People hate this movie...

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

I was just checking my Netflix account and out of Brokeback obsession, I decided I'd read the reviews by customers on Brokeback Mountain. I must have gone through eleven pages and saw, at most, three reviews that gave it four or five stars. Several gave it three, but that's extremely average.

So many people were criticizing the movie, and it was so annoying! All the reviews said the same thing: "So boring. Felt no love between the characters, couldn't root for them either. No build up to the first love scene. The movie was mean to the wives. Heath mumbled. This movie is SOOOO OVERRATED. Critics got it wrong. Oh, but I liked the scenery..." Shut up, my God.

I was sitting there, dumbfounded. I was like, how? I was like, you see the chemistry between the characters, the sympathy everyone has for Lureen and Alma, the brilliance of the music, nuances, symbols, acting, etc. It made me mad. Soon I'm gonna write a (hopefully elaborate) five-star review praising the movie.

Anyway, has anyone else ran into repeated claims by others that this movie "sucks?" Cause of all the people I know who have seen it, 90% of them think it's overrated and alienating.

In the end, it's not a big deal, but I sometimes fear it will have a Titanic-like backlash. At first everyone loved that movie, now people joke about it. I don't want that for Brokeback, cause it's such a powerfully and artfully made masterpiece.

[Penthesilea]

So many people were criticizing the movie, and it was so annoying! All the reviews said the same thing: "So boring. Felt no love between the characters, couldn't root for them either. No build up to the first love scene. The movie was mean to the wives. Heath mumbled. This movie is SOOOO OVERRATED. Critics got it wrong. Oh, but I liked the scenery..." Shut up, my God.

Anyway, has anyone else ran into repeated claims by others that this movie "sucks?" Cause of all the people I know who have seen it, 90% of them think it's overrated and alienating.

Sounds familiar. Reminds me of my first days/weeks after seeing BBM for the first time, when I was on IMDB.
God, this makes me almost feel nostalic. But only almost. It really is annoying.

In RL I didn't experience such reactions. But I know only four people who have seen it. One is a Brokie like us, the others liked it and thought it was a really good movie (but weren't infected by Brokeback Fever  ).

[SFEnnisSF]

There will not be a Titanic-like backlash.  It's impossible... 

I have learned so much about this movie and people's different reactions to it over the last 10 months. 

#1 This is an OPEN NARRITAVE movie, meaning you are not spoon fed the movie.  You are given bits and pieces of the story and it's up to you, the viewer, to add your own experiences and complete it.  So, what you bring to the movie is what you take away from it.  Example:  If all you have to bring is you are is a woman who's been cheated on before, then that's all you're going to see in this movie.  Those are the emotions you are going to identify with the most. 

#2 Not everyone is at the same place in their lives as everyone else, regardless of age.  Someone may view this now and find it slow and boring (because they had nothing to add to it), and then they might watch it again 10 years from now and it will have so much more meaning and emotion.  It just depends on where you are at in your life and again, what do you have to bring to the movie itself.

#3 Unfortuately yes, the movie was hyped.  So much in fact that people had so much emotions (fright, anticipation, etc) about watching the movie, that now when they've finally rented it, it probably doesn't live up to THEIR expectations they had.  Don't forget, these are people who would have not normally seen this movie, who didn't go to the theatre, and are only renting it from Netflix because it was 'hyped'.  It really isn't a movie for them...

#4 The movie also has the ability to stir up some just genuinely human emotions.  It causes us to look in the mirror, and many renters are not expecting that.  And they're angry, because they don't like what they see in the mirror.  So the natural thing to do is lash out and attack the movie.  Don't worry, they'll come around eventually, and regret what they said.  Maybe, hopefully...

Ignore all the negative posts and such, just like we did 10 months ago.  They mean nothing in terms to the countless lives this movie has touched and the many people this movie has helped and enlightened.   

[Katie77]

The reason why i think some people think it is boring, is the anticipation of people waiting to see the boys "get together"....

I think most people know before they see the movie, that they are going to get together, so its a bit of a waiting game for when it happens, and if thats all they are waiting for, then it seems to take quite a while from when the movie starts until they finally get into the first tent scene.

Anyone I have come accross they say they "hate" the movie, are usually homophobes who havent even seen it.

[Luvlylittlewing]

I was just checking my Netflix account and out of Brokeback obsession, I decided I'd read the reviews by customers on Brokeback Mountain. I must have gone through eleven pages and saw, at most, three reviews that gave it four or five stars. Several gave it three, but that's extremely average.

So many people were criticizing the movie, and it was so annoying! All the reviews said the same thing: "So boring. Felt no love between the characters, couldn't root for them either. No build up to the first love scene. The movie was mean to the wives. Heath mumbled. This movie is SOOOO OVERRATED. Critics got it wrong. Oh, but I liked the scenery..." Shut up, my God.

I was sitting there, dumbfounded. I was like, how? I was like, you see the chemistry between the characters, the sympathy everyone has for Lureen and Alma, the brilliance of the music, nuances, symbols, acting, etc. It made me mad. Soon I'm gonna write a (hopefully elaborate) five-star review praising the movie.

Anyway, has anyone else ran into repeated claims by others that this movie "sucks?" Cause of all the people I know who have seen it, 90% of them think it's overrated and alienating.

In the end, it's not a big deal, but I sometimes fear it will have a Titanic-like backlash. At first everyone loved that movie, now people joke about it. I don't want that for Brokeback, cause it's such a powerfully and artfully made masterpiece.

I have heard this about Netflix and can't explain it.  I also refuse to pay attention to the "haters."  You ask if we ran into repeated claims that this movie sucks?  I haven't - just the opposite.  90% of the people I know who have seen BBM (gay and straight, male and female) loved the movie.  In fact, my daughter's violin teacher and her husband recently ordered BBM from Netflix and watched it last week.  Both of them were blown away.  I even passed along to my favorite reviews, fanfiction, essays written by IMDB posters (I keep all this in my car).  I may be wrong, but I suspect those who felt BBM is overrated wrote reviews while the people who loved it didn't bother. 

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

sfericsf's #1 and #2 make the most sense to me. It seems most likely a scorned woman would feel the movie did not sympathize with the wives (most all of us disagree).

You're point about the story being an open narrative is so true. I really admire how the movie is like an epic series of memories, without doing a Fried Green Tomatoes-style flashback narrative, and by the end of the movie, these memories feel like they are your own. As with all memories, some details become hazy, and it's up to you to fill in the pieces.

[horo35]

The reason why i think some people think it is boring, is the anticipation of people waiting to see the boys "get together"....

I think most people know before they see the movie, that they are going to get together, so its a bit of a waiting game for when it happens, and if thats all they are waiting for, then it seems to take quite a while from when the movie starts until they finally get into the first tent scene.

Anyone I have come accross they say they "hate" the movie, are usually homophobes who havent even seen it.

I wonder what kind of reviews it would have received if Brokeback was a love story between a man and a woman?

[Brown Eyes]

There are some great old threads floating around here on BetterMost (probably some here on Open Forum and I'm sure some over in CT) all about what to do in response to "non-believers" and stories like the ones here about dealing with "strange" people who don't seem to get BBM.  It's best to find a way to (1) argue effectively and (2) laugh it off (or at least not let it get you down).

As BetterMostians and Brokeback lovers, I fear we'll probably have to deal with non-believers over and over again.

[starboardlight]

well, those reviews have been up on Netflix from way back. i remember the same kind of thread like this appearing at IMDB. It appears that so many people posted negative comments to discourage others from renting the film. Didn't work though.

btw, if anyone's got a netflix account, you should add your own review to help off set the negativity.

[Kazza]

There are some great old threads floating around here on BetterMost (probably some here on Open Forum and I'm sure some over in CT) all about what to do in response to "non-believers" and stories like the ones here about dealing with "strange" people who don't seem to get BBM.  It's best to find a way to (1) argue effectively and (2) laugh it off (or at least not let it get you down).

As BetterMostians and Brokeback lovers, I fear we'll probably have to deal with non-believers over and over again.

I love that phrase "non-believers", 'cos that's how it feels doesn't it. I've waxed lyrical to some friends about the film, but haven't wanted to overdo it because, to be honest, I don't think that everyone has this almost spiritual reaction to it. I mean, it's "just a film". There are film/books/albums that I love, but none has had anything like the effect that this has had on me, but there are people who simply don't feel that connection and it's very hard to explain.

I think I'm rambling now, so I'll stop...

Karen

[Katie77]

I love that phrase "non-believers", 'cos that's how it feels doesn't it. I've waxed lyrical to some friends about the film, but haven't wanted to overdo it because, to be honest, I don't think that everyone has this almost spiritual reaction to it. I mean, it's "just a film". There are film/books/albums that I love, but none has had anything like the effect that this has had on me, but there are people who simply don't feel that connection and it's very hard to explain.

I think I'm rambling now, so I'll stop...

Karen

You know, this is a lot like what those regligious people, that come knocking on your door, trying to convert us to the religion that they have found so life changing to themselves.

I have a better understanding of those people now.

[HerrKaiser]

I have never considered myself as having a particular, special sense or ability to "see" things that are not obvious to most others. but, I know few people who actually even liked the film, much less are supportive of the depth to which I embrace the story and film.

Interestingly, though, the very first time I screened the film, my reaction was luke warm. In the hours afterward, I thought much about the main theme and a few interesting scenes, and upon such deep thought, decided to screen the film again. The second viewing was like an explosion of meaning that had not emerged as clearly as the first time. My third and subsequent viewings only added to the intense appreciation for all the was BBM.

Most people sample quickly and move on; a film like this needs study, commitment, involvement, and a desire to understand all the nuances and meanings. It is a thinking-persons film; not to denigrate anyone by this point, but most film goers want mindless or semi-mindless entertainment. BBM would not even fall in my category of "entertainment", rather a inner study of human desires and frailties that is often not found outside academic, religious, or spiritualist arenas.

[Rayn]

a film like this needs study, commitment, involvement, and a desire to understand all the nuances and meanings.

Exactly!   And also, as was your experience, HerrKaiser, and mine as well, each time the film is viewed, one often discovers more depth and meaning.  The same thing happens with any great art, with poetry, painting, music, dance etc.  Great art lasts because of how it seems to "give and give us more to understand, appreciate and enjoy" every time we encounter it.

As far as complains about BBM, I don't know about others, but the people who complained about it most to me were all Non Gay/Non Lesbian people.   I have no doubt "family" love this movie like "non family" cannot, which is not to say there aren't heterosexuals who liked it; thought it was brilliant, of course there are, but I haven't met a Gay man or Lesbian yet who doesn't love it.   

Rayn

[ednbarby]

You know, I've actually canceled my Netflix account partly because of the way they are posting the reviews there.  Those negative reviews were written back in April when it came out on DVD.  Every last one of them.  I know because I wrote a glowing review that I have yet to be able to even find posted there.  I emailed them about it twice and never got a response.  Then I emailed them a third time, threatening to cancel my account.  Nothing.  I almost think the same person or couple of people wrote all those negative reviews, and I'm pretty much convinced that whoever is the administrator(s) there is homophobic and doesn't want to post positive reviews.  At best, they are just like the ones at the IMDb boards - they're not capable and/or don't have time/don't care to fix it.

My other reason for quitting was I just was not getting through the films fast enough to warrant being charged monthly.  As much as I think Blockbuster is the Evil Empire, I'd rather pop in there when the mood strikes me to rent and watch a movie.  So you have to return them within a certain period of time.  Big whoop.  My gym is right next door, so I'm there several days a week anyway.  If I do join up with a mail-in service again, it will be Blockbuster or someone else.  To hell with Netflix.

[ednbarby]

Anyway, has anyone else ran into repeated claims by others that this movie "sucks?" Cause of all the people I know who have seen it, 90% of them think it's overrated and alienating.

I work at a fairly liberal company where everyone is (not to sound like a snob, but) well-educated and has a clue.  And I'd say the majority of people I know who've seen it here - I'd guess about 7 out of 10 - loved it.  One woman friend loved it whom I did not expect to - her husband is extremely conservative, they're both into NASCAR, etc.  But she went to college and grew up in an all-liberal family in a blue state (Illinois), so those sensibilities seem to have won out.  And she said, "The men are both so handsome and they have such great chemistry together.  What's not to like?  Oh, the scenery and music were nice, too."  Another one who I thought was fairly liberal hated it because "it was too slow and I couldn't understand what Ennis was saying half the time."     One gay friend disliked it for the same reason, three others loved it.

As I said in my previous post, I think those posts at Netflix are bogus.  I think they're all written by the same person or couple of people.  They've been there forever, and they never change, no matter how many positive reviews people write.  I wrote one that I've yet to see posted there, and other people at the old PT board did back in April, too.

 

[HerrKaiser]

Exactly!   And also, as was your experience, HerrKaiser, and mine as well, each time the film is viewed, one often discovers more depth and meaning.  The same thing happens with any great art, with poetry, painting, music, dance etc.  Great art lasts because of how it seems to "give and give us more to understand, appreciate and enjoy" every time we encounter it.

As far as complains about BBM, I don't know about others, but the people who complained about it most to me were all Non Gay/Non Lesbian people.   I have no doubt "family" love this movie like "non family" cannot, which is not to say there aren't heterosexuals who liked it; thought it was brilliant, of course there are, but I haven't met a Gay man or Lesbian yet who doesn't love it.   

Rayn

I agree completely with your analogy to art in that mulitple viewings over decades builds a greater and greater appreciation for a piece as well as creates vast new interpretations to its meaning.

Regarding the types if people who do not like the film, interestingly even here in San Francisco, I have encountered many gay men who fall into that group. What seems to be a common denominator among the "dislikes" group is that they are mostly people in long term, happy relaitionships. What's more, they have much fewer experiences in the trials of lost love situations or the pains of love's tragedies.

Like so many other of life's situations, unless you have "walked in another man's shoes" it is not so easy, and sometimes impossible, to feel and understand and appreciate the depths and heights of their experiences.

[wolf]

This is an interesting thread.

I understand and agree that family loves family best, but it gives me pause to wonder anew at my own reasons for loving BBM as powerfully as I do.

I'm straight, female, happily married for 14 years, etc.  All the usual suspects.  In fact each and every one of my friends/relatives who love the movie passionately fall into the same category, more or less.  The only person I know who's not had the reaction I expected them to have (she liked it but didn't love it), is the only one who could be said to have had the "right" sort of experiences to facilitate a strong resonance. 

More and more I'm inclined to think that what ties us to this work of great art is something beyond sexuality and personal experience.  It's something beyond intellect, sensitivity, humour, compassion, and all the other qualities many of you beautiful posters have. 

I have a running joke with a fellow Brokie from Dave Cullen's site to the effect the film is suffused with subliminal messages from the mother ship - calling us home (this is what happens when you cross a Trekkie with a Brokie).  I'm starting to wonder.

Let's assume the netflix party poopers are mere mortals  .

W

[HerrKaiser]

This is an interesting thread. 

More and more I'm inclined to think that what ties us to this work of great art is something beyond sexuality and personal experience.  It's something beyond intellect, sensitivity, humour, compassion, and all the other qualities many of you beautiful posters have. 

yes, true enough. there are simply some events, "things", people in life, etc, that grab some people in a very deep, affecting way, while others have no such feeling having been exposed to the same things. At one BBM outing/event here in San Francisco in June, someone said her husband just "..didn't get it". Much like, in former times, when people would talk about that EST phenomenon; they'd talk about "getting it"; some did, most did not.

I still believe there is a strong, deeply personal link to one aspect of the story or another that people identify that catapults them to the level of commitment we all seem to enjoy. Something about Ennis or something about Jack or their actions, lives, etc, reasonates and touches a nerve with most of the film-lovers on a personal level; doesn't matter male or female. 'that is me, or that was me, or that could have been me, or I wish that was me...' are how those immediately struck seem to create that first link which leads to the level we on this forum have grown to. At least that's how I think my addition happened! Thanks!

[wolf]

I still believe there is a strong, deeply personal link to one aspect of the story or another that people identify that catapults them to the level of commitment we all seem to enjoy. Something about Ennis or something about Jack or their actions, lives, etc, reasonates and touches a nerve with most of the film-lovers on a personal level; doesn't matter male or female. 'that is me, or that was me, or that could have been me, or I wish that was me...' are how those immediately struck seem to create that first link which leads to the level we on this forum have grown to.

you make a good point there, HerrKaiser.  several themes could have been "triggers" for me - my interest in horses, cowboys and mountains for eg.  but while these might provide reason for initial attraction, they don't explain obsession.  many other films combine grand scenery and cowboys, none has thrown me for a life changing loop.  it's the obsession I'm most curious about, since personal experience tells me there's no rhyme or reason discernible to the naked eye, as it were.

I'm almost as  curious about those who don't "get it".  or rather, why they don't get it.  Whenever I come across a lukewarm reaction, I feel like running the individual in question through a series of neurological exams.  Superior?  Moi?  .

W

[ednbarby]

I'm almost as  curious about those who don't "get it".  or rather, why they don't get it.  Whenever I come across a lukewarm reaction, I feel like running the individual in question through a series of neurological exams.  Superior?  Moi?  .

I think it was Henrypie here who once said she's sure that all those other people really believe that they're the ones who are right, too, but that the difference is she really is.

[Mikaela]

Unfortunately it's not just the average Joes going to the movies who sometimes are dead wrong about BBM and who seem to hate the film. Somtimes the critics are just as far out in that particular mire.

Yes, it's the time of year of the movie critics' summaries of the best and worst of 2006. And since BBM was released in 2006 over here, it happens to feature on the regional paper's summary of "the indifferent movie year 2006". The paper's movie critic of long standing (unbelievable, but true!) gave BBM 3 out of 6 stars when it was originally released and started his review back then with a statement to the fact that in his opinion, "wasted lives were a poor reason to bore everyone to death."     (After that the review just went downhill.) 

Anyway, he finds the need in his heart to mention BBM in his annual movie summary, and here's what he's got to say (as translated by yours truly):

"It's nearly a year since you saw BBM in the cinema and was seduced by the old-liberal recognition of gays as completely ordinary human beings. That was the most embarrassing thing you did in the cinema in 2006. Gays aren't hamsters. They're not here to be petted."

I'm so annoyed that this guy and his review(s) have been many a person's main source of opinion on BBM in this district. In addition to his opinion of the film as extremely boring, he keeps harping on the fact that the film was kicking in open doors and presenting gay issues as relevant when they by now in his opinion belong firmly in the past.   

[nakymaton]

I'm so annoyed that this guy and his review(s) have been many a person's main source of opinion on BBM in this district. In addition to his opinion of the film as extremely boring, he keeps harping on the fact that the film was kicking in open doors and presenting gay issues as relevant when they by now in his opinion belong firmly in the past.   

Well, you DO live in a more enlightened country than the US.  He didn't go through the last few elections in rural America.

When I read all the reviews last year, it struck me that a lot of people in more enlightened places didn't seem to get the movie because it was firmly rooted in a place and culture that was mostly known through caricatures. I don't know if that's true or not now -- a lot of urban folks and people who would otherwise see "cowboy" as an insult ("cowboy diplomacy") love the movie to death. But a lot of the articles in the media really raised my redneck hackles.

[Ellemeno]

I hate this thread's title...

Good conversation though.