Marajuana

[Shakesthecoffecan]

In all of my extensive reading of posts on numerous boards, I cannot recall any discussion of Jack rolling a joint and handing it to Ennis. It is almost like the other details of the story/film were so incredible that this statement was not worth the effort. What was Jack's party habits? Randall apparently was not that long out of Texas A&M so did he turn Jack onto pot? And what of Ennis? Where on his coffee pot would the other pot have ever made its presence known? When I first saw the film I was like "hey they're smoking a joint!" and then nothing more.

I have nothing against them or anyone getting high, the silence surprised me more than anything.

[Penthesilea]

Now that you say it, yeah, it's surprising it was never brought up as a topic, given that we discuss vividly about coffee pots, fans, a single cherry in a pie and thousand other subtle details.

When I first saw the movie, I found it really cool that Ang Lee let the pot smoking happen so casually and naturally. Because this is what it is in reality: people do smoke dope in their leisure time just as casual as they have a drink. But in movies either it is non-existent or it's made a big deal.

Annie Proulx describes it in the story in the same way:

Jack and Ennis passed a joint back and forth, the fire burning late, Jack restless and bitching about the cold, poking the flames with a stick, twisting the dial of the transistor radio until the batteries died.

Her essay "Getting movied" ends with the words:

[...] an accumulation of very small details gives the film authenticity and authority: Ennis's dirty fingernails in a love scene, the old highway sign ENTERING WYOMING not seen here for decades, the slight paunch Jack develops as he ages, [....] Ennis and Jack sharing a joint instead of a cigarette in the 1970s, [...] the speckled enamel coffeepot, all accumulate and convince us of the truth of the story. People may doubt that young men fall in love up on the snowy hights, but no one disbelieves the speckled coffeepot, and if the coffeepot is true, so is the other.

Annie Proulx is spot-on: it is one of the unnumberable details that make this movie so real.
But it wasn't in the 70s, it was at their last meeting, May 1983, in both story and movie.

And what of Ennis? Where on his coffee pot would the other pot have ever made its presence known?

I like your phrasing here, lol
Reasoning from what we see, it was not their first shared joint. Thinking about it, it may be a little bit surprising, regarding Ennis. I think it was Jack who brought the dope. And I like the thought that, being together with Jack, Ennis was relaxed enough to have a shot at it.
Somehow I can't see Ennis in his trailer smoking a joint, but I don't have a problem picturing him nursing several (too many, probably) beer bottles.
But maybe I should give Ennis more credit here. He may have lived in rural Wyoming, travelling only around the coffeepot, but he clearly wasn't living under a rock. So maybe their first time sharing a joint was just like the one time we witness: no big deal.

What was Jack's party habits?

I don't know when and where Jack may have made his first aquitance with dope. Maybe in the Rodeo curcuit? But I don't think so. His rodeo days ended when he met Lureen, mid-sixties. Probably too early. I don't think smoking dope was as widespread in the mid-sixties as it was in the 70s.
But in the 70s I think it was widespread. And Jack had more of a social life than Ennis. He came around, travelling for Newsome Farm Equipment, and he and Lureen apparently had an active social life in the communitiy of Childress.

[moremojo]

Hey, shakes, Judy and Pete and I broached this topic at our dinner last night (lovely people, great food, and LOTS of BBM discussion--what's not to like?). We all thought it rather astonishing that our boys, with their conservative, rural backgrounds, would partake of the wacky tobaccky, but agreed that Jack must have introduced it into the relationship, given his greater worldliness and more cosmopolitan outlook due to wider peregrinations.

As you point out, the detail comes straight from Annie's original story, where it also receives nothing past a brief reference. I remember reading that Proulx was anxious that this detail not be elided due to overly PC sensibilities on the studio's part, and in this, as in so many other ways, the filmmakers preserved the integrity of Ms. Proulx's vision. Still, how did Ennis, with his inclination to stodginess and conservatism, manage to be persuaded to take this trip on the wild side? That Jack Twist apparently had lots of tricks up those blue sleeves of his!

 

[serious crayons]

To be honest, I don't like this part. And not because I disapprove of marijuana (believe me, I really, really don't disapprove of it ).

But it just never struck me as realistic. Back in '83, I was much younger than Jack and Ennis are in that scene, and I knew lots of people who smoked pot. Pretty much everyone I knew did, in fact (most did much more than that). But I knew very few people in their late 30s who did. And I lived in a fairly large, liberal city.

Now, admittedly, at that point in my life I knew very few people in their late 30s, period. But it always seemed to me that pot never particularly caught on among pre-baby boomers (and Jack and Ennis are just out of baby-boomer range). Of course, there are tons of exceptions. But would those exceptions be people who lived in conservative small towns, who socialize with pretty conservative folks, and who to all appearances have no younger or hipper friends?

I'm not saying it's impossible. It just seems unlikely. So that scene has always made me kind of uncomfortable (as does the line in the story). It seems a little, I don't know, gratuitous or something.

[nakymaton]

I would bet that Jack's and Ennis's kids knew exactly where to get pot in 1983. I would bet that the kids, at least, knew people who grew it. My experience in the early 80's was that kids who would grow up to be very socially and politically conservative were the wildest partiers in town.

As for whether Jack and Ennis would know... hmmm. I bet that the younger ranch hands that Ennis worked with smoked pot. And Jack was more worldly and willing to experiment in any case.

So I didn't find it surprising at all.

[opinionista]

To be honest, I don't like this part. And not because I disapprove of marijuana (believe me, I really, really don't disapprove of it ).

But it just never struck me as realistic. Back in '83, I was much younger than Jack and Ennis are in that scene, and I knew lots of people who smoked pot. Pretty much everyone I knew did, in fact (most did much more than that). But I knew very few people in their late 30s who did. And I lived in a big, liberal city.

Now, admittedly, at that point in my life I knew very few people in their late 30s, period. But it always seemed to me that pot never particularly caught on among pre-baby boomers (and Jack and Ennis are just out of baby-boomer range). Of course, there are tons of exceptions. But would those exceptions be people who lived in conservative small towns, who socialize with pretty conservative folks, and who to all appearances have no younger or hipper friends?

I'm not saying it's impossible. It just seems unlikely. So that scene has always made me kind of uncomfortable (as does the line in the story). It seems a little, I don't know, gratuitous or something.

I thought it was realistic. They're from 1960's generation after all (I know they weren't born then, but you know what I mean, I think). I don't think  liberal city people were the only ones who smoked pot then, it was pretty widespread, especially during the 1980's. Ennis and Jack weren't city boys, but Jack travelled some because of his job, and Ennis probably met other ranch hands who knew about pot and stuff. So, I think it's possible and realistic they had a joint or two. 

[delalluvia]

I think Jack picked up more than men in his travels to Mexico. 

[serious crayons]

I think Jack picked up more than men in his travels to Mexico. 

Now, there's a thought! I like that. To me, it seems a more realistic possibility than being turned onto it by a combine customer.

[nakymaton]

"You been to Mexico, Jack Twist?"

"Hell yes, I've been to Mexico. Where the hell do you think that weed came from?"

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Wow, these are some insiteful observations, I'm amazed.

I think those born in the years just after WWII would be more likely to smoke pot than those slightly older. I do know people Jack and Ennis's age who partake, but it was never a big thing in their lives. I think many who were in the war in Vietnam were exposed to it there and brought it back with them, so contemporaries of theirs could have turned them on to it.

This makes me think about the draft, knowing Jack was too busted up to be drafted, I wonder about Ennis. Perhaps he got a deferment for being married, then one when each daughter was born, but by 1967 it seems like he would have been vunerable. O-well, it's a story now, ain't it? But imagine Ennis in Vietnam. He may have been read for Texas when he got back. 

[serious crayons]

"You been to Mexico, Jack Twist?"

"Hell yes, I've been to Mexico. Where the hell do you think that weed came from?"

 

"Thank god! I thought you went for ... well, never mind."

[vkm91941]

Well for another view point let me share this.  My oldest brother was born in December of 1943 and was 19 years old  in the summer of 1963 just like Ennis and Jack.  He did not go to Vietnam, he was rejected by the draft board even though he was in ROTC because of a severe Knee injury that required multiple surgeries...so he got married and went to community college instead, then on to UCLA 3 years later.  Pot was not a part of his & his wife's  life in those early days but by the time he was established in his career in his 30's it was very much a part of recreation with their adult friends.  Now that they are in their 60's it is once again no longer part of their life or at least so he tells me.  So seeing Jack and Ennis light up seemed perfectly consistent with the times for me.

[serious crayons]

  Pot was not a part of his & his wife's  life in those early days but by the time he was established in his career in his 30's it was very much a part of recreation with their adult friends.  Now that they are in their 60's it is once again no longer part of their life or at least so he tells me.  So seeing Jack and Ennis light up seemed perfectly consistent with the times for me.

What were his friends and community like? For me, what seemed unrealistic was the combination of their age and their conservative small-town millieu. But I would be glad to be wrong. If it's not unusual, I would feel better about the scene.

[vkm91941]

What were his friends and community like? For me, what seemed unrealistic was the combination of their age and their conservative small-town millieu. But I would be glad to be wrong. If it's not unusual, I would feel better about the scene.

Well we did and do all live in California after all and not rural Wyoming.  They have always lived in a small rural town about 60 miles from the San Diego City Limits.  But they are college educated, white collar professionals in a liberal state so I can see the point that this alone would make a difference.  But Jack was not the Wyoming farm boy anymore.  He had been on the rodeo circuit and it's not a stretch to think that once married he was exposed to Lureen's college friends as well.  That combined with the money and the lifesytle it could afford would have increased Jack's sophistication and life experience ten fold past Ennis's.   I can still totally see Jack introducing Ennis to the joys of pot smoking.  If ever a guy was in need of mellowing out it was Ennis Del Mar  and no one knew that better than Jack.

[Sheriff Roland]

Well we did and do all live in California after all and not rural Wyoming.  They have always lived in a small rural town about 60 miles from the San Diego City Limits.  But they are college educated, white collar professionals in a liberal state so I can see the point that this alone would make a difference.  But Jack was not the Wyoming farm boy anymore.  He had been on the rodeo circuit and it's not a stretch to think that once married he was exposed to Lureen's college friends as well.  That combined with the money and the lifesytle it could afford would have increased Jack's sophistication and life experience ten fold past Ennis's.   I can still totally see Jack introducing Ennis to the joys of pot smoking.  If ever a guy was in need of mellowing out it was Ennis Del Mar  and no one knew that better than Jack.

And le's not forget the aformentioned Mexico trip(s) - accapulco gold and all! - Mexico was a major supplier of "good stuff" when I was growing up - in the late 60's & 70's

[slayers_creek_oth]

"You been to Mexico, Jack Twist?"

"Hell yes, I've been to Mexico. Where the hell do you think that weed came from?"

ROFLOL...sorry just thought it was funny....

[injest]

What were his friends and community like? For me, what seemed unrealistic was the combination of their age and their conservative small-town millieu. But I would be glad to be wrong. If it's not unusual, I would feel better about the scene.

what the??? PUULLLEEEZZZEE!! Small towns are rife with drugs...always have been. If you know everybody you know where you are safe. If you are friends with the local sheriff then you are not overly concerned that he is gonna raid your house. Conservative has nothing to do with it. the same people that have stills grow weed...you don't have a lot of stills there in the big city you have bars and such.

Do you turn in your relatives? your friends? well there are few things more close knit than a small town. everyone has their drug of choice, be it pot, alcohol, or church. no we don't get the law involved in family matters.

[pgcatz]

Jack went to Mexico for Sex. I always thought he might have brought pot home with him from Mexico.

[serious crayons]

what the??? PUULLLEEEZZZEE!! Small towns are rife with drugs...always have been.

I have no doubt this has been true for quite a while (though not always, IMO). And I'm sure plenty of small-town young people were pot-smokers in 1983. But my experience is that people who didn't grow up using drugs as teenagers are somewhat unlikely to start using them as they approach 40, particularly in conservate societies, and were even less so in 1983. If I'm wrong, that's great -- then the scene will make more sense to me. Does anyone here happen to know anybody from a small, conservative town who started smoking weed in their late 30s? I know plenty of pot smokers, but the few I know who started at an older age were arty, liberal, urban types.

[nakymaton]

But my experience is that people who didn't grow up using drugs as teenagers are somewhat unlikely to start using them as they approach 40, particularly in conservate societies, and were even less so in 1983.

There was a story on NPR recently about the ages at which people stop experimenting with new things (music, food, and piercings were mentioned), and it supports your observations.

On the other hand, sometimes I wonder if my friends' parents weren't a lot wilder than I used to think.

I bet some of them actually had sex, for instance.

(Not mine, though, of course. )

[Penthesilea]

On the other hand, sometimes I wonder if my friends' parents weren't a lot wilder than I used to think.

I'd bet. I always thought that my extended family (parents, uncles, aunts, some of their friends) were honest, square and boring people whose wildest times consisted in only one beer more than appropriate every now and then, and staying out longer than their parent's had allowed.
How wrong I was. They were a young and wild bunch. And I learned some pretty "undescent" things about my oh-so-strongly-catholic aunt.

I bet some of them actually had sex, for instance.

(Not mine, though, of course. )

Of course, lol. I'm sure I was brought to earth from the strork too 

But my experience is that people who didn't grow up using drugs as teenagers are somewhat unlikely to start using them as they approach 40,

I know some parents from friends who tried their first pot when they were in their fifties. Their children (then in their thirties) were tired of lying and hiding to their parents and finally told their parents that they were smoking pot for ages. Some of the parents were eager to try it themselves 

But sure it's more unlikely than start using drugs in ones teenage years.


Back to Ennis and Jack:
I still think it fits somehow. In the 70s, when smoking dope became popular, they were between 26 and 36. More around thirty than around forty years.
Jack came around a lot. And he was in general more boyish, playful, more of a dreamer, more of a risk-taker, more open to having fun in various forms and more willing to trespass given rules (shooting a sheep, for example) than Ennis was. More open in many ways. So I can picture him being open to try something new, something that promises to be fun.
And Mexico is a good argument from delalluvia.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Good. So, prenant pause, I've inhaled. How about you?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

yeah nakymaton, in the story Jack came into money and found ways to spend it. He got his teeth fixed.

[serious crayons]

Good. So, prenant pause, I've inhaled. How about you?

Wouldn't it be easier to ask who hasn't?

[Penthesilea]

Wouldn't it be easier to ask who hasn't?

 

[moremojo]

Wouldn't it be easier to ask who hasn't?

I haven't--God honest truth. I have been in the presence of other people partaking of the drug (I was first offered it when I was in the sixth grade), but have never sampled it myself.

[vkm91941]

Wouldn't it be easier to ask who hasn't?

I haven't--God honest truth. I have been in the presence of other people partaking of the drug (I was first offered it when I was in the sixth grade), but have never sampled it myself.

I was never into ilicit substances myself.   I prefer more natural highs but I tried it in college to see what all the fuss was about and just the smell alone was, and still is,  enough to trigger a migrane for me so no more pot for me ever.

[moremojo]

I was never into ilicit substances myself.   I prefer more natural highs but I tried it in college to see what all the fuss was about and just the smell alone was, and still is,  enough to trigger a migrane for me so no more pot for me ever.

I actually find the smell pleasant (as I do that of smoky rooms and car interiors, though I can barely abide direct cigarette smoke itself [go figure]), but was sufficiently scared by parents, school, and media into staying away from any significantly mood- or mind-altering substances, and therefore have steered clear of them. I feel more emotionally vulnerable than the average person (with lots of challenges involving anxiety disorder and phobias), and don't want to fool around with anything that might psychically burden me even more. I have to concede, though, that the drug culture has helped to inspire some fantastic music, literature, and art (for example, The Velvet Underground, Hakim Bey, and Alex Grey, respectively), and has no doubt been part of the source of religious inspiration (note the references to soma in the Rig-veda)...the world would be a poorer place without some intrepid souls exploring this realm of pleasure and dissonance.

[SFEnnisSF]

IIRC, there *WAS* a thread about this on IMDB way back in the day...  It was called "Our boys smokin' a joint" or something like that....

I personally felt it fit in with the story and the time perfectly.  Made absolute sense to me.  

[Jeff Wrangler]

I haven't--God honest truth. I have been in the presence of other people partaking of the drug (I was first offered it when I was in the sixth grade), but have never sampled it myself.

Me, neither. Hell, I've never even tried tobacco.

But back to Ennis and Jack and the joint in the story and the movie: I guess we really don't know that the time we see them smoke it is the first time--and they both seem so casual about it in the film that I suppose it isn't the first time.

As for the pot use seeming not to fit with their ages, maybe it's just another of Annie's anachronisms--like giving Alma, Jr., an age in May 1983 that doesn't square with her September 1964 birthdate. (Annie describes Alma, Jr., as "a shy seventeen-year-old" in 1983, but if she had been born in September 1964, she would have been 18-going-on-19.)