Author Topic: Letīs celebrate men in dresses  (Read 59895 times)

Offline Monika

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Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« on: May 11, 2011, 07:48:13 am »
The third pic is one of Swedenīs most famous drag show artists.

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 07:50:44 am »
Another famous Swede

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2011, 07:52:58 am »
Adam Lambert back in the days

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2011, 07:57:41 am »
Ru Paul

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2011, 08:03:47 am »
You remember this movie?

Offline Meryl

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2011, 09:52:28 am »
Dahling, what a great idea for a thread!  :-*







The one, the only Lypsinka
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2011, 10:48:02 am »
Mark Jacobs in a skirt.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2011, 12:30:29 pm »
OMG, don't get me started on this topic!!

David Bowie:
The Man Who Sold the World


From the video "Boys Keep Swinging"



Placebo (Brian Molko):




« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 05:02:20 pm by atz75 »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Meryl

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2011, 12:40:18 pm »




Barry Humphries as Dame Edna Everage
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2011, 12:44:58 pm »
More artsy ones. By photographer Roberto Foddai.



Offline Meryl

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2011, 12:45:30 pm »


Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2011, 12:49:48 pm »
James Franco

Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2011, 01:51:00 pm »
What can I say... what awesome thread. I just love the photos you are posting.

Offline louisev

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2011, 02:14:45 pm »
I'm sorry to say Jake is never ever going to make a big hit on the drag circuit.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2011, 06:40:01 pm »


Varla Jean Merman, the love child of Ethel Merman and Ernest Borgnine

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 06:43:39 pm »


Miss Richfield 1981

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 06:45:13 pm »


Hedda Lettuce

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2011, 06:46:46 pm »


The "Hat Sisters"

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2011, 06:49:36 pm »




"Priscilla" on Broadway

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2011, 06:51:06 pm »
I'm sorry to say Jake is never ever going to make a big hit on the drag circuit.



I dunno. In that get-up he could make a tolerable Edith Piaf. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2011, 06:53:22 pm »


Miss Richfield 1981

Unmistakeably P'town. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2011, 07:05:17 pm »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2011, 10:06:18 pm »
Well, it's interesting that a lot of the photos posted here are drag queens and satire (i.e. Jake on SNL).  Camp is a really important thing, so I'm definitely not dismissing it.  

But, to me it's interesting to think about the question of men and dresses on a different level.  Women fought for the right to wear pants for a long time.  And, there are men who would like to be able to wear skirts/dresses without ridicule.  It's about having the choice to wear a dress if you want to regardless of what sex you happen to be.

I remember there was a boy in my high school (not gay or bisexual as far as I know.  He was more of a punk-hipster than anything else)... who really wanted to be able to wear skirts to school.  He kind of waged his own campaign about it... wearing skirts to school quite frequently and also getting into a lot of trouble for it on occasion.  The fact that he got into so much trouble (and he wasn't wearing anything immodest or revealing... usually knee length black skirts) really emphasized how unfair and stupid dress codes and gendered dress codes can be.

When Bowie wore his dress on the cover of The Man Who Sold the World in 1971, that cover was censored in many places so that an alternative cover had to be produced for certain markets. One of the interesting things about Bowie's dress from the cover (and others like it) is that it was a "man's dress" designed specifically for a man's body.  He's not technically in "drag".  He did his first tour of the U.S. in his "men's" dresses like this.




But, it's interesting that the most androgynous moments are sometimes just head shots with the appropriate attitude.



When Placebo did their first shows in the U.S. Brian was very much in his dress-wearing mode.  This is a YouTube of Bowie performing one of Placebo's songs with them in the late 1990s (and Brian is in a dress here). I think Bowie saw a lot of himself (and of Marc Bolan) in Placebo.  Placebo opened for Bowie for two different tours in the 90s.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GqnDROi6l4[/youtube]


And, when Brian Molko wears his dresses, he does occasionally use the word "drag", but he doesn't really mean it in a camp or "funny" way at all.  It's really just about Brian being able to wear a dress if he wants to - and to look really good when he does so (and to challenge the sexual assumptions of people looking at him).   When he wears pants (which is usually) it's important to note that he's still usually wearing women's pants... many of his shirts are women's shirts too.  So wearing clothing designed for women isn't just about wearing dresses.


Brian's  another one where his most androgynous moments don't always involve a dress.


(well the second one is a dress, but it's not evident in the cropping of the pic)


One of the songs from Placebo's first album is called "Lady of the Flowers" and is based on Jean Genet's 1943 book called Our Lady of the Flowers.  The Genet book is about gay subculture in Paris and features many male characters who go by female names and wear women's clothing.  Here's a YouTube of an early performance of this song... one of the best rare Placebo YouTubes out there IMO - a great example of the mystery and atmospherics of early Placebo shows.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svT-W4bh0BQ&feature=related[/youtube]




« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:41:36 am by atz75 »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 12:37:00 am »
But, to me it's interesting to think about the question of men and dresses on a different level.  Women fought for the right to wear pants for a long time.  And, there are men who would like to be able to wear skirts/dresses without ridicule.  It's about having the choice to wear a dress if you want to regardless of what sex you happen to be.

Yeah, there are many reasons why men wear dresses. In many parts of the world men do wear dresses and itīs seen as "normal" but in the western world it seems to be very provocative indeed. I like to idea of men wearing dresses as an everyday outfit, too - if theyīd like.
Regarding drag - Iīm not sure it always is just about being "camp", I think it might be more complex than that for some.


Charlotte von Mahlsdorf
The pic below is of a person who identyfied himself as a woman (so perhaps technically wrong for this thread). She spent her last years not very far from where I live and I met her once. Very interesteing individual. You might have heard of her since there was a play written based on her life called "I Am My Own Wife"
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 03:07:43 am by Buffymon »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2011, 12:48:57 am »
^Wow, that really is interesting. :)

Yeah, I think of it as a gender equality issue.

 Why should men not be allowed to wear skirts?  There may be some kind of gender stigma that it's "girly"... but that brings us right back to the idea that the feminine is somehow "lesser" compared to the conventional masculine stereotypes.  When a man wants to embrace something typically seen as feminine, it's somehow a degradation or lowering.

The men who are actively defying this gender problem are really interesting IMO.  And, I think must have some kind of interesting empathy for women or understanding that the feminine is actually equal to the masculine (which is obviously true) but not often recognized in conventional society.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2011, 02:27:33 am »
Yet another take on men in dresses:

Männerballett
(Mens' Ballett)















Männerballett is a very old and very typical part of carnival in Germany. Nobody knows the exact origins, but it dates as least as far back as 1648.

It can be camp, it can be artsy, it can be frivolous (think The Full Monty), it can be out-and-out funny. Most balletts emphasize on the fun part, but some take great pride in the precision of their dancing performance and work really hard. There's even a national association for it, and national championships.





Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2011, 02:37:01 am »
Apart from performers, men wearing womens's clothes are common on carnival. No carnival party without guys in dresses, no carnival parade without male spectators dressed up in female attire.









No, it's not CSD, it's carnival. :)


Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2011, 03:54:39 am »
Brad Pitt on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2011, 08:54:51 am »
I posted a pic of Marc Jacobs earlier. He has experimented a lot with dresses for men

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2011, 09:04:44 am »
Noxeema Jackson: When a straight man puts on a dress and gets his sexual kicks, he is a transvestite. When a man is a woman trapped in a man's body and has a little operation he is a transsexual.  When a gay man has way too much fashion sense for one gender he is a drag queen.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2011, 11:44:45 am »

Poor Patrick Swayze. He would have made a great dominatrix.  :'(
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2011, 11:48:02 am »
"Priscilla" on Broadway

So who are the hunks on the left and the right? Chorus boys or principal players?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2011, 11:54:22 am »
     I think we have forgotten a subject The KILT.



         

Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2011, 11:56:55 am »
           

Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2011, 11:58:21 am »

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2011, 11:59:17 am »
So who are the hunks on the left and the right? Chorus boys or principal players?

Those are the three principals in the show: Tick/Mitzi, Bernadette and Adam/Felicia (as in Felicia Jollygoodfellow).  

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2011, 12:00:48 pm »
Here's Glee's Kurt in his prom kilt:


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2011, 12:07:56 pm »
Here's Glee's Kurt in his prom kilt:



Is he wearing trousers under his kilt?  :o
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2011, 12:10:00 pm »
Those are the three principals in the show: Tick/Mitzi, Bernadette and Adam/Felicia (as in Felicia Jollygoodfellow).  

Thanks. I should do a Google search, see if I can find out who these people are. The one on the right has thighs of death. ...  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2011, 12:14:01 pm »
I think we have forgotten a subject The KILT.

Actually, in the very first post, the guy in the center-left photo (Ewan McGregor? Looks like him a little.) is clearly wearing a kilt, rather than a dress or a skirt.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2011, 12:16:22 pm »
^Yeah, I was thinking that the recent episode of Glee was relevant here! :)

 Yes, I've always understood that a kilt isn't supposed to be called a "skirt."  But, to me, it's a matter of semantics... because, in its physical aspects, clearly a kilt *is* a skirt.  The word "skirt" can clearly be provocative.

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Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2011, 12:30:21 pm »
The word "skirt" can clearly be provocative.


Oh boy yeah

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2011, 12:31:57 pm »
Indian wedding dress


Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2011, 12:36:56 pm »
Someone mentioned the movie The Crying Game in another thread. I have to watch that movie again soon to see if I still like it as much as I did back when. I had those lyrics stuck in my head for weeks afterwards....I know all there is to know about the crying game...

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2011, 01:27:04 pm »
Indian wedding dress

Is that really a dress? I know nothing about its construction, but to me it looks like a coat of some kind worn over trousers.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2011, 01:35:51 pm »
Yes, I've always understood that a kilt isn't supposed to be called a "skirt."  But, to me, it's a matter of semantics... because, in its physical aspects, clearly a kilt *is* a skirt.  The word "skirt" can clearly be provocative.

Interesting to note that even the edition of Webster's that we currently have in my office actually defines kilt as "a knee-length pleated skirt usu. of tartan. ..."

However, I think I know a number of Celtic purist historical reenactors (many, no doubt, inspired by Braveheart) who would take great exception to that definition. To these people, a kilt is actually a quite long piece of fabric that gets wrapped around the body, and one end of it actually ends up being tossed over the shoulder. Dictionaries and popular usage notwithstanding, to these people a kilt is not something that looks like it should be worn by a Catholic schoolgirl.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline louisev

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2011, 01:44:42 pm »
I would defer to Kelda, our native expert on all things Scottish, however, Wiki does distinguish between the kilt and the full length garment known as the 'great kilt' which has the over-shoulder portion.  The kilt part IS essentially - a skirt.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2011, 01:58:33 pm »
I would defer to Kelda, our native expert on all things Scottish, however, Wiki does distinguish between the kilt and the full length garment known as the 'great kilt' which has the over-shoulder portion.  The kilt part IS essentially - a skirt.

 ;D The folks I know generally consider only a great kilt to be a real kilt. And since they're all generally about twice as tall as me and also twice as broad, I'm not about to contradict them!  :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2011, 02:00:31 pm »
;D The folks I know generally consider only a great kilt to be a real kilt. And since they're all generally about twice as tall as me and also twice as broad, I'm not about to contradict them!  :laugh:
:laugh:

Offline Sason

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2011, 03:13:01 pm »
I dunno. In that get-up he could make a tolerable Edith Piaf. ...

I do think he needs to shave his chest to be convincing.....

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2011, 03:30:49 pm »
I do think he needs to shave his chest to be convincing.....

You're probably correct. I never saw Edith Piaf's chest. ...  ;D

I'll volunteer to do the shaving for him. ...  8)
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Offline Sason

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2011, 03:35:28 pm »
You're probably correct. I never saw Edith Piaf's chest. ...  ;D


Me neither, but I have a hard time believing it was hairy....    ::) ;D


Quote
I'll volunteer to do the shaving for him. ...  8)

Somehow, I don't find it hard to believe that...   ::)  :laugh:


Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline Kelda

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2011, 03:51:19 pm »
           

Wowser.. .like him in a kilt!
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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2011, 03:52:45 pm »
Is that really a dress? I know nothing about its construction, but to me it looks like a coat of some kind worn over trousers.

Yeah I'd agree from my visit to India. Not a dress...
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2011, 03:55:32 pm »
^Yeah, I was thinking that the recent episode of Glee was relevant here! :)

 Yes, I've always understood that a kilt isn't supposed to be called a "skirt."  But, to me, it's a matter of semantics... because, in its physical aspects, clearly a kilt *is* a skirt.  The word "skirt" can clearly be provocative.


I would defer to Kelda, our native expert on all things Scottish, however, Wiki does distinguish between the kilt and the full length garment known as the 'great kilt' which has the over-shoulder portion.  The kilt part IS essentially - a skirt.

Yes Scots would never call a kilt a skirt although for description purposes thats essentially what it is. A kilt is a mnaly thing.. skirt is essentially a feminine expression.

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Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2011, 04:27:49 pm »
Yes Scots would never call a kilt a skirt although for description purposes thats essentially what it is. A kilt is a mnaly thing.. skirt is essentially a feminine expression.



Good looking group!  :)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2011, 07:03:35 pm »
Good looking group!  :)

My thinking, too. Some fine, manly looking men.  :)
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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2011, 07:05:36 pm »
My thinking, too. Some fine, manly looking men.  :)

Yes, indeed!

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2011, 08:33:28 pm »
I remember seeing pics of Sting in this kilt a few years ago:

Ich bin ein Brokie...

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2011, 12:00:48 am »
I remember seeing pics of Sting in this kilt a few years ago:


Sting is one of those people who looks good in anything

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2011, 12:03:41 am »
Eddie Izzard used to wear skirts and high heels on stage and made a career out of it.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2011, 02:03:52 am »
This is Ewan and his brother in kilts



Here's another one just because I love him



The below is Ewan in a dress.  I couldn't post the pic because the webmaster prefers that fans don't and I don't want to piss the guy off because I love his site

http://www.bestofewan.com/100829__00dk48d/BoEM_sg21.jpg

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2011, 02:16:15 am »

When Bowie wore his dress on the cover of The Man Who Sold the World in 1971, that cover was censored in many places so that an alternative cover had to be produced for certain markets. One of the interesting things about Bowie's dress from the cover (and others like it) is that it was a "man's dress" designed specifically for a man's body.  He's not technically in "drag".  He did his first tour of the U.S. in his "men's" dresses like this.



Bowie's 'dress' actually looks more like an overlong frock coat or priest cassock than a dress.
  


Offline Kelda

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2011, 04:21:55 am »
Good looking group!  :)

My thinking, too. Some fine, manly looking men.  :)

Why thankyou! Callum, his dad and bestman will be pleased!!
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Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2011, 07:56:24 am »
Yes Scots would never call a kilt a skirt although for description purposes thats essentially what it is. A kilt is a mnaly thing.. skirt is essentially a feminine expression.



YOUR PHOTOS are just adoreable. So Beutiful... your dress is amazing. And with the snow in the backround its just perfect.

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2011, 07:57:51 am »
Do women wear kilts, by the way?

*Kelda - our very own kilt expert?*

Offline Kelda

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2011, 08:30:59 am »
Thanks Sophy! So sweet!

Monika...

They do but much much less often.

There are the women's kilts used for country dancing (although for adult country dancers often its just a sash instead) plus they would wear a kilt if they were in a pipe band just like the men.. also kitls were quite popular as uniforms in scottish hotels etc.



Me.. I do have a kilt - a mini one that I use when I got to Whit Friday with the Scottish Brass Band that goes down. You can see me wearing it here... (avc=ctually yop can also see a lot of guys in kilts here too!

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,17923.msg371138.html#msg371138



 
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2011, 01:16:40 pm »
Bowie's 'dress' actually looks more like an overlong frock coat or priest cassock than a dress.

Yeah, I can see the similarity in the design.  But he did call them "dresses".  They were designed by a guy he was dating around that time (c.1970-71) named Fred Burrett (sometimes known as Burretti).  Burretti was a fashion designer and was developing a line of men's dresses at the time for his shop in London.  I guess they were specifically designed to account for a man's flat chest. The one in the picture is, I think, the same one from the cover of The Man Who Sold the World, so is the most famous.  But, Bowie had a lot of them, since he wore outfits like that fon stage during the period.    

Burretti also designed some of the very, very early Ziggy Stardust costumes (early 1972).  Most of the more famous Ziggy costumes were designed a bit later by a Japanese designer named Kansai Yamamoto.
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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2011, 01:18:49 pm »
More pics by photographer Roberto Foddai. I find these pics very interesting.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2011, 01:28:11 pm »
^Wow, yeah.  Those are interesting.

I've been trying to find good examples of Kurt Cobain in his dresses too... I know he occasionally wore them on stage.

This is the best example I've found so far (granted I've only been doing basic Google image searches).  There must be better photos out there somewhere...

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2011, 01:45:05 pm »

I've been trying to find good examples of Kurt Cobain in his dresses too... I know he occasionally wore them on stage.

I didnīt remember that at all

I found a couple other pics

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2011, 01:58:06 pm »
^Thanks!  Yeah, isn't there even a Nirvana video where they're in dresses?  Wow, it's been a long time since I've thought much about Nirvana videos.  Maybe I'm misremembering that about a video in drag.

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2011, 06:28:39 pm »
more Nirvana





source

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2011, 06:30:03 pm »

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2011, 06:38:44 pm »

I've been trying to find good examples of Kurt Cobain in his dresses too... I know he occasionally wore them on stage.


I'm fairly sure Kurt got married in one. 

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #75 on: May 13, 2011, 06:39:20 pm »

Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2011, 07:33:49 pm »
I didnīt remember that at all

I found a couple other pics

I didn't realize he was so beautiful.  I must show these pics of Kurt to my daughter!  She idolizes him! 

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2011, 08:58:03 pm »
I'm fairly sure Kurt got married in one.  

Yes, I think that's right now that you mention it.  It's funny, I'm a huge Hole fan, but am only tangentially aware of the Kurt/Nirvana details.  I mean, I like Nirvana (definitely) but I've never really made a "study" of them.  Also, it's worth noting that Nirvana of course covered the song "The Man Who Sold the World" (i.e. Bowie in his dress long ago).  

^^Also love The Cure pics... I love "Boys Don't Cry"- one of my all time favorite songs by The Cure.  :)  The reaction of the goofy audience at the end of this is too funny.  It's almost worthy of Monty Python.  :laugh:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcvHA6xOrkw[/youtube]

More on male musicians in dresses.  

The Rolling Stones:



In the early days of Nine Inch Nails, Trent Reznor occasionally performed in skirts.  It's quite interesting because he has such a "masculine" image (I think, generally in the public imagination).  He makes this kind of thing interesting on a different level.  He didn't wear his skirts to be campy.  As far as I understand, Trent is bisexual, but it's hard to know if that has anything to do with his play with gendered dressing in the early days.

He's another one who's very beholden to Bowie. He's sampled so much of Bowie's music... Bowie could have either sued him or adopted him, and Bowie chose to "adopt" him.  NIN toured with Bowie in the mid 1990s and Trent made a whole album of remixes of one of Bowie's songs in the late 90s.



This very excellent YouTube from 1994 is a great example of him performing one of his more hardcore industrial songs in a skirt.  It's a fantastic example of NIN in general, IMO.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKCQRkLv2eE[/youtube]


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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2011, 02:41:33 am »
I didn't realize he was so beautiful.  I must show these pics of Kurt to my daughter!  She idolizes him! 
that was exactly my reaction too. He was.

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2011, 02:45:39 am »
Thanks for those NIN pics, Amanda! Itīs interesting when artists show that "masculinity" can have so many expressions. As a heterosexual woman, I think men can look god damn beautiful and hot in dresses. There is definately no contradiction between the two.

Offline Sason

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2011, 04:28:58 am »

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #81 on: May 14, 2011, 04:30:47 am »



The colour of the hat clashes with the dress....
But I guess you may have to lower your standards when there's a war going on.  ::)

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #82 on: May 14, 2011, 04:33:48 am »



The colour becomes him really well.

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #83 on: May 14, 2011, 04:53:43 am »



Max Klinger in his Sunday Scarlet best! :)
I remember an episode when he had to sell the whole Klinger-collection. :laugh:

I officially love M*A*S*H :D

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #84 on: May 14, 2011, 05:03:01 am »
From Max back to Kurt and Anthony:

Red Hot Chili Peppers song about/dedicated to Kurt Cobain:


Tearjerker

My mouth fell open
Hoping that the truth
Would not be true
Refuse the news

I'm feeling sick now
What the fuck am I
Supposed to do
Just lose and lose

First time I saw you
You were sitting
Backstage in a dress
A perfect mess


You never knew this
But I wanted badly for you to
Requite my love

Chorus :
Left on the floor
Leaving your body
When highs are the lows
And lows are the way
So hard to stay
Guess now you know
I love you so

I liked your whiskers
And I liked the
Dimple in your chin
Your pale blue eyes

You painted pictures
Cause the one
Who hurts
Can give so much
You gave me such

Repeat chorus


Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #85 on: May 14, 2011, 05:06:51 am »
Here it is. It's a killer, if you ask me.


[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1T5kJb0cyc[/youtube]

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #86 on: May 14, 2011, 06:26:01 am »

Max Klinger in his Sunday Scarlet best! :)
I remember an episode when he had to sell the whole Klinger-collection. :laugh:

I officially love M*A*S*H :D

I think I remember that episode too.

I haven't seen MASH for, what, 30 years?

It was really funny, and I esp liked Klinger and his total wackiness.  ::) :laugh:

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #87 on: May 14, 2011, 08:37:26 am »
Here it is. It's a killer, if you ask me.


[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1T5kJb0cyc[/youtube]
wow, good find Chrissie. Had never heard that song before.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #88 on: May 14, 2011, 09:40:00 am »
I think I remember that episode too.

I haven't seen MASH for, what, 30 years?

It was really funny, and I esp liked Klinger and his total wackiness.  ::) :laugh:

Me too.  I liked how he started the scam to get sent home, but then embraced his fashion sense and those around him got used to it as well.

Henry [seeing Klinger in a bathrobe and curlers]:  Klinger!  It's 10 am!  Go put on a dress!

[Klinger salutes and leaves]

Henry [shaking his head]:  These guys...you got to stay on them every minute.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Offline Meryl

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #89 on: May 14, 2011, 12:41:43 pm »


Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #90 on: May 14, 2011, 01:27:04 pm »
that was exactly my reaction too. He was.

Yeah, Kurt really was good looking... a little scruffy most of the time, but that was clearly part of his appeal. [Sorry this is slightly off topic]


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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #91 on: May 14, 2011, 02:11:36 pm »


Maybe technically not a dress, but definitely a man!

One out of two is not bad!    ;D :laugh:

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Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #92 on: May 14, 2011, 02:30:42 pm »
that was exactly my reaction too. He was.

Indeed!  What a fox!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #93 on: May 14, 2011, 03:58:33 pm »
^^I love Rocky Horror. :)  I have such fun memories of the first time I saw that with friends for a genuine midnight show with actors acting out the scenes.  Such a cool cult phenomenon.

OK, get ready for a mind-blowing example of a boy in a dress. 

This is a high fashion (male) model named Andrej Pejic.  He models for both men's and women's lines on runways and in photos.  I'm going to post a bunch of pictures of him in the Androgyny thread too.  These are some examples of him specifically in dresses. 











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Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #94 on: May 14, 2011, 03:59:47 pm »
^^I love Rocky Horror. :)  I have such fun memories of the first time I saw that with friends for a genuine midnight show with actors acting out the scenes.  Such a cool cult phenomenon.

OK, get ready for a mind-blowing example of a boy in a dress. 

This is a high fashion (male) model named Andrej Pejic.  He models for both men's and women's lines on runways and in photos.  I'm going to post a bunch of pictures of him in the Androgyny thread too.  These are some examples of him specifically in dresses. 












love these photos, Amanda!

He reminds me of Orlando Bloom in Lord of the Rings.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #95 on: May 14, 2011, 04:01:17 pm »
 :)  Yeah, just do a google image search for him... quite amazing.  And, he's quite the sensation right now doing a lot of work this year for major designers.

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #96 on: May 14, 2011, 04:08:55 pm »
:)  Yeah, just do a google image search for him... quite amazing.  And, he's quite the sensation right now doing a lot of work this year for major designers.


wow, well it must be the ultimate set up for any model - to be able to model both womenīs and menīs lines.

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #97 on: May 14, 2011, 04:17:12 pm »
Wow Amanda. Great find. So beautiful. Gotta look more later. Watching Eurovision right now.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #98 on: May 14, 2011, 04:21:00 pm »

Yeah, he definitely is beautiful.  Have fun with Eurovision! 

He's clearly just completely naturally androgynous.  Some of these pics are unbelievable. IMO.







OK, I'll stop now.  I put a bunch of other pics in the Androgyny thread.
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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #99 on: May 14, 2011, 04:37:45 pm »
Oh...and talking about Eurovision..Dana International won in 1998 for Israel

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn_F-WyaaFk[/youtube]

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #100 on: May 14, 2011, 05:06:36 pm »
Another musical example of men in dresses...

Indochine's video for their song "Marilyn" (2002) features boys in skirts and other forms of gender-bending.




[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJW6SR4pCM[/youtube]
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Offline whiskeyspring

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2011, 06:03:44 pm »
^^Also love The Cure pics... I love "Boys Don't Cry"- one of my all time favorite songs by The Cure.  :)  The reaction of the goofy audience at the end of this is too funny.  It's almost worthy of Monty Python.  :laugh:

Wish I could see this, but alas "not available in your country", dang. Can't watch the Indochine video either. Indochine - this brings back memories from 1984 when they had a hit with L'aventurier. Didn't know they're still active.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #102 on: May 14, 2011, 06:13:46 pm »
Wish I could see this, but alas "not available in your country", dang. Can't watch the Indochine video either. Indochine - this brings back memories from 1984 when they had a hit with L'aventurier. Didn't know they're still active.

Aww, that's always so frustrating.  What country are you in?  I get that error from time to time to, depending on what I'm trying to watch.  There are probably other versions of both of those on YouTube if you search for them (often these things get shared by a lot of different people in different countries/ formats... so sometimes you can get lucky finding other versions).

The Indochine is, of course, in French, which I love.  And, it's quite catchy in a unique way, and needless to say a very sexy video. :)

Yeah, I have an online friend on another forum who is totally obsessed with Indochine and I've actually gotten into them a bit through her (she's in New Zealand by the way).  They do seem quite active these days, but yeah they are quite a long-running band.  Good for them. :)



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Offline whiskeyspring

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #103 on: May 14, 2011, 06:22:08 pm »
What country are you in?

Germany. A lot of music isn't available here. I tried a few free proxies but none of them worked. Looking for other versions is a good idea, I'll try that.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #104 on: May 14, 2011, 06:28:50 pm »
Germany. A lot of music isn't available here. I tried a few free proxies but none of them worked. Looking for other versions is a good idea, I'll try that.

I always wonder how videos get blocked on YouTube for certain countries?  It seems so odd, when the same links work for everyone else.  But, yeah, it happens for me too from time to time with videos posted from other countries (I'm in the U.S.).

I know you often can't embed "official" videos in forums like this.  So, I automatically look for versions saved by fans.



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Offline whiskeyspring

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #105 on: May 14, 2011, 06:45:48 pm »
I think they check the IP address. Over here the problem is that youtube and a German company that represents the copyright owners (companies like Sony, UMG etc)  can't agree on how much money youtube should pay for their content, so youtube decided to block the videos for German users after the old contract expired in 2009.  

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #106 on: May 14, 2011, 07:08:21 pm »
Here's another guy with a skirt or kilt to make up for the OT posts. The pic is from an online shop for clothes for Goths. There are several skirts for men on that website, seems to be quite hip.


Offline Kelda

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #107 on: May 14, 2011, 08:16:32 pm »
Oh...and talking about Eurovision..Dana International won in 1998 for Israel

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn_F-WyaaFk[/youtube]

but didn't get through the semi final this time.. huurumph!
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #108 on: May 14, 2011, 08:17:21 pm »
:)  Yeah, just do a google image search for him... quite amazing.  And, he's quite the sensation right now doing a lot of work this year for major designers.



Wow, I would totally not have though he was a guy....
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Offline Meryl

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #109 on: May 14, 2011, 10:03:08 pm »
Maybe technically not a dress, but definitely a man!

One out of two is not bad!    ;D :laugh:

You bet!  ;D

I'm amazed at the pics on this thread, had no idea rock bands had such a history of skirt love.  8)
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #110 on: May 14, 2011, 10:38:59 pm »
You bet!  ;D

I'm amazed at the pics on this thread, had no idea rock bands had such a history of skirt love.  8)

Now I have a huge urge to watch The Rocky Horror Picture Show again.  I haven't watched it for quite a long time.  Am feeling a bit of nostalgia.

Yeah, there's a huge history of an interest in androgyny in rock music.  There are a lot more examples of that kind of thing that don't necessarily involve specifically wearing dresses.  But, the dress/skirt-wearing phenomenon is definitely not un-common.  Many of the folks I've posted (NIN, Placebo, The Cure, Indochine, even Nirvana since they covered "The Man Who Sold the World") are pretty much direct descendents of David Bowie.  Bowie for a huge category of rock music is a bit like Bob Dylan, in that he's inspired subsequent generations of major bands that came after him in terms of lyrics, sound and image (and for what it's worth, Dylan inspired Bowie in the early days).  Even the guitar in the Indochine song I posted is pretty directly inspired by Robert Fripp's style of guitar on Bowie's Scary Monsters album.  And, of course Bowie has always been interested in androgyny.

Here's a YouTube of Bowie's video for his song called "Boys Keep Swinging" from his album Lodger that he produced with Brian Eno in the late 70s.  It involves him in drag in a number of ways.

I'm quite sure that Bowie would say that in relation to this kind of thing, wearing his suit and tie (conventional male attire) is its own form of drag.

It's actually a very poignant video in surprising ways if you watch to the end.  And it's a very important video to be aware of in relation to Bowie's more famous video for "China Girl" (with the smeared lipstick).

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i1faAqJZtA[/youtube]



« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 03:50:33 pm by atz75 »
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2011, 11:15:13 pm »
Bowie c. 1997



Or, put another way, he helped subsequent generations of men (male musicians) who wanted to break out of the constraints of a gendered box as far as dressing goes.

It's clear that this speaks to a lot of musicians (and boys, men generally) looking for ways out of social conventions.  It's so interesting to me that women fought so hard to be able to wear pants.  And men (who in some ways hold much of the "power" in terms of social control) have kept themselves confined when it comes to choices in clothing.  Clearly there are a lot of men who like the idea of wearing skirts/dresses.  There's something going on here in terms of sociology that's way beyond my ability to understand.  But, if nothing else... it's really interesting.

And, in general I salute most anyone who fights against convention.

Also, in all of this there's a really interesting aspect of empathy with women... that comes up occasionally with some of these musicians in interview, etc.

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Offline Sason

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #112 on: May 15, 2011, 04:02:07 am »
You bet!  ;D

I'm amazed at the pics on this thread, had no idea rock bands had such a history of skirt love.  8)

I agree, had no idea either. 

(it probably goes to show how much little I follow these things.... ::))

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Offline Andrew

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Re: Let´s celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2011, 03:10:51 pm »
Last week Boston Ballet did a modern program which included Jiri Kylian's Bella Figura, from which dance these images come.  In this section of the dance men and women have the same costume.  So instead of a man/woman dichotomy you have above and below the waist for all the dancers - bare above, while below is a version of an eighteenth century skirt with panniers, rather appropriate for the Baroque music used.  The dancers used these to great advantage in sections when groups of them zigzagged upstage and when they shook their hips from side to side.   I really loved this dance.   These pictures are from various performances in Europe and the US.   In the second picture the women are wearing bodices - possibly just for the purposes of that particular company's publicity shots.  The last picture is actually from the Boston Ballet performance which just happened.





Offline Sason

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2011, 03:37:33 pm »
^^^^^^^^

Beautiful pictures!

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Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #115 on: May 15, 2011, 03:44:40 pm »

wow, they are all so amazingly fit

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #116 on: May 15, 2011, 04:04:45 pm »
wow, they are all so amazingly fit

well, us two would probably be as well - if we were dancers...   ::)  :laugh:

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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #117 on: May 15, 2011, 04:57:25 pm »
Last week Boston Ballet did a modern program which included Jiri Kylian's Bella Figura, from which dance these images come.  In this section of the dance men and women have the same costume.  So instead of a man/woman dichotomy you have above and below the waist for all the dancers - bare above, while below is a version of an eighteenth century skirt with panniers, rather appropriate for the Baroque music used.  The dancers used these to great advantage in sections when groups of them zigzagged upstage and when they shook their hips from side to side.   I really loved this dance.   These pictures are from various performances in Europe and the US.   In the second picture the women are wearing bodices - possibly just for the purposes of that particular company's publicity shots.  The last picture is actually from the Boston Ballet performance which just happened.


This reminds me of something PA Ballet does, the title of which unfortunately escapes me at the moment.  ???  They didn't do it this season. But in this particular ballet all the dancers represent roses. The central figure, a woman, wears only a white leotard--I think she's supposed to be a white rosebud--but the other dancers, men and women, wear red skirts, though shorter than the skirts in this Boston Ballet performance. I have to say that I don't much care for it because I find the odd costumes to distract me from the choreography.
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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #118 on: May 15, 2011, 09:11:48 pm »
One other from dance, and again, a company I have seen myself.  This is the New Zealand troupe Black Grace.  They were conceived as an all-male group fusing Maori, Samoan and modern dance elements and they still do many male dances in their programs although they are always introducing new things.








Offline serious crayons

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #119 on: May 16, 2011, 11:24:36 am »
http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/05/14/man_in_flannel_skirt?source=newsletter&utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Salon_Daily%2520Newsletter%2520%2528Not%2520Premium%2529_7_30_110

My life as a man in a skirt
I've worn women's clothing and cosmetics since the age of 16 -- but that doesn't mean what you might expect
By Jon-Jon Goulian


This article is an adapted excerpt from Jon-Jon Goulian's memoir "The Man in the Gray Flannel Skirt," available from Random House on May 17.

For the great bulk of my adult life, beginning roughly when I was sixteen, and continuing, off and on, until now, at the age of forty, I have fallen short, sometimes dangerously short, of the conventional ideal of masculinity. From my taste in clothing (skirts and high heels and women's underwear), to my taste in cosmetics (pink lip gloss and eyeliner), to my taste in sex (I can't get aroused unless I'm submissive, and it helps if the woman looks like a boy), to my distaste for body fat and body hair and competition of any kind, to the two hours it still takes me to get ready to go out at night, I have behaved, in many respects -- and I have gotten no end of shit for it -- like a vain, prissy, neurotic, body-obsessed "woman." Or, in the words of a powerful Italian mobster named Jackie the Toad, with whom I worked very closely for a year after college, I have behaved, revoltingly, like "half-a-fag."

By "half-a-fag," Jackie the Toad was not suggesting that I occasionally sleep with men. Of my heterosexuality he was fairly well convinced, since he believed, erroneously as it happens, that I was sleeping wholeheartedly with a "plump and yummy" Italian hairdresser we knew in common. (And as it happens, I do not sleep with men. On the few occasions in my adult life when I have been in the near company of another man's erect penis, my impulse was to flee.) What Jackie meant by "half-a-fag" was that, though I seemed to be attracted to women, and ostensibly occasionally slept with them, the way I held myself -- the way I walked, the way I ate, the way I dressed, the way I obsessively studied my reflection in the mirror, the way I gabbed away "like a little girl" on the phone with my friends, the way I did not salivate at the sight of every woman's bouncing tits -- was not in keeping with what one expects of a real man.

Jackie was not alone, among the important men in my early life, in thinking that my masculinity left something to be desired. My maternal grandfather, a rather prominent political philosopher named Sidney Hook, who wrote, in book after book and for every serious journal imaginable, on subjects ranging from Marxism to existentialism, and from psychoanalysis to euthanasia, and who spent most of his life, in the face of Communist aggression around the world, fighting, with his voice and his pen but never his fists, for the causes of freedom and democracy -- a man, therefore, who could not have been further removed, both culturally and intellectually, from Jackie the Toad -- also, in so many words, called me "half-a-fag."

The word he used was faygeleh, a mild Yiddish pejorative for homosexual. Queer and fairy are close approximations. When he used the word, in a conversation with my grandmother over breakfast at their summerhouse in Vermont, with me, visiting for a week during college, sitting daintily between them, he assumed I didn't know what it meant, forgetting that Leo Rosten's "The Joys of Yiddish," which I had thumbed through many times, was sitting in a bookcase just ten feet away. I ended up cutting my visit short. The straw that broke the faygeleh's back was my grandfather's more direct confrontation, a few days later, of the issue of my sexual orientation, in which he minced no words, in either Yiddish or English, in expressing his disgust for my appearance. My grandfather later apologized to me for his meanness and intolerance during this visit, his letter including the following -- "I hope you will one day forgive your Grandpa. It's not your fault, it's mine. I'm an antediluvian fuddy-duddy, an old stick-in-the-mud, and it's not always easy for me to keep up with the behavior of young people."

And then there was my dad. The poor man, to his hurt and disappointment, has never known quite what to make of me. And who can blame him? I've never looked like the children of his friends, or even like the children of strangers, and I certainly haven’t looked like the two children (my two older brothers) who preceded me. Nor have I acted like any of them. My behavior, in his eyes -- the eyes of a hematologist and biochemist for whom there is always either a rational or irrational course of action -- has been consistently irrational and bizarre. And I don't know of a single father who would disagree with him. Consider: I rarely have a job, generally living hand to mouth on mung beans and millet and canned herring; I've lived most of my life in a succession of cramped, skimpily furnished rooms on other people's terms, including a five-year stretch in a curtained-off portion of a woman's living-room; I don't own a suit or tie or even a single pair of respectable trousers; the heels of my shoes, bordering on stilts, run from four to seven inches; I own very few shirts that fall below my belly button; my tattoos, like that terrible ivy growing up the side of our house that my father was always hacking away at with a shears when I was a child, seem to climb another foot every time he turns his back, and now, at the base of my neck, are encroaching on my face; I move from coast to coast seemingly at whim, doing the same "nothing" in Los Angeles that I was doing just as easily in New York; my love life is baffling, my romantic entanglements lasting, on average, about forty-five minutes; I sometimes go for weeks, even months, not speaking to anyone, in a state of willful solitary confinement, and, far from unsettling me, this seems to bring me nothing but peace and fulfillment; despite having a law degree, and having clerked for a federal judge, which should have earned me a salary by now of at least $250,000 a year, my most recent bout of employment, for $12 an hour, was babysitting a seven-year-old girl named Ruth; I own nothing, and save nothing, and accomplish nothing tangible, and have no permanent hold on life whatsoever. If an alien spacecraft, mistaking me for a representative human being, zoomed down from the heavens and grabbed me for the zoo back home, my absence would be noticed by about ten people, and missed, at most, by five. Ruth would be one of them.

And, yes, I dress like a girl. How many dads out there do we know of who could put up with that? About my shiftlessness, my lack of drive, my father has continually expressed frustration, but about my androgyny, to his great credit, he's only directly pressed me once, when I was eighteen, about to head off to Columbia College (his alma mater), my androgyny having just come into full bloom. I was in the kitchen at the time, making a quesadilla with fat-free mozzarella. He snuck up behind me, taking me by surprise just as I was about to open the toaster oven:

"Jonathan? Can you please explain something to me? What is this ensemble all about? The sarong, the earrings, the lipstick, your mother's perfume. My curiosity has finally gotten the better of me, and I can’t help but try to satisfy it."

There's an especially obnoxious drawl that every Southern California teenager, when under attack, can adopt in half a second if he wants to tell his parents to "fuck off and leave me alone," and I put on that drawl and said: "I don't know, man. I wear what I wear."

"Don't call me 'man,' and just try to explain. I'm your dad. I think I have a right to know. I don’t think I’m asking too much."

He did have a right to know. He was not asking too much. His curiosity had a right to be satisfied. I will give him all of that. Unfortunately, I wasn't in a position to enlighten him, because I didn't know myself. I was just doing what came naturally to me. Being called to account for it, as I have been again and again throughout my life, was like being called to account for one's need to breathe.

It was not until the writing of my memoir, "The Man in the Gray Flannel Skirt," a deep and painful stab at self-analysis (the only kind of analysis I can afford), that I was able to come up with a plausible answer to my father’s question. It is an answer, I hope, that will satisfy him, his curiosity if nothing else, and will explain to him why his youngest son, despite having been clearly shown the way to success and happiness, veered so drastically off the path.

Not long ago, my five-year-old nephew, Ariel, when he heard the title of my book, called me up and said, with a note of intense worry in his voice: "Uncle Jon-Jon, can I ask you a question?"

"Of course," I told him. "Anything."

"Do you, um, wear bras?" The poor kid was terrified. He lives in North Carolina. The craziest thing he’s ever seen is a guy with a long goatee, and tattoos, who works at the Whole Foods in Raleigh. Ethan heard the words Uncle Jon-Jon and man in skirt, and his wheels started spinning. He had visions of an angry mob outside his bedroom window, carrying pitchforks and torches, screaming for the head of the nephew of the man in New York City who wears bras.

No, Ariel. I don't wear bras. Unlike cross-dressers, those deviants, I have a sense of proportion. Five-inch wedges from Steve Madden -- I own ten pairs -- are respectable. My Tommy Girl tank top, falling just below my hairless nipples, is respectable. My gray flannel skirt, with a rhinestone belt buckle saying "Jon-Jon" attached to it, is respectable. Stockings, wigs, Pancake makeup, and whatever else cross-dressers do that I don't do -- keep it away from me.

Ariel's confusion was understandable. He was hardly alone -- anyone who has ever set eyes on me also comes to mind -- in wondering what goes on behind the scenes. One thing I've learned over the course of twenty-four years of behaving and dressing androgynously is that people hate to be confronted with indeterminacy. The uncategorizable is unsettling. If I were a man in drag, people would know exactly what I am, or at least they would believe they know exactly what I am, and have fewer problems with me: "Oh, yes yes yes, that man is definitely gay, and he has a very strong identification with women, he probably thinks he is a woman, and that's why he dresses like one, and a sex change is probably in the offing, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if his own special vagina is being made to order as we speak."

But that's not what I was, that's not what I am. I have a penis, and I am attached to it. My androgyny was, and is, more subtle and confusing, less womanly, say, than boyishly girly, or perhaps girlishly boyish better captures it, or perhaps epicene is the word we're looking for here, but epicene's not very helpful because what the hell does epicene really mean? And this difficulty in summing me up drives people crazy. They won't have it. Whether I like it or not, they'll find just the right label for me -- homosexual, bisexual, transsexual, polysexual, metrosexual, metasexual; autosexual, cryptosexual, crypticsexual, protosexual, extraterrasexual, gender-bender, glam-boy, player, poseur, flaneur, slut, aesthete, dandy, lebenskunstler; lotus-eater; bohemian nymph; bourgeois nymph; bourgeois nymph masquerading as a bohemian nymph! -- and, whether they like it or not, they’re determined to make it stick.

Jon-Jon Goulian grew up in La Jolla, Calif., where he wore a skirt to his high school prom. A grandson of political philosopher Sidney Hook, he attended Columbia College and NYU Law School. "The Man in the Gray Flannel Skirt" is his first book.


Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #120 on: May 16, 2011, 11:39:11 am »
Interesting article, Katherine.  I got curious.  Here's Jon-Jon:


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #121 on: May 16, 2011, 12:18:47 pm »
Interesting article, Katherine.  I got curious.  Here's Jon-Jon:


Hmm. Scary--and not because of the skirt.

Those don't look like "five-inch wedges from Steve Madden" to me, but what do I know?  ???

Quote
I have a penis, and I am attached to it.

 :laugh:  If it were detachable, that would be really scary.

He writes well, and interestingly.  :)
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Offline louisev

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #122 on: May 16, 2011, 02:00:29 pm »
it's called transvestitism, regardless that he doesn't wear the undergarments.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #123 on: May 16, 2011, 07:01:52 pm »
it's called transvestitism, regardless that he doesn't wear the undergarments.

Is it transvestitism when women wear pants? It's so common now, but women fought long and hard to be able to wear pants in peace and without ridicule. Why should it be different for men who want to wear skirts?   I think that questioning gender conventions iS the most interesting aspect of this whole topic.
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #124 on: May 16, 2011, 07:06:23 pm »













Gorgeous.  In some pics, he looks like Jonathan Rhys Meyers.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #125 on: May 16, 2011, 07:43:02 pm »
Yeah, I can see what you mean about Jonathan Rhys Meyers.  He also reminds me a bit of Jaye Davidson from The Crying Games, in how feminine he can look.

Jaye Davidson:


In a way, this discussion fits more with the general androgyny thread.  I posted these pics of Andrej Pejic over in that thread in Safe Haven, but I may as well post them here too.  So interesting.  While he's not wearing skirts here, some of these are his most feminine pictures IMO.

This is his little bio, which is also interesting...
http://models.com/people/andrej-pejic
Quote
Country of origin: Bosnia-Herzegovina
Father is Croatian, mother is Serbian. From WWD profile December 20, 2010: "Since the fashion industry first began asking “Who’s the blonde girl?” at the Paris men’s shows in June (2010), 19-year- old Serbian Australian model Andrej Pejic has emerged as a poster boy for fashion androgyny. His long, platinum blonde hair and feminine features caught the attention of, among others, Steven Meisel and Mert Alas and Marcus Piggott. Jean Paul Gaultier not only booked Pejic for his spring 2011 men’s show, he also cast him in his spring ad campaign alongside Czech supermodel Karolina Kurkova. Now it looks like Marc Jacobs may also be going the guess-the-gender route for his Marc by Marc Jacobs spring campaign. Pejic recently returned from shooting the ads in Marrakech with Juergen Teller alongside look-alike Latvian (female) model Ginta Lapina. Born in Tuzla, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Pejic and his family fled the war-torn region in the Nineties before settling as refugees in Melbourne, Australia."















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Offline Meryl

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #126 on: May 16, 2011, 08:21:44 pm »
Last week Boston Ballet did a modern program which included Jiri Kylian's Bella Figura, from which dance these images come.  In this section of the dance men and women have the same costume.  So instead of a man/woman dichotomy you have above and below the waist for all the dancers - bare above, while below is a version of an eighteenth century skirt with panniers, rather appropriate for the Baroque music used.  The dancers used these to great advantage in sections when groups of them zigzagged upstage and when they shook their hips from side to side.   I really loved this dance.   These pictures are from various performances in Europe and the US.   In the second picture the women are wearing bodices - possibly just for the purposes of that particular company's publicity shots.  The last picture is actually from the Boston Ballet performance which just happened.





Thanks, Andrew.  Reminds me of the 70's when Jiri Kylian was working with the Stuttgart Ballet.  8)
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #127 on: May 16, 2011, 08:48:04 pm »
Is it transvestitism when women wear pants? It's so common now, but women fought long and hard to be able to wear pants in peace and without ridicule. Why should it be different for men who want to wear skirts?   I think that questioning gender conventions iS the most interesting aspect of this whole topic.

I suppose one could ask why anybody would want to wear a skirt these days.

I mean, since skirts are no longer commonly instep-length, aren't skirts and dresses cold in cold weather?  ???
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #128 on: May 16, 2011, 08:57:07 pm »
I suppose one could ask why anybody would want to wear a skirt these days.

I mean, since skirts are no longer commonly instep-length, aren't skirts and dresses cold in cold weather?  ???

Well, I think some people just like the way skirts look.  Clearly people wear clothing for all kinds of non-practical reasons/ for mainly aesthetic reasons.  LOL, I don't need to own or wear my cowgirl hat or boots, but I like them! :)

And, you're right that skirts can be cold in cold weather.  But, they can be comfortable in warm weather.
:)

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #129 on: May 16, 2011, 09:07:11 pm »
Actually, I think skirts are warmer than pants, in the same way mittens are warmer than gloves. But, with global warming looming, aren't skirts the wave of the future?
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #130 on: May 16, 2011, 11:17:00 pm »
Skirts can be cold in winter, but are infinitely more comfortable than pants in summer.


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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #131 on: May 17, 2011, 08:44:51 am »
But, with global warming looming, aren't skirts the wave of the future?

I would think, rather, that would be loose-fitting, baggy shorts. In summer, they're already practically a uniform around here. You'd think Old Navy had taken over the world.  :-\ With all those pockets, at least they're practical.  :-\

Or what about what my mother used to call culottes?  ;D

Skirts can be cold in winter, but are infinitely more comfortable than pants in summer.

What I don't get is people who run around in full-length, heavy jeans, and flip-flops, but let be, let be.  ???
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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #132 on: May 17, 2011, 11:55:27 am »
Interesting article, Katherine.  I got curious.  Here's Jon-Jon:


He was also featured on NPR recently:

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/16/136242022/a-partyboy-reflects-on-life-lip-gloss
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #133 on: May 17, 2011, 06:31:59 pm »
I suppose one could ask why anybody would want to wear a skirt these days.

I mean, since skirts are no longer commonly instep-length, aren't skirts and dresses cold in cold weather?


Skirts are easy.  In the summer, you just pop on a top, your sandals, and slid on the skirt and you're out the door.

Naw, I find skirts warmer in winter than pants.  Under skirts, you can layer.  If it's really cold, you can wear stockings, tights on top of that, socks on your feet, boots and then the skirt which - if a winter skirt - is probably lined, then of course your coats etc.  I find the colder it gets, the more inclined I am to wear a skirt.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #134 on: May 17, 2011, 07:14:32 pm »
Naw, I find skirts warmer in winter than pants.  Under skirts, you can layer.  If it's really cold, you can wear stockings, tights on top of that, socks on your feet, boots and then the skirt which - if a winter skirt - is probably lined, then of course your coats etc.  I find the colder it gets, the more inclined I am to wear a skirt.

Well, yes, but as you describe it, it's the layers that are keeping you warm, not the skirt. Unless your trousers are painted-on tight, you can layer with trousers, too.

Nor do I see how a skirt in the summer is any easier than a pair of baggy shorts.
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2011, 07:23:38 pm »
Well, yes, but as you describe it, it's the layers that are keeping you warm, not the skirt. Unless your trousers are painted-on tight, you can layer with trousers, too.

Nor do I see how a skirt in the summer is any easier than a pair of baggy shorts.

Because you can't wear baggy shorts everywhere.  ;D

As for layering, the skirt allows you to do that.

Layer under pants?  Well, I guess if you're wearing parachute pants or sweatpants.  All my regular pants are straight-legged and fit quite close because I'm so short and curvy.  If I had baggy pants I'd look like a sloppy tree trunk.

Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #136 on: May 18, 2011, 02:37:57 am »
a special webpage for famous men in skirts, isnīt that great!

http://www.meninskirts.org/Famous.htm


Offline serious crayons

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #137 on: May 18, 2011, 08:33:30 am »
Well, yes, but as you describe it, it's the layers that are keeping you warm, not the skirt. Unless your trousers are painted-on tight, you can layer with trousers, too.

Nor do I see how a skirt in the summer is any easier than a pair of baggy shorts.

Because you can't wear baggy shorts everywhere.  ;D

As for layering, the skirt allows you to do that.

Layer under pants?  Well, I guess if you're wearing parachute pants or sweatpants.  All my regular pants are straight-legged and fit quite close because I'm so short and curvy.  If I had baggy pants I'd look like a sloppy tree trunk.

A Minnesotan's perspective:

When it's cold, I guess the layering-under-the-skirt theory makes sense. But unless I'm going to be outside for a long time, I really don't want to wear a million layers. And when it comes to a choice of skirt + tights vs. pants, I choose pants. I rarely wear skirts in the winter at all. For me, they just don't cut it at 20 below. If I AM going to be outside for a long time in the cold, I still choose pants -- snow pants.

When it's hot, skirts are great. They're cooler than baggy shorts because they allow more air circulation (which is the problem, in winter).


Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #138 on: May 18, 2011, 07:28:24 pm »


 ???

I thought David Duchovny was Jewish.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #139 on: May 18, 2011, 07:29:47 pm »
A Minnesotan's perspective:

When it's cold, I guess the layering-under-the-skirt theory makes sense. But unless I'm going to be outside for a long time, I really don't want to wear a million layers. And when it comes to a choice of skirt + tights vs. pants, I choose pants. I rarely wear skirts in the winter at all. For me, they just don't cut it at 20 below. If I AM going to be outside for a long time in the cold, I still choose pants -- snow pants.

Ah, there you go.  If it's 20 below I will NEVER be outside for a long time so I don't have to worry about what to wear.  8)

Offline Kelda

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #140 on: May 19, 2011, 07:15:02 am »
???

I thought David Duchovny was Jewish.


Whats that got to do with him wearing a kilt!?! I believe his Mum is Scottish.

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Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #141 on: May 19, 2011, 12:30:34 pm »
???

I thought David Duchovny was Jewish.


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Now I canīt date him! >:(

Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #142 on: May 19, 2011, 12:49:37 pm »
Even H&M are a bit bold. Last years summer collection had two pieces of men in skirts.

http://hypebeast.com/2009/11/hm-2010-spring-collection/

Offline Sophia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #143 on: May 19, 2011, 12:53:53 pm »

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #144 on: May 19, 2011, 12:57:25 pm »

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #145 on: May 20, 2011, 11:51:51 pm »
...When Bowie wore his dress on the cover of The Man Who Sold the World in 1971, that cover was censored in many places so that an alternative cover had to be produced for certain markets. One of the interesting things about Bowie's dress from the cover (and others like it) is that it was a "man's dress" designed specifically for a man's body.  He's not technically in "drag".  He did his first tour of the U.S. in his "men's" dresses like this.


I found a little more information about this. From Tidbits Newspaper of August 12-18, 2010: "The original cover of "The Man Who Sold the World" showing Bowie in a dress, was banned in the US. The cover that replaced it was of a man with a shotgun in front of a building. The building is...the Cane Hill Mental Hospital where Bowie's brother Terry was a patient."

I got this issue of Tidbits from Po' Boys Steakhouse in Casper, Wyoming. Friend, I'm sure you remember going there with me!!
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #146 on: May 21, 2011, 03:00:02 pm »
I found a little more information about this. From Tidbits Newspaper of August 12-18, 2010: "The original cover of "The Man Who Sold the World" showing Bowie in a dress, was banned in the US. The cover that replaced it was of a man with a shotgun in front of a building. The building is...the Cane Hill Mental Hospital where Bowie's brother Terry was a patient."

I got this issue of Tidbits from Po' Boys Steakhouse in Casper, Wyoming. Friend, I'm sure you remember going there with me!!


Thanks Lee. :)  Yes, I remember Po'Boys in Casper.  Didn't we stop in Casper twice?  Once on the way up and once on the way back?

And, yes, isn't it amazing to think that this particular photo was so shocking at the time that the censorship happened?  

Here's an alternative version/ outfit related to the censored cover. And some other related photos.




The whole topic of Cane Hill and Terry came up thoroughly in the threads here about Duncan's movie (with Jake in it) Source Code.  There are very many chilling references to Terry (and I think to Cane Hill too) in that movie.  In the BetterMost thread about Source Code, the intensive discussion about Terry starts around here: http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,48948.msg608898.html#msg608898

'Tis the alternative cover and a photo of Cane Hill (now closed and crumbling):




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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2011, 07:37:03 pm »
Ah, there you go.  If it's 20 below I will NEVER be outside for a long time so I don't have to worry about what to wear.  8)

Well me neither, if I can help it. But I still have to go from the car to the building and back again, and occasionally walk several blocks.

I can see where a skirt with layers would be enough to get you through a Texas winter.


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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #148 on: May 22, 2011, 08:09:17 pm »
He seems to be holding the King of Clubs in that photo.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #149 on: May 25, 2011, 08:38:18 pm »

Adam Lambert



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Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #150 on: May 25, 2011, 11:29:53 pm »
Adam Lambert




oh, I like Adam. What a singer! And I love the way he dresses.

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #151 on: May 25, 2011, 11:37:23 pm »
sparkly ladies

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #152 on: May 25, 2011, 11:42:00 pm »
oh, I like Adam. What a singer! And I love the way he dresses.

Yeah! I like him a lot too. And, he certainly has an amazing voice.  Actually, my Mom is the really big Lambert fan in my family.  She was the one who followed him from the very beginning of Idol.  Anyway, good for him trying to continue the glam tradition.
:)

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Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #153 on: May 25, 2011, 11:42:21 pm »
I like this one

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #154 on: May 25, 2011, 11:44:15 pm »
Yeah, there was such a long tradition of dressing little boys in girls' clothing.  Really quite fascinating... given that it was a very conservative (upper-bourgeois and upper class) type of tradition.

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Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #155 on: May 25, 2011, 11:46:11 pm »
Yeah! I like him a lot too. And, he certainly has an amazing voice.  Actually, my Mom is the really big Lambert fan in my family.  She was the one who followed him from the very beginning of Idol.  Anyway, good for him trying to continue the glam tradition.
:)


Your mum and I should hook up  :laugh:

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #156 on: May 25, 2011, 11:48:16 pm »
Yeah, there was such a long tradition of dressing little boys in girls' clothing.  Really quite fascinating... given that it was a very conservative (upper-bourgeois and upper class) type of tradition.


Do you know if there is a lot of literature out there written on this subject?

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #157 on: May 25, 2011, 11:56:38 pm »
Do you know if there is a lot of literature out there written on this subject?


I actually think my Mom acquired her taste for things like this through me. :)  Kind of interesting.  But, yeah, she is a huge Lambert fan! Yay Mom!  8)

And, I like him too - definitely.

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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #158 on: May 25, 2011, 11:59:21 pm »
Do you know if there is a lot of literature out there written on this subject?


Hmmm, I'll have to think about it... but I can think of lots of images (old photos, old painted portraits, etc.) where this old tradition is prominent.  Tomorrow when I'm at work I'll post some more examples.  Actually, having the museum's image database will be helpful for this.

And, it truly is an upperclass/ upper-middleclass tradition... and not at all counter-culture.

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #159 on: May 27, 2011, 01:54:42 pm »
I tried to find a photo of Vincent Cassel as the Duc d'Anjou wearing a dress in the movie Elizabeth, but haven't found one yet.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #160 on: May 27, 2011, 02:08:31 pm »

Clarence H. White, "Portrait-Master Tom" 1907


Charles H. Breed, "Henry" 1913
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #161 on: May 27, 2011, 02:16:29 pm »
I tried to find a photo of Vincent Cassel as the Duc d'Anjou wearing a dress in the movie Elizabeth, but haven't found one yet.

Is this what you mean?




I found a good website with screencaps from the movie: http://www.leavemethewhite.com/caps/thumbnails.php?album=131&page=1
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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #162 on: May 27, 2011, 05:46:37 pm »
Yes!! Wow, you are good!!  :)
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #163 on: May 28, 2011, 12:55:41 pm »
Yes!! Wow, you are good!!  :)

 ;D Well, BBM and this forum actually taught me the benefits of looking for screencaps sites when it comes to looking for images from films.  Often much better than things like Google image searches.

OK, I've been meaning to post this for a while... it's not a picture, but a quotation from Keith Richards in his recent autobiography about the early days of his relationship with Anita Pallenberg (late 1960s).  He talks about her in glowing terms throughout most of the book. While not necessarily about wearing dresses... this is about wearing women's clothing.

Anita had a huge influence on the style of the times.  She could put anything together and look good.  I was beginning to wear her clothes most of the time.  I would wake up and put on what was lying around.  Sometimes it was mine, and sometimes it was the old lady's, but we were the same size so it didn't matter... I started to become a fashion icon for wearing my old lady's clothes.



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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #164 on: May 29, 2011, 12:37:12 pm »
Yeah, there was such a long tradition of dressing little boys in girls' clothing.  Really quite fascinating... given that it was a very conservative (upper-bourgeois and upper class) type of tradition.



Wasn't that long ago that people were still doing it.  There are stories in my family of boys in the 1950's being dressed as girls until they reached school age.

Offline Andrew

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Re: Let´s celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #165 on: June 01, 2011, 09:41:22 pm »



Ernest Hemingway

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #166 on: June 01, 2011, 10:07:45 pm »
What a find, Andrew!! EH was the inspiration for my thread "Say It All in Six Words". His entry  was "For Sale, Baby Shoes, Never Worn". Did he lie?
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #167 on: June 01, 2011, 10:50:50 pm »

Wow Andrew!  That really is pretty amazing!

I really don't know the history of why little boys were often dressed in girls' clothing when they were very small... But, I think it goes back pretty deep in history (even in some royal courts in the past, etc.).  It's a pretty interesting cultural phenomenon.

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #168 on: June 01, 2011, 10:59:25 pm »
While in London I saw a young guy wearing a back sweater and a long black skirt with it - he looked very stylish. My first instinct was to run up to him to ask if I could take his picture so that I could post it here ;D

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #169 on: June 02, 2011, 09:27:27 am »
why didn't you?   ::) ;D

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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #170 on: June 02, 2011, 11:41:39 pm »
While in London I saw a young guy wearing a back sweater and a long black skirt with it - he looked very stylish. My first instinct was to run up to him to ask if I could take his picture so that I could post it here ;D

LOL!  That's great!

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Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2011, 11:32:06 am »
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EeD3-d-p-A&feature=related[/youtube]

Varla Jean Merman at a benefit concert--that's her own voice!  No lip synching.
I'm sure the Met won't be calling soon, but not bad for a potty-mouthed drag queen.

Offline Sason

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #172 on: June 12, 2011, 02:35:03 pm »
Not bad at all!  That was pretty good, I think.

Amazing that it's her own voice.

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2011, 03:37:58 pm »
I like this thread :)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #174 on: June 12, 2011, 05:03:30 pm »
This thread has gone far too long without a couple more photos of beautiful Brian from Placebo.




And, a few classic YouTubes with some of his old, famous dresses.

The video quality of this one manages to make 1997 look like the dark ages, yet is still amazing.  It includes some of his classic raunchy stage antics with Stefan.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3TVE19G3Ek[/youtube]

And, a more somber example, with better video/audio. "My Sweet Prince" in his famous dress designed by John Richmond.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wPRVQrruVY[/youtube]




« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 07:33:47 pm by atz75 »
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Offline Meryl

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #175 on: June 12, 2011, 05:44:40 pm »
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EeD3-d-p-A&feature=related[/youtube]

Varla Jean Merman at a benefit concert--that's her own voice!  No lip synching.
I'm sure the Met won't be calling soon, but not bad for a potty-mouthed drag queen.

Nice chest/voice!  ;D
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #176 on: June 12, 2011, 06:47:20 pm »

There really is a lot of music out there featuring men in dresses... This is a YouTube of a very eccentric electronica band called IAMX that features their lead singer, Chris Corner, in a dress-like garment.  They play a lot with rock genres like glam and goth, but also really old genres like cabaret and burlesque.  This particular song is very strong on the cabaret/ burlesque side of things.

They're somewhat underground still, but very hot in certain circles.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vWYTQx1Zl0[/youtube]
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #177 on: September 24, 2011, 05:57:57 pm »


Ernest Hemingway
Just finished reading a fascinating article "The Slow Clack-Up" by Allan Massie, in today's WSJ Review section. It was a review of the new book Hemingway's Boat by Paul Hendrickson, and discusses the author's declining years and the contrast between his younger and older writing styles as well as his younger and older attitudes about life and himself. Hemingway's youngest son, Gigi, a cross dresser, is mentioned and it is posited that Hemingway and his youngest son had much in common.
May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #178 on: October 22, 2011, 05:21:41 am »




"In this society, if a man is called a woman, that’s the biggest insult he could get. Is that because women are considered something less? I know people want me to sort of defend myself, to sit here and be like, ‘I’m a boy, but I wear makeup sometimes.’ But, you know, to me, it doesn’t really matter. I don’t really have that sort of strong gender identity — I identify as what I am.” - Andrej Pejic


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #179 on: December 14, 2011, 09:44:37 pm »
And yet more from Andrej Pejic...

An ad for a push-up bra being promoted with a male model.  Epic.  :D

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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #180 on: December 14, 2011, 11:30:19 pm »
He's very beautiful!
May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #181 on: February 01, 2012, 12:49:55 pm »
Noticed this one on a friendīs facebook page

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #182 on: February 02, 2012, 02:12:03 am »
Noticed this one on a friendīs facebook page

Talk about mixed signals. :laugh:

Offline Monika

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Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #183 on: February 03, 2012, 06:52:40 pm »
 :)

Offline Sason

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #184 on: February 03, 2012, 07:00:34 pm »
I really like the quote, and kudos to him, but he does look funny. Not that it matters, of course.

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #185 on: February 03, 2012, 08:14:30 pm »


 ;D
Monika, I was coming here to post this same thing!  You beat me to it!

Love it!
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #186 on: February 04, 2012, 04:52:09 am »

 ;D
Monika, I was coming here to post this same thing!  You beat me to it!

Love it!



Me too. ;D

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #187 on: May 06, 2012, 05:57:45 pm »
Without going through this whole 19 page thread... Has Twiggy Ramirez come up here yet?  His real name is Jeordie White and this is what he looks like out of make-up.



He's Marilyn Manson's bassist/ guitar player and almost always performs in a dress.  I saw MM last night and Twiggy was there in grand style in a dress.  Brilliant.  There really is an interesting trend... very hardcore music and men wearing dresses.
:)








And, this is a youtube from the gig I saw. <3

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydkCkr59Huo&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 08:16:26 pm by Brown Eyes »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie