Saw the Hand Holdin'.

[serious crayons]

Looks like "who grabs whose hand" may wind up joining "sorry/s'alright" in the Unsolved Mysteries file. For the record, my vote is with Ennis grabbing Jack's hand, partly because that seems more romantic to me and partly because that's just what it looks like to me. As for Sheyne's view from her post a month ago that it's not Jack's hand he's grabbing, well, I haven't seen anything to indicate that but, believe me, I will keep a sharp eye out next time I watch.

Regarding the deepened intimacy, starboardlight recenly started a whole nother thread, still active I think, discussing this same subject. And the clear slick question? Well, I'm no expert, so maybe JAD or someone else can fill me in, but couldn't the time from when they both jolted up in the tent and Ennis realized Jack's intentions and responded to them, couldn't that have been enough time for that, uh, process to work?

[Aussie Chris]

Regarding the deepened intimacy, starboardlight recenly started a whole nother thread, still active I think, discussing this same subject. And the clear slick question? Well, I'm no expert, so maybe JAD or someone else can fill me in, but couldn't the time from when they both jolted up in the tent and Ennis realized Jack's intentions and responded to them, couldn't that have been enough time for that, uh, process to work?

Yup, that's what I was thinking Katherine, especially if we consider that they were "warming up" to each other all night.  Is it me, or is it getting a little hot in here? 

Oh and by the way, I'll be sure to check out starboardlight's other thread, ta!

[serious crayons]

Yup, that's what I was thinking Katherine, especially if we consider that they were "warming up" to each other all night.  Is it me, or is it getting a little hot in here? 

No, not just you, Chris, it definitely IS getting hot in here.

[Brown Eyes]

Tell you what... I think they grab each other's hand.  It's a mutual/ reciprocal action.  At the very least... if Ennis isn't reaching for Jack's hand specifically, then he goes so far as to put his hand in a position where it's available to be grabbed.   And, towards the beginning of the *action* Jack is reaching back already with his right hand (the hand closest to the viewer).  Is he already reaching to hold Ennis's hand?

[starboardlight]

Well, I'm no expert, so maybe JAD or someone else can fill me in, but couldn't the time from when they both jolted up in the tent and Ennis realized Jack's intentions and responded to them, couldn't that have been enough time for that, uh, process to work?

well, there's no evidence in the film or the story for or against what I'm about to suggest, but it could have worked. While Ennis is lying there, perhaps in semi-sleep semi-conscious state, his side is touching Jack's. He would have been already aroused, and just lying there with an erection but not knowing what to do about it. I don't know about you, but when I suddenly find myself lying side by side with someone I've been eyeing for weeks, sleep doesn't come so easily. I imagine that they were both at least half-awake, if not fully awake at that point. And especially if you're half-awake, the body chemistry just does it's thing without inhibition. I think that even before Jack grabbed his hands, Ennis was already producing "clear slick".

[Aussie Chris]

According to what she wrote, I would say, as a man who has camped out with men, that Jack knew that Ennis already had an erection before he seized Ennis's LEFT hand. Jack might have already felt the clear slick on the head of Ennis's penis.

I really don't agree with this Joe, that Ennis had an erection before Jack took his hand, or even if he did, that Jack would know about it.  I think you put a lot of emphasise on the deepened intimacy, and assume that it means that there was some kind of foreplay going on prior to Jack taking Ennis' hand.  I still see quite a bit of spontaneity in this scene (both in the book and the film).  Just IMHO of course.

[Aussie Chris]

But, knowing the character of Annie Proulx's original Ennis Del Mar and observing what the Movie Jack did, which was rather awkward, in reaching behind himself and across Ennis's body to grab Ennis's left hand, I would say that the AP Ennis would not have had sex with Jack at all, he would have given Jack an attitude adjustment by slugging him with his fist instead.

I guess so.

While we both speak English, you don't speak American English; but, I don't speak Australian English either.

What a load of rubbish.  Are you trying to tell me "deepened intimacy" means something special to americans?  Spare me please.

[serious crayons]

What a load of rubbish.  Are you trying to tell me "deepened intimacy" means something special to americans?  Spare me please.

Yes. "Deepened intimacy" is Americanese for reaching back and grabbing somebody's left hand and placing it on your genitals. What, you've never heard that one, Chris?

[Rayn]

"...he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect cock. Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire, got to his knees, unbuckled his belt, shoved his pants down, hauled Jack onto all fours and..."      Had sex with him!   I think the above is the odd thing about the first tent scene and about Ennis himself.  First he "wanted none of it" then he pulls his jeans off hauls Jack into position and enters him!  It's odd and almost funny when you think of the quick switch he made.  Anyone got anything to say that can explain that more?  I think it's a show of how conflicted Ennis really is... His head says no, but his cock say yes, his fears say no, but in the end his heart said yes... 

Rayn

[Front-Ranger]

What Proulx meant by "he would have none of it" was that Ennis went "full throttle" not halfway whenever he did something, so when Jack provided the opportunity to "sin" he would not go only halfway with his hand but instead put all of himself into it.