Author Topic: What the actual fuck is going on in the USA pre election circus???  (Read 13992 times)

Offline Pipedream

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Seriously, my precious friends in the United States. Who would consider a certain D. Trump fit for president? It all seems like a bad joke. The man himself is a living caricature. This might, of course, have been discussed on here already to the utmost (I was away, sorry).  :-\   

Offline Front-Ranger

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Circus is right! (Anke, nice to see you here!) I will take a stab at an answer for you and all my global Brokie friends. I'm not very political but am reluctantly realizing that I have to get more active in this area. I happen to know quite a few Republicans and can assure you that many of them, if not most, don't think he's a fit candidate. He has risen to power by leveraging several factors but his foundation is shaky and I would be surprised if he actually became the Republican candidate. "There is many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip."

There hasn't really been a strong Republican candidate for president since I was a baby. Eisenhower, who won in 1952, was a strong leader but was flawed because he was an old and tired General and also because Nixon was his vp. Then, Nixon ran in 1960 but lost to Kennedy/Lyndon Johnson, who beat Barry Goldwater in 1964 after the Kennedy assassination. Nixon finally won in 1968 but was impeached during his second term. Gerald Ford took over but when he stood for election, he lost.

Then came the 8 Reagan years. People look back with nostalgia but I remember thinking of him as a joke at the time. He had some competent people working for him and that helped. George Bush the elder, who followed, was pretty ineffectual despite having many years of experience in govt. People voted him out of office after his first term. All the Republicans could find to run against Bill Clinton in his bid for a 2nd term was Bob Dole. Who? Bob Dole. I'm not sure how George Bush the younger got elected. . .the 2000 election had a lot of corruption and the Supreme Court ended up deciding the vote. And then he won the vote again in 2004, riding on the fear people had after 9/11. That turned into a disaster domestically as the US fell into a Great Recession. It also probably affected John McCain's bid for election but what affected it the most was his disastrous choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate. Also his advanced age.

This year, the candidate deck was also weak for the Republicans, plus there were too many of them. There is a hardcore group of Republicans and Independents out there who have been angry and disenfranchised since the Bill Clinton days or before. Some of the former Tea Party group fall into this category too. Trump has tapped into that anger and, like Captain Ahab, he is riding the old white Republican Party into the abyss.
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Offline milomorris

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I am on the Bucks County Republican Committee. I'll summarize my observations on why Trump is the party nominee.

1. Many Americans feel that both the traditional Democratic and Republican parties have failed them. On the left, the feeling of a failed party spawned the Occupy Movement. On the right, the same feeling spawned the Tea Party Movement. Additionally, there are millions of voters on both sides who might not belong to either movement, but are sympathetic to the specific complaints and focal points of each/either of these movements. These folks are also fed up with the way both parties have been running the country. The fed-up folks on the left, and the Occupiers followed Bernie Sanders. The fed-up folks on the right and the Tea Partiers followed Trump. Basically, the "establishment" candidates were not popular this election cycle because people want real change.

2. Both Trump and Sanders use an unscripted mode of delivering speeches and conducting interviews. Because Americans are accustomed to hearing scripted, polished modes of speech from candidates and sitting politicians who have lost their trust over the last couple of decades, scripted and polished have become synonymous with un- trustworthiness and lies. Unscripted is not only getting voters' attention because its a new and different way to communicate on the political stage, but because it is the opposite of scripted, it has become synonymous with truth and honesty. So voters are drawn to Trump and Sanders because of their unscripted delivery.

3. Sadly for Sanders--and I will admit that I could possibly have voted for him in a general election--the Hillary machine was already well-funded and well-established politically. Throw in the fact that too many of the delegates had already pledged support for Hillary before the race even really started, and Sanders didn't stand a chance. Although I think if he had done a better job getting out the vote, he would be in a position to challenge Hillary at the Democratic convention. I'm afraid there will be enough angry Sanders voters who will show and attempt to disrupt the Democratic convention, and the powers that be in the DNC and Philadelphia itself are preparing for that possible threat.

4. Trump is, and always has been a strong-willed, take-no-bullshit guy. His full-frontal approach to just about everything he does stands in stark contrast to the uncommitted tone of politicians in both parties, especially the gentleness of Obama's approach. Yes, it is true that gentleness is often mistaken for weakness, but in the case of Obama, his detractors will point to policy failures that support their perception of him as weak. Former fed-up Democrat voters have expressed this perception and changed parties in order to vote for Trump.

5. Trump’s platform contains more meat and less fluff than the other Republican candidates in the field. Trump’s platform also focuses attention on the core issues in America. No, I did not review ALL of the GOP candidates’ websites, just those that made it to the final 4. Trump’s platform contains actual actionable plans. Cruz, Rubio, Kasich, and Carson posted much weaker, fluffier content to their websites. Cruz and Rubio spent to much time telling us what they did and didn’t vote for in Senate. Kasich spent too much time telling us what he did in Ohio, and expecting us to think those solutions would scale up on a national level. Carson was too much about what he believed, and what he would support.

6. People are sick and tired of political correctness and social justice warriors guiding various national conversations, and creating an atmosphere where free speech is stymied. They are also fed up with having ideas from the right classified ignorant, bigoted, unfair, etc. Trump stands up to the name-calling, and his supporters see him as someone who will make it safe to have open honest conversation about a whole range of issues that we currently tip-toe around.

7. Hillary’s history of being involved in scandals has pushed some voters in Trump’s direction. Many people—women especially--look at the fact that Hillary stayed married to Bill through the sex scandals and they think she did it in order to improve her own political career. They think she whored herself out in exchange for political power. Additionally, there is still lingering doubt about Benghazi, and whether Hillary’s State Department did anything to contribute to outcome either through action or inaction. But more than anything, Hillary stands out head and shoulders above everyone else as the career politician in the room. She represents the establishment that so many voters want to get away from.

8. Trump has a long record as a successful business man. People admire him for this, and they think that his business success will translate into a successful presidency. Even the bankruptcies make him look even stronger because he was able to pick himself up, dust himself off, and do even better after each bankruptcy—and that takes a strong character and good business acumen.

There has been lots of switching parties leading up to primaries and caucuses in each state. Some states gained more Republican voters, some states gained more Democrat voters. As of the voter registration deadline here in Pennsylvania, at least 128,000 voters statewide had changed their registration since Jan. 1 to join the Republican party. In that same timeframe 86,500 voters switched to the Democratic party.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Offline Pipedream

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Oh well. Thanks for answering, anyway. We will watch what's going on overthere with a critical eye...


Offline milomorris

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We will watch what's going on overthere with a critical eye...

Watch and criticize all you want. We serve our own interests...period.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 10:01:01 am »
I don't know who milo is referring to when he says "we" but it's not me. I have traveled extensively throughout the world and have seen that the deeds and misdeeds of those in the U.S. can cause great hardship and suffering to people even half a world away. Plus, there is more anxiety among people looking at the U.S. political scene than there is here in the U.S. Electing the wrong leader may cause discomfort in this country but in other countries, particularly poor or struggling countries it can be a total disaster. When I traveled to Nepal in 2012, there were large gangs of young people who roamed around with no prospects and no chance of finding a job to support themselves and their families. Due to the 2008 U.S. financial collapse, a whole generation of people in many countries lost their future. It also contributed to the waves of refugees.

Even when I have visited Canada, I was anxiously asked by taxi drivers and college professors and shopkeepers whether there was any chance of Republicans getting back into power. The world over, Republicans are associated with the era of 9/11, warmaking, and recession. There is great fear in the prospect of Trump, and I expect this to lead to volatility until the election is over or he implodes, whichever comes first.
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Offline brian

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Unfortunately we get the US elections ad nauseam on our news. I have even seen Trump's latest stupidity lead our TV news bulletin in the evening. We hear something about politics in Australia (but not the other way) and the UK but not to the same extent. Any German or French election, the coverage would be hard to find and probably the result mentioned somewhere towards the end of the bulletin.
 The Australian national elections are on July 2nd but still little mention on NZ TV and probably just on page 3 or 4 of the newspaper. I guess the results will lead when they come through. Although I am an Australian, as I have left the country for over 6 years, I no longer have the right to vote, not that I care all that much but I still read Australian news online.
As FR says, who is President of the USA affects the world. The younger Bush was such a disaster and Obama is so much admired that people around the world are nervous.

Offline milomorris

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If you think that any candidate for POTUS has ever spent any cycles campaigning on how his/her presidency would effect Nepal, Canada, or Australia, you would be mistaken. The foreign policy platform plank always focuses on doing what is good for the USA.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 06:03:03 pm by milomorris »
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline CellarDweller

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If you think that any candidate for POTUS has ever spent any cycles campaigning on how his/her presidency would effect Nepal, Canada, or Australia, you would be mistaken. The foreign policy platform plank always focuses on doing what is good for the USA.

That may be  true, but the  general public also knows that the POTUS needs to be someone who can be respected on a worldwide scale.  Ever since Trump became the presumptive Republican candidate, I've lost count of the  conversations I've had with people (both liberal and conservative) who think that Trump has no idea how to handle himself with leaders of other countries.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline milomorris

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That may be  true, but the  general public also knows that the POTUS needs to be someone who can be respected on a worldwide scale.  Ever since Trump became the presumptive Republican candidate, I've lost count of the  conversations I've had with people (both liberal and conservative) who think that Trump has no idea how to handle himself with leaders of other countries.

I think that it is a mistake to project any emotional assumptions onto the leaders of other countries. "Respect" is not a requirement for creating agreements with other countries. The ability to deliver on the terms of any proposed agreements, and the power to enforce those terms are what matter most. Just look at what happened after WWII. Neither Roosevelt nor Churchill particularly liked or respected Stalin, and Stalin very likely did not respect either of them. Yet they were able to hammer out some of the most important agreements of the modern era.

People might not be very likely to think of Trump as a "buddy," but he has shown time and again that he is a successful negotiator. That is what gets agreements signed, not "congeniality." That is for beauty pageants.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2016, 12:36:09 pm »
I don't know who milo is referring to when he says "we" but it's not me. I have traveled extensively throughout the world and have seen that the deeds and misdeeds of those in the U.S. can cause great hardship and suffering to people even half a world away. Plus, there is more anxiety among people looking at the U.S. political scene than there is here in the U.S. Electing the wrong leader may cause discomfort in this country but in other countries, particularly poor or struggling countries it can be a total disaster. When I traveled to Nepal in 2012, there were large gangs of young people who roamed around with no prospects and no chance of finding a job to support themselves and their families. Due to the 2008 U.S. financial collapse, a whole generation of people in many countries lost their future. It also contributed to the waves of refugees.

Even when I have visited Canada, I was anxiously asked by taxi drivers and college professors and shopkeepers whether there was any chance of Republicans getting back into power. The world over, Republicans are associated with the era of 9/11, warmaking, and recession. There is great fear in the prospect of Trump, and I expect this to lead to volatility until the election is over or he implodes, whichever comes first.

I wrote this as an expanded answer to Anke's original question of who would consider Trump a fit candidate. When I am voting for president, I vote not only for myself but for all the people in the world who will be affected by said president's decisions. Trump may be a good negotiator, but not if no one will even show up at the bargaining table or if they do with their minds already made up. I suspect there are many like Chancellor Merkel who would not be inviting him to tea anytime soon! Diplomacy is not in his vocabulary. I may be accused of being too soft in dealings with other countries but I am not looking forward to the prospect of the US being the bully on the playground.
Too much to do. . .I don't have time to get old!

Offline milomorris

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Re: What is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 11:36:56 pm »
I wrote this as an expanded answer to Anke's original question of who would consider Trump a fit candidate. When I am voting for president, I vote not only for myself but for all the people in the world who will be affected by said president's decisions. Trump may be a good negotiator, but not if no one will even show up at the bargaining table or if they do with their minds already made up. I suspect there are many like Chancellor Merkel who would not be inviting him to tea anytime soon! Diplomacy is not in his vocabulary. I may be accused of being too soft in dealings with other countries but I am not looking forward to the prospect of the US being the bully on the playground.

This is the USA we're talking about. Merkel has a job to do. Dealing with the USA is part of her job. Just like the rest of us, she doesn't have to like the people with whom she works. None of us get to pick and choose.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What the actual fuck is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2016, 11:14:56 pm »
Your comment reminds me of all the times I thought, during the past seven years, that the U.S. Congress had to do their job no matter whether they liked the president or not. They were elected to do a job, so do it!! But it didn't work out that way.
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Offline CellarDweller

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Re: What the actual fuck is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2016, 11:51:28 am »
Your comment reminds me of all the times I thought, during the past seven years, that the U.S. Congress had to do their job no matter whether they liked the president or not. They were elected to do a job, so do it!! But it didn't work out that way.

no, it sure didn't


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline southendmd

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Re: What the actual fuck is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2016, 12:04:52 pm »
The party of "hell, no" might just get a rude awakening, come November.

Offline milomorris

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Re: What the actual fuck is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2016, 09:46:08 pm »
Your comment reminds me of all the times I thought, during the past seven years, that the U.S. Congress had to do their job no matter whether they liked the president or not. They were elected to do a job, so do it!! But it didn't work out that way.

It had nothing to with liking the man. It had everything to do with the flaws in his policies.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline milomorris

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Re: What the actual fuck is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 09:49:09 pm »
The party of "hell, no" might just get a rude awakening, come November.

They have already had their awakening. Their voters have handed them the nominee that the voters wanted, not the man that the party wanted. If only the Democrats had done the same.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: What the actual fuck is going on in the USA pre election circus???
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 12:49:29 am »
Why is this topic in the BBM open forum?