parents, kids, and people who used to be kids

[nakymaton]

You might have noticed that some of us parent-types on the board keep getting off topic and discussing kids and parenting. So... here's a thread where we can talk about kids (and about having been a kid ) without derailing the other conversations going on.

Some of the side conversations we've been having in the past few weeks include:

- naming kids, and the comments people make when you tell them the names you are considering. (For the record: I didn't tell anyone the name we had chosen for my son until he was born. And then it turned out to be the most common boy's name in town that year. Oh, well.)

- kids' movies, and what a three-year-old can watch without getting scared. (I've tried The Wizard of Oz and Finding Nemo with no luck. Thank goodness for DVDs that can be turned off when the scary or sad parts begin!)

- how to keep a kid from running wild in the grocery store... and stories about the kids we just can't seem to make behave in the ways that everyone would like them to behave.

- how annoying it is that "family" tends to mean "we have a Bible and don't serve gays" rather than "we have crayons and serve grilled cheese sandwiches and pancakes with mouse ears on them."

[Front-Ranger]

Yay, a place for us!! There was a time when I would have been just thrilled if my kid just ate yogurt, Mel. Instead she had food fetishes for things like marlin and black olives. I got concerned because you know olives are cured in lye. But, she lived and pretty much eats everything now.

Scary movies? I can just tell you which ones to stay away from. Bambi is the worst! With the Wizard of Oz a close second. Don't even think of putting on the Yearling. Stick to Barney and Sesame Street, they are only mildly traumatizing.

Thanks for starting this thread!

[serious crayons]

My kid is going through a phase where all he wants to eat is strawberry yogurt. Is he going to turn into a pink cow?

Kids seem amazingly resillient when it comes to food. If I believed everything I read about nutrition in magazine articles -- which I do -- my kids are lucky to be standing right now.

I'm afraid it doesn't get much better as they get older. My 10-year-old son is a strict vegetarian, won't eat anything that has even touched meat. My 12-year-old son eats no vegetables. My husband is trying to lose a few pounds, so he doesn't want anything fattening. As for me, I am tired of making anything that takes more than 15 minutes to prepare.

So what does that leave us? Not much beyond Chinese takeout.

Mel and Barb, don't you love how whenever your report some scary development in your 3-year-olds and ask if it's a bad sign, my response is always "Yes, be very afraid"?  Sorry, but it's better than the reverse. From the time my first son was born people kept telling me it was going to get easier. Ahem ... I'm still waiting! 

[Jeff Wrangler]

I am not now, nor will I ever be, a parent, but even so, I would not let a child under age 8--maybe even under age 10, depending on the child--watch The Wizard of Oz. I don't care if it's a classic. It scared the hell out of me as a small child.

[Lynne]

I am not now, nor will I ever be, a parent, but even so, I would not let a child under age 8--maybe even under age 10, depending on the child--watch The Wizard of Oz. I don't care if it's a classic. It scared the hell out of me as a small child.

Jeff,
I'll second what you said above and add Snow White.  The branches of the trees reaching out and grabbing her during her escape through the enchanted forest gave me nightmares for weeks; I can't remember how old I was - 8 or 9, I guess.
-Lynne

[serious crayons]

I'll second what you said above and add Snow White.  The branches of the trees reaching out and grabbing her during her escape through the enchanted forest gave me nightmares for weeks; I can't remember how old I was - 8 or 9, I guess.

When my younger son was about 3, he wanted to watch Snow White constantly. He'd have watched it several times a day, if he could. We had a bunch of videos, but whenever I'd ask him what he wanted, the answer was always "Snow White!!!" I could never figure out why he loved it so much. Maybe he identified with the dwarves?

(Why is it that G-rated movies can kill off friends and parents? Seems to me that those are about the most traumatic possible things that a small child can imagine. Or are they common in children's movies because kids worry about those things anyway?)

Maybe. This doesn't quite justify Bambi's mother getting tragically shot, but one explanation for why kids in children's stories are so often orphans is it gives them a chance to fantasize about being out in the world and having adventures and being powerful figures -- an escape from their real lives, where they're powerless and small and largely at the mercy of adults.

[Front-Ranger]

Also, what is a Power Ranger, anyway? My son says he wants to be one for Halloween, and I have absolutely no clue what's involved.

I keep trying to convince him to be a pirate, because I figure that's an easy costume, but no. Cowboys we can do, too. But no. A Power Ranger, whatever that is.

I'm not sure we can visit the costumes section in the store, either. Last year he got really scared of the skeleton that started singing and dancing when we walked by, and he hasn't let me take him into that section of the store again.

I don't know about a power ranger, but a Front Ranger I do know about!!
One year my son wanted to be Legolas. So, I had to sew up leggings, a tunic (two layers), an arrow case, sheath for sword, halberds, arrows, and boots. I bought the blonde wig, fake sword, dagger, and bow. It was grueling!

[serious crayons]

You guys are so brave to make costumes from scratch. No way would I ever do that, because I know exactly what would happen: I would slave over some elaborate things, and my kids would hate them and refuse to wear them.

So for years, I just took them to Target and let them pick out what they wanted. One year, my then-3-year-old son unhesitatingly picked out a McDonald's french-fries costume. He was all excited about it. Then he got to the daycare party and discovered that all the other boys had superhero costumes. He refused to wear the french fries. On Halloween night, he grudgingly wore the fries trick-or-treating, but complained the whole time and kept insisting on going home. Finally, I gave in. On the way, we stopped at a convenience store. Some older kids hanging around outside said, "Cool french fries, dude!" And then of course he liked them.

Now my boys' main priority in a costume is that it must be gross. So we just go to the costume shop and get fake blood and fake wounds and fake knives stabbing into wounds and fake broken glass sticking out of wounds.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Are the Power Rangers still around? Be glad he doesn't want to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. 

[cmr107]

Having recently turned 20, I think I'm somewhere between the 'kids' and 'people who used to be kids' categories, but I'm going to go ahead and reply here.

I used to love Power Rangers! I think I wanted to be the yellow one. One of my fondest memories is from when I was little involved them. My parents had a rule for Christmas morning that my brother, who is 2 years older, and I couldn't wake them up to go downstairs until like 6am or something. He had a TV in his room and I didn't for a few years, so we would both wake up really early and we would watch Power Rangers in his room until we could wake our parents up. And yes, I liked Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles also.  (I was a bit of a tomboy.)



Now about food. I am, and have always been, the pickiest eater I know. I think it is partly to do with the fact that my mom was rather traumatized as a kid because her mother always made her eat everything on her plate, whether she liked it or not. My mom did not want to impose that on me, so I never had to eat anything I didn't want to. It seems like I have some sort of weird psychological thing about trying new food. I think the best approach is to make kids try new food, but don't make them eat it if they don't want to.

I don't think any of these movies you guys are talking about scared me as a kid, and I saw all of them except Bambi. I remember seeing West Side Story when I was pretty little, and wow, was I terrified. But I like it now. 

Sorry guys, apparently I talk to much at 1:45am. We now return to your regularly scheduled program thread. 

[Jeff Wrangler]

Was the yellow Power Ranger a girl? I notice her top seems different from the other two. What did they do, anyway?

And at age 48 there is still an awful lot of kid in me. I still have--carefully preserved--my favorite childhood toys. I collect model trains (and play with--er, run--them), I collect toy soldiers (not fancy metal ones, the plastic ones of my childhood--but I don't play with them), I like to put on funny clothes and a sword and go to Renaissance faires and medieval reenactments.

Growing older chronologically is mandatory. Growing up is optional. 

[serious crayons]

There's one good thing about all this peer pressure about stuff marketed to kids. At least the kids want to buy stuff that's actually available. Whether I'll be saying that when he gets to the age of Katherine's kids is another matter entirely...

Well, my kids want stuff that's actually available, all right. Affording it is another question. Almost nothing they want costs less than three digits. My son's birthday was last week, and all he wanted was money, because he knew I wouldn't spend enough to buy any of the concrete things he wants. I did get him a few little things, though, with mixed results.

Side note to Colorado residents, particularly those interested in geology: One thing I gave him that he claims to actually like is a copy of James Michener's "Centennial," a fictionalized history of Colorado from 3.6 billion years ago to present. I read it a looooonnnnggg time ago, but I remember it as being pretty compelling. My son claims he'll read it, but we'll see -- he's technically capable of the reading, but then it is 1,038 pages long. For $8, I figured it's worth the gamble.

After all, 1,038 pages is only one page longer than "Gone With the Wind," a book I'd read more than once by the time I was his age. But my son is a boy, and far more energetic than I ever was.

[Jeff Wrangler]

(And with all the toys, Jeff, I hope you at least get to be an uncle or an honorary uncle for some kid. I know mine would really love to sit and watch a model train go around and around. He's even gotten pretty good about just watching, and not trying to touch things that are delicate. Though he likes to follow them and watch them go through tunnels. If you ever do take a trip West, you should really come out here... I live in a great town for a model train enthusiast. )

Nope, nobody's uncle here. No brothers or sisters, so no nieces or nephews. I kinda sorta usedta be a kinda honorary uncle to my best high school buddy's two boys, who are now almost full grown (one got his driver's license this year--eeew). That amounted to getting then each a toy at Christmas and a book on their birthdays. Probably just as well it didn't involve more, since kids scare the dickens out of me! 

[ednbarby]

Just wanted to chime in late on the Wizard of Oz thing - no way will I let Will see that until he's *at least* 8 years old.  I had nightmares for literally years about those damned monkeys, and the Wicked Witch of the West, especially in that scene where the nasty old hag on the bike turns into her while Dorothy's house is flying around, about made me pee myself the first time I saw it at four or five (and I was long since potty trained by that point).  And I may *never* let him watch Bambi.  Or The Yearling.  Or :shudder: Old Yeller.  Good God, I still feel a chill when I think of any of those.

Here are the two issues I'm dealing with right now:

1.) He very rarely will stay in his room all night.  Almost invariably, he ends up climbing in with us/me and waking our asses up.  He said it was too dark, so we put in a night light.  He said it was still too dark, so we left his door open with the hall light on.  Then it was too light.  We found a compromise by toning the hall light down a little and only partially opening his door.  Then he said he didn't like his bed - it was uncomfortable.  We got him a new bed (he was due anyway - he'd been in a toddler bed he was outgrowing) that he picked out and loved, complete with new Spider-Man sheets, he stayed in there for two nights straight and we thought we'd finally found the answer, but now he's "scared" again.  Will we ever get to fully enjoy our own bedroom in peace again as long as he's living in the same house with us?

2.) Everything is an argument.  You say to him, "You can have pizza or fish sticks tonight for dinner.  Which would you like?"  He says, "I want a cheeseburger!"  This just happened yesterday.  He'd been whining off and on all day about nothing.  Finally, Ed was at the end of his tether and he said, "Do you want to stop whining, or do you want to be punished?"  He goes, "I don't want to stop whining AND I don't want to be punished."  GAH!!!  THERE IS NO OPTION C!!!  How can we get this across to him?  Or are we giving him choices too often to begin with?

[Jeff Wrangler]

I know this is no help to Barb or anybody, but I can't help but remember that I got over needing to sleep with a night light because I was even more afraid of fire than I was of the dark.

My mother bought new curtains for my room, long ones, that hung down over the electrical outlet where the night light was plugged in. I was afraid the night light would set the curtains on fire. End of sleeping with a night light.

Hadn't thought of that memory in years. ...

[serious crayons]

  Or are we giving him choices too often to begin with?

Giving choices is one of those parenting magazine solutions I was referring to earlier, that sound good on paper but I've found rarely work in practice. Like the one about how if your kid is headed for a meltdown, just plunk him into nice warm soothing bath -- which is really helpful when you're standing in the checkout line at Target. Or if the meltdown is about taking a bath in the first place. 

Barb, Will's quote sounds about whining like something my son said when he was about 2. My husband told him that if he didn't stop whatever it was he was doing he (my husband) would put him (my son) in time out. My son -- three-foot-tall elf wearing footie pajamas, hands on hips, chest puffed out -- shoots back, "No! I will put YOU in time out!"

[ednbarby]

Giving choices is one of those parenting magazine solutions I was referring to earlier, that sound good on paper but I've found rarely work in practice. Like the one about how if your kid is headed for a meltdown, just plunk him into nice warm soothing bath -- which is really helpful when you're standing in the checkout line at Target. Or if the meltdown is about taking a bath in the first place. 

Barb, Will's quote sounds about whining like something my son said when he was about 2. My husband told him that if he didn't stop whatever it was he was doing he (my husband) would put him (my son) in time out. My son -- three-foot-tall elf wearing footie pajamas, hands on hips, chest puffed out -- shoots back, "No! I will put YOU in time out!"

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone in my disgruntlement about the choices thing.  Screw "Parents" magazine - here's what *really* works.  "Will - dinner time."  "What are we having?"  "Fish sticks."  "But I want a cheeseburger."  "Well, we're having fish sticks tonight.  We'll have cheeseburgers some other time."  "Can we please have cheeseburgers tomorrow night?"  "Since you just asked so nicely, sure, I don't see why not."  The End.

And Jeff, funny how that works.  I think I'm on the brink of having Will convinced that he'll have just as many bad dreams in our bedroom as he'll have in his own - that the sleep location has nothing to do with it.  Unfortunately, many times the truth is the hardest thing to sell to little kids.  I have to resist breaking down and telling him that the monster lives in *my* closet, not his (which is true to some extent if you think of monsters in abstract terms - I'm hiding more than a few skeletons in there, not to mention all the excess baggage).

[cmr107]

Growing older chronologically is mandatory. Growing up is optional. 

So true. I'm not expecting to ever really grow up. It's more fun this way! 

[cmr107]

And I may *never* let him watch Bambi.  Or The Yearling.  Or :shudder: Old Yeller.  Good God, I still feel a chill when I think of any of those.

I don't think I've ever seen any of those. Wow.

[Ellemeno]

Glad I found this thread!

Halloween costume: Thank you, O universe, that M wants to be a black kitty cat.  She already has a black turtleneck, black leggings, and I miraculously HAPPENED on little black and orang kitty ears on a headband at Walgreen's the other day, that she miraculously actually finds comfortable to wear.  She's been practicing (and practicing and practicing) her tiny, high-pitched kitty mew, and pretending to scratch the furniture with her tiny kitty claws.   If I get it together by the time she needs it, I may make a tail, but I don't think it will occur to her first to want one.  And we'll use black marker right on her face (whoo-hoo!) to make whiskers and the tiny kitty nose.  She loves drawing all over herself with marker, so that'll be a thrill.  

BTW, her first Halloween, when she was 7 months old, she was a little purple cowgirl, with some purple cowgirl boots I happened on in Old Navy.  

Birthday efforts:  For the last two years, we have made it a specia adventure to go to the local megamarket, for her to choose her own birthday cake for them to make, and then more fun to go pick it up the day of the party.  She knows that her Aunt D makes all her own birthday cakes, but so far does not judge her own Mommy as a slacker who does things the easiest way possible.

Food, Pickiness around:  M is pretty good about eating a pretty wide variety of fruits and vegs.  (Katherine, I was thrilled to hear you have a vegetarian, Miranda is too.)  And doesn't really know a whole lot about candy yet, just that it happens at some special events we go to.  She still accepts what I told her once, that all the candy displays in the grocery store are "big kid" candy.  I can't believe she hasn't argued that one yet.  She also knows that at dinner, if she wants more mac & cheese, I will say, "Sure, have two more broccolis while I get it for you."  And she eats the brocs.  She's not at all compliant in some regards, but the food thing is usually okay.

We have a family coming over tonight to join us for dinner, and when I called the mom to ask what would make a successful meal, I found out that their little 3 year old will only eat spaghetti with butter and cheese, and that cauliflower is her only vegetable.  So that's what I'm serving (with sauce and other things on the side).

MY cringe:  M started preschool a month ago, and the teachers tell me she sometimes doesn't act like she hears them when they direct her to do something.  "Have you had her hearing checked?" they asked.  Um, no, I'm pretty sure she has the ears of a bat, considering she yells, "Siren!  Siren!" about 30 seconds before I can hear it approaching.  It's just that her Mommy and Daddy aren't always very, you know, consistent with followthrough when we ask her to do something.  So she's not used to being as cooperative as a preschool full of kids might require her to be.  So we are working on that.