Happy Longerdays!

[serious crayons]

It's the funniest thing. We've had this discussion before, and I still don't get it. 

I know our seasons come about because of the tilt of the earth's axis roughly 25.5 degrees, and I know "the sun doesn't set above the Artic Circle" in high summer. Yet as I visualize the sun "moving south" from the summer solstice to the autumn equinox, I still don't get why it doesn't get dark earlier "up north." It still seems counterfactual to me, even though I observed the phenomenon first had when I made my big cross-country train trip. It was later in the summer, and when the train stopped in northern Montana, it was light later in the evening than it would be back home. 

Maybe what I should do is the old science class trick of sticking a pencil through a styrofoam ball and moving it around a light bulb.    Then I have to make sure I have the pencil tilted enough and in the right direction. 

I think at least part of the explanation is that at the solstice, the days are longer farther north. So on June 21, the sun sets at 8:33 in Philadelphia, 9:03 in Minneapolis and 11:43 in in Anchorage. Daylight in northern cities must shrink more quickly after June 21, though. By Sept. 22 everybody's got 12 hours. Then northern daylight keeps shrinking faster until Dec. 21 -- although, weirdly, at that point sunsets in Philadelphia are only 5 minutes later than Minneapolis (3:34 and 4:39 respectively, but sunRISES are earlier in Philadelphia. Anchorage sunset on Dec. 21 is 3:41 p.m.

These times are affected not just by longitude but also by latitude -- that is, where the city is located within the time zone.

 

[Jeff Wrangler]

These times are affected not just by longitude but also by latitude -- that is, where the city is located within the time zone.

I'm afraid you have that backward. Latitude is how far north (or south) of the Equator you are. Longitude is how far you are located west (or east) of the Prime Meridien (which runs through Greenwich, England).

I don't know how they do it now, but conventionally latitude and longitude were both expressed in degrees, minutes, and seconds. Thus the latitude of Philadelphia is 39 degrees, 57 minutes, 9 seconds North. The longitude is 75 degrees, 9 minutes, 55 seconds West. (I spelled everything out because I don't know how to get the degree symbol.)

You can see this in action in Close Encounters, where the UFO guys are getting this stream of numbers, and somebody recognizes them as latitude and longitude coordinates (which turn out to be for Devil's Tower).

[serious crayons]

I'm afraid you have that backward. Latitude is how far north (or south) of the Equator you are. Longitude is how far you are located west (or east) of the Prime Meridien (which runs through Greenwich, England).

Oops, yeah. I keep thinking the rule is that "longitude" is the longer one and therefore runs is north-south. Whereas the mnemonic I should be using is Jimmy Buffett!

 

[CellarDweller]

You can see this in action in Close Encounters, where the UFO guys are getting this stream of numbers, and somebody recognizes them as latitude and longitude coordinates (which turn out to be for Devil's Tower).

and with this post, you made me want to find the scene from the movie where tones are being used for communication.  Found it on YouTube.

[Front-Ranger]

I was letting the cat out and I noticed a certain duskiness in the garden today. I went out and looked up at the sky. It was a boneless blue--no clouds. But the sun wasn't yet in the sky at 7 am. 

[serious crayons]

Weird. Not to quibble, but this site says it's supposed to rise at 6:20 a.m. today. I'm hoping this is a sign the sun is rethinking its planned route this year and will just stick with the 14-hour days throughout the winter.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/denver?month=8

[Jeff Wrangler]

Weird. Not to quibble, but this site says it's supposed to rise at 6:20 a.m. today. I'm hoping this is a sign the sun is rethinking its planned route this year and will just stick with the 14-hour days throughout the winter.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/denver?month=8

That's the time my almanac gives for sunrise today in these parts: 6:20 a.m.

[Front-Ranger]

Well, I didn't think we were going to be scientific about it  . I meant the sun wasn't in the sky...I couldn't see it. It may have risen above the horizon, but it's got to travel farther before I can see it at my house.

I'm reminded of that lovely song "Ticket to the Moon": "but I'd rather see the sunrise in your eyes."

[serious crayons]

Well, I didn't think we were going to be scientific about it  . I meant the sun wasn't in the sky...I couldn't see it. It may have risen above the horizon, but it's got to travel farther before I can see it at my house.

I don't mean to draw out this debate, but I'm curious about a couple of things. 1) What gets in the way of your seeing the sun at sunrise -- trees, houses, or ... ? and 2) Does Denver not get good sunsets because the mountains block it or are they far enough away that they aren't really a factor? Obviously I've been in Denver for many sunsets but don't remember noticing or being disappointed. In fact, I do vaguely remember once arriving in the evening to a bright orange western sky. But sunsets are super important to me, partly because I am rarely up for sunrises (and now also because my apartment faces west so I see sunrises only reflecting off buildings and trees). I do distinctly remember that one thing I disliked about living in NYC for a year was skyscraper sunsets -- losing the sun and walking in shadows much earlier than you would without all those buildings in the way.


 

[Jeff Wrangler]

I don't mean to draw out this debate, but I'm curious about a couple of things. 1) What gets in the way of your seeing the sun at sunrise -- trees, houses, or ... ? and 2) Does Denver not get good sunsets because the mountains block it or are they far enough away that they aren't really a factor? Obviously I've been in Denver for many sunsets but don't remember noticing or being disappointed. In fact, I do vaguely remember once arriving in the evening to a bright orange western sky. But sunsets are super important to me, partly because I am rarely up for sunrises (and now also because my apartment faces west so I see sunrises only reflecting off buildings and trees). I do distinctly remember that one thing I disliked about living in NYC for a year was skyscraper sunsets -- losing the sun and walking in shadows much earlier than you would without all those buildings in the way.

For nearly 20 years, when the weather was clear, I could see the most beautiful sunsets in October from my condo. I would check the time of sunset in my almanac, and many times I've stood by my dining room windows and actually watched the sun sink below the horizon. Then just after sunset the sky overhead could be a very deep navy blue in color. As you moved your eyes from directly above down to the horizon, the sky went through all the colors of the rainbow down to a very deep red just at the horizon.

Now the new high rise next door blocks my view to the west-southwest, where the sun sets in October.