Whoa, whoa, whoa, Chrissi and Meryl and Lee and momof2! I was playing devil's advocate with mlewis back there. I think he/she has a really good point, and the more I think about it, the more I think he/she's probably right about the story.
Back before the movie came out except in festivals, somebody on Wranglers actually argued that the reunion kiss might have been so intense precisely because it was the first time they had actually kissed. (The person on Wranglers was pretty much torn to pieces for even suggesting that possibility; some people had already seen the movie, and some people had already written fanfic, and I think most people were very attached to the image of Jack and Ennis kissing, and kissing a lot, that existed in their minds. Which, you know, I can't really blame them for...)
Chrissi (Penthesilea)'s quote:
There's something about "the right key turning the lock tumblers" that, hmmm, maybe suggests to me that this was a new discovery. And the intensity could be the result of both the four-year separation and the repression of the urge to kiss on the mountain.
Because kissing really is something special, something emotionally intimate. So I understand why people want to believe that they kissed on the mountain, and I understand why Ang Lee (or whoever, but I suspect it was Ang) decided that the movie needed something like the 2nd tent scene. But the way I read story-Ennis, he's a real mess. I don't buy the argument that story-Ennis is focused on his external fears; I think that the Inner Parent that Meryl describes was just as much of a force in story-Ennis's life as he was for movie-Ennis. So I think that Ennis may very well have avoided kissing in the midst of all that rough, quick, laughing-and-snorting sex... because that would have meant acknowledging that he was queer. And he couldn't do that; he experienced the emotions in strange, metaphorical ways, as a "head-long, irreversible fall" and as a need to puke.
And I think I've read some guys saying that, yes, denial can be like that, that there are guys who will avoid kissing to avoid recognizing that they are gay. I'm not a gay man, though, so I can't speak from my own experience.
Sorry I didn't realize I had not posted my gender! I am a "he" (at least the last time I checked).
Yes, Mel, I just want to underscore that these points are the points that lead me to believe - fairly strongly - that no kissing went on up on BBM - especially given the fact that they were guys; especially given the fact that it was 1963 and Wyoming; and especially given the fact that years-dead Old Man Del Mar/Ennis's Inner Parent was standing inside him the entire time holding that tire iron . . . it just would have been "queer" for them to kiss. I hear the chorus now, "How can kissing - so much less intimate than, ahem, penetration, be more 'queer'?" - well, kissing is more public, more often seen, an almost universal gesture (in the passionate form we see at the reunion or between lovers in general) of shared passion - and for Ennis at least, at the time, and probably even then Jack as well - something that would only happen that way between a guy and a girl. Also, friends, welcome to the state of Denial. I know several gay men who would never, never, never kiss another man. No, I'd better rephrase that - I know several men who engage in sexual behavior with other men who would never, never, never passionately kiss another man. They probably don't self-identify as "gay."
But let me take another tack - about the reader finishing the story. I can't go up and look at who said that above, but it did stop and make me think - what am I bringing to the story that makes me so sure that Story Ennis and Story Jack didn't kiss until the reunion? (although I'm with Mel regarding Ms. P's prose sending me in that direction). So I looked at it the other way, and I believe that some of you are importing some modern views into the text, but really there's nothing wrong with that, and no definitive statements that make my point. It is just a feeling, an impression, if you will - but a strong one for me. I guess what I meant to say by the last two sentences didn't get out the way I wanted - I mean, I disagree with you if you think they kissed on BBM BUT it wouldn't destroy my pleasure in the story if they did and I certainly don't want to take away your pleasant personal completion of the story by insisting you buy my view!
I want to be careful that this thread stays more focused on the story, but the compare/contrast thing really gets me going. I re-read a discussion from last summer between Jeff W and others regarding the type of sex Ennis and Jack were having both on the mountain and later. I still side with Jeff that the sex was fun, a connection to or expression of a deeper emotional bond, but that it was strictly of one type only, perhaps throughout the relationship! This is undoubtedly a "conservative" view (is that word even allowed here?!), as is my view on kissing, etc. For ME, this conservative view does not lessen the character or quality of their relationship, but definitely increases the pathos of the work. Consequently, although it was the Film that got me to repeat viewings and the deep emotional impact of this tale, not to mention posting and debating on forums, it's the purity of the Story I keep being drawn to - the story as finished off by me, in my head, of course. So when I first saw the film, and saw the second tent scene, it rang false for me, and at some level, continues to do so to this day. Yes, it's beautiful. Yes, I think the film would be crippled without it. But it, more than almost anything else other than the Story motel scene, shows up the difference between Story Ennis and Film Ennis for me. Story Ennis just would not have done in the tent in that second scene what Film Ennis does. He would instead have playfully wrestled Jack around and done what they both enjoyed so much. Maybe after, he would have drawn Jack to him, "butted up against" him, as after the first night.
Please don't think this means I didn't LOVE the film! But the more we re-enter this discussion, the more I believe Film and Story Ennis are different characters.
Now all this has made me think of something else - and it kinda contradicts what I just said above. When Story Ennis divorced Alma, and called Jack, and Jack drove 1200 miles for nothing - what stopped Story Ennis from going ahead and "ranching up" with Jack at that time? It had to still be the fear of the tire iron, right? In that way, at least, he was just the same as Film Ennis - just, as Mel says above, a difference of how to show t
he same character in print vs on screen.
I also have to say I agree with Front Ranger regarding a sliding scale of sexuality for all human beings. I do think it's possible, however, that Jack was "more gay" on the scale than Ennis, but Ennis was WAY more uncomfortable with how "gay" he was. I still love the notion that Story Ennis was only "queer" for Jack - and I think it makes it more endearing regarding their relationship that Jack may have been Ennis's only male sexual partner, and of course his only true love.
Finally, the story is earthier in terms of the sex, because it did keep going all through the relationship, right out there for us to see it. In the film, we are bereft of seeing even that comfort for the boys (except for 10 seconds of cuddling during sleep on their last-ever night together . . . OK, now I'm getting really sad
).
I want to apologize to anyone who has heard these thoughts from me before, because I don't remember all the posts I made last winter. I miss having them to review - so sad they were on IMDB and not here! But mostly from others crashing, bashing and trying my posts, and from a lot of exposure to the film and the story at the time (I saw the film 11 times, I think, on screen, but read the story almost every day for several months), I felt I was beginning to get a handle on my story experience, and the insight it provided me into these characters. However, now I feel somewhat lost, and I'm approaching old beliefs and arguments with a strange sense of deja vu. So if any of you find me rehashing old stuff - please be patient! And I do love everyone's input - it's so enlightening - thesis, antithesis, resolution of a new thesis that itself gets bashed into something even better.
