Author Topic: Free Fall - Freier Fall  (Read 530431 times)

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #970 on: December 07, 2014, 03:31:05 pm »
"Do you mind if I smoke?"
"I don't care if you shoot up."

Offline southendmd

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #971 on: December 07, 2014, 04:32:45 pm »

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #972 on: December 07, 2014, 04:44:09 pm »
 ;D
"Do you mind if I smoke?"
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Offline natty

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #973 on: December 26, 2014, 04:29:14 pm »
Vincent, this is just great!  We agree on most everything.

Exactly how I see it, too.  Marc is following Kay’s lead from the first moment.


Agree.  And Kay has gotten Marc to do 2 things that he didn’t really want to do at first, because he is used to following the rules: smoke pot and get in the pool after hours.  Kay is leading him again.

I think at this time he still feels “domesticated”, safe inside the boundaries of the life he’s always known.

Marc’s face shows absolute panic, as if everyone will somehow sense what happened between them.


One of my favorite scenes and played so well by both men.  Right, Kay is so at ease, just taking a cigarette from Marc’s pocket, grabbing his hand – not asking for a light this time, just taking it – and holding it as he lights his cigarette, that's a very intimate gesture.  Marc is aware of every move Kay is making, and the eye contact – smoldering!   You can tell Marc is surprised when Kay just walks away – something in him wanted more.  And Kay knew exactly what he was doing – what a cocktease; Max Riemelt quietly played this to the hilt.


Do you agree with some of reviews out there, that this was “abuse” or “almost rape”?  I find that a particularly offensive comparison.  But yes, he is freaked out by his own desires for Kay.  I found it interesting that, unlike Ennis, he is able to look Kay in the eye, even after something so intimate.  

Very telling – even the way he answers Frank’s question “I thought you knew him at the academy?”  Marc’s answer: “yeah, so?”  means, we were there together but I don’t know anything about him.

When Marc grabs Kay and slams him into the locker?  I think both: angry with Kay for showing up and himself for having feelings he doesn’t want to have.  And seriously, how fucking cool is Kay?  The look on his face doesn’t change, even when his head hits the locker!  Pure 100% confidence.  

Marc is panicked when he first sees him.  Did he want to keep his pregnant gf a secret from Kay?  Then in the bathroom it’s as if he’s in charge now – “so.  Now you know.”  What we did meant nothing.
The look on Kay’s face I can’t quite figure out.  Disappointment, I guess.

He’s stressing, but he can’t stop thinking about Kay and that forest thing, and he wants more but doesn’t want to want more.  He’s being torn in 2 directions.


The scene inside the car was totally off for me, until Mariska confirmed that Kay says “It was beautiful.” not "it was nice" like the subtitles read (thank you, Mariska!)  Marc is trying to come to terms with what he did: called Kay and asked to meet him for sex.  (Would love to know what he really said: want to jog in the pouring rain?)  Then he gets dressed quickly, not a word, and starts to leave.  Maybe I misread the look he gives Kay before he opens the door – it seemed somehow very smug to me.  And Kay seems to be very restrained, just smoking his pot, chillin.   Then when Kay says it was beautiful, Marc finally gives up some little smile of “acceptance” that it was.  Ennis, all over again.

As for the birthing class, since I was so invested in the relationship between the 2 men, it took me a few viewings to realize that he was there to learn how to “breathe evenly” with Bettina.

 Yeah, rookie mistake.  He certainly could have said it was somebody he was going jogging with, but to say it was Frank – she knew immediately that he was lying.

This is where the lack of a clear time frame throws me a little.  Is this after breakfast the same day?  The next week?  Have they been together since the car scene?  He seems very relaxed and accepting of what he fought so hard against, it would be nice to know how he got there so fast.  

Again with the time line, we don’t really know how long it took to get there.  He is very relaxed, seems totally giving (which I loved) – until they get out of bed.  Although the scene on the balcony is lovely and Kay seems to be totally in love (the way he looks at him! *sigh*), Marc is more reserved, more detached.  “Ever want to leave it all behind and start over?”  “Not really.”  It’s like he’s using Kay.

Yes, exactly, short-term on Marc’s part.  I wonder how many times he used that key.  So much of their meetings is left to our imagination.  Did he go over every day after work?  Where else did they meet?  

Now see, I thought he just couldn’t get it up because he couldn’t stop thinking about Kay and Bettina just turned him off completely.  But it could have been a lie to cover up.

What did you think of the club scene?  I didn’t like it at first, but now I love it!  They’re both kind of dorky out there, but they look so cute and in love.  Even Marc, rubbing Kay’s shoulder and his hand on his neck; and he’s having so much fun!  Something he’s not having at home anymore.  When Kay brings out the pills, I thought it was Viagra so they could make love all night, but consensus is it’s xtc, and I guess that’s right.  Kay is such a bad influence!
In the locker room, Kay does seem to be an outsider; but I didn't interpret Marc's look at Kay as checking to see if he's happy for him.  I thought Marc was wondering how it affected Kay, maybe one of the few times Marc actually thought of Kay's feelings.  IDK, I could be wrong.

Absolutely!  Noticed the hesitation as he opens his car door after the punch, as if he's fighting going back to Kay.  And the downhill sign.  There is so much feeling in that scene, Hanno Koffler was very good.  He’s so emotional, he’s fighting such a battle within himself – excellent acting.

Again, agree 100%, the alley scene.  He can’t breathe, he can’t concentrate even on a mundane task, he can’t get his mind off Kay.  He has made the rule, told Kay to stay away and he does.  But now Marc can’t take it.
On another note, every time I see that scene, the sound of him scrubbing the carpet makes me think of the Geico commercial with Maxwell the pig: Boots & pants!  Youtube it (or not, if you don’t want to laugh at the beginning of the scene!)

Very well put.  Did the director put Limpinski next to Marc on purpose?  On the same side?  And Britt.  I liked her character.

Yes, the WIKHTQY scene, with Ennis breaking down.  Very powerful and well played by both men.  “Lying in wait”, excellent way to put it.  Marc totally detaches himself from his feelings in the beginning of the scene, and tries to go on the offensive.  And this is the most passionate that we see Kay, pushing him and getting in his face – just great acting.  Did the ILY take Marc by surprise?  Did he just think it was sex?  It’s as if Kay’s feelings never entered his mind.  One of the times in the movie you want to hate Marc (but can’t) and you really feel for Kay.
As an aside, they’re still raiding gay bars in Germany?  Yikes.

Another time when I want to slap Marc.  He’s sitting there at the hospital and what’s his reaction when he sees Kay?  “Oh shit, not him again.”  The heavy sigh and the arms folded on his chest, blocking Kay out.  I hate that.  But the way he looks up at Kay when he grabs his hand, it's gorgeous!  Seriously.  I mean, seriously.  (Thank you, Hanno!) It shows his confusion; 1 minute he’s pushing him away, the next he wants him.  It happens over and over again.  But I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise.  He’s changing (or trying to change) something that has been ingrained in him since birth.  His whole life has been disrupted by this love.

I didn’t think she said she failed in raising him.  She said she “didn’t raise him to be like that.”  Which kind of doesn’t make sense to me.  What hetero couple would raise their kid to be gay?  Or straight, for that matter.  What I mean is, you can't raise a child to be one way or another.
Yes, he did finally get a bit of a backbone and came down pretty hard on her.  And how did he get home?  He took a taxi to the hospital, he should have taken one home, instead of calling his mom.  

Yes, back to the bland, boring, domesticated life.  (Did they have to put him in an apron?)  He does get very defensive: is this an interrogation?  

Yeah, not sure about the tradition of raising the pole with baby things on it.  Now here Marc seems “back in line” with the domestic thing, seems very happy with Bettina and the baby – until he sees Kay.  Why did she make a point of inviting him?  To prove she wasn’t a homophobe?  I love Britt in this scene, she’s so annoyed with Limpinski.
And yes, the parents’ reaction is as you said.  I posted an interview with the director some pages back, and he addressed this issue: people will say they’re accepting of gays until it directly affects them, like a close friend or family member, then it’s a different story.

Here we get a little idea of how often Marc & Kay were seeing each other when Bettina says “All those night shifts.  You weren’t even there.”  And you can see the panic in his face and hear it in his voice when he tries to talk her into staying.  He’s just locked Kay out of his life, and now Bettina is leaving, so he’ll have no one.  Yes, she knows now.
The scene in Kay’s apartment when he gives back the key is so painful to watch.  How can Marc detach himself from Kay like that?  How can he see him bruised and not try to comfort him?  (Well, he did try a little and Kay brushed him away, and Marc was okay with that.)  Then “What about us?”  He just puts the key down and leaves without a word.  Damn.  

This is the only time in the movie I actually cried: when Bettina screams "What are you then?"  Their voices had been so low and controlled, then she just loses it.  Totally took me by surprise - again, great acting on her part.
Ok, that he “retreats into domestication” – an explanation to me of why he is shown mowing a yard, which clearly doesn’t need mowing.
I noticed that, too, he never says he’s sorry.  Maybe because he’s not.  

I didn’t see it as a bookend for the painting scene, but I guess it could be seen that way – both coming at the other from behind.  And why did she wait until he was naked and in the shower?  So he would be vulnerable?  I think it pure hurt and disbelief – how can this be happening? - on her part.  His being gay is as unthinkable to her as it was to him, look how long it took him to accept the idea that he wanted Kay.  Very well played scene.

The alternate ending so wouldn’t fit with Kay’s personality.  I never once saw in him hopelessness or despair, or dependent on Marc to the point of suicide.  That would have ruined the whole movie, totally out of character.

To me, this is the “short dirty fight” that Ennis picks with the guy in the pick-up, after Thanksgiving dinner at Alma’s, when she tells him she knows the truth.
As for Limpinski: Is he a latent homosexual?  
The scene in the bar is strange.  Is he trying to recreate his time with Kay?  Why take x?  He was not a drug guy by any means, and it doesn’t work that fast, he was on that guy in a second.  
One thing I did not like was when he raised his fist to hit the guy; another place where the director took it right to the edge and brought it back.

Yeah, very sad to watch.  He knows he’s lost everything, he knows it’s his fault, he’s facing up to his responsibility in hurting Bettina and Kay.  Shit, is right.


Yes, when he walks into the room they shared together everything must coming rushing back, all the memories.
The bookends of beginning and end were great.  I thought the unit trained on the track and in the gym, etc, that’s why he was back on the track, just a normal training run to keep in shape.  But now he can “breathe evenly”.  

Great movie, tied with Brokeback for my #1.  Thanks, Vincent, so good to finally talk about this with you and Mariska.  I'm totally surprised more people here haven't gone out of their way to see this.



Great discussion! I love Freier Fall! I can't movie get from my head... I have similar thoughts and opinions. Thanks for your comments!

My English is not very good enough to join this group:(




Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #974 on: December 26, 2014, 05:37:23 pm »
Hi Natty, good to see you here.  Don't worry about your English, talk about the film all you want, we'll figure it out  :)

I like the gif you posted.  Are you a Max fan?
"Do you mind if I smoke?"
"I don't care if you shoot up."

Offline natty

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #975 on: December 26, 2014, 06:07:36 pm »
I love Max! He is sooo sexy  :-*

Offline natty

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #976 on: December 26, 2014, 06:45:31 pm »

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #977 on: December 26, 2014, 06:58:09 pm »
I love Max! He is sooo sexy  :-*

Yes, he is!   ;D
"Do you mind if I smoke?"
"I don't care if you shoot up."

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #978 on: December 26, 2014, 07:00:36 pm »
"Do you mind if I smoke?"
"I don't care if you shoot up."

Offline natty

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #979 on: December 26, 2014, 08:31:06 pm »