Author Topic: Is the cinematic age of the Period piece gone? 2011's Three Musketeers (Read 14825 times)

delalluvia · « **on:** July 08, 2011, 02:51:57 pm »

Can't even begin to tell you how awful this looks. If you can take casting as a hint, check out who plays the Duke of Buckingham:

http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1451924505/

Can no history piece be done now - especially rollicking ones - without pandering to the teenage audiences with short-term attention spans?

Monika · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2011, 03:01:03 pm »

Quote from: delalluvia on July 08, 2011, 02:51:57 pm

Can't even begin to tell you how awful this looks. If you can take casting as a hint, check out who plays the Duke of Buckingham:

oh, who cares about Orlando Bloom when Matthew Macfadyen is in it??

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2011, 03:05:09 pm »

Stupid video wouldn't load for me.

I'm an old troll who lives in a cave. I recognized only four names on the cast list. $:-\$

I don't see anything wrong with Orlando Bloom as the duke of Buckingham. He's still pretty enough for the part. That was always Orlando's chief talent anyway, being pretty.

Meryl · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2011, 04:05:08 pm »

I didn't know there were so many opportunities for explosions in that time period. They mined them all.

It reminds me of the Robert Downey, Jr., Sherlock Holmes movie. Slick, sarcastic and swift, with nothing much to do with authenticity. They'll leave the hard work to Masterpiece Theater. In the meantime, Matthew Macfadyen, yay! Ray Stevenson, too. Anybody see him in HBO's "Rome"? Lovely. And Orlando is pretty and seems right at home. Not much of a stretch from the Pirates movies.

delalluvia · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:24:06 pm »

Quote from: Meryl on July 08, 2011, 04:05:08 pm

I didn't know there were so many opportunities for explosions in that time period. They mined them all.

It reminds me of the Robert Downey, Jr., Sherlock Holmes movie. Slick, sarcastic and swift, with nothing much to do with authenticity. They'll leave the hard work to Masterpiece Theater. In the meantime, Matthew Macfadyen, yay! Ray Stevenson, too. Anybody see him in HBO's "Rome"? Lovely. And Orlando is pretty and seems right at home. Not much of a stretch from the Pirates movies.

I didn't recognize MacFadyen - course, I never do unless he has the hair from Pride and Prejudice. Ray Stevenson's Titus Pullo in HBO's Rome was my man.

OK, so while that particular Duke of Buckingham has been referred to by historians as a 'peacock with a pretty face' and the 'darling' of a couple of English kings and Orlando fits the bill...I dunno, I guess you're right, not much of a stretch, except for the 'taking over the world' bit.

But ye gods, from what girls school did they find the actor who plays D'Artagnan?

delalluvia · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:31:23 pm »

Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 08, 2011, 03:05:09 pm

Stupid video wouldn't load for me.

I'm an old troll who lives in a cave. I recognized only four names on the cast list. $:-\$

I don't see anything wrong with Orlando Bloom as the duke of Buckingham. He's still pretty enough for the part. That was always Orlando's chief talent anyway, being pretty.

You didn't miss much,Jeff - except Matrix/Wanted-movie like stunts, women being 'expert' swordswomen and fighting in period dress and steampunk-like blimps firing guns at each other like pirate ships.

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:51:19 pm »

Quote from: delalluvia on July 08, 2011, 06:31:23 pm

You didn't miss much,Jeff - except Matrix/Wanted-movie like stunts, women being 'expert' swordswomen and fighting in period dress and steampunk-like blimps firing guns at each other like pirate ships.

Ye gods ... and goddesses. ...

Of course, I've seen plenty of women who are expert with a sword dueling in period dresses at SCA reenactment events. I once told a friend that she reminded me of the old line about Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers: She does everything her swordsman boyfriend does, but she does it in a corset and a dress.

delalluvia · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2011, 06:58:21 pm »

Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 08, 2011, 06:51:19 pm

Ye gods ... and goddesses. ...

Of course, I've seen plenty of women who are expert with a sword dueling in period dresses at SCA reenactment events. I once told a friend that she reminded me of the old line about Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers: She does everything her swordsman boyfriend does, but she does it in a corset and a dress.

Of course women can be expert swordswomen at SCA events in Period dress. But I'd hate to try it in real life, in a life and death match when an opponent can simply grasp your big skirt and trip you up.

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2011, 09:55:22 pm »

Quote from: delalluvia on July 08, 2011, 06:58:21 pm

Of course women can be expert swordswomen at SCA events in Period dress. But I'd hate to try it in real life, in a life and death match when an opponent can simply grasp your big skirt and trip you up.

Well, sure, if you just stand there and let him grab it.

delalluvia · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2011, 10:40:36 pm »

Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 08, 2011, 09:55:22 pm

Well, sure, if you just stand there and let him grab it.

Spoken like a man who hasn't worn a period dress. The dress doesn't always follow when and where you want it to.

serious crayons · « **Reply #10 on:** July 15, 2011, 10:19:07 am »

I glimpsed Christoph Waltz, too. I really like him.

Tell you what, I can't get all upset about the Michael-Bayization of a story that's been told a dozen times already. What else is there to do to make it new, besides put the latest pretty faces in the roles?

As for a woman dueling in period dress, I see where that would be be unrealistic -- the whole underlying point of upper-class women's dress throughout history, including today, is to hamper movement -- but I can't help applauding it. Not to get all political, but if we must target all of our movies at 14-year-old boys, let's at least offer them some sex-role enlightenment while we're at it.

But admittedly, I'm not exactly a Three Musketeers buff. In fact, I've never even understood why they're called the three Musketeers when there are four of them, and they don't seem to be armed with muskets.

Meryl · « **Reply #11 on:** July 15, 2011, 10:31:02 am »

Quote from: serious crayons on July 15, 2011, 10:19:07 am

But admittedly, I'm not exactly a Three Musketeers buff. In fact, I've never even understood why they're called the three Musketeers when there are four of them, and they don't seem to be armed with muskets.

Good point! I never thought much about that, but it's kind of a "hunh" thing.

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:11:12 am »

Quote from: serious crayons on July 15, 2011, 10:19:07 am

But admittedly, I'm not exactly a Three Musketeers buff. In fact, I've never even understood why they're called the three Musketeers when there are four of them, and they don't seem to be armed with muskets.

That puzzled me, too, when I was a kid and used to watch a Hanna-Barbera cartoon version. But you really have to go back to the novel for that. It takes something like half the book--maybe more--before D'Artagnan is admitted to the regiment. So there were only three for half the story, Porthos, Athos, and Aramis.

Remember the two movies from the early 70s?

The Three Musketeers: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072281/

The Four Musketeers: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073012/

Michael York (who has nothing to fear from Logan Lerman, or even Chris O'Donnel from the Disney version, for that matter) doesn't become a Musketeer until the end of the first film. In the scene where Porthos, Athos, and Aramis place the tabard on him, he is also handed a musket.

BTW, while double-checking at IMDb before I wrote this post, I discovered a sequel that I never heard of (or at least sure don't remember and never saw):

The Return of the Musketeers: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098194/

Interestingly enough, I also learned that the screen plays for all three films were written by George MacDonald Fraser. I've never gotten around to reading his Flashman novels, but I understand that they're very funny.

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:18:22 am »

I was going to answer the three/four question, but Jeff beat me to it! So I'll just say a little something about the period dress...those flowing shirts the men wore presented lots of opportunity to grab something too. I'll bet there were quite a few women who wore men's clothes to duel in, but if there wasn't time to change, they could duel in a dress (good title for a story?) or just cut off excess material with their swords. A dress would be good for concealing extra weapons too!! Maybe the corset might provide a bit of protection against glancing sword blows.

And our friend Jeff HAS worn forementioned flowing shirt so he knows a thing or two about this!!

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #14 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:19:51 am »

Somewhat relevant to this...I'm going to see the exhibition "Cowboys and Rock Stars" about the Rockmount Western Wear store that is at the Foothills Art Center in my town today!! Hopefully, they'll let me take pics!!

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:21:14 am »

Quote from: Tony-Ranger on July 15, 2011, 11:18:22 am

And our friend Jeff HAS worn forementioned flowing shirt so he knows a thing or two about this!!

When you're wearing one, it's very difficult to keep your sleeves out of the gravy at dinner.

delalluvia · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2011, 07:01:07 pm »

Quote from: Tony-Ranger on July 15, 2011, 11:18:22 am

I was going to answer the three/four question, but Jeff beat me to it! So I'll just say a little something about the period dress...those flowing shirts the men wore presented lots of opportunity to grab something too. I'll bet there were quite a few women who wore men's clothes to duel in, but if there wasn't time to change, they could duel in a dress (good title for a story?) or just cut off excess material with their swords. A dress would be good for concealing extra weapons too!! Maybe the corset might provide a bit of protection against glancing sword blows.

And our friend Jeff HAS worn forementioned flowing shirt so he knows a thing or two about this!!

Eh, shirt sleeves were tucked into gauntlets and the flowy shirts were not that flowy. Not compared to dress skirts and hoops.

While I find making a woman a jack of blades in a 21st century Three Musketeers movie OK to get the pubescent boys used to warrior women, leaving them in women's clothes fetishizes them, making them titillating as well. As a woman who has worn one, you can barely breathe and hardly bend at all in a boned bodice, much less do athletics in one.

I would have liked to have seen a twist on the story, making D'Artagnan a woman in mens' clothes.

Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 15, 2011, 11:11:12 am

That puzzled me, too, when I was a kid and used to watch a Hanna-Barbera cartoon version. But you really have to go back to the novel for that. It takes something like half the book--maybe more--before D'Artagnan is admitted to the regiment. So there were only three for half the story, Porthos, Athos, and Aramis.

Remember the two movies from the early 70s?

The Three Musketeers: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072281/

The Four Musketeers: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073012/

Michael York (who has nothing to fear from Logan Lerman, or even Chris O'Donnel from the Disney version, for that matter) doesn't become a Musketeer until the end of the first film. In the scene where Porthos, Athos, and Aramis place the tabard on him, he is also handed a musket.

Jeff beat us all to it. It was called The Three Musketeers because D'Artagnan wasn't a musketeer until the very end.

They do have muskets. In the versions I've seen, they usually fire the one shot a musket allows, then - rather than spend the next minute or so reloading - they toss the musket and pull their swords and take the fight up close.

There's a funny scene in the 1970's movie where a man is trying to defend his wife by loading a musket and the kidnappers just walk right up to him while he's going through the process.

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2011, 07:27:42 pm »

Quote from: delalluvia on July 15, 2011, 07:01:07 pm

There's a funny scene in the 1970's movie where a man is trying to defend his wife by loading a musket and the kidnappers just walk right up to him while he's going through the process.

It's been a while since I saw either film, though I have both in my library. I think I remember that scene--at least vaguely. It must have been Constance's husband.

I actually liked the second film better than the first one. In one thing, I actually wish the screenwriter had departed from his source material. I thought Raquel Welch was so good, so funny, as Constance, that I hated to see her murdered by Faye Dunaway.

Not being a SCAdian drag queen

I can't comment from personal experience, but I have heard several women in the SCA who are, er, rather well endowed, say that they find those boned "wench bodices" wonderfully supportive.

delalluvia · « **Reply #18 on:** July 15, 2011, 08:41:28 pm »

Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on July 15, 2011, 07:27:42 pm

It's been a while since I saw either film, though I have both in my library. I think I remember that scene--at least vaguely. It must have been Constance's husband.

Yep!

Quote

I actually liked the second film better than the first one. In one thing, I actually wish the screenwriter had departed from his source material. I thought Raquel Welch was so good, so funny, as Constance, that I hated to see her murdered by Faye Dunaway.

I love both equally. They have a DVD set of both movies with extras that I have on my Amazon wishlist I hope to afford soon. My love of dirty, rough sword-fighting came from watching those two movies and they're the standard to which I measure every other Three Musketeer movie that comes out.

Quote

Not being a SCAdian drag queen I can't comment from personal experience

No?!?!?

Say it ain't so!!

Quote

but I have heard several women in the SCA who are, er, rather well endowed, say that they find those boned "wench bodices" wonderfully supportive.

They are wonderfully supportive. Wonderfully supportive and comfortable and flexible are not the same things, however.

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #19 on:** July 15, 2011, 09:21:46 pm »

Quote from: delalluvia on July 15, 2011, 08:41:28 pm

I love both equally. They have a DVD set of both movies with extras that I have on my Amazon wishlist I hope to afford soon. My love of dirty, rough sword-fighting came from watching those two movies and they're the standard to which I measure every other Three Musketeer movie that comes out.

I am happy to say I agree with you, hunnerd percent.

I have a boxed set of the two on VHS tape. I'm sure it would be a Good Thing to have them on DVD.

I'm now really intrigued to hunt down the sequel that I mentioned earlier. I know I can't remember sh*t anymore, but I have absolutely no recollection of ever even having heard of it.

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2011, 01:36:49 pm »

I don't understand movie theaters.

The theater where I saw Cowboys and Aliens this summer had a poster advertising The Three Musketeers. But now that The Three Musketeers is opening today, the movie isn't showing in the theater where I saw the poster when I went to see Cowboys and Aliens.

I have read not one good word about The Three Musketeers, but I would see it anyway for the hot guys with long swords

and the costumes. However, the only theater where it's playing that is accessible to me would require a subway ride that I would not want to make alone after rush hour. $:-\$

I guess I'll end up waiting till The Three Musketeers shows up in the used DVD rack at the Rite-Aid.

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2011, 03:36:49 pm »

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVtGE-bHTg[/youtube]

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2011, 03:44:16 pm »

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thJiAITu1-4[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMhwGUGNuxI&feature=related[/youtube]

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2011, 04:03:09 pm »

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj2szArNmjI[/youtube]

&feature

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2011, 04:08:48 pm »

Love the nuns.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9uGy3LlNeI&feature=related[/youtube]

delalluvia · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2011, 07:39:36 pm »

Quote from: Aloysius J. Ghoul on October 21, 2011, 04:03:09 pm

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj2szArNmjI[/youtube]
&feature

One of my favorite scenes:
"When you beat the rascal for - insolence - his screams shall scarcely be heard."

The 70's movie made a point to show the disparity between the classes and regional prejudice. D'artagnan's servant is indeed considered and treated by him and others as a lesser creature. He himself is disparaged for being a "bumpkin" and a Gascon from the Gascony region of France.

delalluvia · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2011, 07:40:57 pm »

Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on October 21, 2011, 01:36:49 pm

I don't understand movie theaters.

The theater where I saw Cowboys and Aliens this summer had a poster advertising The Three Musketeers. But now that The Three Musketeers is opening today, the movie isn't showing in the theater where I saw the poster when I went to see Cowboys and Aliens.

I have read not one good word about The Three Musketeers, but I would see it anyway for the hot guys with long swords and the costumes. However, the only theater where it's playing that is accessible to me would require a subway ride that I would not want to make alone after rush hour. $:-\$

They pull movies all the time. For various reasons. Remember that Utah theater that advertised BBM before the owner found out what it was about and pulled it? Showing Saw 2, I think it was, instead?

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #27 on:** October 22, 2011, 12:45:43 am »

Quote from: delalluvia on October 21, 2011, 07:39:36 pm

One of my favorite scenes:
"When you beat the rascal for - insolence - his screams shall scarcely be heard."

The 70's movie made a point to show the disparity between the classes and regional prejudice. D'artagnan's servant is indeed considered and treated by him and others as a lesser creature. He himself is disparaged for being a "bumpkin" and a Gascon from the Gascony region of France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Musketeers

The Three Musketeers (Les Trois Mousquetaires) is a novel by Alexandre Dumas, first serialized in March–July 1844.

Musketeers' servants

Planchet (D'Artagnan)

Grimaud (Athos) – a Breton, trained to speak only in emergencies and who mostly communicates through sign language.

Mousqueton (Porthos) – he was originally a Norman named Boniface, however Porthos changed his name to one that sounded better. He is a would-be dandy, just as vain as his master. In lieu of pay, he is clothed and lodged in manner superior to that usual for servants, dressing grandly in his master's old clothes.

Bazin (Aramis) – from the province of Berry, Bazin is a pious man who waits for the day his master will join the church, as he has always dreamed of serving a priest.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Three_Musketeers_(1973_film)

The Three Musketeers (1973)
Directed by Richard Lester, written by George Macdonald Fraser.

[D'Artagnan has relieved Rochefort of his pass to England]

Sea Captain: But this pass is only for one person.
D'Artagnan: [Michael York] I am only one person. [Indicating Planchet, Roy Kinnear] This is a servant!
Sea Captain: I see. All right.

(In The Return of the Musketeers (1989) character actor Roy Kinnear died following an on-camera accident in which he fell off a horse. His role was completed by using a stand-in, filmed from the rear, and dubbed-in lines from a voice artist. Close friend, director Richard Lester unofficially retired as a result.)

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #28 on:** October 22, 2011, 02:05:06 am »

Featuring
Roy Kinnear as Planchet
(D'Artagnan's servant)

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aezX4lxCaCw&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uf72u8xeVE&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QBKBEKMzAw[/youtube]

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2011, 02:15:04 am »

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAzdWNo9sbk&feature=related[/youtube]

&feature=related

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #30 on:** October 22, 2011, 02:21:43 am »

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWKuHB0eqGQ&feature=related[/youtube]

&feature=related

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #31 on:** October 22, 2011, 12:10:16 pm »

Quote from: Aloysius J. Ghoul on October 22, 2011, 12:45:43 am

The Return of the Musketeers (1989)

Must make myself a note to try to track that one down. I've never seen it.

delalluvia · « **Reply #32 on:** October 22, 2011, 12:57:08 pm »

Quote from: Aloysius J. Ghoul on October 22, 2011, 02:05:06 am

Featuring
Roy Kinnear as Planchet
(D'Artagnan's servant)
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aezX4lxCaCw&feature=related[/youtube]

Another favorite scene.

Note that the Musketeers are very clearly and accurately, using muskets.

Again, poor Planchet is put-upon to not only carry and serve the food, but to reload their weapons And a great commentary on the religious wars.

The movie The Four Musketeers starts with a voiceover from a much older Porthos where he talks about the French Catholics fighting against their fellow French Protestants at LaRochelle.

"We were teaching them the meaning of Christian charity by bombarding them into submission, what!"

And this scene shows the ludicrousness of religious wars is plain even to the Musketeers:

Porthos: Why are we killing these poor devils for anyway? Just because they sing their hymns in French and we sing ours in Latin?
Aramis: My dear Porthos, are you that uneducated? That's what religious wars are all about.

Aloysius J. Gleek · « **Reply #33 on:** October 22, 2011, 06:19:06 pm »

One of my favorite scenes (and I haven't seen the movie in more than thirty years!)--at the Cardinal's instigation, Louis is demanding his Queen
(Anne of Austria) wear his gift of the diamond studs she has secretly given to the Duke of Buckingham. The scene, with the King and Queen and
the courtiers (except for Richelieu) all in silver and white, is sumptuously gorgeous, but as always with the Lester-ian comedic element: the King
is picking hors d'oeuvres from silver trays strapped to the heads of court dwarfs, who are also dressed in silver, and the dwarfs, being ignored by
the court, are quietly fighting among themselves immediately below: "He (the King) picked from my tray!" "No, from me!"

Hilarious!

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #34 on:** October 22, 2011, 10:43:43 pm »

This film taught me how (intentionally) funny Raquel Welch could be--such as in the scene where the musketeers come to rescue her, and she drops the key down her bosom, making it impossible for anyone to reach it, so she jumps up and down until the key falls out from under her skirt.

Jeff Wrangler · « **Reply #35 on:** October 24, 2011, 09:11:49 am »

As a boy of 10 years in 1968, this was my favorite rendering of The Three Musketeers.

http://www.bcdb.com/cartoons/Hanna-Barbera_Studios/A-C/The_Banana_Splits_Adventure_Hour/The_Three_Musketeers/index.html

Seriously, I believe it was memories of this cartoon that, almost thirty years later, got me interested in the Society for Creative Anachronism and the Renaissance Faire scene.

Hey, something is responsible for my fascination with hot guys in tight pants with long swords!

Edit to Add: Last year I came across an eBay listing for a videotape of a couple of the Musketeer episodes. It was a buy-it-now deal. To make sure this was, indeed, episodes of my long-remembered cartoon favorite, I contacted the seller before buying it. She tried to check the tape, but unfortunately, the tape broke in the process, so there was no deal. I'd still love to have videos of those cartoons some day.

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Author Topic: Is the cinematic age of the Period piece gone? 2011's Three Musketeers (Read 14825 times)