Author Topic: "You're good enough"  (Read 9718 times)

Offline Sheriff Roland

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"You're good enough"
« on: October 16, 2006, 09:45:27 pm »
After Junior said those words (in the movie, of course) Casie responds with something like "You don't say much, but you get your point accross."
Does anybody know what that point might be? Or could somebody direct me to the thread on which this subject has been discussed already?

Just finished watching the movie (again), and would very  much like to hear opinions as to the significance of this exchange (other than, like father, like daughter).

Thanks y'all

Roland
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Offline wulfar360

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2006, 09:48:55 pm »
i think she ment that  junior got her point across   that cassie was good nuff to marry her dad another  words   cassie had juniors blessing  but he just wasnt "teh marrrying kind"
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injest

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2006, 09:51:37 pm »
wellllll...I always thought that Junior knew that Ennis was gay. So to me it was always an unfinished sentence...I can almost hear the ending..."You are good enough but my father is gay...so no matter how good you are, he is looking for what you can not give him"


injest

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2006, 09:52:37 pm »
oops - wrong place - I'm rewriting this in Open Forum (where I thought I was - will be deleting this thread in a few minutes)

wha?? and lose my pearl of wisdom????  :P

injest

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2006, 09:54:30 pm »
man...I just had an out of body experience...

where am I??

*Jess clicking her heels together*

There's no place like home...there's no place like home...

injest

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 09:56:06 pm »
LOL!! You drug me with the thread!! How fun....

*Jess not waiting for Roland to put her back where he found her*

bye!

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 09:58:51 pm »
wellllll...I always thought that Junior knew that Ennis was gay. So to me it was always an unfinished sentence...I can almost hear the ending..."You are good enough but my father is gay...so no matter how good you are, he is looking for what you can not give him"



Sorry Jess, maybe I didn't ask the right question. Cassie seems to understand what Junior says: ("You get your point accross") If the "point" is that her daddy's gay, then what "point" is Casie confirming to have have undertood? - Don't think that "my daddy is gay" is the message that Cassie caught...
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 10:01:01 pm »
Sorry Jess, maybe I didn't ask the right question. Cassie seems to understand what Junior says: ("You get your point accross") If the "point" is that her daddy's gay, then what "point" is Casie confirming to have have undertood? - Don't think that "my daddy is gay" is the message that Cassie caught...
No becase later she says "I don't get you Ennis Del Mar"
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 10:12:03 pm »
man...I just had an out of body experience...

where am I??

*Jess clicking her heels together*

There's no place like home...there's no place like home...

re: "There's no place like home...there's no place like home"

Jess! You fibber!! - you spend a lot of time on other forums (admin for one, not to mention ALL the time you spend checking out the images on that little "Anything Goes" forum)

Will anyone ever believe you ever again *chorkle* *nasty larf* ** tee-hee-hee!  :laugh:
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2006, 11:44:10 am »
Back on topic...being told "You're good enough" is sort of like getting a C in school. Not an outright insult, but it isn't going to make anybody feel very confident in their abilities/attributes. So, Jr. gets her point across, basically saying like Aguirre did, "You're wasting your time here." She gets her point across but Cassie, with no better prospects, doesn't accept it.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2006, 09:57:37 pm »
Thanks Lee. Your suggestion that "but Cassie, with no better prospects, doesn't accept it" is the best explanation I've heard so far to her happy acceptance of Juniors's evaluation of the situation - but Cassie's gorgeous - it's hard to believe that she can't do better than "unimpressed" Ennis for herself.
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injest

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2006, 11:23:31 pm »
*Jess ON TOPIC and being VERY VERY serious and intellectual*

Well, I would think, if you are in fact considering the 'message' that Cassie got when Alma Jr. told her "Your good enough" then as the daughter of a divorced couple I would conjecture that she got "Your good enough but I don't care for you" 

Would not bother Cassie a bit...what difference does Alma's reaction make to her?

I think Junior was being a tad tacky to Cassie.

And in a small town in the middle of nowhere, you could be the most beautiful woman on the planet...if there are no men it won't do you a bit of good.


injest

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2006, 11:29:04 pm »
re: "There's no place like home...there's no place like home"

Jess! You fibber!! - you spend a lot of time on other forums (admin for one, not to mention ALL the time you spend checking out the images on that little "Anything Goes" forum)

Will anyone ever believe you ever again *chorkle* *nasty larf* ** tee-hee-hee!  :laugh:

I am SURE I don't have ANY idea what you might be talking about!!

*Jess gathers up her fur stole and storms dramatically from the thread*

Offline Lynne

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2006, 12:09:56 am »
I've always taken this interchange between Junior and Cassie in a way similar to what Jess said:

"You are good enough but my father is gay...so no matter how good you are, he is looking for what you can not give him"

I am firmly in the 'Junior knew her Dad was gay camp.'

But to me, it's almost like they're having two separate conversations.  Cassie saying 'You get your point across' implies that Cassie understands Junior, when clearly she doesn't.  I think Cassie is hearing something that Junior is not saying - 'no one's really good enough for my dad, but you'll do.'

Cassie dragging Ennis off to dance in the next sequence seems to confirm that she really doesn't understand him at all.  It's enough to make me feel sorry for Cassie, footwear notwithstanding.  :)
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2006, 11:13:59 pm »
Back on topic...being told "You're good enough" is sort of like getting a C in school. Not an outright insult, but it isn't going to make anybody feel very confident in their abilities/attributes. So, Jr. gets her point across, basically saying like Aguirre did, "You're wasting your time here." She gets her point across but Cassie, with no better prospects, doesn't accept it.

I think Cassie takes it as an insult.  I feel like her determination to dance with Ennis **right then** even though Ennis had no interest was Cassie's passive aggressive way of responding.  I think, like many of you have said, that it's hard to tell whether Alma Jr. is demonstrating a dislike for Cassie because she understands that Ennis is gay at this point or for reasons tied to her feelings about Ennis's divorce from Alma.  I think Alma Jr. is also mad because Cassie is one more distraction that means Ennis has even less time to devote to his daughters.  I feel like we can see Alma Jr.'s face and demeanor change when she sees Cassie in the truck when Ennis comes to pick her up.  Alma Jr. knows that she won't be getting Ennis's un-divided attention during this visit.  I think the "good enough" comment might be infused with a little bit of all these issues.

And for the record, I do think that Alma Jr. knew about Ennis... but I'm not sure when she figured it out.   I feel sure she knows by the end, but it's certainly not clear to me how old she was when she first understood.  All of this is part of that pesky "space"... between what we know and believe.
 :-\
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Offline Lynne

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2006, 02:18:30 am »
I feel like we can see Alma Jr.'s face and demeanor change when she sees Cassie in the truck when Ennis comes to pick her up.  Alma Jr. knows that she won't be getting Ennis's un-divided attention during this visit.  I think the "good enough" comment might be infused with a little bit of all these issues.
...
All of this is part of that pesky "space"... between what we know and believe.

Amanda - you are entirely correct about Junior's disappointment when seeing Cassie is along for her outing with her Dad.  There is no question in my mind about that.  I guess I'm just unclear about the 'why'...Is it because she wants some undivided time to broach the subject of her moving in with Dad? or is it a general dislike of having 'their' time infringed upon?

That pesky 'space'....will we ever think of any psychic or emotional disconnects again without thinking of it???  Sure hope not, myseslf.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2006, 04:51:12 am »
And for the record, I do think that Alma Jr. knew about Ennis... but I'm not sure when she figured it out.   I feel sure she knows by the end, but it's certainly not clear to me how old she was when she first understood.  All of this is part of that pesky "space"... between what we know and believe.
 :-\

I am of the camp that the girls could hear it all from the living room on Thanksgiving.  They were only about 15 feet away, and their mom and dad were out there alone together, yet overhearable.  What kids of divorce wouldn't be listening as best they could?  And then afterward, "Mom, what were you and Daddy so upset about?"  "Jack Nasty..." 

Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2006, 07:39:51 am »
I am of the camp that the girls could hear it all from the living room on Thanksgiving.  They were only about 15 feet away, and their mom and dad were out there alone together, yet overhearable.  What kids of divorce wouldn't be listening as best they could?  And then afterward, "Mom, what were you and Daddy so upset about?"  "Jack Nasty..." 
Geez I LOVE this Board

Nearly a year later, and I still have nit pickin' questions and members, little by little provide me with more insight, that I should have gotten, but didn't.

Thanks y'all
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Offline opinionista

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2006, 07:49:40 am »
wellllll...I always thought that Junior knew that Ennis was gay. So to me it was always an unfinished sentence...I can almost hear the ending..."You are good enough but my father is gay...so no matter how good you are, he is looking for what you can not give him"



I agree with Jess here. I also think Alma Jr. knew or suspect her father wasn't into women. So when she says to Cassie you're good enough, but he's not the marrying kind she means, "if he were into women you'll be perfect, but I don't think he is." If she meant something else, then why would she add the "he isn't the marrying kind" part? She lowers her face when she says that part. I thought she was a bit embarrased. Alma Jr was worried about her father being alone, yet she knew her dad wasn't happy in the company of women. I think that's why she asks him if she can go live with him. I didn't buy her excuse about her mother and Monroe being stritct with her. She knew her father needed help and company. So, IMO if she thought her dad was straight she'd be happy with the idea of Cassie becoming his wife, but she knew that couldn't be and probably imagine Cassie was going to suffer just like her mother did. She was honest when she says to Cassie that she didn't mean to be rude. She was just trying to make a point with out directly telling Cassie what was really going on

« Last Edit: October 19, 2006, 08:07:36 am by opinionista »
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Offline David

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2006, 08:01:15 am »
I don't think Junior ( or Cassie) knew Ennis was gay.

Often family members are blind to the thought because they love the person so much.    As a gay Teen, I spent alot of time with my Aunt on vacations.   She was a lesbian but I never knew it.    It was only after her funeral that all these other lesbians showed up that I was shocked!     How could I of all people miss that?   Denial?   

My parents had suspected all these years.    But I didn't despite all the clues.   I loved her for who she was.   Her being single all her life was not unusual to me.   To me she was just this non-feminine, athletic, lonely spinster living with 30 or 40 cats.    Go figure.

So I think it is possible that Junior didn't know.    Perhaps she was clinging to the idea her Dad and Mom would get back together eventually?   A lot of kids of divorces wish that.    After she married Monroe however, that hope was dashed.   Then Cassie was just "good enough" yet still in the way of her time with Ennis.

Cassies "I don't get you Ennis DelMar" certainly confirms that she had no clue.   Alot of girls who suspect a boyfriend is gay will dismiss the idea because the guy is having sex with them.   They figure :"If he was gay he wouldn't want sex right?"   Trust me,  I have heard that exclaimed from girls before!

injest

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2006, 08:11:44 am »
but a relative you see occassionally is different from living with a person. As passive/aggresive and angry as Alma was, I cannot imagine that she didn't talk to her sister or make little comments here and there about Ennis going off with Jack so much. Parents tend to think of their kids as nonpersons when it comes to overhearing things...they are always there so we tend to forget they are listening.

and after the scene at Thanksgiving, you notice that little Jenny doesn't show up again...hmmmm??

Offline opinionista

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2006, 08:21:52 am »
I don't think Junior ( or Cassie) knew Ennis was gay.

Often family members are blind to the thought because they love the person so much.    As a gay Teen, I spent alot of time with my Aunt on vacations.   She was a lesbian but I never knew it.    It was only after her funeral that all these other lesbians showed up that I was shocked!     How could I of all people miss that?   Denial?   

My parents had suspected all these years.    But I didn't despite all the clues.   I loved her for who she was.   Her being single all her life was not unusual to me.   To me she was just this non-feminine, athletic, lonely spinster living with 30 or 40 cats.    Go figure.

So I think it is possible that Junior didn't know.    Perhaps she was clinging to the idea her Dad and Mom would get back together eventually?   A lot of kids of divorces wish that.    After she married Monroe however, that hope was dashed.   Then Cassie was just "good enough" yet still in the way of her time with Ennis.

Cassies "I don't get you Ennis DelMar" certainly confirms that she had no clue.   Alot of girls who suspect a boyfriend is gay will dismiss the idea because the guy is having sex with them.   They figure :"If he was gay he wouldn't want sex right?"   Trust me,  I have heard that exclaimed from girls before!

I think Alma jr's case was different because of Alma. We don't get enough information about how Alma really reacted to Ennis's fishing trips, when Ennis wasn't around. But children hear and sense stuff, and they usually know more about their parents than most people believe. And I think they show it in the movie, when Ennis comes home from the Motel Siesta to pick up his stuff and tells  Alma he's going "fishing". Alma Junior, who was about three years old at the moment, apparently overhears the entire conversation, because she comes out running asking her dad to bring her a big fish. And it looked like she just hopped out from bed, because she was still wearing her pjs. So I can easily imagine her as she grows up overhearing Alma crying or their fight during the thanksgiving dinner. I have a hearing disability so I could not do this when I was a kid, but my sister used to overhear every single conversation and fight my parents had before divorcing. She knew more or less what was going on.

It's possible that she didn't quite understad what was happening to Ennis and what was the deal with Jack Twist, but she must have known there was something going on, because she knew her father wasn't the marrying kind. I don't think she wanted her parents to be back together not after so many years divorced.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2006, 08:24:33 am by opinionista »
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline nakymaton

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2006, 08:28:44 am »
I think that Cassie not only is unaware that Ennis is gay, but also thinks that his indifference means that something is wrong with her. So whether Junior knows that Ennis is gay -- and David has a really good point, though maybe it's possible that she doesn't consider the possibility that he's gay, but she's somehow aware that he really isn't into women? -- that's not the point that Cassie gets.

And in a way, her dragging him onto the floor to dance could be another way that she keeps trying harder to be "the one."

By the way, did you notice how Cassie seems to get, hmmm, more drab or something as time goes on? I mean, Cassie's incredibly gorgeous and vivaceous the first time we see her, and she's got this spring to her (or maybe that's just the work she puts into her hair). But later on, her hair gets less curly, and she gradually looks less and less perky.

In a way, it's kind of like what happens to Lureen -- she gets less and less attractive as time goes by. And it isn't age, in particular... it's the way she becomes harder and more brittle.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2006, 05:50:59 pm »
By the way, did you notice how Cassie seems to get, hmmm, more drab or something as time goes on? I mean, Cassie's incredibly gorgeous and vivaceous the first time we see her, and she's got this spring to her (or maybe that's just the work she puts into her hair). But later on, her hair gets less curly, and she gradually looks less and less perky.

A little OT, but my kids were watching Scooby Doo the other day and I happened through the room and said, "Who is that playing Velma? She looks so familiar!" For some reason the actress reminded me faintly of BBM, but she didn't look much like Michelle Williams and not at all like Anne Hathaway ... Well, you guessed it.

Here's what Cassie would look like after a few more years with Ennis. I mean the one in red. A few years more, and she'd be the one in green.  :laugh:


Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2006, 07:27:47 pm »
Sign seen in Casper: Reelect Keith Goodenough. I kid you not!
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "You're good enough"
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2007, 02:16:48 pm »
Bumping another oldie-but-goodie.
 :)
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