Author Topic: Anyone been to Italy?  (Read 32131 times)

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Anyone been to Italy?
« on: March 26, 2011, 04:14:45 pm »
I'm starting to plan our trip to Italy.

We want to do a guided tour because there is so much in Italy we want to see, that doing it on our own when we don't speak much Italian I think would be more trouble than it's worth.

We obviously can't afford a top notch tour because the price is restricting, but we want to see both north and south Italy

Places we definitely don't want to miss:

Venice
Florence
Pisa (is optional)
Tuscany region
Rome
Pompeii
(Naples is optional)

Does anyone have any experience with tour groups?  Any advice would be welcome.

Offline CellarDweller

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 32,931
  • A city boy's mentality, with a cowboy's soul.
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 07:30:05 pm »
*waves*

I went to Italy in September of last year.  I went alone, but met a friend there and she was my personal tour guide, so I really can't give any experiences regarding places to go or stay, as she took care of everything for me, and I stayed with her.

I was only there 4 days, and stayed right in Rome, it was fantastic.  You are going to love it.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,564
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 11:39:05 pm »
I was there in 1999 on a bus tour. I would suggest Rome, defiantly, several days.

Pompeii should be a whole day but skip Naples. South of there Sorrento was nice and you can take the boat over to Capri, which is touristy but the Blue Grotto is worth it.

Venice you must see, but it is horribly expensive. You can stay on the mainland and go over for the day/evening.

You HAVE to see Florence, it is one of the most beautiful places on earth. Words just cannot describe.

Pisa is a tourist trap. I called it the Gatlinburg of Italy.

I would also endorse visiting Assisi. The architecture is amazing, which it is all over the country. I wish I had had more time to spend in Tuscany, it was truly beautiful.

"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 10:36:45 am »
I've been to Italy twice. It's wonderful.

I didn't go on a guided tour, but I have a friend who speaks a little Italian and likes planning trips. She planned both itineraries, with a lot of help from travel guru Rick Steves.

The first time, we stayed in Rome, Florence, Siena, the Cinque Terre, Venice and Milan. The second time, we stayed in Montepulciano, Florence, Rome and the Amalfi Coast.

My favorite places were Rome, Florence and Positano on the Amalfi Coast.

Pisa seemed skippable. We went past it on the train.

I'd also recommend getting some Italian CDs and listening to them in your car for a while before you go. Not essential, since many Italians speak English, but helpful.


Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 10:45:38 am »
You could so Pisa in a couple of hours. Thats what I did when on my way to Florence from Venice or Bologna (I can't remember which) when doing my Eurorailing back in 2002.We did it with no italian language skills and not much money - its definitely doable if you plan!

Busabout may be an option for you? http://www.busabout.com/.

Not sure if you would be willing to hostel it? (Lots of hostels do twin rooms these days btw and then attached to the hostels is always afforable day trip tours)

If you don't fancy busabout it will at least give you and idea of do-able and afforable routes. (See the south Loop)

I am also a huge fan of Florence.

http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 10:52:37 am »
Also perhaps invest in An italy Lonely palnet book or borrow it from the Library. That will give suggested itiinareies /routes within your price range.

Here's a direct link for a Busabout Italy specific package - only a three day one though.

http://www.busabout.com/Italy/3Day
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 03:12:19 pm »
Also perhaps invest in An italy Lonely palnet book or borrow it from the Library. That will give suggested itiinareies /routes within your price range.

Here's a direct link for a Busabout Italy specific package - only a three day one though.

http://www.busabout.com/Italy/3Day

Thanks guys.  And thanks for the link.  Let me see if my sister is willing to hostel and I'll go from there. 

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 03:23:06 pm »
I was there in 1999 on a bus tour. I would suggest Rome, defiantly, several days.

Pompeii should be a whole day but skip Naples. South of there Sorrento was nice and you can take the boat over to Capri, which is touristy but the Blue Grotto is worth it.

Venice you must see, but it is horribly expensive. You can stay on the mainland and go over for the day/evening.

You HAVE to see Florence, it is one of the most beautiful places on earth. Words just cannot describe.

Pisa is a tourist trap. I called it the Gatlinburg of Italy.

I would also endorse visiting Assisi. The architecture is amazing, which it is all over the country. I wish I had had more time to spend in Tuscany, it was truly beautiful.

That must have been pretty bad, then, Truman.   ::)  Because Gatlinburg is tacky, tacky, tacky...

I don't know anything about Italy, but I've also had great experiences with hosteling - it's a wonderful way to have more $ to spend on seeing things and trying wonderful food and I never spend any time in the hotel anyhow if I can help it.

I also think you would like to learn a little Italian - just listen to the basic tapes or disks from the library.  I feel much better/more comfy about being in Germany because I know a few basic phrases and can figure out signs without much trouble.

Happy Trails!
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 04:00:44 pm »
That must have been pretty bad, then, Truman.   ::)  Because Gatlinburg is tacky, tacky, tacky...

I don't know anything about Italy, but I've also had great experiences with hosteling - it's a wonderful way to have more $ to spend on seeing things and trying wonderful food and I never spend any time in the hotel anyhow if I can help it.

I also think you would like to learn a little Italian - just listen to the basic tapes or disks from the library.  I feel much better/more comfy about being in Germany because I know a few basic phrases and can figure out signs without much trouble.

Happy Trails!

The only problem I would have with hostels is leaving bags there and of course, bedding.  What with the bedbug infestation that's going around these days.

Heh, as I said in my threads on my trip to Paris, the trouble with learning some basic phrases, is that if you ask in the local language, they answer you in the same.   :laugh:  I didn't find that helpful.   However, since I know Spanish fairly well, it usually impresses the locals into thinking I'm just not another American tourist who only knows English and thus are more inclined to help me.

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 04:04:16 pm »
The only problem I would have with hostels is leaving bags there and of course, bedding.  What with the bedbug infestation that's going around these days.

Heh, as I said in my threads on my trip to Paris, the trouble with learning some basic phrases, is that if you ask in the local language, they answer you in the same.   :laugh:  I didn't find that helpful.   However, since I know Spanish fairly well, it usually impresses the locals into thinking I'm just not another American tourist who only knows English and thus are more inclined to help me.

Of course, I'm only just getting started here in GER - no bedbugs at Chrissi's or the Bochum hotel.  The hostels' policies seem to vary between providing your own sheets or renting theirs for an extra 2-3 Euros.  At the hostel in Bonn on my first night, the sheets I 'rented' were bleached within an inch of their life...
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2011, 04:49:42 pm »
Plus, bedbugs can show up in the fanciest of hotels. I don't know if rates are a consideration for them.


Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2011, 05:08:24 pm »
Yes, that's very true Katie. I've yet to experience bed bugs and I've stayed in (admitadelly on one or two) GROTTY hostels!!

But as Lynne says, sometimes you provide your own sleep sheet/sleeping bag or you can rent.

Or quite often in the hostel rooms that are private (Cal and I often stay in a private room in Hostels for example) the bedding is part of the price like it would be in a hotel.

The good thing I find about hostels though is the company i.e maybe travelling partners who can travel with you or just give you advice and helpful tips and so on as well as the social element. It's really fun to meet new people of a variety of ages and learn about them and what they are doing with themselves! Also gives you a rest from the monotony of spensing all your time with your travel partner!!
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2011, 05:08:58 pm »
Plus, bedbugs can show up in the fanciest of hotels. I don't know if rates are a consideration for them.

Heh, there are plenty of wealthy people who don't care too much about personal hygiene because of culture or whatever, and/or their luggage might have picked it up by being stashed somewhere not so clean.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2011, 05:13:58 pm »
Yes, that's very true Katie. I've yet to experience bed bugs and I've stayed in (admitadelly on one or two) GROTTY hostels!!

But as Lynne says, sometimes you provide your own sleep sheet/sleeping bag or you can rent.

Or quite often in the hostel rooms that are private (Cal and I often stay in a private room in Hostels for example) the bedding is part of the price like it would be in a hotel.

The good thing I find about hostels though is the company i.e maybe travelling partners who can  you our travel with you or just give you advice and helpful tips and so on as well as the social element. It's really fun to meet new people of a variety of ages and learn about them and what they are doing with themselves! Also gives you a rest from the monotony of spensing all your time with your travel partner!!


I'm not a real social person.  I'm not the kind who just strikes up conversations with strangers.  The times that I have, I lived to regret, so I don't do it.  When we were in England and Paris, we were on such a tight schedule to make sure we saw everything, that there wasn't much time to socialize.  AND, frustratingly enough for my sister, the people we DID end up chit chatting with were those people who were working the touristy areas who weren't even locals!  They were immigrants, so we didn't get any real idea about local life because we didn't talk with anyone who was a native.  I did try to chitchat up one guy who appeared local, but he didn't appear to be happy in his occupation as a tour guide to Stonehenge and only grunted or refused to answer questions about local life.  

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2011, 05:22:20 pm »
I don;t mean so much the workers in the hostels but the other travellers giving the tips...

Well that's certainly something to consider then. We have done hostels and not done the social thing but thats easier to do when you have private rooms in the hostels.. when you stay in dorms that social chit chat is harder to avoid.

We use them a lot though as it allows us to actually see and do things we couldn't do if we stayed in hotels. We've always enjoyed the experience and not felt we missed out by having the chaper accomodation - quite the opposite in fact.
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2011, 05:29:22 pm »
I don;t mean so much the workers in the hostels but the other travellers giving the tips...

Well that's certainly something to consider then. We have done hostels and not done the social thing but thats easier to do when you have private rooms in the hostels.. when you stay in dorms that social chit chat is harder to avoid.

We use them a lot though as it allows us to actually see and do things we couldn't do if we stayed in hotels. We've always enjoyed the experience and not felt we missed out by having the chaper accomodation - quite the opposite in fact.

When I think hostel and chatting with fellow travelers, instead of getting great conversation I always think I'll end up like this guy

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMQM4m2qpwA[/youtube]

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2011, 05:37:25 pm »
When I think hostel and chatting with fellow travelers, instead of getting great conversation I always think I'll end up like this guy

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMQM4m2qpwA[/youtube]


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2011, 10:59:52 pm »
Ah, I love traveling with my sister.  ::)

I sent her 4 possible tours with a few options each for trips and she turned her nose up at every single one and never once made an offer to do the research herself.

Then she said, "Oh that trip's too long, I only have X amount of days this year because I'm going on this trip and that trip and you know, October's better for me."

I held my temper and very nicely wrote back that perhaps we should wait for 2012 then, when she has more time and we can go earlier in the year.

I didn't tell her that I would be damned if I was going to be rushed through a trip to Italy because SHE didn't have enough days and to take a chance on cold and rain later in the year because that time was more convenient for HER.   >:( >:( >:( >:(  Last trip we waited later than I wanted to and ended up in Paris in the rain and cold.  I want to see Italy when it's warm.

I'm more than happy to go on my own without her and I might just do that.

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2011, 04:47:26 am »
Ah, I love traveling with my sister.  ::)

I sent her 4 possible tours with a few options each for trips and she turned her nose up at every single one and never once made an offer to do the research herself.

Then she said, "Oh that trip's too long, I only have X amount of days this year because I'm going on this trip and that trip and you know, October's better for me."

I held my temper and very nicely wrote back that perhaps we should wait for 2012 then, when she has more time and we can go earlier in the year.

I didn't tell her that I would be damned if I was going to be rushed through a trip to Italy because SHE didn't have enough days and to take a chance on cold and rain later in the year because that time was more convenient for HER.   >:( >:( >:( >:(  Last trip we waited later than I wanted to and ended up in Paris in the rain and cold.  I want to see Italy when it's warm.

I'm more than happy to go on my own without her and I might just do that.

Well certainly that would give you the option to do it as cheap or expensive as YOU want to.
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2011, 04:47:32 pm »
Ah, I love traveling with my sister.  ::)

I sent her 4 possible tours with a few options each for trips and she turned her nose up at every single one and never once made an offer to do the research herself.

Then she said, "Oh that trip's too long, I only have X amount of days this year because I'm going on this trip and that trip and you know, October's better for me."

I held my temper and very nicely wrote back that perhaps we should wait for 2012 then, when she has more time and we can go earlier in the year.

I didn't tell her that I would be damned if I was going to be rushed through a trip to Italy because SHE didn't have enough days and to take a chance on cold and rain later in the year because that time was more convenient for HER.   >:( >:( >:( >:(  Last trip we waited later than I wanted to and ended up in Paris in the rain and cold.  I want to see Italy when it's warm.

I'm more than happy to go on my own without her and I might just do that.

Yes, I've said many times that I'd much rather be on my own traveling than with someone that isn't travel-compatible with me.  For instance, I don't enjoy having itineraries set in stone, just a general plan...and I like to be able to nap when I want to...

 :)
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2011, 07:27:08 pm »
I'm waiting for her response to my e-mail because we might just have to take separate trips because this is my last trip overseas ever, probably, and I want to make the best of it and not have to deal with an incompatible travel partner - again.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,564
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2011, 09:06:57 pm »
Yes the Amalfi coast, I forgot about that, it is scary as hell on a bus, but beautiful. Positano is the easternmost point on earth I have ever been.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,564
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2011, 09:08:11 pm »
Also in Sienna there is a Basilica to the intestines of St. Catherine of Sienna, but her noseless head is in another one.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline ifyoucantfixit

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,049
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2011, 12:29:59 am »

   Oh my goodness.  The poor woman.  I am sure glad I shall never be
considered a historical artifact.  Particularly a religious one.. What a
horrible ending.  Demeaning and horrid.



     Beautiful mind

Offline CellarDweller

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 32,931
  • A city boy's mentality, with a cowboy's soul.
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2011, 08:53:50 pm »
Oh, I only stayed in a hostel once, and it was with 5 other Brokies when I went to Oxford.  It was fun.  LOL


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2011, 08:43:09 am »
Also in Sienna there is a Basilica to the intestines of St. Catherine of Sienna, but her noseless head is in another one.

Where's her nose?  ???

My regular bartender told me that he thinks three days is enough for Florence. The art is wonderful, but there's nothing to do at night.

Of course, his idea of "nothing to do at night" may be influenced by his being an unusually handsome young gay guy. ...  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,147
  • I'm marching for her!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2011, 09:38:08 am »
As I recall, everyone in Florence naps in the afternoon, works a few hours, and then goes to dinner around 8 to 10 pm, followed by long walks and nightlife ending in the wee hours. There's lots of good music in Florence during the evening, and you can get a gelato any time of the night!
May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2011, 11:57:22 am »
You can get a gelato any time of the night!

Shouldn't you wait till the weekend to take the girls into town for one of those?  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2011, 12:02:29 pm »
Shouldn't you wait till the weekend to take the girls into town for one of those?  ;D

 :laugh:

I will always love a good Brokieism!


Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2011, 01:00:23 pm »
:laugh:

I will always love a good Brokieism!

Sometimes the opportunity is too good to pass up!  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline CellarDweller

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 32,931
  • A city boy's mentality, with a cowboy's soul.
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2011, 08:19:48 pm »
and you can get a gelato any time of the night!

;D

When I was in Rome, I had white chocolate with hazelnut gelato three times.  ;D


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2011, 04:05:30 am »
HAs your sister replied Del?
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2011, 01:39:12 pm »
HAs your sister replied Del?

Yes, she said spring of 2012 was OK with her.  And to put a cap on the time, the Fates agreed.  I went to the Renaissance Faire last weekend and the woman who read my Tarot cards told me I'd be taking a trip next spring.  :o

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2011, 02:51:17 pm »
Yes, she said spring of 2012 was OK with her.  And to put a cap on the time, the Fates agreed.  I went to the Renaissance Faire last weekend and the woman who read my Tarot cards told me I'd be taking a trip next spring.  :o

ooooh!!
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2011, 11:43:49 pm »
 >:( >:( >:(

I understand things change and things come up, but you know...I've been planning this trip for 3 years.  I got laid off, then got another job and had to wait for the money to be back in the bank and then wait for my sister to make up her mind, so I think I've been patient.

I've been pretty stoked about our trip in the spring, getting things together, checking out tour groups, getting advice from people.

Now, my sister has fucked things up again.

As most of you know, she's been on my back about moving out of mom's house so she can move in ever since I moved here.  Like she's afraid I'll forget I'm supposed to get out and give her her turn.  It's closer to her job, blah blah blah.

Fine, whatever.  So I've never really totally unpacked or made any real investment in the property since I won't be here to enjoy it except to keep the house sound and in working condition.  The aesthetics still need to be addressed.

Well, in the last month my sister was up for review at her place of employment.

She did not get the raise and promotion she was expecting.  She is through with her current employer.  So, of course, she makes the totally logical decision to haul up stakes, put her stuff in storage and move back to her old college town 300 miles away and move in with a friend's college-age son while he goes to school.

She's going to start packing in November.

Makes sense if she's going to stay a while, right?  But she's not going to stay a while.  She's just going down there until I'm out of the house, then she's moving right back here again.

 ??? ??? ???

Stupidity aside, tonight we were talking on the phone because she keeps e-mailing me these "Stay in a Tuscan villa for 11 nights for CHEAP PRICE" advertisements.

Finally I tell her, "I thought we were going on a tour.  We can't do this stuff if we're on a tour.  What do you want to do, a tour or just take the train from city to city and stay at these places?"

Her reply?

"I'll let you know."

We're less than 5 months from our target trip time.  This sounds way too ambiguous for me.

I asked, "I'm planning on finalizing our plans by October, when will you let me know?"

"Oh, well, when I move down, it depends on if I get a permanent job or have to work temp.  If I get a temp job, then it doesn't matter, if I get a permanent one..."

I interrupt, "When is this?"

Her reply, "Oh, in January or so."

"Tours fill up fast.  We have to make a decision pretty quick.  Like in the next month, we can't wait until January and hope to make an April tour."

She starts to speak, but then I just cut her off, "You know, I'm just going to make plans for myself now.  If you can make it you make it, if not you don't."

She said OK and hurriedly hung up the phone.

 >:(

Looks like I'm going to Italy alone.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2011, 12:37:40 am »
Well, if you did go to Italy alone, you'd probably have fun (maybe more fun than you'd have with your sister!  ::)). On my first trip there, I met a woman who was traveling alone and really enjoying it. Admittedly, she'd been in Italy before.

Another idea, though, is to go ahead and make the reservations as if you were going to have the trip that you have in mind. Check their cancellation rules, but often -- maybe it's harder in Italy -- you can back out up to a certain point and not have to pay.

If you stay in Tuscany you'll only be able to conveniently see Florence and small towns. If you want to see Rome, which I highly recommend, don't lock yourself into an 11-day rental.



Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2011, 02:42:53 am »
Well, if you did go to Italy alone, you'd probably have fun (maybe more fun than you'd have with your sister!  ::)).

I was kind of thinking the same thing.  :(
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2011, 12:45:34 pm »
I was kind of thinking the same thing.  :(

Same here.  I am one of those people who does not tire of my own company.

Quote
If you want to see Rome, which I highly recommend, don't lock yourself into an 11-day rental.

I have no intention of being stuck in one region.  While I love the Tuscany area, Rome is my main goal in Italy, Venice is my second.  I daresay if I or both of us went with such a rental, we'd take the train to other parts and pay the extra expense to stay overnight in these cities to tour.  I think that extra expense would more than eat into any money we might have saved.  Which is why that sort of rental was my sister's idea and not mine.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2011, 02:29:52 pm »
I am one of those people who does not tire of my own company.

Same here. That's a good sort of person to be.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2011, 05:00:13 pm »
Same here. That's a good sort of person to be.  :)

Sure enough, but in Italy I bet you'll also want to be in the company of Italians, at least to some extent. You probably know this, but my advice is to get hold of some learn-Italian DVDs and listen to them whenever you're in the car. Or put them on your iPod. The better you can speak Italian when you get there, the better off you'll be, and the more social you can be. Plus, it's a lovely language, and not hard to learn if you already know a romance language.

BTW, this might sound nationist or sexualist or something, but IMO there are a lot of spectacularly beautiful Italians, of all genders. The first time there, my friend and I were constantly parlando back and forth about all of the belli uomi. After a couple of days, we didn't even bother to point out anybody below an otto or nove.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2011, 06:29:55 pm »
BTW, this might sound nationist or sexualist or something, but IMO there are a lot of spectacularly beautiful Italians.

You won't get any argument from me on that point!  ;D

They aren't all in Italy, however. You should see some of our South Philly boys.  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2011, 01:37:18 pm »
Well, I hope to meet Italians, but  :laugh: I rarely met any Englishmen or Frenchmen when I was in those countries.  The English don't speak to anyone and those that did, I found were immigrants.  My sister and I don't reckon we spoke socially to anyone other than an immigrant while we were there.  Same with Paris.  But then again, we were doing the tourist thing.  Rarely are locals around.

I had dinner with my sister last night and the reason she says she wants these long sojourns in Italy was so she could "kick back and relax" and if she didn't see something this time around, she could 'next time'.

My sister lives in a dream world considering her bills, her health and her lack of planning for her future and her credit rating.  There isn't going to be a 'next time'.

I told her I wasn't flying (while terrified) halfway around the world, and spending up to $5000 so I could 'kick back and relax'.  I was there to see the sights.  All the ones I wanted.  I can 'kick back and relax' in the US anytime I want to.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Kindle
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2011, 06:51:59 pm »
OK, I'm planning my solo sojourn through Italy as I write.

I am going for 3 weeks and I will be staying in convents and monasteries along the way, taking the train to each city I want to see.

I am thrilled that I am going to be on my own.

Now, since I'll be schlepping from train station to train stations, I will have to travel as light as possible.  Maybe just living out of a rollaboard.  To keep my load light, instead of taking the normal books and magazines for the flight and winding down at night, I've decided to invest in a Kindle.

I know very little about them.  Can anyone enlighten me about the ones with wi-fi/wireless 3G capability and what that means in laymen's terms? 

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Kindle
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2011, 07:25:42 pm »
OK, I'm planning my solo sojourn through Italy as I write.

I am going for 3 weeks and I will be staying in convents and monasteries along the way, taking the train to each city I want to see.

I am thrilled that I am going to be on my own.

Now, since I'll be schlepping from train station to train stations, I will have to travel as light as possible.  Maybe just living out of a rollaboard.  To keep my load light, instead of taking the normal books and magazines for the flight and winding down at night, I've decided to invest in a Kindle.

I know very little about them.  Can anyone enlighten me about the ones with wi-fi/wireless 3G capability and what that means in laymen's terms? 
/color]

I recommend Kindle Fire. I don't have it -- it won't even be released until Nov. 15 -- but it sounds fantastic. I have a regular Kindle Keyboard 3G, but for an additional $60 (total $199) this has a color screen, many more functions, can do movies and the web and music.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051VVOB2/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=7977325568&ref=pd_sl_je9ik9x9d_b

But! I would first call Amazon -- they have good customer tech support -- and ask if it works in Italy. Just in case. Also, I don't know how the Fire's wi-fi functions compared to a regular Kindle.

I'm not sure, but I think 3G means that you can download stuff from anywhere without having to be connected to a wireless router, like in your home or a coffee shop. I've never had to do that, because I just use my home's wireless, and I don't usually download stuff while I'm actually traveling. But in case you want to, that's good to know. In any case, once you've downloaded something it's a non-issue. It's not like a laptop where you'd need the wireless connection while you read the content.

Did you know that BetterMostian Leslie (MaineWriter) is a Kindle expert? I believe she's written a guidebook on them, is a mod on a Kindle website, and started this thread here: http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,21792.0.html You might consider PMing her about this.

Also, as a backup I would suggest you toss in your suitcase one longish paperback that would tide you over should anything go wrong with your Kindle. You don't want to spend time hunting around for a book in English.




Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Kindle
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2011, 09:51:32 pm »
Thanks.

I'm going to sound Ludditish, but I don't have wireless at home, so what does that mean if I buy something that has wireless potential?  The Kindle 3G had access all over Italy, so I expect the Kindle Fire will as well.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Kindle
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2011, 12:36:00 am »
Thanks.

I'm going to sound Ludditish, but I don't have wireless at home, so what does that mean if I buy something that has wireless potential?  The Kindle 3G had access all over Italy, so I expect the Kindle Fire will as well.

Someone else should answer, but I think that's where the 3G comes in -- it can download without wireless. Looking at the Kindle Fire page, I'm not sure it has it. But again, Leslie or someone techier than I should answer.


Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2011, 07:22:02 am »
I was going to suggest Leslie too. You shoul send her a wee PM.

Great news about you going ahead with the trip! It's been a while I myself was in Italy, but if I can offer any tips, give me a shout. I did some back packing there in 2002, and been to Venice, Bologna, Florence and Rome as well as Ancona (but that was just to get a ferry to Croatia!)
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Shoes
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2011, 11:11:58 pm »
I never worried about shoes before while traveling because I was just in one city.  I wore everyday shoes with insoles and I was perfectly fine.  This time, i decided maybe since I'm traversing an entire country, I need to get some serious walking shoes.

 >:(

Why do they all look so ugly?  Nothing screams "tourist!" like hideous walking shoes and athletic sandals and hiker-like boots.  Do normal shoes that are also sturdy and comfortable and stylish not exist?

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Shoes
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2011, 12:57:15 am »
I never worried about shoes before while traveling because I was just in one city.  I wore everyday shoes with insoles and I was perfectly fine.  This time, i decided maybe since I'm traversing an entire country, I need to get some serious walking shoes.

 >:(

Why do they all look so ugly?  Nothing screams "tourist!" like hideous walking shoes and athletic sandals and hiker-like boots.  Do normal shoes that are also sturdy and comfortable and stylish not exist?

I'm not sure what your standard for "stylish" is, but in my book Privos, Clarks and Merrells are comfortable and reasonably stylish. I still wear the Privos that I bought for my last trip to Italy four years ago. To this day, I would wear them for a walk of any length, but I also occasionally wear them to work with regular office attire. Look for a sole that's shaped like an athletic shoe with a top that looks relatively attractive.

Buy them far enough in advance that you can wear them for awhile and see how they feel. If they are tight or pinching in some parts, take them to a shoe repair shop and get them to stretch them. Then wear them for a while, and they still don't feel good, don't bring them.

And a shoe saleswoman on my last trip gave me great advice: also bring a pair of lightweight flexible black ballet flats you can use as "hotel slippers," to wear in the room or if you want to slip out for some little thing or even as an alternate shoe to wear out to dinner when your feet are tired after a long day of walking.


Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2011, 10:08:26 am »
Ballet flats and what I used to call "Nixon shoes" (those little Mary Janes, usually made in China) are great for house wear, but people with flat feet in particular need to be careful about wearing them for much walking or being on your feet for a long period of time.  Better the clunky touristy shoes than aching feet -- when your feet hurt, it's hard to pay much attention to anything else.

For a long time I resisted wearing athletic-type shoes because they reminded me of the shoes I used to see little old ladies wearing in Miami Beach when I was a kid.  But bunion surgery 20 years ago kinda changed that.    ;)

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2011, 11:22:45 am »
Ballet flats and what I used to call "Nixon shoes" (those little Mary Janes, usually made in China) are great for house wear, but people with flat feet in particular need to be careful about wearing them for much walking or being on your feet for a long period of time.

Oh, definitely. They're "hotel slippers" -- or "out to dinner slippers," at most -- exclusively.

For extensive walking you need a substantial, sturdy but flexible, athletic-shoe-type sole and a top that doesn't pinch or rub. Since the days of the little old ladies in Miami Beach, though, they've developed shoes that offer those comfort features yet are still relatively attractive -- or at least don't call attention to themselves as unattractive. These are all Privo brand (photos from Zappo's).

              

Keens are another brand that are pretty reliably comfortable. I got a pair for my first trip to Italy and wore them for years after that. Mine were lace-up, but here is a pair http://www.zappos.com/keen-golden-ballerina-potting-soil?zlfid=111&recoName=zap_brand_page that appear to be decent for walking but are also reasonably attractive, or at least inobtrusive, depending on your taste -- I know there are some women who only find delicate high-heeled shoes attractive, but I'm not one of them.


When in Italy, I constantly saw women at tourist sites -- including places with long lines, extensive walking, rough terrain -- picking their way around in delicate, high-heeled shoes or boots. They didn't look fashionable to me; they just looked pathetic. It's also pathetic to bring so many shoes (or clothes in general) that your bag is really heavy as you're lugging it through train stations, a mistake a couple of my friends made on the last trip. My formula has been two pairs of good walking shoes, one lace-up and hike-worthy, and the other also sturdy, flat and comfy but slightly dressier, like the Keens above. Plus the hotel slippers.

But even lace-up, sturdy, comfy shoes can be tricky. Years ago I brought a pair of lace-up walking shoes to Prague. I'd only worn them once or twice before that. My feet got so blistered I either had to pass on certain things I wanted to do, or do them but in total agony. The moral: wear the shoes around for at least a few weeks before your trip, have a shoe-repair place stretch them out if any parts are tight.





Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Shoes
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2011, 02:46:28 pm »
I've bought a pair of Mephisto oxfords, Softspots and a pair of Keens, but they look almost hiking bootish, though they're shoes, for rough terrain visiting archaeological sites and climbing volcanoes.  I'll be walking around in them to see if they can stand up to long days.

For my birthday, I'll find out Sunday, someone bought me a pair of Timberland earth keeper ballet flats in red.

And I have a pair of low-heeled Ecco Mary Janes and Jambu closed-toed sandals on my birthday/Xmas list as well.  Not sure about those. 

I'll be visiting the mall this weekend and see if I can find any Clarks etc., that I can stomach.  Yes, I know they're comfortable, but yes,they make you look like one of the geriatric set and I refuse to look like that before I have to.  Luckily I have no foot problems.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Shoes
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2011, 08:20:19 pm »
a pair of Keens, but they look almost hiking bootish,

That's how my Keens were. And they were dark red. So they looked like hiking boots that a clown might wear.


Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2011, 12:39:10 pm »
Anyone read Italian?

I sent out emails looking for rooms in various hostels, B&Bs and convent/monasteries.  I used an online translator and sent out an English/Italian message.  But sometimes, they answer in Italian.  :P

I got an answer from a convent in Venice this moring and I THINK it says something to the effect that my e-mail is my confirmation, but I'm not sure.  Guess I'll have to run it through the translator.  It doesn't bode well that they don't write English, but maybe they speak it.  :-\

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2011, 03:06:59 pm »
I got an answer from a convent in Venice this moring and I THINK it says something to the effect that my e-mail is my confirmation, but I'm not sure.

You are gonna stay in a convent?  :o  :-X  ;D  ;)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2011, 06:54:26 pm »
You are gonna stay in a convent?  :o  :-X  ;D  ;)

Hey!  Whaddaya trying to say!?!  >:(  ;)

It's not like I'm going to wear white or anything.

And it's just in Venice.

I'm staying at a monastery in Florence.  ;D

And I HOPE a convent outside Siena (where they filmed the English Patient) but I haven't heard back from them.  They may be booked.  :(

Sheesh, I'm planning 6 months out and many places are already booked.

The lady in Venice is a nun and she said my e-mail was my confirmation and didn't ask for any money or credit card to hold a room, so I have zero confirmation other than her word and e-mail.  I HOPE they're legit because the location is ideal, two blocks from the Grand Canal, across from St. Marks square.

But I don't know what to do about lack of a solid reservation that except to maybe put in a reservation elsewhere?  Or just hope to find a place when I arrive if they fall through?  The B&B in Pompeii is the same.  They pretty much said just show up and pay in full.

Is this normal?  Does anyone know?

Offline Andrew

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,087
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2011, 08:12:18 pm »
If you are willing to type in the Italian, I am willing to confirm your translation of the letter! 


Offline Andrew

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,087
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2011, 08:23:47 pm »
Also, I don't know if you happened across this site but it gives you a little comparison and some outside confirmation of your place.  It listed several convents so at least you could decide if you wanted to double book.  If you heard back from them it is probably enough - they probably just don't have the resources to do the full hotel-style reservation confirmation or translation.  Italy can be very homey and personal which can be a good thing!

http://www.monasterystays.com

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2011, 11:09:46 pm »
If you are willing to type in the Italian, I am willing to confirm your translation of the letter! 



The convent said this:

Carissima ,
                  per la prenotazione basta inviare conferma via e-mail .  Si paga all ' arrivo .
Saluti  . Suor  Francesca


Any help would be appreciated!

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2011, 11:19:22 pm »
Also, I don't know if you happened across this site but it gives you a little comparison and some outside confirmation of your place.  It listed several convents so at least you could decide if you wanted to double book.  If you heard back from them it is probably enough - they probably just don't have the resources to do the full hotel-style reservation confirmation or translation.  Italy can be very homey and personal which can be a good thing!

http://www.monasterystays.com

Thanks.  That is helpful.

Offline Andrew

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,087
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2011, 11:58:06 pm »
The convent said this:

Carissima ,
                  per la prenotazione basta inviare conferma via e-mail .  Si paga all ' arrivo .
Saluti  . Suor  Francesca


Any help would be appreciated!
It's just what you thought.  "for a reservation an email confirmation is enough.  Payment is not required until arrival.  Greetings, Sister Francesca"

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2011, 12:26:57 am »
Thank you so much.

The B&B replied in English this time:

confirm the double room
single use for two days.
Check in April 16
Check-Out April 18
For the payment made
arrival in Pompeii.
Goodbye.
See you soon.
                                     B&B
                         POMPEI


I guess that means I pay when I show up?  I REALLY don't like not having a reservation and confirmation number, but I guess there's nothing much I can do if I"m staying at these mom & pop places.

Just booked my flight.

I wanted to fly into Venice and then out of Rome, but apparently I can't do that without jacking up the airfares ridiculously.

So I'm flying in and out of Rome.  Guess I'll have to take the train or puddle jumper from Rome to Venice.

I'm sweating my flight back, though.  I leave at noon out of Rome, but I'll be in Pompeii, so I'd have to take the train from Pompeii to Rome and I think I can make it if I get up early enough, but the train schedules won't be up until maybe as late as February for April, so I won't know until then.  

*sigh*

Maybe I'll just spend one night in Pompeii and come back to Rome a day early so I don't miss my flight.

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,475
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2011, 01:41:45 am »
Just booked my flight.


Yay, congrats! :)
It's such a great feeling to do that, isn't it?

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2011, 08:49:26 am »
Hey!  Whaddaya trying to say!?!  >:(  ;)

It's not like I'm going to wear white or anything.

And it's just in Venice.

I'm staying at a monastery in Florence.  ;D

Only that someone should warn the nuns--and the monks in Florence, I guess--to be prepared for lightning strikes. ...  ;D

Are you sure that convent in Venice isn't like a "nunnery" as Shakespeare used it in Hamlet?  ???

Actually, that does sound like it could be kind of a neat place to stay.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2011, 02:57:13 pm »

Yay, congrats! :)
It's such a great feeling to do that, isn't it?


 :laugh:  Actually no.  I'm so incredibly terrified of flying, I always feel like I've signed my own death warrant when I book a flight for myself.  If I change seats, I'm instantly worried that I might have gone from a plane crash survivor seat to a dead one.  I've been unable to sleep well for days making these plans.

 

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2011, 03:00:41 pm »
Only that someone should warn the nuns--and the monks in Florence, I guess--to be prepared for lightning strikes. ...  ;D

Are you sure that convent in Venice isn't like a "nunnery" as Shakespeare used it in Hamlet?  ???

Actually, that does sound like it could be kind of a neat place to stay.  :)

Are you saying I should "get thee to a nunnery"?  >:(  ;)

If their god can't protect them from me, I can't say much for their god's protection.  ;D   ;)  :laugh:

I find monasteries and convents romantic.  And they are reputed - by people who have been to Italy - to be clean and safe.  Not that much cheaper than a cheap hotel mind, but a step up from a hostel and you get some ambiance unlike some local hotels which look horrible cheesy low-end modern.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2011, 03:59:08 pm »
Are you saying I should "get thee to a nunnery"?  >:(  ;)

I was trying to suggest that you might want to avoid one.  ;D  ;)

Quote
If their god can't protect them from me, I can't say much for their god's protection.  ;D   ;)  :laugh:

Two words: Collateral damage.  ;D

Quote
I find monasteries and convents romantic.  And they are reputed - by people who have been to Italy - to be clean and safe.  Not that much cheaper than a cheap hotel mind, but a step up from a hostel and you get some ambiance unlike some local hotels which look horrible cheesy low-end modern.

One would hope they would be clean and safe. Seriously, do you get breakfast, too? Like, even, coffee and a pastry, or sumpin'?

:laugh:  Actually no.  I'm so incredibly terrified of flying, I always feel like I've signed my own death warrant when I book a flight for myself.  If I change seats, I'm instantly worried that I might have gone from a plane crash survivor seat to a dead one.  I've been unable to sleep well for days making these plans.

 :( I'm sorry to hear this.  :(
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2011, 07:44:27 pm »
I was trying to suggest that you might want to avoid one.  ;D  ;)

Two words: Collateral damage.  ;D
]

You are so bad!  I'd be measuring myself for a lightning rod if I were you.  :laugh:

Quote
One would hope they would be clean and safe. Seriously, do you get breakfast, too? Like, even, coffee and a pastry, or sumpin'?

Yep, a bed and breakfast in a convent and monastery.

Quote
:( I'm sorry to hear this.  :(

Me, too.  I expect to be heavily drugged throughout the flight.  It's an awful conjunction of loving to travel, but being terrified of flying.  It makes each trip a combination of hell and heaven. 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone read Italian?
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2011, 08:31:51 pm »
You are so bad!  I'd be measuring myself for a lightning rod if I were you.  :laugh:

 ;D

Quote
Me, too.  I expect to be heavily drugged throughout the flight.  It's an awful conjunction of loving to travel, but being terrified of flying.  It makes each trip a combination of hell and heaven. 

Seriously, I wish there were something I could say to help. I'm not fond of the experience myself, but I mostly just try to focus on where I'm going, not how I'm getting there. But it sounds like you're aversion is a lot stronger than mine.  :(
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Meryl

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,186
  • There's no reins on this one....
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2011, 08:35:14 pm »
I used to be terrified of flying, but as I got older, I became more philosophical about risking my life in a plane.  That helps.  That, and Xanax.  :)
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2011, 12:21:29 am »
I used to be terrified of flying, but as I got older, I became more philosophical about risking my life in a plane.  That helps.  That, and Xanax.  :)

A LOT Of Xanax.  :P

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2011, 09:37:56 am »
hypnotherapy?
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,475
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2011, 10:24:26 am »
:laugh:  Actually no.  I'm so incredibly terrified of flying, I always feel like I've signed my own death warrant when I book a flight for myself.  If I change seats, I'm instantly worried that I might have gone from a plane crash survivor seat to a dead one.  I've been unable to sleep well for days making these plans.



I'm also afraid of flying, but only since I've first been to Denver (very first Brokie gathering in the US).
Yeah, I also think about which seat to choose. ::)
But for me, the anxiety only comes the evening before leaving. Upon booking, I'm always ridicously happy.

*handing some virtual Xanax over to Della* :-*

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2011, 11:59:01 am »
I used to be terrified of flying, but as I got older, I became more philosophical about risking my life in a plane.  That helps.  That, and Xanax.  :)

I guess I've gotten more philosophical about it. I just tell myself there's usually no help for it: In most cases, if I'm going to go most places that I want to go in the time I have available, there is no other alternative but flying. The possibility of disaster is always in the back of my mind, but I just try not to dwell on it. I'm fatalistic about it: If there is a disaster I will die, and there's no point worrying about it because nothing can be done about it. And if there isn't a disaster, I'll get to be somewhere I want to be and/or with people I want to be with.  :)

I'm not especially claustrophobic, but it's the idea of being crammed for hours in a cramped little seat inside a giant tin can where you can't see anything that bothers me more than the possibility of disaster.

And I actually like flying in small planes, where you can actually see the world spread out like a map beneath you.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2011, 05:28:05 pm »
I guess I've gotten more philosophical about it. I just tell myself there's usually no help for it: In most cases, if I'm going to go most places that I want to go in the time I have available, there is no other alternative but flying. The possibility of disaster is always in the back of my mind, but I just try not to dwell on it. I'm fatalistic about it: If there is a disaster I will die, and there's no point worrying about it because nothing can be done about it. And if there isn't a disaster, I'll get to be somewhere I want to be and/or with people I want to be with.  :)

I'm not especially claustrophobic, but it's the idea of being crammed for hours in a cramped little seat inside a giant tin can where you can't see anything that bothers me more than the possibility of disaster.

And I actually like flying in small planes, where you can actually see the world spread out like a map beneath you.  :)

I'm not big on flying, but that's because of the inconveniences and discomfort, not fear. I'm like you -- I figure I'll just leave my fate to Fate.

But also, if I started worrying about plane crashes whenever I flew, I'd have to start worrying about car crashes whenever I drove or rode in a car. Statistically speaking, I believe the latter are more likely. Even if you argue that, per mile flying or driving, flying is more dangerous (the statistics are somewhat unclear), it's not MUCH more dangerous.

I would have flown somewhere on Sept. 12, 2001, without a second thought.




Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2011, 07:10:24 pm »
But also, if I started worrying about plane crashes whenever I flew, I'd have to start worrying about car crashes whenever I drove or rode in a car. Statistically speaking, I believe the latter are more likely.

I think about that, too.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2011, 09:19:37 pm »
I'm not big on flying, but that's because of the inconveniences and discomfort, not fear. I'm like you -- I figure I'll just leave my fate to Fate.

But also, if I started worrying about plane crashes whenever I flew, I'd have to start worrying about car crashes whenever I drove or rode in a car. Statistically speaking, I believe the latter are more likely. Even if you argue that, per mile flying or driving, flying is more dangerous (the statistics are somewhat unclear), it's not MUCH more dangerous.

The stats are 1 in 100 of being in an automobile accident. 

But that includes fender benders.

I don't believe there is the airline equivalent of a fender bender.

I'm more concerned about the stats on SURVIVING.  In that case, I'd say the car has it above the airplane in safety if something goes wrong.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2011, 05:39:01 pm »
The stats are 1 in 100 of being in an automobile accident. 

But that includes fender benders.

Yes, and the vast majority of airplane accidents involve small private planes, which you're not flying in.

Look, the statistics are complex. Here's another take, found in about five seconds of googling:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99845.htm

Quote
In the US, each year there are about 40,000 deaths per year in automobile accidents vs. about 200 in air transport. To put this in perspective, the chance of dying in an automobile accident is about 1000 times more than winning a typical state lottery in a year.

If we ignore property and bodily damage and focus on fatalities only, we should look at fatality rates per passenger mile traveled. This require some research. You can go to the National Transportation Safety board website (http://www.itsasafety.org) to do some research or look at a summary table here (http://hazmat.dot.gov/riskcompare.htm). According to the latter, each year in the US 1 out of 6800 drivers dies in an auto accident. The rate for airline passengers is 1 in 1.6 million. The same table shows that per passenger mile, air travel is safer by more than a factor of two. I doubt this last figure; I think it should be about 100x safer, because I guess we drive and fly the same number of miles (give or take a factor or 2-5) per year, yet fatalities are 200 times higher for autos than for airlines.

 

There may be counterarguments. I'm not going to take the time to google extensively to try to get to the bottom of it.

Because either way -- even if car travel is marginally safer -- it's all relative. If you're terrified of flying, for fear of dying in a crash, you should be at least pretty scared of driving. for the same reason.




Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #78 on: November 02, 2011, 06:35:29 pm »
Because either way -- even if car travel is marginally safer -- it's all relative. If you're terrified of flying, for fear of dying in a crash, you should be at least pretty scared of driving. for the same reason.

I have to admit that one of the things that does scare me is the idea of my dad and me both being killed at once in a crash when we're, say, driving to or from a holiday dinner with the cousins.  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #79 on: November 02, 2011, 07:35:21 pm »
Yes, and the vast majority of airplane accidents involve small private planes, which you're not flying in.

Look, the statistics are complex. Here's another take, found in about five seconds of googling:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99845.htm

There may be counterarguments. I'm not going to take the time to google extensively to try to get to the bottom of it.

Because either way -- even if car travel is marginally safer -- it's all relative. If you're terrified of flying, for fear of dying in a crash, you should be at least pretty scared of driving. for the same reason.

Yeah, I've read those numbers before, but the numbers are already skewed if they're comparing airplanes to cars.  They'd have to compare 80+ cars to one airplane to get comparable numbers.  e.g. 68,000 killed in traffic fatalities...were they all in one car?  A bus?

But again, let's talk survivability.  How many cars simply crashed and people walked away, versus how many planes crashed and people walked away?  That's what I'm interested in. 

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #80 on: November 02, 2011, 07:36:35 pm »
Why are bank wire transfers so expensive?!?!  It was $45 for each!  >:(


Thank the gods I only have two wire transfers to do for my hotels/B&Bs/Monastery stays.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #81 on: November 02, 2011, 07:41:21 pm »
Yeah, I've read those numbers before, but the numbers are already skewed if they're comparing airplanes to cars.  They'd have to compare 80+ cars to one airplane to get comparable numbers.  e.g. 68,000 killed in traffic fatalities...were they all in one car?  A bus?

But again, let's talk survivability.  How many cars simply crashed and people walked away, versus how many planes crashed and people walked away?  That's what I'm interested in. 

The statistics I quoted referred to deaths, not accidents. Humans killed, not vehicles crashed.


Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2011, 07:20:50 pm »
The statistics I quoted referred to deaths, not accidents. Humans killed, not vehicles crashed.

I know, but that's not what I'm interested in comparing. 

Odds are based on cars on the roads. How many are those per year?  Compared to how many airplanes and people in the air during the same time?  It's not really comparable.

That's what I mean by the numbers being skewed to begin with.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2011, 07:22:13 pm »
Ah, the joys of reservation making...Alitalia charged me twice for the same flight.  Now I have to dispute one of the charges.  Watch them apologize, say they'll withdraw one and then withdraw both and leave me without a flight.  >:(

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #84 on: November 03, 2011, 07:38:34 pm »
I know, but that's not what I'm interested in comparing. 

Odds are based on cars on the roads. How many are those per year?  Compared to how many airplanes and people in the air during the same time?  It's not really comparable.

That's what I mean by the numbers being skewed to begin with.

Well, you can be interested in comparing whatever you like. But the number of cars on the road at any given time, or people in a plane or planes in the sky -- all that stuff is an irrelevant distraction.

Simple deaths per mile traveled (per person, not per vehicle) is the relevant statistic if you're going to talk about the safety of car travel vs. air travel. And then, to make it even more relevant, subtract the air deaths that take place in small private planes if you're not going to be flying in one because, as I said, they're responsible for the vast majority of deaths.

Those numbers aren't skewed. They're very clear cut. They're the ones you use to figure out, say, if you're traveling from Dallas to Newark by plane vs. by car, which trip is more likely to kill you.


Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2011, 09:31:25 pm »
Well, you can be interested in comparing whatever you like. But the number of cars on the road at any given time, or people in a plane or planes in the sky -- all that stuff is an irrelevant distraction.

Simple deaths per mile traveled (per person, not per vehicle) is the relevant statistic if you're going to talk about the safety of car travel vs. air travel. And then, to make it even more relevant, subtract the air deaths that take place in small private planes if you're not going to be flying in one because, as I said, they're responsible for the vast majority of deaths.

Those numbers aren't skewed. They're very clear cut. They're the ones you use to figure out, say, if you're traveling from Dallas to Newark by plane vs. by car, which trip is more likely to kill you.

Look at it this way.  Put as many planes in the sky as there are cars on the road and then tell me if the stats on deaths in plane accidents go up.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2011, 12:49:26 am »
Look at it this way.  Put as many planes in the sky as there are cars on the road and then tell me if the stats on deaths in plane accidents go up.

Of course they would. Because there would be more people traveling in planes. Yet still, fewer people would die than die in planes than die in cars. Because proportionately, you're still less likely to die in plane travel than car travel. Cars are more dangerous than planes.

You seem to think I'm getting confused by the fact that people spend more time in cars than they do in planes. Don't worry, I get that. That's why we're not talking total deaths per year. We're not talking total accidents or total vehicles or anything else. We're talking deaths per mile traveled.

If you travel 100 miles in a car, any car, anywhere, at any time, regardless of how many cars on the road or how many people in your vehicle or anything else, you are more likely to die than you are traveling 100 miles in a plane.

Let's try it another way. For simplicity sake, let's say 10 people travel in planes a year, and they each travel 10 miles. So altogether, that's 100 miles. Let's say (hypothetically) that out of those, 1 person dies. Now let's say 100 people travel in cars every year, and they each travel 100 miles. Altogether, that's 10,000 miles. If cars and plane were equally dangerous, then 100 of those people would die, because altogether people are traveling 100 times more in cars than in planes.

But in fact, according to statistics, more than 100 people would die. Because there are more deaths per mile in cars.

Now let's try it still one more way: If people spent exactly as much time in planes as in cars, if there were exactly as many planes as cars, as many people in them, or however else you'd like to equalize it, more people would die in cars.

Plane travel seems more dangerous because you're in the air. But in fact, it's less.


Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2011, 12:35:09 pm »
Of course they would. Because there would be more people traveling in planes. Yet still, fewer people would die than die in planes than die in cars. Because proportionately, you're still less likely to die in plane travel than car travel. Cars are more dangerous than planes.

You seem to think I'm getting confused by the fact that people spend more time in cars than they do in planes. Don't worry, I get that. That's why we're not talking total deaths per year. We're not talking total accidents or total vehicles or anything else. We're talking deaths per mile traveled.

If you travel 100 miles in a car, any car, anywhere, at any time, regardless of how many cars on the road or how many people in your vehicle or anything else, you are more likely to die than you are traveling 100 miles in a plane.

Let's try it another way. For simplicity sake, let's say 10 people travel in planes a year, and they each travel 10 miles. So altogether, that's 100 miles. Let's say (hypothetically) that out of those, 1 person dies. Now let's say 100 people travel in cars every year, and they each travel 100 miles. Altogether, that's 10,000 miles. If cars and plane were equally dangerous, then 100 of those people would die, because altogether people are traveling 100 times more in cars than in planes.

But in fact, according to statistics, more than 100 people would die. Because there are more deaths per mile in cars.

Now let's try it still one more way: If people spent exactly as much time in planes as in cars, if there were exactly as many planes as cars, as many people in them, or however else you'd like to equalize it, more people would die in cars.

Plane travel seems more dangerous because you're in the air. But in fact, it's less.

You keep not connecting the dots.  Of course they would, so then that means planes are not proportionately safer, there's just fewer of them flying than cars driving.  Put as many planes in the sky as cars on the roads, or put as few cars on the roads as there are planes in the sky and see what your numbers tell you then.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2011, 01:45:53 pm »
You keep not connecting the dots.  Of course they would, so then that means planes are not proportionately safer, there's just fewer of them flying than cars driving.  Put as many planes in the sky as cars on the roads, or put as few cars on the roads as there are planes in the sky and see what your numbers tell you then.

Delalluvia, I feel like you didn't read anything beyond the first two sentences in my previous post. Because after that I count five times that I explained it, five different ways. With examples and everything.

But I'm still not ready to give up! Let's try again: Yes, more people per year die in cars now, and the fact that there are more cars on the road is one factor. But it's only PART of the reason. The other part is that, even if you control for the number of cars vs. planes, driving is STILL more dangerous.

That's why when people analyze these statistics, they DO NOT say, "Oh look, 300,000 people died in cars last year, but only 500 people died in planes, so cars must be 600 times more dangerous than planes."

Nope. They understand that there are more cars than planes, so that comparing deaths per year in each would be comparing apples to oranges.

So instead, they say, "For every 1,000 miles traveled by an American in a car last year, 10 people died. For every 1,000 miles traveled by an American in a plane last year, only 8 people died. So cars are 20% more dangerous than planes." (I'm making up the numbers; the point is that car deaths per 1,000 miles are higher.)

That holds constant the number of total people and total vehicles, so the comparison is apples to apples. The number of cars or vehicles in the road or air no longer affects the compared statistics. And what they find when they control for that is that cars are more dangerous.




Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2011, 07:00:33 pm »
 :laugh:

No, no no, I really really read your posts.

It's just you make statements and then try to qualify them, but to me, the qualifiers don't detract from the original fact.

You did it again here with this:

Yes, more people per year die in cars now, and the fact that there are more cars on the road is one factor. But it's only PART of the reason.

I agree.  It is a factor.  But to me, it's the MAIN factor that the stats are skewed.  To me, nothing else will make plane to car deaths per mile stats comparable until that is adjusted.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 11:03:49 pm by delalluvia »

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #90 on: November 05, 2011, 07:04:58 pm »
Ah, let's see.

I went to the main airline website and made a puddle jump reservation.

Tuesday my bank notified me that they charged me twice.
Thursday my bank rep told me that it was on my account twice, but both were still pending.  When they finally went through, I could dispute one.
Today, I call my bank and find out both transactions are gone.  Not reversed, just gone, like they were never there.
I called the airline, they still have my ticket reserved.

 >:( >:(

Now what?

The airline will either charge me again or more likely cancel my ticket and not tell me because I didn't "pay for it".

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2011, 12:32:57 am »
:laugh:

No, no no, I really really read your posts.

It's just you make statements and then try to qualify them, but to me, the qualifiers don't detract from the original fact.

You did it again here with this:

Yes, more people per year die in cars now, and the fact that there are more cars on the road is one factor. But it's only PART of the reason.

I agree.  It is a factor.  But to me, it's the MAIN factor that the stats are skewed.  To me, nothing else will make plane to car deaths per mile stats comparable until that is adjusted.




Yes, and the way they "adjust" it is by calculating the statistics in deaths per mile rather than deaths per year. Simple math. And so much easier than putting a million more planes in the sky or taking a million cars off the road.




« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 11:46:34 am by serious crayons »

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2011, 12:09:40 pm »

Yes, and the way they "adjust" it is by calculating the statistics in deaths per mile rather than deaths per year. Simple math. And so much easier than putting a million more planes in the sky or taking a million cars off the road.

But it's not adjusted.  Deaths per mile based on what?  The current air and car traffic.  And that's already not equitable.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2011, 07:34:18 pm »
But it's not adjusted.  Deaths per mile based on what?  The current air and car traffic.  And that's already not equitable.

Yes, deaths per mile based on the current air and car traffic. And guess what! All other things being equal, the deaths per mile would stay the same for each if the air traffic increased enough to equalize them number of plane and car trips. Except all other things wouldn't be quite equal: The sky would be more crowded, so accidents might increase somewhat simply because there are more planes in a limited space and they'd be more likely to crash into each other. That would definitely be cause for concern -- IF the air traffic ever suddenly increased by that amount. It's NOT something to worry about, nor something that affects the stats, if you're flying under current conditions.

So the way to calculate it is not by accidents/deaths per year but by deaths per mile. If you were traveling to Philadelphia, and you could either go by car or by plane, which way would you be more likely to die? And the answer is, by car.

There might be other advantages to going by car: it's cheaper, you see more scenery, it's more comfortable. But safer? No.

But since you're someone who says you're uncomfortable about the safety of flying, you seem very committed to believing that's the more dangerous mode of transportation. And the fact is, you're welcome to believe anything you want.



« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 09:21:24 pm by serious crayons »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2011, 09:52:08 pm »
Does anybody know whether or not it's true that more accidents involving planes happen on the ground than in the air?  ???

I guess that question doesn't really help here, does it?  8)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #95 on: November 06, 2011, 11:53:54 pm »
Does anybody know whether or not it's true that more accidents involving planes happen on the ground than in the air?  ???

I guess that question doesn't really help here, does it?  8)

When you say "on the ground," do you include planes that were in the air until something went wrong, but weren't actually damaged until they made contact with the ground? In that case, I'd say that's definitely true. But if you mean planes that are moving around on the tarmac, then I'd say no.

Just off the top of my head, of course.




Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #96 on: November 07, 2011, 09:59:50 am »
When you say "on the ground," do you include planes that were in the air until something went wrong, but weren't actually damaged until they made contact with the ground?

You mean like jumping out of a plane in flight without a parachute? It isn't the fall that kills you, it's the abrupt stop?

Quote
But if you mean planes that are moving around on the tarmac, then I'd say no.

Yes, I meant planes on the tarmac.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #97 on: November 07, 2011, 11:05:59 am »
You mean like jumping out of a plane in flight without a parachute? It isn't the fall that kills you, it's the abrupt stop?

 :laugh: Exactly.

(OT, but I once read an expert column about how, when Spider Man saves a falling Mary Jane in the first Spider man movie, she would have died even if she didn't hit the ground. It's the abrupt stop that's the problem.)

Back to air safety, I think the vast majority of plane deaths involve little private planes. A couple of years ago, a family my sons knew from school lost four members -- father and three sons -- flying a small plane with the father piloting.

But big plane crashes get a lot more publicity and, thus, attention. And as humans we tend to be much more afraid of things that capture our attention.

That same phenomenon explains why parents are more afraid of their child getting kidnapped while walking home from school than of their child getting hurt while riding in a car, even though statistically speaking the latter is far more likely.



Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,475
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #98 on: November 07, 2011, 11:57:09 am »
Sorry for OT here, I'll keep it short:

What the hell happened to your avatar, Katherine?
Is it The Mummy Came upon a Bear or sumpn?
I can't make out what it is, even with glasses.


And my attempt at the topic:

Statistics about car crashs vs. plane crashs don't make much difference. Fear isn't always rational (or even mostly not retional). I don't care how few planes crash, I'm just afraid the one I'm sitting in could be the exception of the rule (when it gets shaky, for me it's the turbulances that get me, otherwise I'm doing okay).

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #99 on: November 07, 2011, 01:29:46 pm »
Sorry for OT here, I'll keep it short:

What the hell happened to your avatar, Katherine?
Is it The Mummy Came upon a Bear or sumpn?
I can't make out what it is, even with glasses.

 :laugh:  It's a skullish face made entirely of crayons. I guess it is a little unnerving. I'll try to switch it when I get a chance.
 

Quote
And my attempt at the topic:

Statistics about car crashs vs. plane crashs don't make much difference. Fear isn't always rational (or even mostly not retional). I don't care how few planes crash, I'm just afraid the one I'm sitting in could be the exception of the rule (when it gets shaky, for me it's the turbulances that get me, otherwise I'm doing okay).

Oh, I totally agree. People fear all kinds of things that are statistically unlikely; that particular fear just resonates with them, somehow. When I was a kid, I was terrified that someone was going to break into my parents' house and attack me. Never mind that that had never, ever happened (and hasn't since) in the middle-class suburb where I lived, that the odds against it were astronomical. Every night, I lay there watching the door of my room, waiting in terror for an intruder to appear.

Other people are afraid of snakes, heights, small places, etc.



Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #100 on: November 07, 2011, 02:27:28 pm »
When I was a kid, I was terrified that someone was going to break into my parents' house and attack me. Never mind that that had never, ever happened (and hasn't since) in the middle-class suburb where I lived, that the odds against it were astronomical. Every night, I lay there watching the door of my room, waiting in terror for an intruder to appear.

Sounds to me like very probably, as a very small child, you were abducted from your bed in the middle of the night by aliens, who gave you a medical exam and then returned you. The memory was buried, but you still had the conscious terror that something would come back and get you in the night.  8)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Monika

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,586
  • We are all the same. Women, men, gay, straight
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #101 on: November 07, 2011, 02:54:59 pm »

Back to air safety, I think the vast majority of plane deaths involve little private planes. A couple of years ago, a family my sons knew from school lost four members -- father and three sons -- flying a small plane with the father piloting.

OT, but this was a strange coincidence. I was reading about the Bucklin family just the other day. Very tragic.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2011, 07:49:43 pm »


Statistics about car crashs vs. plane crashs don't make much difference. Fear isn't always rational (or even mostly not retional). I don't care how few planes crash, I'm just afraid the one I'm sitting in could be the exception of the rule (when it gets shaky, for me it's the turbulances that get me, otherwise I'm doing okay).

Exactly.  It's like the lotto.  No matter how ridiculous the odds, SOMEone does get the hit.  So it doesn't matter how many planes have flown safely.  The fact that so many have flown safely without a major crash statistically means a bad crash is overdue.

It's like getting insurance and they ask you if you want flood insurance for the once in 100 years flood.  You say no, because the odds are ridiculous.  However, sometimes, sadly for you, that 1 in 100 years flood just happens to occur tomorrow, but won't happen again for 99 years.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #103 on: March 21, 2012, 03:06:57 pm »
Grrrrrrrrrr

 >:( >:( >:( >:(

I am 10 days away from my long delayed, Italian vacation...I'm thrilled and excited and...in the last 4 days, three people who sit close to me at work or with whom I interact on a daily basis have come down with flu-like maladies.

Two are home sick today.

I can't get sick, I can't get sick, I can't get sick.

I've had a flu shot, but so did one of the people who is sick with whom I interact daily.

Incubation periods are usually 7-10 days, which means I might break with this strange cold/flu a few days before I leave.

Up until now, NO ONE had been sick around me - I almost made a clean getaway...

I'm downing zinc and Vit C, trying to stay positive and happy, hoping to shore up my immune system, doctors have written me preemptive antibiotics, but they do nothing for a virus.

I can't get sick, I can't get sick, I can't get sick, I can't get sick.

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #104 on: March 21, 2012, 03:56:17 pm »
Doctors have written me preemptive antibiotics, but they do nothing for a virus.

What about antivirals?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_treatment

"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,475
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #105 on: March 22, 2012, 01:43:02 am »
You won't get sick, you won't get sick, you won't get sick!

What are your plans now for Italy? Will you do the convent staying thingie? (Can't remember the details right now, sorry)
Good to see you, btw, I've missed you. :)

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2012, 05:43:22 am »
Finger crossed for you! Where in Italy you off too?
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2012, 01:12:20 pm »
Thanks for the support guys.  Things have just been crazy at home and work for the last month or so and I haven't been online much except for checking my e-mails and trip planning.

Yes, I'm on anti-virals - started those day before yesterday.  Yes, I got my Xanax and a prescription for heavy duty antibiotics filled - the first for my fear of flying and stress, the 2nd in case I come down sick on the road.

My boss who came down with the worst virus has been out all week.  As of yesterday he still had 101 F degree fever and couldn't shake it.  :-\

Yes, I'm trying to keep my immune system up and think positive happy thoughts - but work has been so incredibly stressful with everyone new coming in and my immediate boss leaving and all the work that needs to be done before I leave...I had planned on using these last two weeks to catch up everything and set up the people I support with reminders and updates for the next coming month while I'm gone, but then two candidates got scheduled to arrive yesterday and Monday for 2 day tours and I got drafted to make interview appointments, arrange airfare, car service, hotel and escort all over campus and that has taken up the bulk of my time so that I'll probably have to do MY work at home so that I can be finished by Friday.  It's a nightmare.

But I've already come down with my 2nd ear infection  - doctors are at a loss at how to explain me coming down with swimmer's ear when I don't swim and have not changed my daily routine.  

And of course stress lowers your immune system, so I'm trying not to let it get to me and I'm taking a Xanax as needed.

Yes, I'm still staying at convents and monasteries and agriturismos.  I'm very excited about that.  I hope they will be cleaner than staying at hostels and cheap hotels.

I'm Venice-Florence-Vernazza-Siena-Rome-Pompeii-Positano then flying home from Rome.

I'm interested that the weather on the coasts will be much cooler than inland.

I have a 1:1 tour guide in Rome.  American working in Rome for the last 7 years.  He was recommended to me, but has been completely flakey in his contact with me.  So I don't know about him.  We're to meet at the Pantheon.  He will have an Italian flag so I'll know it's him.

Venice according to the weather reports I've seen is supposedly very chilly in the evenings this time of year, so is Pompeii and Positano, one's on the Adriatic coast, the other on the Tryrhenian coast.  Rome and Florence and Tuscany are warmer.

I've read in Italy they turn off the heat at certain times of year and I think I'm arriving just as they turn off the heat.  I wonder how ascetic the nuns and monks live, and if I'll be sleeping in my leather jacket for warmth.  We'll see.

But that's just part of the adventure.  I just don't want to do it sick.  :(

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,253
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2012, 05:39:36 pm »
Great trip! I've been to most of those places, and they are fabulous. Wait until you ride the road to Positano. Quite the harrowing adventure.

Is your guide in Rome by any chance with Rome Walks tours? Is his name Greg? I know this would be a huge coincidence, but I had a guide named Greg who was American and had lived in Italy for years. He was great.






Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #109 on: March 24, 2012, 06:15:02 pm »
Great trip! I've been to most of those places, and they are fabulous. Wait until you ride the road to Positano. Quite the harrowing adventure.

Is your guide in Rome by any chance with Rome Walks tours? Is his name Greg? I know this would be a huge coincidence, but I had a guide named Greg who was American and had lived in Italy for years. He was great.

 :laugh:

No, but you know?  I'll keep his name and company in my notes in case my guy flakes out.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #110 on: March 24, 2012, 09:07:29 pm »
You WILL NOT get sick before or during this trip. You WILL NOT get sick before or during this trip. You WILL NOT get sick before or during this trip. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,049
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #111 on: March 26, 2012, 02:29:50 am »



   You are going to go to Italy and have a wonderful time.  Meet lots of interesting people, and see a whole country, that
has beauty and culture to share.



     Beautiful mind

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #112 on: March 27, 2012, 09:23:11 am »
   You are going to go to Italy and have a wonderful time.  Meet lots of interesting people, and see a whole country, that
has beauty and culture to share.

And don't forget the food. ... The food. ...  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #113 on: March 27, 2012, 06:35:33 pm »
And don't forget the food. ... The food. ...  ;D

And wine  8)

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #114 on: April 27, 2012, 08:06:32 pm »
I'm back!  ;D















I never got sick!  :)

Despite the one thing I could not control and was a disappointment - the weather - it was a marvelous, life-perspective changing trip.

I was about 3 weeks too early for a sunny Italian spring.  Except for 5 gorgeous sunny days, the weather was cold, rainy and/or overcast.  I only saw the sun in Tuscany the day I was leaving.  Easter Sunday in Tuscany, a violent storm blew through.  Most days it was clear at sunrise and sunset, but the majority of the day it was cold, windy and overcast.  Some days, it was pouring cold rain.  I should have mailed all my summer weather clothes home.  I was in sweaters, pants, boots and leather coat 98% of the time.

Note:  most places in Rome do not have private heating, therefore they get it from government sources and during the springtime, despite the fact it's 40 degrees outside, they only give you 3 hours of heat a day.  Needless to say, at night I was covered in blankets.  

I was out of my hotel/convent/monastery every morning at 8:30 - 9 am and didn't get back until 8-9 pm at night (except for my Tuscany stay).  I was gratified that I was able to walk and stand 12 hours a day with a short sit down for lunch.

And don't let anyone tell you otherwise, Rome is built on 7 hills.  It was up and down anywhere you walked.  

I don't know how the gray-haired retirees handle tours of Italy.  Do they drop them off at the door of sites so they don't have to walk much?

My goodness, why aren't I living in Rome?

I could walk down the street where my convent was located, turn left and then at the next corner, look up the road and see the Colosseum.  Bella, bellisima.

I would, in a second, live in Venice or Rome and be happy the rest of my life.  While undeniably gorgeous, Tuscany is too remote, the towns too small.

Naples is the armpit of Italy though.  Reminded me of not-so-great places in Mexico I've seen.

I instantly got a couple of traditions going the minute I landed:

1) eating gelato in every city I was in

2) getting lost

In each city I was in, I spent on average 2 hours lost.

Italy, like France and England, put street signs on the corners of buildings.  Unfortunately, especially in Italy, they don't tend to put them on EVERY street corner.  You could walk a quarter mile before seeing a street sign and realizing you were on the wrong street.

So a lot of those hours were spent in frustration, precious touring time lost while being lost.  But I did see some truly magical places while lost - a row of blooming orange trees on the Via Consular in Rome and almost anywhere on the islands of San Polo, Dorsoduro and Cannregio in Venice.

Venice, maddeningly enough, doesn't have an address directory.  Their addresses are written down like someone from New York City telling you to come visit them at 108 Manhattan Island.  

 ??? ???

WHERE on the island?  

Many shops in Venice I saw that I made plans to return to I was never able to find again.

I also had adventures - missing trains, getting on wrong trains, getting ripped off by taxi drivers, bus ticket sellers and postage stamp sellers, not having a ride to catch my train (I didn't realize the Monday after Easter is a holiday in Italy) sitting in the warm sun in the square of the town of Pienza wondering how the heck I'm going to get to Siena to catch my train to Rome with no bus service in a town with no taxi drivers.  Sitting on the train 15 minutes outside of Rome one evening while coming back from a day trip to Pompeii, wondering why we're not moving.  Eerily, like my train trip to Chicago, they made announcements as to why we were stopped, but they didn't say them in English and no one in my class spoke English or Spanish.  I understood 3 words "Person", "ambulance" and "50 minutes".  So either the train hit someone who needed an ambulance or someone ON the train needed an ambulance.  We sat on the track for 2 hours before making the final 15 minutes into Rome.

Food was excellent no matter where I went.  Wine was fresh fresh fresh.

Because I look Italian, people didn't cut me much slack as they probably would have a white tourist.  But Spanish and Italian are so similar, I didn't have much problem with the language issue, even when nuns and taxi drivers spoke neither English OR Spanish.

I ran into austerity protests on the Piazza della Repubblica in Rome, dodged businessmen from Capri and Siena who tried to pick me up (if they had been better looking I'd have more of a story for you there), swooned over the art and scenary and good looking men of Rome.  I even lusted over a cute priest and Swiss Guardsman I saw.

I'll post more as I go through more of my pictures.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,919
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #115 on: April 27, 2012, 09:44:47 pm »
Welcome home!  :D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,049
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2012, 02:36:23 am »

   Seems like you had a wonderful trip, and took in most of the things you were looking for..
I suppose even getting lost in a city like Rome, or Venice can be rewarding...sounds like you had a great trip.

   So glad you didn't get sick...    :)



     Beautiful mind

Offline Kelda

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,683
  • Zorbing....
    • Keldas Facebook Page!
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2012, 04:24:13 am »
Welcome home!
Sounds like you had a real adventure!
I have some very similar pictures from my trip to Italy back in 02.
http://www.idbrass.com

Please use the following links when shopping online -It will help us raise money without costing you a penny.

http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/idb

http://idb.easysearch.org.uk/

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,475
Re: Anyone been to Italy?
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2012, 05:26:48 am »
I'm back!  ;D


Welcome back home! :-*

Quote
I never got sick!  :)

Seems our mantras have worked. ;)


Quote

Wonderful pictures, all of them. The above looks like a postcard.




Quote
Despite the one thing I could not control and was a disappointment - the weather - it was a marvelous, life-perspective changing trip.


At least you weren't supposed to control the weather, nobody got all over your behind for it. ;) ;D

 :D
Glad to hear you had a wonderful time.



Quote
I instantly got a couple of traditions going the minute I landed:

1) eating gelato in every city I was in

2) getting lost

In each city I was in, I spent on average 2 hours lost.

Italy, like France and England, put street signs on the corners of buildings.  Unfortunately, especially in Italy, they don't tend to put them on EVERY street corner.  You could walk a quarter mile before seeing a street sign and realizing you were on the wrong street.

So a lot of those hours were spent in frustration, precious touring time lost while being lost.  But I did see some truly magical places while lost - a row of blooming orange trees on the Via Consular in Rome and almost anywhere on the islands of San Polo, Dorsoduro and Cannregio in Venice.

I also had adventures - missing trains, getting on wrong trains, getting ripped off by taxi drivers, bus ticket sellers and postage stamp sellers, not having a ride to catch my train (I didn't realize the Monday after Easter is a holiday in Italy) sitting in the warm sun in the square of the town of Pienza wondering how the heck I'm going to get to Siena to catch my train to Rome with no bus service in a town with no taxi drivers.  Sitting on the train 15 minutes outside of Rome one evening while coming back from a day trip to Pompeii, wondering why we're not moving.  Eerily, like my train trip to Chicago, they made announcements as to why we were stopped, but they didn't say them in English and no one in my class spoke English or Spanish.  I understood 3 words "Person", "ambulance" and "50 minutes".  So either the train hit someone who needed an ambulance or someone ON the train needed an ambulance.  We sat on the track for 2 hours before making the final 15 minutes into Rome.


All the little adventures and misadventures make traveling so rewarding, even if they can be frustrating at the time.


Quote
I'll post more as I go through more of my pictures.

Looking forward to more pics and stories!
WB again :)