Author Topic: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)  (Read 14909 times)

Offline nakymaton

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fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« on: November 03, 2006, 12:06:16 am »
Jack and Ennis set off sparks in each other.

Story:

...the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity... (dozy embrace scene)

His shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them. (reunion... and there's also a storm brewing in the background, which, ummmm... comes to a climax when it starts hailing on the Motel Siesta. ;D Weather-as-sexual-tension metaphor?)

...the lightning storm that killed 42 sheep...

And in the movie, there are a number of thunder storms, aren't there? Not just the one where Ennis is washing the coffee pot and looking up the mountain toward Jack? There's thunder with the hail storm that scatters the sheep, I think.

At the reunion, Ennis's lighter-flicking kind of takes the place of lightning-flickering to build the tension.

(Don't ask me how the electric carving knife fits into this. That knife scares me.)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 12:17:32 am by nakymaton »
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2006, 12:07:27 pm »
I like the scene where Jack is sleeping up on the mountain, a blue heeler beside him, and lightning/thunder is seen/heard off in the distance. That pesky director/editor almost cuts off the lightning/thunder in his haste to move forward the story, as he does so often!!
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2006, 12:16:37 pm »
(Don't ask me how the electric carving knife fits into this. That knife scares me.)

Well, you know my theory about that, right? But it's less about Jack and Ennis than it is about Alma and Monroe.  :laugh:

I have always been curious about the storm in the story's reunion scene. It seemed somehow portentious, but of what? Sexual tension makes sense. Though there's something a little ominous about it, too.

(OT, I am also curious about the sound of the phone ringing in the next room at the motel, if anyone has any ideas about that.)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2006, 12:24:11 pm »
All of the weather theatrics add to the drama of the story, as well as liven up the setting and convey a feeling of Wyoming-ness. But in addition, I think it is a custom of Western writers and artists to treat the weather as another character in the story. They use it to echo, underscore, or complement the action/mood/feelings. Ang Lee also said that since he didn't use narration to tell what the characters were feeling, he had to do it in other ways, through setting, props, atmospheric effects, etc.

I love the way the general wetness of the story/movie works with the electrical currents. There's a technical term for this in my line of work called "electrowinning." You run an electrical charge through a solution, and there is a chemical reaction which results in you "winning" whatever you were seeking to gain: gold or another type of metal. What a metaphor!!
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Offline Mikaela

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2006, 12:30:20 pm »
Quote
(OT, I am also curious about the sound of the phone ringing in the next room at the motel, if anyone has any ideas about that.)

To me that is one quite intense mood-setter. Hearing a phone ringing like that, there's an anxious tension building: Something's gotta give. (Ie. Waiting for someone to pick up, or for the phone to stop ringing). Something's not right. (Why is it ringing in an apparently empty room? Where is the person who was supposed to be there? What's the urgency?)

Also, it represents the outside world with all its demands  and obligations encroaching on J&E's private little bubble of togetherness, reminding them of the rest of the world's continued existence - the harsh persistent sound from outside cutting into their space, and disturbing it, calling them "back to earth".

But to me definitely mostly an effective mood-setter, more than an integral and specific plot element. It goes hand-in-hand, btw, with the banging of the unsecured door in the next room. Another annoying, encroaching sound. No peace and quiet for Jack and Ennis.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 12:35:22 pm by Mikaela »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2006, 12:54:26 pm »
To me that is one quite intense mood-setter. Hearing a phone ringing like that, there's an anxious tension building: Something's gotta give. (Ie. Waiting for someone to pick up, or for the phone to stop ringing). Something's not right. (Why is it ringing in an apparently empty room? Where is the person who was supposed to be there? What's the urgency?)

Also, it represents the outside world with all its demands  and obligations encroaching on J&E's private little bubble of togetherness, reminding them of the rest of the world's continued existence - the harsh persistent sound from outside cutting into their space, and disturbing it, calling them "back to earth".

Thanks, Mikaela. That all makes sense. I guess it's possible to find ways to see the ringing as foreshadowing something: Ennis' phone call to Lureen, the unanswered phone hinting that someone eventually won't be there (maybe Jack or even, because it coincides with Ennis calling Alma, maybe Alma after the divorce), a toll ringing for Ennis and Jack ... whatever.

But I like your explanation (an annoying and even disturbing reminder of the outside world). And the fact that it carries vague hints of SOME kind of foreshadowing, perhaps of all those things to some degree, just makes it more complex and interesting without chaining it to any specific symbolism.

I'm learning so much about writing (and reading) by picking this story apart!

 :)

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2006, 01:45:41 pm »
I always thought "Lightning Flat" was an intriguing name for Jack's home, and didn't understand her choice of it until I thought about how it connotes vulnerability:  a flat, shelterless plane in which you're in constant danger of lightning strikes.

There's the obvious symbolism of lightning as the wrath of God/Zeus and consequence of sin.  Short karma and vulnerability to consequence followed Jack everywhere:  his humiliation by Aguirre, rejection by Jimbo, and being blamed for sheep dying — from lightning strikes.

And Jack's demise fit his origin:  either "struck down" from above for his sin, or in an accidental "sudden burst" of the tire.

(And it's fitting that the Twist home featured a prominent cross and pentagram — symbols used for protection and appeasement.)

Offline nakymaton

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2006, 01:50:11 pm »
Lightning at night also creates a sudden burst of illumination: bright light for a moment that makes it difficult to see in the darkness that follows.

That summer on the mountain might have felt a bit like a flash of lightning. Especially for Ennis.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2006, 03:48:27 pm »
Mel, that post simply makes it a necessity for me to add the first verse of Shelley's "Mutability" to this thread:


The flower that smiles to-day
To-morrow dies;
All that we wish to stay
Tempts and then flies.
What is this world's delight?
Lightning that mocks the night,
Brief even as bright.




On that background it seems altogether fitting that J&E's reunion occurs accompagnied by lightning.........

Offline Meryl

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2006, 04:56:54 pm »
There's an awful lot to say about the metaphors Proulx uses for the reunion and the motel scene that follows it.   I always get a chill at "Behind her in the room lightning lit the window like a white sheet waving and the baby cried."   Revelation, danger, foreshadowing, fear, a cry for help, surrender--everything is implied in that one sentence.

"A few handfuls of hail rattled against the window followed by rain and slippery wind banging the unsecured door of the next room then and all through the night."  If Alma symbolizes water, the hail is her impotent rage, followed by tears.  The wind represents unchecked desire, the banging door the sexual act.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 05:36:05 pm by Meryl »
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2006, 04:59:52 pm »
More electricity:
Ennis refuses to apply for a job at the power company. In the story, it is only shortly mentioned. But in the movie, it is more broad.

From screenplay:

Alma reads the want ads

Alma: Ennis...they got a openin' over at the power company. Might be good pay.

Ennis: Clumsy as I am, I'd probably get electrocuted.


First, I don't think of Ennis as clumsy and doubt he sees himself like that. Probably only an excuse for not applying there and avoiding a discussion right then; in this scene he is hurriedly preparing for a trip (the one when he forgets the tackle box and Alma reminds him).

Second, on a symbolic level, Ennis doesn't want to get too near to sources of great amounts (high voltage) of electricity. But he sure likes the little sparks/electrical current snapping  between him and Jack.

Just like he wants to be with Jack, but not too near, meaning not permanent. And for the same reason: he is afraid to die from it. Being electrocuted while working for the power company respectively being beaten to death for living with Jack.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2006, 05:18:18 pm »
I'll admit I've sometimes thought the lightning on reunion night was a bit of overkill on Ms. Proulx's part. (I'm sorry, please don't hit me!  :o  )  As in, somewhat unneccessary to get the point across concerning the impact of the reunion on the 3 people directly  involved. I've been thinking it's making a huge emotional impression anyway, without the use of the somewhat tried-and-true lightning/weather methapor. 

But reading your post Meryl, I've now seen the light, as it were. Seriously, it gave me a better understanding and appreciation of that specific weather imagery. Thank you.  :)

It just amazes me no end that there's still something new to discover here!

 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 05:20:01 pm by Mikaela »

Offline Meryl

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2006, 05:38:02 pm »
Wow, thanks Mika, coming from you, that makes my day!  8)
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Offline Dal

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2006, 06:18:06 pm »
oh yeah -- the brilliant charge of thier coupling, and the radio batteries that go dead.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2006, 06:38:23 pm »
Oh yes!

Responding to some things upthread:

Quote
I like the scene where Jack is sleeping up on the mountain, a blue heeler beside him, and lightning/thunder is seen/heard off in the distance.

I love that! Because the film also shows us exactly where that distant bad weather *is* - Ennis is getting the full benefit of it, whiling away his time in the tent whittling that little horse. That lightning in the distance seems a direct link between scenes of Ennis and Jack - an instance of Lee picking up on Proulx's methaphors?

BTW, why do you think he didn't include the lightning storm during the film reunion? Would it have seemed like visual overkill? Taken the impact away from the force of the acting? Made for too much thunder and lightning throughout the film?  ???


Quote
(about the electric carving knife) Well, you know my theory about that, right?

Well, I don't. Please enlighten me?  :)

Offline Dal

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2006, 08:05:01 pm »
Jack and Ennis set off sparks in each other.

Story:

...the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity... (dozy embrace scene)

His shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them. (reunion... and there's also a storm brewing in the background, which, ummmm... comes to a climax when it starts hailing on the Motel Siesta. ;D Weather-as-sexual-tension metaphor?)

...the lightning storm that killed 42 sheep...

And in the movie, there are a number of thunder storms, aren't there? Not just the one where Ennis is washing the coffee pot and looking up the mountain toward Jack? There's thunder with the hail storm that scatters the sheep, I think.

At the reunion, Ennis's lighter-flicking kind of takes the place of lightning-flickering to build the tension.
Electricity, and charge, lightning, hail, AND love?  Forces of nature, same metaphor for AL as AP I think.  They're not always good for us either, are they?  but we don't exactly have much choice.

Offline Dal

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2006, 08:11:57 pm »
there's also a storm brewing in the background, which, ummmm... comes to a climax when it starts hailing on the Motel Siesta.
Yah -- with a slippery wind banging a door throughout the night!!  :D 

Offline serious crayons

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2006, 12:54:00 am »
Quote
(about the electric carving knife) Well, you know my theory about that, right?

Well, I don't. Please enlighten me?  :)

Sure! I've mentioned this before, and I can imagine other people rolling their eyes and thinking, "There she goes again ..." but I have always seen the electric carving knife as a vibrator. And it represents what Monroe is to Alma: a pale substitute for the "real thing."

It's something about the buzzing sound, I guess. I think this occurred to me the very first time I saw the movie! But, as others have pointed out, a carving knife would not make a good vibrator. Don't try this at home! :laugh:

OK, here's one. In light of (sorry) what we've discussed about lightning so far, what do you make of Jack's first summer on the mountain, with the 42 sheep killed by lightning? And how might that fit with the idea that Jack, having already spent a summer on the mountain, is possibly not a virgin?


Offline LauraGigs

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2006, 12:56:34 am »
Yeah, but didn't Jack spend his first summer on Brokeback alone?

And even if he were the most consciencious sheperd ever, would that have prevented the lightning strikes?

(Not to say that Jack was a virgin. I'm just saying he had the fall, winter and spring to get action too — Brokeback wasn't the only place an undie-wringer-outer like Jack could get some . . .)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 12:58:22 am by LauraGigs »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2006, 01:14:12 am »
Yeah, but didn't Jack spend his first summer on Brokeback alone?

Well, I don't know. Has that been estabilshed? I thought it was never specified one way or another, but wouldn't it be kind of dangerous for one sheep herder to go up there alone?

Quote
And even if he were the most consciencious sheperd ever, would that have prevented the lightning strikes?

No, of course not! I don't expect Jack to control the weather!  ;)

Quote
(Not to say that Jack was a virgin. I'm just saying he had the fall, winter and spring to get action too — Brokeback wasn't the only place an undie-wringer-outer like Jack could get some . . .)

Absolutely. I'm just going by the idea that when Annie Proulx and the movie make a point of saying it's Jack's second summer on Brokeback and Ennis' first, they're talking about more than sheep herdin.  ;)


Offline Mikaela

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2006, 02:59:28 pm »
This may be a far stretch, but I'll include it anyway...

 I've never really noticed the Newome signpost in the film (too busy looking at Jack, I suppose  ::) ) but in this picture it looks like an electric sign, it strikes me with the company name and motto it in a way represents Jack: It harnesses electricity, probably presenting a muted-down light at night - just like Jack has been reined in and muted down by becoming part of the Newsome family and company.


Offline LauraGigs

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2006, 05:24:26 pm »
The outer round shapes on the sign look like machine cogs, but the inner shapes look like spurs. Used to rein in horses. Horses can represent sexuality and the human spirit (they roam free in the summer on Brokeback but are confined for the rest of the film — most notably in the back of Ennis' truck in Jack's final scene).

Of course Jack would rather be on one of those horses than demo-ing that damn combine . . .

Quote
I'm just going by the idea that when Annie Proulx and the movie make a point of saying it's Jack's second summer on Brokeback and Ennis' first, they're talking about more than sheep herdin.

Literary metaphor. Oh.  I knew that . . . [slinks off]
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 05:26:16 pm by LauraGigs »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2006, 10:59:18 pm »
This is a fabulous topic for a thread!

So, why is the storm during the motel scene omitted in the film?  There are some key indications of the arrival of wind (along with Jack) right as he gets out of his truck outside of Ennis's apartment, but there doesn't seem to be the same sense of drama to the weather here as in the story.  The storm symbol in the book may be slightly overdetermined... as Mikaela notes... but I think a lot of the symbols in the film (and probably the book too) are overdetermined.  But!  For me, somehow they still work and are very evocative for me.  Things like the large flame in the background between Jack and Ennis in TS2 might be a little bit much as far as symbols go, but I still think it works as an interesting symbol (and one that effectively stirs emotions) regardless.  I like the storm in the motel scene myself... and it does become even more interesing if Alma gets thrown into the interpretation of the storm.  Water in a violent rage... and then like Meryl said, it's also a clear indication of the sexual excitement between the two men.  It's interesting that a symbol can function simultaneously as two things (if not more than two things).

So, what's electricity's relationship to fire?  I think we're getting somewhere with the Newsome sign and the idea of Alma wanting Ennis to work for the electric company.  Also, is there a distinction between natural electricity (lightning vs. electricity harnessed by people)?
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2006, 01:00:18 am »
So, why is the storm during the motel scene omitted in the film?

I think there may be a couple reasons.

One is that the focus in the motel scene is very tight on Jack and Ennis. It isn't just that there's no storm. There are no clothes scattered around the room, no belt buckle, no telephone ringing in the other room... it's a brief moment where only Jack and Ennis exist. And I think we need to see them like that, intimate and separate from the world, because we don't get to see them like that again, except for that very brief glimpse in the tent during the last camping trip. It gives us something to regret, something to keep wanting to come back to.

(And before Jack arrives, I think AL made the right choice in focusing very much on Ennis, on letting Heath's acting carry the tension at that moment. Or shifting the tension to the flicking lighter, rather than to lightning.)

Quote
So, what's electricity's relationship to fire?

*raises eyebrows* Um, Electricity can start a fire? Lightning strikes can burn down an entire forest; bad wiring can burn down a house?

In terms of connecting the symbols directly in the movie, I don't know, other than electricity suggesting danger whereas a campfire seems warmer and homier to me.

(BTW, this made me think of the fire ecology of the lodgepole pines, in the ecosystem on Brokeback. Lodgepole pine cones only open when they are heated by a forest fire. So lodgepole forests tend to grow and mature, and then get wiped out completely by massive wildfires... caused in nature by lightning strikes. And then the cones open and germinate, and only then, after the destruction, are the new trees born. Kind of like a plant version of the phoenix. Don't know if that does anything for the symbolism, except that it's such a dramatic cycle.)

Quote
Also, is there a distinction between natural electricity (lightning vs. electricity harnessed by people)?

Well, as with the water, we've got the lightning on Brokeback, compared to the tame electricity in their domestic lives. But toasters and televisions just don't pack the thrill of lightning, you know? (I mean... ok, well, I have sat and watched a toaster before, but it isn't the same as sitting and watching a lightning storm.)

Electric carving knives don't quite do it in the thrill department, either. ;) Poor Alma. She craves electricity in her life, but doesn't realize that there's more to the world than appliances.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2006, 07:58:18 am »

But toasters and televisions just don't pack the thrill of lightning, you know?

I've nothing insightful to add at the moment, but wanted to let you know that this absolutely cracked me up. Toasters don't pack the thrill of lightning - ROTFL  :laugh:


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2006, 09:13:41 pm »
 :laugh:

You're right!  BBM has certainly led us to some unique observations.  The toaster vs. lightning topic may be right up there with buckets and coffeepots.
 :)
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2006, 03:50:52 am »
Quote
From Mel:
Well, as with the water, we've got the lightning on Brokeback, compared to the tame electricity in their domestic lives.

This is not only true for water and electricity, but also on the larger scale, the underlying "bigger picture" (in lack of a better phrase). It's another way from Ang Lee to show us that:

Love is a force of nature - the four elements: fire, water, earth, air.

All those elements are tamed, a poor copy, in their life apart from each other, but at their full strength when they're together:

  • Fire: Lightning storms vs. electricity
  • Water: Streams vs. water tap (faucet?)
  • Air: Storm vs. fans
  • Earth: beatutiful, wide landscapes vs. narrow houses, apartments and trailers
.

Just like their love is a force of nature: strong and uncontrollable ("this thing grabs onto us") for each other, but a poor copy, non-passionate, for their wifes.

Everything keeps coming back to the tagline. To me, the tagline first sounded like simplifiying things, almost like a cliché to promote the movie - but Ang Lee illustrated that's it's not.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 04:06:17 am by Penthesilea »

Offline Mikaela

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2006, 07:59:19 am »
Love is a force of nature - the four elements: fire, water, earth, air.

All those elements are tamed, a poor copy, in their life apart from each other, but at their full strength when they're together:

  • Fire: Lightning storms vs. electricity
  • Water: Streams vs. water tap (faucet?)
  • Air: Storm vs. fans
  • Earth: beatutiful, wide landscapes vs. narrow houses, apartments and trailers
Just like their love is a force of nature: strong and uncontrollable ("this thing grabs onto us") for each other, but a poor copy, non-passionate, for their wifes.

Everything keeps coming back to the tagline. 
I loved this so much I had to repeat it. All I can say to it is: Yes, yes, yes!  :)


Katherine, thanks for explaining the electric carving knife analogy. Makes sense to me.


When it comes to the lack of lightning in the reunion scene, I completely agree with Mel about how the focus in the motel scene is very tight on Jack and Ennis. The focus on just the two of them, the outside world not visible, not making any appearance except through their words, is so effective that I hardly miss a brief opening shot from a couple of metres' distance to show the room in disarray and the guys on the bed. (Who am I kidding? I WOULD have liked to see this.  ::) ) But that scene remains one of my absolute favourites in the film. It's so unbelievably intimate. Anyway, I haven't been wondering about the outside world being near to non-existent in that scene - but I have wondered about that in the preceeding kitchen scene with Ennis, Jack and Alma as the guys take off for their motel night. That would have been the place where that distant lightning like a white sheet might have made an effectful appearance. Then again, it might have made for too obvious visual symbolism, not the ambiguous kind favoured by Ang Lee.

I think in that kitchen scene, the film's focus is mainly on Alma and her reaction, much more so than in the story - and hence the lightning outside, as well as the electric currents snapping between Ennis and Jack has been removed altogether or tamped down in the film - to leave the focus on Alma's reaction. (Compared to the description in the book, I do think especially JG is underplaying the visible impact on Jack, so much so that it has to be deliberate from director and actor both.)


There's another part of the short story where lightning makes an impression - this time by not  being present. It's during Jack and Ennis's last "fishing trip" together. Never the optimist, Ennis keeps looking out for clouds and stormy weather - and eventually it comes: "A bar of darkness driving wind before it and small flakes".  But conspicuously, for once in this lightning-riddled story there is no lightning. And in the very same paragraph the batteries on the transistor radio die. Hence, electricity, both in its wild untamed and domesticated versions, are absent from the scene. And though the story tells us that even so the brilliant charge between Ennis and Jack still is there, it also says that the charge is by then darkened.... by the sense of time fllying. Though the sparks still fly, what they have left by then is just a camp fire, those sparks flying up with their truths and lies..... A camp fire that will die down soon enough. 
The entire description of those last days, their last night together, has such a strong sense of foreboding, of light and heat dying and disappearing because the force, the power that feeds them is muted and dying down. Cold darkness is about to descend as a consequence.  :'(  It almost takes my breath away how much imagery and symbolism are packed into those few simple paragraphs.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 08:02:11 am by Mikaela »

Offline nakymaton

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Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2006, 10:17:08 am »

    • Earth: beatutiful, wide landscapes vs. narrow houses, apartments and trailers

    Also, the rocky ground of the high ridges, the rocks in the creek, the rocks around the fire, vs the asphalt that Ennis spreads with Timmy. (Like the power company job that Ennis doesn't take, that's another job that involves the tame version of something from the mountain. Perhaps that's as much of a turn-off as Timmy's plumber's butt. ;) )

    (Nice list of comparisons, Chrissi. I agree.)

    The Nature metaphor could be easily overplayed, you know. There are all sorts of overly pastoral, idealized depictions of Nature as Good out there... and BBM (both story and movie) manages to use Nature as a metaphor without overdoing it.

    Very impressive.
    Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

    Offline Meryl

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #29 on: November 10, 2006, 12:40:50 pm »
    Penthesilea, I had never thought of "Love Is a Force of Nature" as being more than a marketing slogan til you pointed out how well it applies to the film.  Thanks!

    Then again, it might have made for too obvious visual symbolism, not the ambiguous kind favoured by Ang Lee.

    It may be an oversimplification, but this sounds like the most logical reason for the absence of lightning in that scene to me, too.

    Quote
    There's another part of the short story where lightning makes an impression - this time by not  being present. It's during Jack and Ennis's last "fishing trip" together. Never the optimist, Ennis keeps looking out for clouds and stormy weather - and eventually it comes: "A bar of darkness driving wind before it and small flakes".  But conspicuously, for once in this lightning-riddled story there is no lightning. And in the very same paragraph the batteries on the transistor radio die. Hence, electricity, both in its wild untamed and domesticated versions, are absent from the scene. And though the story tells us that even so the brilliant charge between Ennis and Jack still is there, it also says that the charge is by then darkened.... by the sense of time fllying. Though the sparks still fly, what they have left by then is just a camp fire, those sparks flying up with their truths and lies..... A camp fire that will die down soon enough.  The entire description of those last days, their last night together, has such a strong sense of foreboding, of light and heat dying and disappearing because the force, the power that feeds them is muted and dying down. Cold darkness is about to descend as a consequence.   It almost takes my breath away how much imagery and symbolism are packed into those few simple paragraphs.

    Very nicely observed!  8)
    Ich bin ein Brokie...

    Offline nakymaton

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #30 on: November 10, 2006, 01:22:36 pm »
    I want to add a "me too!" to Meryl's comments on Mikaela's observations about the last camping scene.


    And in the very same paragraph the batteries on the transistor radio die. Hence, electricity, both in its wild untamed and domesticated versions, are absent from the scene.

    Yeah. I would almost put on my "practical Mel" hat and point out that, although snowstorms are common in the mountains in May, they rarely are accompanied by lightning. (Thunderstorms are a kind of late summer/early fall phenomenon -- an everyday occurrence in July and August, but not in spring.) But the dying batteries -- and Jack, in particular, fiddling with the radio -- really suggest that the darkening of the electricity is part of the extended metaphor, as well.

    The reappearance of electricity in the flashback ("humming like faint electricity"? I don't have the story with me) points out the contrast, as well.

    And in the movie, the transition to the flashback starts with a shot of the glowing coals. Fire still burning... and then we seen the dozy embrace. So fire is there visually in the movie, as well.

    **

    Another movie observation. What part of Jack's truck does Ennis fix, before the goodbye scene at the end of the summer? Starter, sparkplugs? Doesn't the car need a spark to start? So Jack needs Ennis to help provide the spark to start the truck... but it's tame electricity, and they keep it under control, and say goodbye without touching again?
    Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

    Offline Penthesilea

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #31 on: November 10, 2006, 03:57:27 pm »
    The reappearance of electricity in the flashback ("humming like faint electricity"? I don't have the story with me) points out the contrast, as well.

    You were very close. It reads: ...and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electicity,

    I like this comparison. (Hearing and) feeling a humming is very similar to faint electric 'humming', like a fridge, for example. You know what I mean? Fridges sometimes hum. And sometimes you can feel and hear it near power lines. A very fitting picture.


    Quote
    Another movie observation. What part of Jack's truck does Ennis fix, before the goodbye scene at the end of the summer? Starter, sparkplugs? Doesn't the car need a spark to start? So Jack needs Ennis to help provide the spark to start the truck... but it's tame electricity, and they keep it under control, and say goodbye without touching again?

    In the movie we can't see what Ennis is fiddling with, but the screenplay says it's the carburetor. Cars need a spark not only to start, but also to run. It comes from the ignition pulgs (spark plugs). The spark from the spark plugs causes a little "explosion" of the fuel/oxygen mixture.  This process pushes down the pistons. The carburetor rules the amount of fuel which is injected.


    Another reference to electricity: Francine is a little live wire.

    « Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 04:06:08 pm by Penthesilea »

    Offline Mikaela

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #32 on: November 13, 2006, 05:55:21 pm »
    Quote
    From Mel
    I would almost put on my "practical Mel" hat and point out that, although snowstorms are common in the mountains in May, they rarely are accompanied by lightning. (Thunderstorms are a kind of late summer/early fall phenomenon -- an everyday occurrence in July and August, but not in spring.)

    Sure enough. But the realism doesn't preclude the symbolism or hinted-at meaning..... I guess the short story is full of similar instances.

    There's a similarity in the description of the weather that seems less than coincidental (though no doubt realistic): At the reunion, "by noon the clouds had pushed up out of the west rolling a little sultry air before them", followed by the thunderstorm. While just before J&E's last night together, "there were the clouds Ennis had expected, a grey racer out of the west, a bar of darkness driving wind before it and small flakes". But no thunderstorm then, just the "friggin' cold" and wet spring snow.

    Considering and comparing the weather description for those two events, it seems as if they're indicating that Ennis subconsciously (?)  is entirely aware Jack is losing the spark during their last meeting, and is anxiously waiting for it to reemerge from the embers. Ennis's looking out for the clouds, expecting the clouds and what they bring, becomes less about him worrying over the future, more about him looking and longing for the Jack of their previous time together, anticipating Jack's proximity to bring back the storm of feelings, the lightning from the reunion. When the clouds eventually do come (and with them, Jack's signature wind  8) ), and the "brilliant charge" is verified to still be there, is when the batteries die between Jack's hands. And though the clouds has brought wind, there's no lightning, only the "friggin' cold". Jack is losing the spark. I'd say there's some food here for the "quit" side of the eternal "Quit/no quit" debate.


    I love how both those two weather descriptions bring the air and the wind into play: "rolling a little sultry air before them"  and  "a bar of darkness driving wind before it". Definitely food for the "Jack and the wind" discussion thread as well!  :)

    « Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 05:59:25 pm by Mikaela »

    Offline nakymaton

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #33 on: November 13, 2006, 06:24:30 pm »
    Sure enough. But the realism doesn't preclude the symbolism or hinted-at meaning..... I guess the short story is full of similar instances.

    I think the time of year may have been chosen, in part, for the weather it would imply, and the symbolism inherent in the weather descriptions. May = cold + threat of snow + lack of lightning sparks -- all symbolic of threats to the relationship. (After all, it was snow that drove them down from the mountain the first time. Snow's a bad omen in both the story and the movie.)

    Edit: Also, about the quit/no quit debate... I think if we're talking about the imagery in the story, we have to keep in mind that the story reveals information from Ennis's point of view. It isn't told as flashbacks, exactly, but the details of the relationship are revealed out of sequence in many cases. So the foreboding imagery may say more about how Ennis remembers that last camping trip than about Jack's state of mind at the time. Is the charge of their coupling darkened by the sense of "never enough time" because the spark of their relationship was about to go out, or because Ennis is looking back and feeling the loss of all that time?
    « Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 07:21:14 pm by nakymaton »
    Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

    Offline nakymaton

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #34 on: November 27, 2006, 03:54:50 pm »
    Hey all --

    kallyn, who just joined after seeing BBM on HBO (yay!), asked about the significance of the single functioning headlight on Ennis's truck after the "Jack Nasty" Thanksgiving scene. I said something vague about electricity and sparks, but really, I have no clue. Anybody else got any suggestions?
    Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

    Offline Meryl

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #35 on: November 27, 2006, 07:43:01 pm »
    Hey all --

    kallyn, who just joined after seeing BBM on HBO (yay!), asked about the significance of the single functioning headlight on Ennis's truck after the "Jack Nasty" Thanksgiving scene. I said something vague about electricity and sparks, but really, I have no clue. Anybody else got any suggestions?

    Good question.  On the surface, I'd say it's meant to show Ennis's poverty--he hasn't got the money to get the headlight repaired and so makes do with one.  After the abundance seen at Monroe's, it's an effective contrast.

    Symbolically, possibly it shows a man who is alone.  His other half, whether it be Alma or Jack, is not in his day-to-day life.

    Or maybe it symbolizes his being half-blind with rage, thus prefiguring the fight with the truck driver.
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    Offline kallyn

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #36 on: November 28, 2006, 01:34:46 am »
    Woo, I come over here to post and find that suspiciously my ears are burning.   :laugh:  Anyway, howdy all.  :)  I noticed that broken headlight today like it was a freakin' banner and I thought that it had to mean something.  The idea that Ennis is poor is good, but we already know from other things that Ennis is poor so that would seem like a somewhat redundant point.

    I think my favorite idea so far is that one light is out because he is incomplete without Jack.

    Offline Lynne

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #37 on: November 28, 2006, 02:21:02 am »
    Woo, I come over here to post and find that suspiciously my ears are burning.   :laugh:  Anyway, howdy all.  :)  I noticed that broken headlight today like it was a freakin' banner and I thought that it had to mean something.  The idea that Ennis is poor is good, but we already know from other things that Ennis is poor so that would seem like a somewhat redundant point.

    I think my favorite idea so far is that one light is out because he is incomplete without Jack.

    Welcome to BetterMost, kallyn! And thank you very much for posting.

    I noticed the headlight on a fairly late viewing - the earlier ones were for me trying to figure out what had acually just happened to me :)!  My interpretation of the busted headlamp is very similar to others offered here:

    On one level, the broken headlight is an indication of Ennis' poverty and long work schedule.  He was paying child support; he was not able to keep is truck in good (even safe?) repair, because both money and time were short.

    I completely agree that Ennis is incomplete without Jack - their two halves make a whole.  We can quote many lines from the short story as evidence.  That night, though, Ennis is not 'firing on all cylinders' -- I know, mixing metaphors :) -- he lets upset/anger/fear overcome his steely self-control, and he vents all that on the hapless guy on the street who drives by and honks, justifiably.

    Another thought comes to mind, though...I think we talk about being drunk or angry as half-blind - referring to the eyes.  Ennis was a drinker and was headed for the bar after the confrontration w/Alma probably to get half drunk b/c he was half-blind with rage - with only one headlight.

    I tend to think that Alma's confronting Ennis about Jack and the Jack Nasty conversation constitute a 'sucker punch' that is equivalent to the punch Ennis delivers to Jack before their first parting.  By this interpretation, is it stretching matters to think that the busted up headlight is a reminder/parallel to the 'sucker punch' Ennis gave Jake' long ago upon Brokeback?  Ennis leaves Jack wounded due to who he is, much in the same way Alma wounds Ennis by her recognition of who he is.

    Thanks for listenin...
    -Lynne
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    Offline Front-Ranger

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #38 on: December 15, 2006, 05:21:53 pm »
    There were some electrical references during the reunion scene that we haven't mentioned yet:

    Quote
    "You gotta kid?" said Jack. His shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them.

    "Two little girls," said Ennis. "Alma Jr. and Francine. Love em to pieces." Alma's mouth twitched.

    ...From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood, Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.


    Jack leaves Alma with a "please to meet you" while trembling like a run-out horse, and then Alma asks Ennis for cigarettes, the only time anybody does in the movie. He directs her to his blue shirt in the bedroom, where there is a pack in his pocket, instead of bringing her back smokes from the store.

    Aside from the electrical and fire references, it is interesting that Ennis says he loves his girls "to pieces" because it's his love for Jack that is going to break the family in pieces. Alma seems to know this, as her mouth twitches as one would in response to touching fire or being shocked.

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    Offline nakymaton

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #39 on: December 30, 2006, 07:15:59 pm »
    There's a fuse box barely visible in the entryway of the Riverton apartment at a couple points during the reunion scene. Electricity, controlled and in a box -- compare with the electricity of the reunion kiss.
    Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

    Offline Lynne

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #40 on: January 27, 2007, 02:56:01 am »
    bump
    "Laß sein. Laß sein."

    Offline Front-Ranger

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #41 on: January 27, 2007, 11:08:00 am »
    Coming soon to a site near you, an account of my visit this month to Lightning Flat. And here's a little teaser:

    Quote
    The terrain we were passing through was rugged but beautiful in a stark way, like a rumpled quilt tossed over the bedrock, studded with rocks that must have rained down on the earth in some ancient volcanic blast. We often saw the silhouette of a ravaged twisted tree against the sky, obviously the victim of a lightning strike. Pressed between the heaving earth and the capricious sky, my ears began to hum and the hairs on my forearms stood on end. Would we make our visit to Lightning Flat safely, or would we incur the vengeance of Nature? I was energized by the idea and strangely devoid of fear, choosing to throw all my confidence to Destiny.
    "chewing gum and duct tape"

    Offline Front-Ranger

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    Re: fffffffzzzzzzzzzzzzzap! (lightning and electricity references)
    « Reply #42 on: December 09, 2009, 12:38:04 pm »
    I was thinking about this topic during Thanksgiving, when the old electric turkey slicer came out of the closet, hehe. Ang seemed to be saying that when you electrify a natural process, watch out for fireworks! That's what happened when the electric knife replaced Jack's paring knife that he used to peel potatoes while Ennis was stripping. Fireworks also happened when Jack's beat-with-a-stick in the stream method of laundering (and Alma's washboarding) was replaced with the electric washers and dryers in the laundromat.
    "chewing gum and duct tape"