The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?

[Front-Ranger]

Rock Hudson was a romantic star, but he was no longer playing those sorts of roles by the time he was fully out, as opposed to rumored-about. And NPH isn't the equivalent of a matinee idol like, say, George Clooney or Tom Cruise or Megan Fox or whoever.

Rock Hudson never came out in his lifetime. He did admit contracting AIDs but said he must have gotten it from a blood transfusion.

[milomorris]

Two of them are a married couple I've known since the 90s, their three kids call me "Uncle Chuck", and they frequently ask me to join them at their church, which is open and affirming with a large gay membership, in the hopes that I'll meet someone.

This is off-topic, but I just wanted to encourage you to go to church with your friends. Church is a great place to make new friends and establish relationships whether they be romantic or platonic. I have known several people who fell in love with someone they met at church. Just go, and let things fall into place.

[milomorris]

Responses to my original posting regarding why we should even expect Hollywood to make gay-friendly movies have ranged from "very harsh" to " bigoted" and "a patent falsehood."  I'll accept "harsh," but bad news often is.

I think we BetterMost members live on islands of toleration that are not general, not worldwide, and not as solid as we might like to believe.  I live in Toronto, which is to gay Canadians what San Francisco is to gay Americans.  We have had same-sex marriage since 2003, and federally across Canada since 2005.  Yet even today in Toronto high schools the major cause of bullying is perceived sexual orientation.  And we continue to have gay-bashings, although not often.  What is it like where you are?  Now think of the rest of the world--Russia and its anti-gay law so much in the news, countries where being gay subjects you to long imprisonment or death.  And these are just the worst examples.

Gay film makers are now making movies with happy endings and abandoning the gay-as-tortured-victim motif so common to movies of the past.  I applaud this, but still I wonder.  Perhaps BBM had it right all along.  Joe Aguirre threw Jack out of his office when he came looking for a job that second summer.  Alma told Ennis, "Jack Twist, Jack nasty."  Ennis' father forced 9-year old Ennis to look at the battered, old, dead cowboy in order to teach him a lesson.  And, of course, Jack was beaten to death in the same way, leaving Ennis to face a meaningless future.  Are things now really so different on the larger scale than they were in BBM days?

You're right. Bad news is often harsh.

But I have had a lifetime of other blacks telling me the world is more harsh than it actually is. And while I cannot deny or refute the fact that bigotry against minorities--sexual or ethnic--exists, there is some considerable distance between being aware of such bigotry, and living one's life as if everyone in the "other" group is automatically going to hate you.

My parents and grandparents grew up in South Carolina under Jim Crow. My head is full of stories of racist experiences and behaviors. But my folks never taught me to be afraid of white people. They DID teach me to keep both eyes open, and because I took that advice, I was able to see that there are many wonderful white folks out there--people whom I respect and care for deeply. The same can be said for many of the heterosexuals in my sphere.

You ask if things are different now than they were in BBM days. I'd say that the answer is yes. Black men still make up the largest number of hate-crime victims, and sexual minorities still get abused. But things are a far cry better now for both groups than they were in 1963. And I can say that as someone who does not live on an island of tolerance. About three years ago, my partner and I moved from Philadelphia to a rural town in Pennsylvania--a state with a reputation for having a large number of "hate groups." The people I've met out here can plainly see that I'm black, and most of them know that I'm in love with a man. So far, so good.

[CellarDweller]

This is off-topic, but I just wanted to encourage you to go to church with your friends. Church is a great place to make new friends and establish relationships whether they be romantic or platonic. I have known several people who fell in love with someone they met at church. Just go, and let things fall into place.

I'm a little hesitant, but not for the reasons one may suspect.

I was raised in the Catholic church, so I'm no stranger to a Sunday mass.  I have a personal relationship with God even though I don't go to church on a regular basis.  That being said (and I don't mean this to sound cocky) I have enough friends.  It's getting to the point that I'm always getting calls for dinner, to hang out, go dancing, and other functions, and I'm very happy to be asked.  To me, it seems "wrong" to join any church with the thought "I'll find a man there!"    I think most people go to church to develop bonds with like-minded people, and to develop a relationship with God.  I already have both.  It may seem stupid, but I'd feel like I'm using religion to find a man, and that doesn't feel right to me.  I could be wrong....but that's how I feel.  I have been thinking about it more lately.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I didn't want Milo's post to go unanswered.

[serious crayons]

One big reason people join churches, though, is for the community and social support. My aunt, a single woman in her 70s, advised me to consider joining one for that reason. And I may take her advice.

tt would be Unitarian, in my case. I'm not Christian, and I'm agnostic. But Unitarians are OK with both of those.

My mom was involved in the Unitarian church, and when she started showing signs of Alzhemer's, her pastor stepped up and got ahold of me to try to help her. When she died, years on years later, having not been involved in the church for years on years (she had moved out of state), the new pastor, who had never even met her, delivered an amazing eulogy, and the church ladies helped put together a really nice memorial service for her.

That's how I realized that churches, even relatively heathen ones like the Unitarians, serve a really important social function.

Sometimes I feel like I have enough friends. But as an aging single person, I also feel like never enough friends, never enough.

[Jeff Wrangler]

One big reason people join churches, though, is for the community and social support. My aunt, a single woman in her 70s, advised me to consider joining one for that reason. And I may take her advice.

Once upon a time, I gave that advice, too.   Churches can be gateways to all sorts of social services, and they often have "social ministry" committees that can even provide some of the services (e.g., picking up groceries for you if you are home recovering from surgery). For someone like Chuck, from a close family with siblings nearby, that may not be an important consideration. For an aging single person like myself, with no siblings and no children, it may become very important.

[Luvlylittlewing]

One big reason people join churches, though, is for the community and social support. My aunt, a single woman in her 70s, advised me to consider joining one for that reason. And I may take her advice.

tt would be Unitarian, in my case. I'm not Christian, and I'm agnostic. But Unitarians are OK with both of those.

My mom was involved in the Unitarian church, and when she started showing signs of Alzhemer's, her pastor stepped up and got ahold of me to try to help her. When she died, years on years later, having not been involved in the church for years on years (she had moved out of state), the new pastor, who had never even met her, delivered an amazing eulogy, and the church ladies helped put together a really nice memorial service for her.

That's how I realized that churches, even relatively heathen ones like the Unitarians, serve a really important social function.

Sometimes I feel like I have enough friends. But as an aging single person, I also feel like never enough friends, never enough.

I've been involved with one of Oakland's Unitarian churches for a few months now.  My daughter and I attended sort of an a whim and we fell in love.  We enjoyed how all faiths, races and cultures are accepted and welcomed.  The first time we stepped through the doors we we delighted with the racial diversity.  After service we had coffee and baked goods with some of the members and were treated with such acceptance and warmth.  I was touched to see an unusually beautiful gay couple whose adopted children were being cuddled and cooed by the pastors and parishioners alike.  I still attend the Church of God in Christ where I was raised, but I make it a point to visit the Unitarian Church several times a month.

I'm not exactly close to my church families, but I don't know what I would do without them.  When I'm in need I know I can go to my church(es) to get help.  The support churches offer is almost unparalleled. 


 

[brianr]

I have found this conversation interesting but I am travelling and dependent on motel wifi.
I understand where X-man is coming from (someone on here actually older than me )
When we were young to have gay sex was illegal and although things were becoming easier for me, being a teacher, any arrest would have meant instant dismissal. Therefore we learnt to hide our sexuality.
However it is now so much better. I was open as a teacher in a senior Catholic boys school in the 1980's. With a sympathetic Principal (a religious brother) it was possible though I sometimes look back and cannot believe how I survived.  Actually the advent of AIDS made it more difficult and I had difficulty with some students. Now I occasionally get emails from ex-students, sometimes anonymous, thanking me as it helped them deal with their sexuality.
I moved in the 90's to a junior school and kept quiet though some students have since told me my sexuality was common gossip.

A year ago I met a guy in his 20's and said "I do not walk into a room and say Hi I'm gay" His reply was "I do"
Perhaps I do not have to. I was talking to a lady who has just joined our movie group last week as we were sitting together at coffee afterwards. I discovered she is involved in my church but a different parish. In discussion I said "I'm gay" and she patted my arm and said "I realise that dearie"  Oh!!!

My adopted country has just had the first same-sex marriages last Monday and the news was full showing celebrations with just one negative interview.
There is a new guy in my walking group. Jim there are not many guys so he has linked up with me. Married, 3 children and several grandchildren. Again at coffee I overheard him talking to one of the women (who would know I was gay) His comment to her was something like. "Why shouldn't it happen it has been going on all of history."
I generally find it harder to come out to men than women.

The leader of the opposition has just resigned and his deputy is gay. he is in the running to succeed but probably not. I heard one commentator say "of course he woud be the first gay leader of the opposition (thus potential prime minister) but that should not be a problem.

Church is very important to me. Where I lived in Australia is one of the most homophobic Anglican dioceses in the world. I realised early on that the proesthood would be a disaster. Several freinds committed suicide including one priest (many years ago now)
I travelled 2 hours each way by train on Sundays to attend one of the few inclusive churches in the Diocese. It was a major (but not only) reason for moving 3000 km to live. The Dunedin Diocese has several gay priests and one openly partnered priest. His ordination caused a stir and the bishop went against the rules. The new bishop, who is a friend, is supportive of gay acceptance but will not go against the church rules. While I have heard him preach in favour of gay acceptance before he became bishop he is more careful now. He is afraid of antagonising the conservatives.
The Anglican church of New Zeland is to decide whether to support same sex marriage and to officially ordain gay priests next May. I am afraid the conservatives are making too much noise. I plan to tell my vicar and bishop that if the vote goes against us I may leave the church, take my financial support away and change my will. However it is important for me to partake of the Eucharist every Sunday, so that would be very difficult.  However I think we must begin to fight fire with fire.

[x-man]

Brian, Besides being older, we share more--involvement in the church, teaching, and having experienced the oppression  of times past.  In my case I don't know if that makes me an eminence grise or a bitter old man.  Some replies to my postings above would suggest the latter; I hope not.  I promised to back off, but here I may again have to set the cat amongst the pigeons.

I am an ex-Catholic and ex-seminarian.  (I left seminary at the beginning of my final year.)  I put up with years of guilt and denial--but with frequent fallings from grace--in the confessional.  I eventually understood that there was nothing wrong with jerking off, gay sex, or any sex that was consensual and non-exploitative, but I wondered how I would deal with my own understandings and my penitents' feelings of sin and guilt as a priest.  Friends, have no doubt:  for the Catholic and Orthodox Churches and a large part of the Protestant world, such behaviour is mortal sin.  For Catholics and Orthodox at least, this will not change.  It is dogma.  When Pope Francis says that gays should not be marginalized he means IF they give up actually having sex.  No thanks.

One day I woke up and asked myself, "Why do I want to belong to an organization that believes I am sick and sinful for something that goes to the core of my being."  So I just left, and I don't look back.  I do shake my head to wonder why I put up with it for so long.  I am bitter about so many missed opportunities for love and sex that will never come again.  My advice to you younger folks is get as much love and sex as you can NOW.  Don't let anyone try to stop you.

[x-man]

When I said "...but here I may have to set the cat amongst the pigeons" I misspoke.  What I meant to say was that "I am afraid I might set the cat..."  Sorry.