Free Fall - Freier Fall

[morrobay]

Great - new conversations!  Off to read your thoughts about the last few pages.

[morrobay]

Yes.  This is where we see again the selfish side of Marc.. me, not really.  that was cold.  V.

I know, I felt so bad for Kay.  And then he offers his apartment key to Marc.  Granted, Kay would also get something out of it if/when Marc came over since they would make love; still, the gesture says a lot about Kay and his feelings.  You don't do something like that, open up your life and your home, if you're just out for sex.  It also implies that Kay is prepared to be monogamous with Marc.

[morrobay]

The club scene, while I get it, maybe I'm just too old but they felt a bit out of place.  I always pictured the club scenes, and from the ones I've seen, to cater to the younger crowds.  Both Marc and Kay, at least for me, seem in the late 20's and a bit more mature to need the "clubbing"...  I think this was done for effect to show how far Kay could coax Marc into shifting.. ..perhaps? 

Yes, I can see your point about the locker room.. is this birth celebration hurting Kay?  But I felt, knowing what we've seen it was more Marc concerned about Marc.. V.

You're probably right, about clubbing being for younger crowds.  I've also read reviews and comments that it was a very stereotypical gay thing to show, idk about that side of it.  Also the drug use was brought up as an unnecessary stereotype; but it also shows a lot about the relationship between these 2 specific men.  As you said: to see how far Kay could push Marc, both into doing things that he usually didn't do, and what he would do for Kay.

[morrobay]

Vincent, I just noticed your signature line - couldn't be more appropriate for this thread.  Is it about this movie?

[mariska]

Yes.  This is where we see again the selfish side of Marc.. me, not really.  that was cold.  V.

Yes, it was kind of cold. But don't forget that Kay is a free man and Marc has a relationship and is a father-to-be. A huge responsibility. I think at this point Marc doesn't want to think about choices, leaving his family is no option yet. He wants everything the way it is now en he feels threatened by kay's question.
Also I think at this time Marc didn't realise how important Kay had become to him. Sometimes you just miss something/somebody when it's gone.
Maybe it was selfish, but understandable. Marc had so much to loose.
After the baby was born, he really wanted to make the best of it with Bettina and baby. It hated the way he handled this with Kay, but maybe this was the only way he could handle it. Telling Kay and himself that it was only an affair.
He had to experience himself that it didn't work anymore with Bettina. And that Kay wasn't just an affair.
Too late, but this is what happens so often in life.

[gattaca]

No.  But damn appropriate!   I didn't even realize it was posted each time.. V

[morrobay]

Hi Mariska,
Yes, it is early in the relationship, before he comes to realize how much Kay means to him.  Marc goes back and forth so many times, pushing Kay away and then pulling him back, right up to the minute Bettina leaves.  Of course, by then, Kay is also gone.   

[mariska]

The club scene.
I read a lot of critic's too about that stereo type.
But because they have a secret relationship it may be the only public place then can be together without hiding anything.
I don't know about the age thing. They were so happy, relaxed and in love (like you said BF), that I don't care at all if it's a stereotype or they maybe too old. I think it's a wonderful scene.
So nice after all the drama. It shows how good it could be between those two without all the other problems.

[gattaca]

Yes, it was kind of cold. But don't forget that Kay is a free man and Marc has a relationship and is a father-to-be. A huge responsibility. I think at this point Marc doesn't want to think about choices, leaving his family is no option yet. He wants everything the way it is now en he feels threatened by kay's question.
Also I think at this time Marc didn't realise how important Kay had become to him. Sometimes you just miss something/somebody when it's gone.
Maybe it was selfish, but understandable. Marc had so much to loose.
After the baby was born, he really wanted to make the best of it with Bettina and baby. It hated the way he handled this with Kay, but maybe this was the only way he could handle it. Telling Kay and himself that it was only an affair.
He had to experience himself that it didn't work anymore with Bettina. And that Kay wasn't just an affair.
Too late, but this is what happens so often in life.

Well said.  Marc wants to have his cake and eat it too... but this life thread is not going to work that way.   He's TORN with his family responsibilities.  He cannot abandon his new born baby and his son's mother - "we didn't raise you like this.."  It's a commitment he's cemented once Bettina became pregnant and his son was born.  If the pregnancy and then baby were not part of the story, it would have been simpler for Marc and Bettina to go separate ways with no strings, no commitments for at least the next 18 years.   The desire to be parts of your child's life is overwhelming for most.  But then again, this conflict is central to the story.  V

[gattaca]

I know, I felt so bad for Kay.  And then he offers his apartment key to Marc.  Granted, Kay would also get something out of it if/when Marc came over since they would make love; still, the gesture says a lot about Kay and his feelings.  You don't do something like that, open up your life and your home, if you're just out for sex.  It also implies that Kay is prepared to be monogamous with Marc.

Yeapper.  Kay offered Marc a life with him.. that "cow and calf operation..." we are familiar with from BBM.  Perhaps Kay had been here before and was tired of the "just sex"..., and thought he'd found a real, longer term partner in Marc?  The club scene delivered just sex without strings...which maybe isn't what Kay needed.   Kay opened  to Marc and Marc simply dismissed him.  Still cold.  Yes, I agree, the club scene is stereotypical but accurate for some, not all.   V.