getting hit hard by offhand revelations (story discussion)

[jpwagoneer1964]

But the story is more descriptive of their passion in their later years than is the film. For me, I find that to be a (very) small flaw (in the movie). When you read the story, there is no doubt that Jack and Ennis’ love and passion for each other is as intense as it was on BBM. IMO, you don’t sense that in the film until they have their argument. It is at that point where the depth of their feelings for each other is revealed. Don’t get me wrong … I am not saying that don’t love and crave each other. What I am saying is that after the reunion scene, we really don’t see their passion and desire for each other (certainly not to the extent that the story describes).

  I would not mind seeing more at all. In the 2003 screen play there are a lot more scenes of their later camping trips.

[jpwagoneer1964]

I know I'm all alone in the tent at the camp in this but I still think:

Jack was not lying to Ennis about the Ranch foremans wife-Movie Jack was very handsome, women had always found him attractive he did like the attention. Hi  did like women well enought. If not why not take up his father inlaws offer whether Ennis would be with him or not?

Randall was never anything more that a option for Jack-He never responds to him at the dance.

By the look on Jacks face He seldom returned to Mexico.

[serious crayons]

Jack was not lying to Ennis about the Ranch foremans wife

Hmm! That IS a different view, Mark. What do you make of Mr. Twist's revelation that Jack had said he planned to bring some other fella up to work the ranch?

[jpwagoneer1964]

Hmm! That IS a different view, Mark. What do you make of Mr. Twist's revelation that Jack had said he planned to bring some other fella up to work the ranch?

I think Jack was talking out of frustration of what happened at the lake with Ennis. It could have been brought on by Mr. Twist saying "What ever happened to that Ennis Del Mar?" He knew that he would never bring Randall up there to LF if he even knew where Randall was at that point.

Someone had said in a post that when Mrs. Twist touched Ennis s shoulder, she was reasuring him not to worry that Ennis was true love of Jacks life.

[jessiwrite]

I'm new here but the discussions I'm reading are like manna from heaven.
I also do not think Jack ever intended on bringing anyone up to LF but Ennis.  He was probably grasping for some solution to make his life bearable, but he knew he couldn't quit Ennis, been eaiser just to stop breathing.
Jack's mother was surely trying to share grief and comfort Ennis.  She had to have known about the shrits.  If Jack had real plans to bring someone up, I would think he'd at least put them away better.

jessi

[nakymaton]

“Ennis ran full-throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending”

When does movie-Ennis ever spend money at ‘full-throttle’? For that matter, when did story-Ennis spend money? There was no way to fix the transmission, and he had a “tobacco can with two five-dollar bills inside.”

Does Ennis ever mend fences? He puts up a lot of fences between himself and other people, and he tends not to mend problems in his relationships.

That's a weird line, isn't it? That was one of the few descriptions in the story that wasn't that vivid for me, and you're right, we don't see that side of Ennis really, do we?

I assume that Ennis had mended plenty of fences doing ranch work, but I've never thought of fence-mending as the sort of activity that one throws oneself into with the sort of, hmmm, impulsiveness or decisiveness that Ennis displays in TS1. As for money-spending... well, I've known people who don't have much money, but who spend what they've got pretty impulsively. It's easier today with widespread credit card use, though.

You're right, the description sure doesn't fit movie-Ennis, who is really cautious about pretty much everything. (Heck, he even wants to be cautious for Jack when he sees Jack on the low-startle-point mare the first time!)

But then again in the movie, there's that sort of dance between Jack and Ennis before they have sex, so it isn't as sudden as it seems to be in the book, either. (Though the meaning of "they deepened their intimacy" is open to a lot of interpretation, so maybe it wasn't as sudden as it seems in the book, either.)

[Front-Ranger]

That is one really big difference between the movie and the story. Movie Ennis seems to be much more repressed and different than Jack. The movie is a compare-and-contrast between Jack and Ennis, much more of a romantic he-said-she-said type of story. The story is more subtle and more of a meeting-of-the-minds between Ennis and Jack. The couple, in the story are against a harsh and disapproving world; in the movie, they are often against each other.

[jessiwrite]

That's a weird line, isn't it? That was one of the few descriptions in the story that wasn't that vivid for me, and you're right, we don't see that side of Ennis really, do we?

I assume that Ennis had mended plenty of fences doing ranch work, but I've never thought of fence-mending as the sort of activity that one throws oneself into with the sort of, hmmm, impulsiveness or decisiveness that Ennis displays in TS1. As for money-spending... well, I've known people who don't have much money, but who spend what they've got pretty impulsively. It's easier today with widespread credit card use, though.

You're right, the description sure doesn't fit movie-Ennis, who is really cautious about pretty much everything. (Heck, he even wants to be cautious for Jack when he sees Jack on the low-startle-point mare the first time!)

But then again in the movie, there's that sort of dance between Jack and Ennis before they have sex, so it isn't as sudden as it seems to be in the book, either. (Though the meaning of "they deepened their intimacy" is open to a lot of interpretation, so maybe it wasn't as sudden as it seems in the book, either.)

Ennis seemed to run full throttle in the first sex scene.  In the movie i feel it was a complete surprise.  I didn't see any kind of attraction dance between them. Other than that time I agree he never spent.  Even in the book though we had her word for it.  When else did he run full throttle?  The statement always threw me a little, I l\know she was explaining the first sex but still.

[Penthesilea]

Goarda, thank you for bringing up this line. Every time I read the story, I stumble over this sentence, even in two ways: one is the characterization of Ennis as a full-throttle-type and two, I have a comprehensive question. Here's the whole sentence:

Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect cock.

Ennis wanted none of it: does this refer to the two afore mentioned activities or to what Jack did? When I look at the sentence's stucture, I think both is possible. But I may be totally wrong, since English is a foreign language to me.

First possible interpretation:
At this point, at this exact time, Ennis wanted neither mending fences nor spending money = a funny way to describe that he had completely other things (=sex) on his mind at this point.

Like in this sentence: James loved his job, travelling and sky diving, and he wanted none of it when Julia opened her blouse. = when Julia opened her blouse, James forgot everything but the thought of having sex with Julia now = James thought only with his d*ck at this exact moment;  he had only one aim.


Second possible interpretaion.
Ennis didn't want his hand on Jack's erect cock at all.

Am I totally wrong about the first possible interpretation?


On Ennis' characterization as a full throttle type:
Mel already said it, at least movie Ennis was sure not the full throttle type, in contrast, he was very cautious.
But on the other side: Ennis was sure the type who would commit himself totally to what he had decided to do. This goes along with his stubbornness and with him being more of a rule-follower than Jack. Ennis had decided to do the job of protecting the sheep, and he refused to shoot one. He had decided to marry Alma, and he did. I think when Ennis worked, he worked hard. And when he met the foul mouthed bikers, he sure went full throttle with them. First he was trying to calm the situation down, but when he decided to take action, it sure was full throttle.
And in his own way, he committed himself to Jack as much as it was possible for him: he quit jobs for Jack, he argued with his boss about getting free time, he never looked for any other men, and so on.

If Ennis had decided to live with Jack, he would have committed himself totally to him. He sure wouldn't have backed out at the first sign of problems. This is one of the reasons why I'm convinced that it would have worked, had they tried to live together (ups, *that* discussion is on another thread  ).

[nakymaton]

Ennis ran full throttle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect cock.

Second possible interpretaion.
Ennis didn't want his hand on Jack's erect cock at all.

I read it as a version of the second possible interpretation. Ennis wants none of the foreplay; he doesn't do any of the intermediate steps to having sex. He just goes straight for the sex. No kissing, no... well, ok, I'll just let you all imagine all the things that they didn't do.

And I guess I can think of one very unsubtle way in which mending fences fits the image: to mend fences, presumably one needs to, ummmmmmmmmm, pound some rather phallic-looking fence posts into the ground.

So maybe the imagery does work.

Maybe I just haven't watched enough guys building fences.

On Ennis' characterization as a full throttle type:

But on the other side: Ennis was sure the type who would commit himself totally to what he had decided to do. This goes along with his stubbornness and with him being more of a rule-follower than Jack. Ennis had decided to do the job of protecting the sheep, and he refused to shoot one. He had decided to marry Alma, and he did. I think when Ennis worked, he worked hard. And when he met the foul mouthed bikers, he sure went full throttle with them. First he was trying to calm the situation down, but when he decided to take action, it sure was full throttle.

Good point. I guess Ennis isn't particularly impulsive, but he doesn't do things halfway. Which is kind of what Annie's getting at in that sentence.

Maybe I was thrown by the imagery of a kid driving way too fast on a dirt road. That's not commitment, that's just insanity. (Says the mother of a boy-kid who sure had better not drive like that on mountain roads!)