Author Topic: Letīs celebrate men in dresses  (Read 61897 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2011, 06:53:22 pm »


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Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2011, 07:05:17 pm »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2011, 10:06:18 pm »
Well, it's interesting that a lot of the photos posted here are drag queens and satire (i.e. Jake on SNL).  Camp is a really important thing, so I'm definitely not dismissing it.  

But, to me it's interesting to think about the question of men and dresses on a different level.  Women fought for the right to wear pants for a long time.  And, there are men who would like to be able to wear skirts/dresses without ridicule.  It's about having the choice to wear a dress if you want to regardless of what sex you happen to be.

I remember there was a boy in my high school (not gay or bisexual as far as I know.  He was more of a punk-hipster than anything else)... who really wanted to be able to wear skirts to school.  He kind of waged his own campaign about it... wearing skirts to school quite frequently and also getting into a lot of trouble for it on occasion.  The fact that he got into so much trouble (and he wasn't wearing anything immodest or revealing... usually knee length black skirts) really emphasized how unfair and stupid dress codes and gendered dress codes can be.

When Bowie wore his dress on the cover of The Man Who Sold the World in 1971, that cover was censored in many places so that an alternative cover had to be produced for certain markets. One of the interesting things about Bowie's dress from the cover (and others like it) is that it was a "man's dress" designed specifically for a man's body.  He's not technically in "drag".  He did his first tour of the U.S. in his "men's" dresses like this.




But, it's interesting that the most androgynous moments are sometimes just head shots with the appropriate attitude.



When Placebo did their first shows in the U.S. Brian was very much in his dress-wearing mode.  This is a YouTube of Bowie performing one of Placebo's songs with them in the late 1990s (and Brian is in a dress here). I think Bowie saw a lot of himself (and of Marc Bolan) in Placebo.  Placebo opened for Bowie for two different tours in the 90s.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GqnDROi6l4[/youtube]


And, when Brian Molko wears his dresses, he does occasionally use the word "drag", but he doesn't really mean it in a camp or "funny" way at all.  It's really just about Brian being able to wear a dress if he wants to - and to look really good when he does so (and to challenge the sexual assumptions of people looking at him).   When he wears pants (which is usually) it's important to note that he's still usually wearing women's pants... many of his shirts are women's shirts too.  So wearing clothing designed for women isn't just about wearing dresses.


Brian's  another one where his most androgynous moments don't always involve a dress.


(well the second one is a dress, but it's not evident in the cropping of the pic)


One of the songs from Placebo's first album is called "Lady of the Flowers" and is based on Jean Genet's 1943 book called Our Lady of the Flowers.  The Genet book is about gay subculture in Paris and features many male characters who go by female names and wear women's clothing.  Here's a YouTube of an early performance of this song... one of the best rare Placebo YouTubes out there IMO - a great example of the mystery and atmospherics of early Placebo shows.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svT-W4bh0BQ&feature=related[/youtube]




« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:41:36 am by atz75 »
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Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 12:37:00 am »
But, to me it's interesting to think about the question of men and dresses on a different level.  Women fought for the right to wear pants for a long time.  And, there are men who would like to be able to wear skirts/dresses without ridicule.  It's about having the choice to wear a dress if you want to regardless of what sex you happen to be.

Yeah, there are many reasons why men wear dresses. In many parts of the world men do wear dresses and itīs seen as "normal" but in the western world it seems to be very provocative indeed. I like to idea of men wearing dresses as an everyday outfit, too - if theyīd like.
Regarding drag - Iīm not sure it always is just about being "camp", I think it might be more complex than that for some.


Charlotte von Mahlsdorf
The pic below is of a person who identyfied himself as a woman (so perhaps technically wrong for this thread). She spent her last years not very far from where I live and I met her once. Very interesteing individual. You might have heard of her since there was a play written based on her life called "I Am My Own Wife"
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 03:07:43 am by Buffymon »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2011, 12:48:57 am »
^Wow, that really is interesting. :)

Yeah, I think of it as a gender equality issue.

 Why should men not be allowed to wear skirts?  There may be some kind of gender stigma that it's "girly"... but that brings us right back to the idea that the feminine is somehow "lesser" compared to the conventional masculine stereotypes.  When a man wants to embrace something typically seen as feminine, it's somehow a degradation or lowering.

The men who are actively defying this gender problem are really interesting IMO.  And, I think must have some kind of interesting empathy for women or understanding that the feminine is actually equal to the masculine (which is obviously true) but not often recognized in conventional society.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2011, 02:27:33 am »
Yet another take on men in dresses:

Männerballett
(Mens' Ballett)















Männerballett is a very old and very typical part of carnival in Germany. Nobody knows the exact origins, but it dates as least as far back as 1648.

It can be camp, it can be artsy, it can be frivolous (think The Full Monty), it can be out-and-out funny. Most balletts emphasize on the fun part, but some take great pride in the precision of their dancing performance and work really hard. There's even a national association for it, and national championships.





Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2011, 02:37:01 am »
Apart from performers, men wearing womens's clothes are common on carnival. No carnival party without guys in dresses, no carnival parade without male spectators dressed up in female attire.









No, it's not CSD, it's carnival. :)


Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2011, 03:54:39 am »
Brad Pitt on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine

Offline Monika

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2011, 08:54:51 am »
I posted a pic of Marc Jacobs earlier. He has experimented a lot with dresses for men

Offline southendmd

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Re: Letīs celebrate men in dresses
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2011, 09:04:44 am »
Noxeema Jackson: When a straight man puts on a dress and gets his sexual kicks, he is a transvestite. When a man is a woman trapped in a man's body and has a little operation he is a transsexual.  When a gay man has way too much fashion sense for one gender he is a drag queen.