall.

Like everyone, she's not all bad - she's pleased when Jack stands up for himself at Thanksgiving and like Katherine says, it's generous and kind of her to suggest Ennis get in touch with the Twists.

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I guess Alma is just as innocent a victim of circumstances, but she gets on my nerves more.

For me, I think Alma getting on my nerves is because of the era.  She knows her husband is gay and allows herself to be a victim.  I guess that still happens today, but the modern female in me screams 'Move on, already.'

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Re the No. 17: There's a theory I saw on imdb that connects the mailbox number to Lureen's performance in the rodeo. It's been a while since I've seen the movie and I never noticed this line particularly, so I'm going on what I remember of the imdb post, but apparently we hear the announcer saying that Lureen's score is 16.9, and that she has come in second to a competitor from Wyoming.

I hadn't heard that one - it's a good one...so many different ways to find meaning here.  :)

Like Eric said, this one's my favorite from Meryl:

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[in Chinese symbology] the number 8 represents Rebirth. There are other symbols of new life in that scene as well: Alma, Jr.’s impending marriage, Ennis’s newly awakened sense of the importance of making sacrifices for loved ones, and the view of the young green crops seen from the window in the last shot.”
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline serious crayons

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2007, 03:19:11 pm »
The shorter time wins in barrel racing. For Lureen: “...the time is 16 and 9.” For Cheyenne: “...her time is 17 and 2.”

Oh! (blushing icon) That makes sense. Well, maybe I didn't understand, or misquoted, the explanation in the first place. I wasn't familiar with the announcer's line.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2007, 10:28:27 am »
Cory Wills (props): Ang, what numbers should Heath put on the mailbox?

Ang: Doesn't matter, just make it between about 8 and 20 or 25, we want to give the audience a feel for the size of the trailer park. If  we have to shoot the scene over we can just give him different numbers.

Mark, is this a real quote from somewhere, or a pretend thing?

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2007, 11:53:02 am »
Mark, is this a real quote from somewhere, or a pretend thing?
No, it's just my take on this scene. Any number chosen someone would come up with a hidden meaning. 36  <> 63 the year Jack and Ennis met, 12  1 2 respective number of children an on and on.

My mom a college english treacher once attended a interview with a famous author. In one of here stories in order to set the scene she described a spider crawling up the wall. The reader had dozens of questions about the meaning of the spider. She replied 'Its just a spider crawling up the wal!'.

Mark
« Last Edit: January 31, 2007, 12:22:00 pm by jpwagoneer1964 »
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2007, 11:43:57 pm »
Well, walking home from work today... for some reason I was thinking about Ennis and that mailbox (who knows why really  ::) ).  And I just kept thinking... just the simple fact that he gets a mailbox at all is a big deal.  Lee makes us look at him dealing with that mundane ol' mailbox for quite a long camera time.  Why?  Why of all things are we meant to look at a mailbox for so long?  Not only that, but Ennis walks away from it turns, and looks at it himself (thus re-enforcing the idea that the movie-viewer is supposed to find something important/ interesting regarding that mailbox).  If the protagonist focuses on it, the viewer is more than likely going to follow his actions (it's almost an automatic response from a viewer... especially this late in the film after we've been conditioned to identify with Ennis for the bulk of the story). 

So, the only thing I can think that's super significant (and, Mark, you'll be happy to know this doesn't have to do with the possible symbolism of no. 17, etc.) but it's just the plain fact that Ennis has changed.  Through the whole film- the previous 20 years of Ennis's life or the entirety of his relationship with Jack he hasn't had a mailbox.  The fact that he did something different is a sign of some sort of evolution in his character.

Does this make sense?

I guess we could debate the point of whether Ennis had a mailbox at any of his other previous residences (we're not always shown this particular detail all that carefully)... but I think we're meant to believe that in all the times past he's collected his mail through p.o. boxes at the post office.

 
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Offline opinionista

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2007, 05:00:14 am »
OT but, now that you mention it, I've kind of wondered why they didn't fish. I mean, they had all that time on their hands, what else do they have to do??  ::)

OK, you don't need to answer that. But really. They go horseback riding. They go hunting. They've got all the fishing tackle with them. Why not?

Maybe because if they did, Alma wouldn't have any evidence to throw at Ennis later.


I also wondered the same thing. Why didn't they fish if they did everything else? I guess it wasn't something they really liked to do. After all, Ennis comes with the "he was a fishing buddy" lie on the spur of the moment, when he receives Jack's first postcard.

As for the postcards writing, I think they didn't write long letters because, unlike women, men in general don't do that. At least I've never met any man who would write a long, detailed letter, unless they're at war.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2007, 11:14:45 am »
Through the whole film- the previous 20 years of Ennis's life or the entirety of his relationship with Jack he hasn't had a mailbox.  The fact that he did something different is a sign of some sort of evolution in his character.

But evolution in what direction? Is it a sign that he has become more open to communicating with others? Or less, because it means he can avoid trips into town? My feeling has always been that it's an implicit invitation to Jack -- he's hoping for "postcards," so to speak. Perhaps he's belatedly open to Jack's communication. The fact that he carefully adjusts and examines the letters the same way he does in the "tent don't look right" scene underscores that interpretation, for me.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2007, 11:45:09 am »
I also wondered the same thing. Why didn't they fish if they did everything else? I guess it wasn't something they really liked to do. After all, Ennis comes with the "he was a fishing buddy" lie on the spur of the moment, when he receives Jack's first postcard.

 
who says they didn't fish? We see Ennis exiting his truck with all of his gear, and I'm sure fish would have supplemented their meals on the campouts.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.